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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | Ty Joe. That sounds like our best bet IMO.
I'm also starting to worry that all of this might be moot if we don't land someone who can fit well next to Lonzo, like a Collison type of player. That should be a priority for us for sure. |
I don't see enough room in the budget to
* Sign Cousins & Paul George
* Keep Randle
* Move Deng via stretch waiver rather than draft picks
* Bring in a Collinson type of guard who is getting paid $10 million this season and next
If the two incoming stars won't give discounts from their mid tier Max salaries, then roster depth is stripped to make it work with
* Randle cap hold
* Deng stretched
* Clarkson traded with $0 in returning salary
2018-19
$30,300,000......Cousins (1)
$30,300,000......Paul George (2)
$12,447,727......Julius Randle (3) - Cap Hold
$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$831,311...........Min Salary (7)
$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
$7,400,000........Luol Deng - stretch waived
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Josh Hart
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
$0.....................Thomas Bryant
_____________
$100,344,513 |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting, ty Bard. Well I'll have to do some more thinking then, because based on all that I'm hearing about Lonzo we really need a Collison type starting next to him.
I'm not sure if having PG + Cousins offsets that enough.
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Stretching him means losing Randle. |
Caveat here: We have no guarantee that we will keep Randle. A Deng trade just means that we don't have to renounce him and that we get a chance to match his offer sheet. The salary cap rules and consequences relating to matching an offer sheet are complicated, and I will leave that topic to someone like Larry Coon. Suffice it to say that another team could cause us all sorts of headaches by offering Randle a large offer sheet. |
If it doesn’t fit you must acquit.
If the offer is too large to fit their cap plans, Randle walks for nothing.
People screaming at Luke to play Randle more should probably be screaming at Magic instead. It makes a whole lotta sense that Magic has told Walton to suppress Randle’s minutes in order to increase the odds of preventing the situation you so clearly outlined. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Like I said.
I think the ideal would be pursuing one max free agent, re-signing Randle, and then taking care of the rest of the space you have to strengthen positions.
We'll have enough for a max this off-season. It's the extra "30M" thats an 'issue' to clear.
Here's the thing, I don't think we're getting one max guy, let alone two, as we aren't a real option considering how far along Lonzo and Ingram still have to come in order for us to truly contend.
I think our only bet would be DeMarcus Cousins if it didn't work out in New Orleans. But that's about it.
Anyway, there's no real point in trading anyone. We have no guarantee a max guy is coming here and I'd rather not be the team that cleared up 60M in cap and landed nobody and then has to watch all the young talent they got rid of become stars on other teams while they gotta wait 3-4 more years in the tank to become even close to relevant again or even sniff 28 victories once more.
Also if Magic was telling Luke "Randle may have a break out year...best hold him back" then both he and Luke are more idiotic than I could have ever imagined.
You tell me what's an easier sell to a free agent.
"You see this 23 year old kid? He just had a breakout season, 18/12/4 and he's on his way to becoming an all-star if not close to one already, he's also our team's best defender. You'll be joining him, as well as Lonzo and Ingram whom are ready to have a breakout year too."
Or
"Well..we got a lot of young kids here about 3-4 years away. But you can save us right?"
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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Last edited by MJST on Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | Interesting, ty Bard. Well I'll have to do some more thinking then, because based on all that I'm hearing about Lonzo we really need a Collison type starting next to him.
I'm not sure if having PG + Cousins offsets that enough. |
If you get James, the need for Collison lessens substantially.
Acquiring James checks off a whole lot of this team’s needs, to be honest. |
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unleasHell
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: |
* Deng stretched
$831,311...........Min Salary (7)
$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
$7,400,000........Luol Deng - stretch waived
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Josh Hart
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
$0.....................Thomas Bryant
_____________
$100,344,513 |
It kills me to have to give up all those players simply because of Jimbo...!
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“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | Ty Joe. That sounds like our best bet IMO.
I'm also starting to worry that all of this might be moot if we don't land someone who can fit well next to Lonzo, like a Collison type of player. That should be a priority for us for sure. |
2018-19
$30,300,000......Cousins (1)
$30,300,000......Paul George (2)
$12,447,727......Julius Randle (3) - Cap Hold
$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$831,311...........Min Salary (7)
$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Josh Hart
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
$0.....................Thomas Bryant
_____________
$100,344,513 |
With Kuzma exceeding all expectations, I seriously think the Lakers should dump Lonzo with Deng.
You basically could keep Ingram, Kuzma, Hart and get very close to 3 max slots. You might even be able to squeeze in another rookie contract (Dunn) and have enough space for 3 max players. |
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3baller
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2017
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | 0% chance Kuzma is traded to dump Deng. |
Wonder what would happen if we trade Kuz and end up not signing any of the top FA's.
Riot? |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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If LeBron and Cousins (or Paul George) aren't giving discounts, then the numbers become really really tight.
2018-19
$35,350,000......LeBron (1)
$30,300,000......Cousins or Paul George (2)
$12,447,727......Julius Randle (3) - Cap Hold
$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$831,311...........Min Salary (7)
$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
$7,400,000........Luol Deng - Stretch Waived
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Josh Hart
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
$0.....................Thomas Bryant
_____________
$105,394,513
Something similar to the above is $4 million over a $101 million salary cap. |
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SGVL1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 3baller wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | 0% chance Kuzma is traded to dump Deng. |
Wonder what would happen if we trade Kuz and end up not signing any of the top FA's.
Riot? |
I think people care less and less man. I went to a game last year (granted it was LAST YEAR) in March. And I’ve never been to staples where I saw less laker gear in the stands. People weren’t really paying attention to the game either , it was, weird. .. We’ve been bad so long now I seriously think people wouldn’t care much or wouldn’t care as much as we think they would |
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PHILosophize
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think our odds of signing LeBron are infinitesimal at best. Paul George I do think we have a good shot at, and I'm wondering if it might be best to just sign him + acquire a PG to go alongside Lonzo + keep Julius + stretch Deng + trade JC for some shooters.
Lonzo
Collison
PG
Kooz
Randle
Hart
Bellineli
BI
Babbit
Zubat
Maybe even have money to spare after that too, IDK.
Do you guys think a roster like that - keeping in mind we are retaining our draft picks - is preferable to PG + Cousins?
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | I think our odds of signing LeBron are infinitesimal at best. Paul George I do think we have a good shot at, and I'm wondering if it might be best to just sign him + acquire a PG to go alongside Lonzo + keep Julius + stretch Deng + trade JC for some shooters.
Lonzo
Collison
PG
Kooz
Randle
Hart
Bellineli
BI
Babbit
Zubat
Maybe even have money to spare after that too, IDK.
Do you guys think a roster like that - keeping in mind we are retaining our draft picks - is preferable to PG + Cousins? |
Collison is a baller, but he belongs to Indiana. They like him as much as you do Phil, so he’d be hard to trade for.
Also, at first glance there’d be no need to stretch Deng if you’re only signing George, just ride out his final two years.
I absolutely love the idea of one max guy coming though.
If it’s one, cool.
If it’s two, I hope it’s James and George.
And if it’s three, Ball or Ingram would have to go.
Perfect cool with just George though, but George Hill is probably a more feasible option than is Darren Collison. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: |
* Deng stretched
$831,311...........Min Salary (7)
$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
$7,400,000........Luol Deng - stretch waived
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Josh Hart
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
$0.....................Thomas Bryant
_____________
$100,344,513 |
It kills me to have to give up all those players simply because of Jimbo...! |
Actually it because of Magic, Jim didn’t have plans to give anyone up.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuzzkontrol wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: |
* Deng stretched
$831,311...........Min Salary (7)
$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
$7,400,000........Luol Deng - stretch waived
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Josh Hart
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
$0.....................Thomas Bryant
_____________
$100,344,513 |
It kills me to have to give up all those players simply because of Jimbo...! |
Actually it because of Magic, Jim didn’t have plans to give anyone up. |
Ya Jim only gave 2 of the worst contracts in the league |
Good ol’ Lucky Sperm. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Stretching him means losing Randle. |
Caveat here: We have no guarantee that we will keep Randle. A Deng trade just means that we don't have to renounce him and that we get a chance to match his offer sheet. The salary cap rules and consequences relating to matching an offer sheet are complicated, and I will leave that topic to someone like Larry Coon. Suffice it to say that another team could cause us all sorts of headaches by offering Randle a large offer sheet. |
If it doesn’t fit you must acquit.
If the offer is too large to fit their cap plans, Randle walks for nothing.
People screaming at Luke to play Randle more should probably be screaming at Magic instead. It makes a whole lotta sense that Magic has told Walton to suppress Randle’s minutes in order to increase the odds of preventing the situation you so clearly outlined. |
Again, if Magic thinks that other teams won’t know what Randle can do because he plays him less minutes then he is a certifiable idiot.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | I think our odds of signing LeBron are infinitesimal at best. Paul George I do think we have a good shot at, and I'm wondering if it might be best to just sign him + acquire a PG to go alongside Lonzo + keep Julius + stretch Deng + trade JC for some shooters.
Lonzo
Collison
PG
Kooz
Randle
Hart
Bellineli
BI
Babbit
Zubat
Maybe even have money to spare after that too, IDK.
Do you guys think a roster like that - keeping in mind we are retaining our draft picks - is preferable to PG + Cousins? |
Collison is a baller, but he belongs to Indiana. They like him as much as you do Phil, so he’d be hard to trade for.
Also, at first glance there’d be no need to stretch Deng if you’re only signing George, just ride out his final two years.
I absolutely love the idea of one max guy coming though.
If it’s one, cool.
If it’s two, I hope it’s James and George.
And if it’s three, Ball or Ingram would have to go.
Perfect cool with just George though, but George Hill is probably a more feasible option than is Darren Collison. |
Deng could be an ending contract tradable at the 2020 trade deadline.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ^Just in time for Anthony Davis hitting free agency ... |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | I think our odds of signing LeBron are infinitesimal at best. Paul George I do think we have a good shot at, and I'm wondering if it might be best to just sign him + acquire a PG to go alongside Lonzo + keep Julius + stretch Deng + trade JC for some shooters.
Lonzo
Collison
PG
Kooz
Randle
Hart
Bellineli
BI
Babbit
Zubat
Maybe even have money to spare after that too, IDK.
Do you guys think a roster like that - keeping in mind we are retaining our draft picks - is preferable to PG + Cousins? |
Well doing that kind of invalidates their summer moves. |
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h2omike
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2811
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd be happy with even one max free agent |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Stretching him means losing Randle. |
Caveat here: We have no guarantee that we will keep Randle. A Deng trade just means that we don't have to renounce him and that we get a chance to match his offer sheet. The salary cap rules and consequences relating to matching an offer sheet are complicated, and I will leave that topic to someone like Larry Coon. Suffice it to say that another team could cause us all sorts of headaches by offering Randle a large offer sheet. |
If it doesn’t fit you must acquit.
If the offer is too large to fit their cap plans, Randle walks for nothing. |
Exactly. This is relevant when we consider future scenarios in which we keep Randle. I think some people see the $12M cap hold and assume that this is what it would cost to keep him. Heck, someone could offer him a max contract. I'm not predicting that, but teams do surprising things in the offseason. |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Stretching him means losing Randle. |
Caveat here: We have no guarantee that we will keep Randle. A Deng trade just means that we don't have to renounce him and that we get a chance to match his offer sheet. The salary cap rules and consequences relating to matching an offer sheet are complicated, and I will leave that topic to someone like Larry Coon. Suffice it to say that another team could cause us all sorts of headaches by offering Randle a large offer sheet. |
If it doesn’t fit you must acquit.
If the offer is too large to fit their cap plans, Randle walks for nothing. |
Exactly. This is relevant when we consider future scenarios in which we keep Randle. I think some people see the $12M cap hold and assume that this is what it would cost to keep him. Heck, someone could offer him a max contract. I'm not predicting that, but teams do surprising things in the offseason. |
It could happen...but I think $12-$13 Million annually is probably the ceiling of what he could expect next summer....I will not be shocked if he gets no offers more than the MLE. |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Stretching him means losing Randle. |
Caveat here: We have no guarantee that we will keep Randle. A Deng trade just means that we don't have to renounce him and that we get a chance to match his offer sheet. The salary cap rules and consequences relating to matching an offer sheet are complicated, and I will leave that topic to someone like Larry Coon. Suffice it to say that another team could cause us all sorts of headaches by offering Randle a large offer sheet. |
If it doesn’t fit you must acquit.
If the offer is too large to fit their cap plans, Randle walks for nothing.
People screaming at Luke to play Randle more should probably be screaming at Magic instead. It makes a whole lotta sense that Magic has told Walton to suppress Randle’s minutes in order to increase the odds of preventing the situation you so clearly outlined. |
Again, if Magic thinks that other teams won’t know what Randle can do because he plays him less minutes then he is a certifiable idiot. |
So Walton MUST be the “certifiable idiot”, right?
If you’re saying Magic isn’t responsible for Randle’s minutes, then you are implicitly stating that Coach Walton is responsible.
The decision to not turn Randle “lose” with more minutes is a decision that was made by some body. The question is, who?
I think it was Magic, and I actually respect the move the more I think about it.
On a competitive team you could pigeon hole Randle into a 22 minute backup role because the guy in front of him would have proven themselves indispensable. Salary suppression can work like this, but that clearly ain’t Lopez.
You can really tell that management expected a bigger role from Lopez, enough of a bigger role to more earnestly justify Randle playing 20 minutes.
But when “your guy” is Lopez and when you’re losing, and when the last player called by Lawrence Tanter shoots stunted, at some point, Randle has to get more minutes ...
Abort mission ... a little. |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Stretching him means losing Randle. |
Caveat here: We have no guarantee that we will keep Randle. A Deng trade just means that we don't have to renounce him and that we get a chance to match his offer sheet. The salary cap rules and consequences relating to matching an offer sheet are complicated, and I will leave that topic to someone like Larry Coon. Suffice it to say that another team could cause us all sorts of headaches by offering Randle a large offer sheet. |
If it doesn’t fit you must acquit.
If the offer is too large to fit their cap plans, Randle walks for nothing. |
Exactly. This is relevant when we consider future scenarios in which we keep Randle. I think some people see the $12M cap hold and assume that this is what it would cost to keep him. Heck, someone could offer him a max contract. I'm not predicting that, but teams do surprising things in the offseason. |
It could happen...but I think $12-$13 Million annually is probably the ceiling of what he could expect next summer....I will not be shocked if he gets no offers more than the MLE. |
Not nearly as emphatically, but that’s where I see Randle as well (still worried about Dallas though).
Simply tell Randle and all teams that they will match any offer.
I think from there, I agree with you. With the exception of Dallas, I can’t think of a team willing to go significantly north of 15 mill per.
Randle, unfortunately, has Cuban written all over him, and he’s from the Dallas area.
How high of an offer will Cuban make? That’s the real question for me.
I’m hoping for Randle resigned for four years at 50 million, ‘cuz I’m a Laker fan, but I’m prepared to give him four years 60 million if need be and would consider as high as 17 mill a year if he finishes up the rest of the year really proving his defensive consistency. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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governator
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Posts: 25076
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max? |
Isn't mathematically the answer is yes? |
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