Lakers should encourage Lonzo to change shot now ?
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
He had better form as a freshman in high school.


Ya, when your arms get longer and you get taller, your form changes. As well as when you get stronger around that age
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
troy wrote:
Not understanding all this talk about changing Lonzo's shot.

Lonzo is a NBA professional and 2nd overall draft pick. He's already proven to be skilled. Changing your shot is something you ask of a high school player, not an NBA player.

Shawn Marion and Kevin Martin come to my mind as players that were successful offensively, but had horrible shot mechanics.

Lonzo just needs to get confident in his overall game. The shooting will fall into place.


NBA players change and our asked to change their shot all the time. Hell LBJ changed his shot this year! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryklukqkSHY

Obviously Ball's shot will take more time to change but it's nothing that time can't fix but it isn't just his shooting stroke its all of his mechanics.

You don't have the worst FG% in the league without having numerous problems from mental to mechanics

He's still a ballar when it comes passing and defense though
but can we all agree. if by tomorrow I could magically fix his mechanics. we still know he would be blowing layups and missing tear drops and missing wide open jumpers Right? we all know to shoot this poorly from someone that has never been known for poor shooting is 100% mental right?

the changing of his shot would help increase his 3pt percentage and ft% by a few points. its not going to take him from 20% to 48%. the distance between 20% and 40% from 3pt is not mechanical. thats mental with this guy.


A lot of it is mental no doubt but I still think most of his problems are mechanical in nature. From the way he shoots the ball and takes free throws to his lay ups and tear drops; he does't know the proper way to shoot or score.

know one who has prefect mechanics (shooting, lay ups, teardrops) would miss this much

and honestly I hope his problems are mechanical and not mental. It takes much more work to fix someone's mind than it does to change the way a person takes a shot.


Well, one of the issues is how much time and how space the mechanics of his shot consume. It wasn't an issue in college, but it is in the NBA.

So, is knowing your mechanics makes your shot suck an issue of mechanics or mental? The FT % shows it's gotten into his head, but would fixing the mechanics allow him to let go of the mental block? I don't know. I'm of the opinion that if he's going to rework his shot he should get too it. Even if he doesn't bust it out in-game right now.
if it aint broke dont .... but obviously now its completely broken. so like you said, you have nothing lose at this point.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject:

Last night was evident in the difference between Lonzo's shot and Steph shot, mechanically speaking you can see that Lonzo's arc trajectory is inconsistent, if you notice that when he shoots he never quite shoots it the same, he will either release sooner from the hitch or later from the hitch, causing the release apex to throw off his rhythm and timing of fluid shot mechanics, to me its almost like a small inconsistent pause where there should be free flowing uniform motion...
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject:

LakerFan1977 wrote:
Last night was evident in the difference between Lonzo's shot and Steph shot, mechanically speaking you can see that Lonzo's arc trajectory is inconsistent, if you notice that when he shoots he never quite shoots it the same, he will either release sooner from the hitch or later from the hitch, causing the release apex to throw off his rhythm and timing of fluid shot mechanics, to me its almost like a small inconsistent pause where there should be free flowing uniform motion...
you do realize most nba players shots are not consistent like steph, klays or even durants right? you do realize you're comparing a rookie that was never known for shooting/scoring to a legendary shooter?

compare his shot to someone that is not a shooting legend.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
LakerFan1977 wrote:
Last night was evident in the difference between Lonzo's shot and Steph shot, mechanically speaking you can see that Lonzo's arc trajectory is inconsistent, if you notice that when he shoots he never quite shoots it the same, he will either release sooner from the hitch or later from the hitch, causing the release apex to throw off his rhythm and timing of fluid shot mechanics, to me its almost like a small inconsistent pause where there should be free flowing uniform motion...
you do realize most nba players shots are not consistent like steph, klays or even durants right? you do realize you're comparing a rookie that was never known for shooting/scoring to a legendary shooter?

compare his shot to someone that is not a shooting legend.


Why? Who did Magic compare himself to? Oscar Robertson
would did Shaq compare himself to? Wilt Chamberlain
who did Kobe compare himself to? Michael Jordan

The only way to objectively analyze your game is to compare it to the standard of excellence, the only way to gauge where you are and where they are is to compare, does Lonzo have to copy Steph's mechanics?....no, but does he have to understand why his FG % is the worst and his opponents is the best?.....yes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject:

Here's a thought.

Wouldn't it be entirely possible for Lonzo to be a good or great nba shooter despite that unconventional shot form?

Look at Walter Payton, the man had the most fundamentally flawed Running form you can think of and (imo) is a top3 alltime great RB.

Many athletes have excelled despite having unconventional natures to their game.



With Lonzo it's very interesting. Like a lightswitch goes on and you automatically can tell he's the player like he was in UCLA. Confident, in control and draining buckets effortlessly. We've definitely seen many instances of that and it looks GREAT! Bad shooting form and all.

There's no reason to think that he won't start honing in on whatever that mental switch is and get more consistant as time goes on.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject:

ChickenBeckerman wrote:


With Lonzo it's very interesting. Like a lightswitch goes on and you automatically can tell he's the player like he was in UCLA. Confident, in control and draining buckets effortlessly. We've definitely seen many instances of that and it looks GREAT! Bad shooting form and all.


The guy is shooting 31% from the field and 25% from the 3-point line so it can't be that many instances.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject:

LakerFan1977 wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
LakerFan1977 wrote:
Last night was evident in the difference between Lonzo's shot and Steph shot, mechanically speaking you can see that Lonzo's arc trajectory is inconsistent, if you notice that when he shoots he never quite shoots it the same, he will either release sooner from the hitch or later from the hitch, causing the release apex to throw off his rhythm and timing of fluid shot mechanics, to me its almost like a small inconsistent pause where there should be free flowing uniform motion...
you do realize most nba players shots are not consistent like steph, klays or even durants right? you do realize you're comparing a rookie that was never known for shooting/scoring to a legendary shooter?

compare his shot to someone that is not a shooting legend.


Why? Who did Magic compare himself to? Oscar Robertson
would did Shaq compare himself to? Wilt Chamberlain
who did Kobe compare himself to? Michael Jordan

The only way to objectively analyze your game is to compare it to the standard of excellence, the only way to gauge where you are and where they are is to compare, does Lonzo have to copy Steph's mechanics?....no, but does he have to understand why his FG % is the worst and his opponents is the best?.....yes


I'd say Shaq compared himself to Wilt and Kobe to MJ because their games are similar. Ball's game isn't really like Curry.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:


With Lonzo it's very interesting. Like a lightswitch goes on and you automatically can tell he's the player like he was in UCLA. Confident, in control and draining buckets effortlessly. We've definitely seen many instances of that and it looks GREAT! Bad shooting form and all.


The guy is shooting 31% from the field and 25% from the 3-point line so it can't be that many instances.



Actually there have been many. Definitely he's had more bad games and misses than good games and makes but there have been enough flashes throughout these first 20+ games to foresee that it could just be a matter of time for him to become the player we are hoping for.

It really may not be a shooting mechanics issue at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo Ball vs Devin Booker
shooting mechanics:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO9D8JATzyw

This video points out why his problems starts with his fundamentals.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGrYutQY-V8

This guy shows what Lonzo is doing wrong and how he can make tweaks to his shot to help
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject:

ChickenBeckerman wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:


With Lonzo it's very interesting. Like a lightswitch goes on and you automatically can tell he's the player like he was in UCLA. Confident, in control and draining buckets effortlessly. We've definitely seen many instances of that and it looks GREAT! Bad shooting form and all.


The guy is shooting 31% from the field and 25% from the 3-point line so it can't be that many instances.



Actually there have been many. Definitely he's had more bad games and misses than good games and makes but there have been enough flashes throughout these first 20+ games to foresee that it could just be a matter of time for him to become the player we are hoping for.

It really may not be a shooting mechanics issue at all.


I think it's definitely a mechanics issue. But part of that is the realization that the way he shoots gives him less margin of error in the faster, smarter NBA than it did in college, so he may be rushing or worrying about his shot even when he's wide open. You can say that's mental, but it's also directly connected to his flawed mechanics.

There are simply a lot of flaws to Ball's game that are being exposed at the NBA level. He's a guy who is super easy to figure out and defend. Even if he gets comfortable taking open shots, his shooting mechanics are going to limit his upside. Right now, he's looking for a multi-year project rather than the out-of-the-box difference-maker many hoped he'd be.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject:

He is missing wide open shots. He is missing layups. Sure his shot is ugly, but it went in in college so I think that it is 95% mental with him at this time.

He is playing tight. He will get through this as he gains more experience.

That said, I am totally not opposed to re-working his shot in the offseason. That thing is ugly.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:


With Lonzo it's very interesting. Like a lightswitch goes on and you automatically can tell he's the player like he was in UCLA. Confident, in control and draining buckets effortlessly. We've definitely seen many instances of that and it looks GREAT! Bad shooting form and all.


The guy is shooting 31% from the field and 25% from the 3-point line so it can't be that many instances.



Actually there have been many. Definitely he's had more bad games and misses than good games and makes but there have been enough flashes throughout these first 20+ games to foresee that it could just be a matter of time for him to become the player we are hoping for.

It really may not be a shooting mechanics issue at all.


I think it's definitely a mechanics issue. But part of that is the realization that the way he shoots gives him less margin of error in the faster, smarter NBA than it did in college, so he may be rushing or worrying about his shot even when he's wide open. You can say that's mental, but it's also directly connected to his flawed mechanics.

There are simply a lot of flaws to Ball's game that are being exposed at the NBA level. He's a guy who is super easy to figure out and defend. Even if he gets comfortable taking open shots, his shooting mechanics are going to limit his upside. Right now, he's looking for a multi-year project rather than the out-of-the-box difference-maker many hoped he'd be.


Yep. Still need to give him more time to adjust, but the possibility of these problems shouldn't be a surprise. especially not to the FO. What makes it tougher for Lonzo is that if his outside shot isn't falling he isn't particularly strong at attacking the basket.

He's probably thinking about so many things, I think trying to retool his shot during his rookie season is going to make things worse rather than better. Makes more sense to me to have him come off bench. He should be able to get his shot off a little more easily and that should help his confidence.

As for the he-shot-well-in-college rationale, I started thinking along those lines, but then happened to look at Adam Morrison's predraft scouting report and now I'm going to look for other sources of comfort. Unfortunately, there are probably quite a few really good college shooters than didn't make it in the NBA>
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject:

Zo needs to come off the Bench and here's why, with Clarkson starting the Lakers would be better:

Turnovers will go down,
Scoring will go up,
Zo can build up his confidence playing against the other teams bench players
His scoring and assists will go up
He can get more minutes with Kuz, who he meshed awesomely with in Summer league play.

Here's the cons:
.
.
.
.
.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject:

The problem with Lonzo is that he was raised by an over bearing Dad that told his kids only to listen to him and nobody else. I'm sure LaVar is telling him, "Don't change for nobody".

Painful to have such a personality around our organization.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
Zo needs to come off the Bench and here's why, with Clarkson starting the Lakers would be better:

Turnovers will go down,
Scoring will go up,
Zo can build up his confidence playing against the other teams bench players
His scoring and assists will go up
He can get more minutes with Kuz, who he meshed awesomely with in Summer league play.

Here's the cons:
.
.
.
.
.


I disagree with you. I think for every pro of swapping out Clarkson for Ball there is a con. Defense would be worse. We'd be focusing more on players who are probably not going to be an important part of the future, while minimizing those who we want to build around.

To me this all comes down to accepting that we are a bad team with a lot of young players who we hope will get better. With that attitude you don't obsess over little tweaks that probably won't matter much anyway and just ride out the ugliness. The goal would be how we look by the end of the season; not how we look next week or next month.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject:

I'd change it now and start with feet and body posture and incrementally work to the the load up, positioning and.release.


Don't baby him, remember?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Lonzo Ball vs Devin Booker
shooting mechanics:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO9D8JATzyw

This video points out why his problems starts with his fundamentals.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGrYutQY-V8

This guy shows what Lonzo is doing wrong and how he can make tweaks to his shot to help


Maybe as GT gets more access he can tell us if Lonzo is working on any of this in shooting drills.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:20 am    Post subject:

Yes. Itís fugly and drags down everything about his game.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

I'm all for changing his shot mechanical now asap. What's the worst that can happen? That his shooting percentage gets even lower?

As soon as you realize there's a mistake, better to correct it immediately than build more flawed muscle memory.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:


With Lonzo it's very interesting. Like a lightswitch goes on and you automatically can tell he's the player like he was in UCLA. Confident, in control and draining buckets effortlessly. We've definitely seen many instances of that and it looks GREAT! Bad shooting form and all.


The guy is shooting 31% from the field and 25% from the 3-point line so it can't be that many instances.



Actually there have been many. Definitely he's had more bad games and misses than good games and makes but there have been enough flashes throughout these first 20+ games to foresee that it could just be a matter of time for him to become the player we are hoping for. Jay Humphries always shot off the wrong foot and was a very consistant shooter, Michael Adams

It really may not be a shooting mechanics issue at all.


I think it's definitely a mechanics issue. But part of that is the realization that the way he shoots gives him less margin of error in the faster, smarter NBA than it did in college, so he may be rushing or worrying about his shot even when he's wide open. You can say that's mental, but it's also directly connected to his flawed mechanics.

There are simply a lot of flaws to Ball's game that are being exposed at the NBA level. He's a guy who is super easy to figure out and defend. Even if he gets comfortable taking open shots, his shooting mechanics are going to limit his upside. Right now, he's looking for a multi-year project rather than the out-of-the-box difference-maker many hoped he'd be.


Well again, there have been many instances of Athletes having bad mecanics issues and go against the fundamentals and have still excelled. Walter Payton holding a ball out in his hand in front of him should have spelled disaster, yet he excelled despite it and became an all time great.
Jay Humphries had a terrible shot off the wrong foot yet he was a very consistanat scorer. Michael Adams had a very flawed shot form and along with short size should've had him getting blocked all day yet he was an All Star, had a great career and once averaged 26.6ppg.

It's not entirely impossible for Lonzo to excel with flawed mecanics as well. He's getting tons of open shots, it's not like the defenders are swatting him left & right. He's getting his shots, just not making em for whatever reason. Most likely mental but lets all remember, he's been dealing with a bad calf/ankle issues since the preseason. The last couple of games the arc on his shoot is looking much better, I suspect as his injury heals up more we'll start to see those shots dropping in the bucket.
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