OFFICIAL LARRY NANCE JR THREAD
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av3773
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject:

Nance would look a lot better if we had some consistent and reliable scoring from the other players...since we don't I agree we should start Kuz ahead of Nance...personally I think Randle should start ahead of Lopez...but hey who knows
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
defense wrote:
Randle RPM .41____BPM -1.0__PER 17.2
Kuzma RPM -2.64__BPM -1.5__PER 15.7
Nance. RPM .48____BPM 2.4__PER 18.0

The worst PF on the team leads in everything, even the stats that favor stat stuffers/scorers. These stats must be useless...

Also, Monta Ellis and Davis Lee who played for the warriors used to put up big numbers and lose a whole lot, think about it. I'm not saying Larry is better than Randle or Kuzma, but I am saying you guys really need to stop using him as cop out. He has more than earned his 24 minutes a game. Direct your irrational comments somewhere else. I hear Luke has room.



Our best lineup according to the advanced stats is with Randle and Kuz in the front court with BI, Ball, and KCP.


Yup.

Only stat fans care about:

Lakes record with Kuzma starting: 5-6
Lakes record with Nance starting: 3-9

All these BPM, RPM, DRP, PMS, whatever, all these numbers mean NOTHING if Lakers are just LOSING.

Apparently something is still wrong on the other side of these stats. Nance may have higher blah-blah-A stat over Randle/Kuzma, but he has other blah-blah-B stat that is much lower than theirs which is why it hasn't translated to winning.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
defense wrote:
Randle RPM .41____BPM -1.0__PER 17.2
Kuzma RPM -2.64__BPM -1.5__PER 15.7
Nance. RPM .48____BPM 2.4__PER 18.0

The worst PF on the team leads in everything, even the stats that favor stat stuffers/scorers. These stats must be useless...

Also, Monta Ellis and Davis Lee who played for the warriors used to put up big numbers and lose a whole lot, think about it. I'm not saying Larry is better than Randle or Kuzma, but I am saying you guys really need to stop using him as cop out. He has more than earned his 24 minutes a game. Direct your irrational comments somewhere else. I hear Luke has room.



Our best lineup according to the advanced stats is with Randle and Kuz in the front court with BI, Ball, and KCP.


Then your complaint should probably be directed towards the coaching staff. I'll repeat myself. Nance is more than holding his own in the starting line up. Match ups, minutes and substitution patterns are a coaching issue. People come in here acting like Nance is somehow holding the team back. He is not the problem.
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defense
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
defense wrote:
Randle RPM .41____BPM -1.0__PER 17.2
Kuzma RPM -2.64__BPM -1.5__PER 15.7
Nance. RPM .48____BPM 2.4__PER 18.0

The worst PF on the team leads in everything, even the stats that favor stat stuffers/scorers. These stats must be useless...

Also, Monta Ellis and Davis Lee who played for the warriors used to put up big numbers and lose a whole lot, think about it. I'm not saying Larry is better than Randle or Kuzma, but I am saying you guys really need to stop using him as cop out. He has more than earned his 24 minutes a game. Direct your irrational comments somewhere else. I hear Luke has room.



Our best lineup according to the advanced stats is with Randle and Kuz in the front court with BI, Ball, and KCP.


Yup.

Only stat fans care about:

Lakes record with Kuzma starting: 5-6
Lakes record with Nance starting: 3-9

All these BPM, RPM, DRP, PMS, whatever, all these numbers mean NOTHING if Lakers are just LOSING.

Apparently something is still wrong on the other side of these stats. Nance may have higher blah-blah-A stat over Randle/Kuzma, but he has other blah-blah-B stat that is much lower than theirs which is why it hasn't translated to winning.


So disregarding SoS/match ups/home vs road, you think Kuzma/Randle starting vs not starting is the reason for that record difference?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Larry Nance starting over Kyle Kuzma is reminiscent of the 2009 Lakers where Luke Walton originally started over Trevor Ariza.

Eventually, Luke realized that Ariza was a better fit with the starters and openly gave his spot up.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Its a nice problem to have finding minutes. Some rag on LNJ, but he was our best player for the first half of last game.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Clark Kent wrote:
Larry Nance starting over Kyle Kuzma is reminiscent of the 2009 Lakers where Luke Walton originally started over Trevor Ariza.

Eventually, Luke realized that Ariza was a better fit with the starters and openly gave his spot up.



Except that was a championship team with vets.
This team is not that. It's more about learning imo.

But I definitely like this comparison over the crazy Brady/Bledsoe comparison.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
defense wrote:
Randle RPM .41____BPM -1.0__PER 17.2
Kuzma RPM -2.64__BPM -1.5__PER 15.7
Nance. RPM .48____BPM 2.4__PER 18.0

The worst PF on the team leads in everything, even the stats that favor stat stuffers/scorers. These stats must be useless...

Also, Monta Ellis and Davis Lee who played for the warriors used to put up big numbers and lose a whole lot, think about it. I'm not saying Larry is better than Randle or Kuzma, but I am saying you guys really need to stop using him as cop out. He has more than earned his 24 minutes a game. Direct your irrational comments somewhere else. I hear Luke has room.



Our best lineup according to the advanced stats is with Randle and Kuz in the front court with BI, Ball, and KCP.


Then your complaint should probably be directed towards the coaching staff. I'll repeat myself. Nance is more than holding his own in the starting line up. Match ups, minutes and substitution patterns are a coaching issue. People come in here acting like Nance is somehow holding the team back. He is not the problem.


My complaint IS with the coaching staff not Larry. I like Larry. He's a damn good role player but shouldnt be the starter and he shouldn't be played with lineups that lack spacing/scoring threats.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
My complaint IS with the coaching staff not Larry. I like Larry. He's a damn good role player but shouldnt be the starter and he shouldn't be played with lineups that lack spacing/scoring threats.


You just described the entire rotation by modern standards.

I like that we finally seem to be running some lob plays for him.

I think another aspect of him starting is that he's almost like another coach on the floor directing players where they need to go. Lonzo's just not vocal enough, and Ingram just wants to iso.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers certainly had an easier schedule when Nance was out, only playing a couple of good teams during that stretch. To somewhat counter that though the Lakers were at home for most of Nance's games, but more importantly I don't think anyone would argue that Larry isn't a solid role player on the team and not having him as opposed to having him also has to be considered as it meant we saw lineups with Brewer and Ingram at power forward or Bogut at center. There's no easy way to weigh all of that.

I don't think the Lakers recent struggles can all be attributed to Nance coming back. But I also don't think he should be getting more minutes than Kuzma or Randle.

I would warn about advanced stats that they often have weird results. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be taken into account. They all paint a certain picture based on how the calculation is done and so long as you take that into account they are useful. But to give an example, here's some of those advanced stats for the Lakers three power forwards and notice how vastly different they all are:

Basketball Reference

VORP (Value over Replacement Player):
Nance: 0.3
Kuzma: 0.1
Randle: 0.1

BPM: (Box Score Plus Minus)
Nance: +2.4
Randle: -1
Kuzma: -1.5

Defensive BPM:
Nance: +3
Randle: +1
Kuzma: -1.7

Offensive BPM:
Kuzma: +0.3
Nance: -0.6
Randle: -2

Win Shares:
Kuzma: +1.5
Nance: +1.3
Randle: +1

Win Shares/48:
Nance: 0.17
Randle: 0.12
Kuzma: 0.107

Offensive Win Shares:
Kuzma: 0.9
Nance: 0.5
Randle: 0.5

Defensive Win Shares:
Randle: 0.8
Kuzma: 0.6
Nance: 0.6

That is very slanted towards Nance and very much at odds with the stats on other sites.

82Games.com

Production:
Randle: +3.3
Kuzma: +0.5
Nance: -1.1

On Court:
Randle: +1
Kuzma: +0.5
Nance: -9.7

Net Rating:
Randle: +8.3
Kuzma: -2.8
Nance: -8.3

Simple Rating:
Randle: +5
Kuzma: -0.6
Nance: -3.5

Per Differential/48:
Randle (C): +4.6
Kuzma (PF): +2
Nance (PF): +0.4
Randle (PF): +0.3
Nance (C): -5

On/Off Net/100 Possessions:
Randle: +9
Kuzma: -0.8
Nance: -8

Win Percentage:
Randle (C): 60%
Randle (PF): 55%
Kuzma (PF): 52%
Nance (PF): 41%
Nance (C): 12%

That very much favors Randle, with Larry being the worst of the bunch.

NBA.Com:

PIE:
Randle: 12.8
Nance: 11.7
Kuzma: 11.5

Offensive Rating (points/100 poss):
Randle: 102.2
Kuzma: 101.7
Nance: 94.6

Defensive Rating (Lower is better, points allowed/100 poss):
Randle: 101.4
Nance:103.5
Kuzma: 105.8

Net Rating (points gained/100 poss):
Randle: +0.8
Kuzma: -4
Nance: -8.9

+/-:

Randle: +0.5
Kuzma: -2.9
Nance: -4.8

That also very much favors Randle, with Larry being the worst of the bunch.

ESPN:

PER:
Nance: 18.01
Randle: 17.21
Kuzma: 15.67

Value Added:
Randle: 43
Kuzma: 42.3
Nance: 28.3

Estimated Wins Added:
Kuzma: 1.4
Randle: 1.4
Nance: 0.9

RPM:
Nance: 0.48
Randle: 0.41
Kuzma: -2.64

Offensive RPM:
Kuzma: -0.04
Randle: -0.75
Nance: -1.18

Defensive RPM:
Nance: 1.66
Randle: 1.16
Kuzma: -2.6

That is the most mixed bag with each guy excelling in certain areas.

My point here is that each of those stats is calculated in different ways that may favor one player or the other. You need to take the calculation into account and then figure out why the stats favor one player over another. But it's a typical issue with advanced stats.
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socalsp3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject:

So the argument for not starting Kuzma is that you can lose even worse?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)


God, look at the discrepancy between Luke's dream line-up in red, and what common LG fans are saying in the blue or even purple.

Luke loves seeing red negatives for sure for playing Ingram/Nance/Lopez all those minutes at a net loss of -9.7 smh.

RIP
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)


God, look at the discrepancy between Luke's dream line-up in red, and what common LG fans are saying in the blue or even purple.

Luke loves seeing red negatives for sure for playing Ingram/Nance/Lopez all those minutes at a net loss of -9.7 smh.

RIP


This one is also one that Luke SHOULD be running more just to see if it's as legit as it has seemed so far:

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)

Only 12 (bleep) minutes for this lineup. Unbelievable
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Here's the Net Rating for Nance's 2-Man Lineups

Nance + Caruso...+150.0 (1 minute)
Nance + Ennis......+74.3 (7 minutes)
Nance.+ Clarkson..+11.8 (49 minutes)
Nance + Bogut.......+9.6 (23 minutes)
Nance + Hart.........+5.1 (17 minutes)
Nance + Brewer......+2.2 (33 minutes)
Nance + Lopez........-5.2 (220 minutes)
Nance + Ingram......-9.6 (269 minutes)
Nance + Ball..........-11.1 (264 minutes)
Nance + KCP..........-14.1 (220 minutes)
Nance + Deng........-26.8 (13 minutes)
Nance + Randle......-30.7 (17 minutes)
Nance + Kuzma......-40.5 (31 minutes)
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Last edited by GoldenThroat on Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Here's the Net Rating for Nance's 2-Man Lineups

Nance + Caruso...+150.0 (1 minute)
Nance + Ennis......+74.3 (7 minutes)
Nance.+ Nance.....+11.1 (49 minutes)
Nance + Bogut.......+9.6 (23 minutes)
Nance + Hart.........+5.1 (17 minutes)
Nance + Brewer......+2.2 (33 minutes)
Nance + Lopez........-5.2 (220 minutes)
Nance + Ingram......-9.6 (269 minutes)
Nance + Ball..........-11.1 (264 minutes)
Nance + KCP..........-14.1 (220 minutes)
Nance + Deng........-26.8 (13 minutes)
Nance + Randle......-30.7 (17 minutes)
Nance + Kuzma......-40.5 (31 minutes)


dat Nance/Nance duo is legit!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject:

lol
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Here's the Net Rating for Nance's 2-Man Lineups

Nance + Caruso...+150.0 (1 minute)
Nance + Ennis......+74.3 (7 minutes)
Nance.+ Nance.....+11.1 (49 minutes)
Nance + Bogut.......+9.6 (23 minutes)
Nance + Hart.........+5.1 (17 minutes)
Nance + Brewer......+2.2 (33 minutes)
Nance + Lopez........-5.2 (220 minutes)
Nance + Ingram......-9.6 (269 minutes)
Nance + Ball..........-11.1 (264 minutes)
Nance + KCP..........-14.1 (220 minutes)
Nance + Deng........-26.8 (13 minutes)
Nance + Randle......-30.7 (17 minutes)
Nance + Kuzma......-40.5 (31 minutes)


dat Nance/Nance duo is legit!


obvs sposed to be the nance/lance lineup

GT get it together fam smh
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Wasn't even the right number either. That was +11.8 for Nance + Clarkson.

I can't be trusted.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject:

I thought Nance was great tonight. Non-stop hustle on the offensive boards.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
I thought Nance was great tonight. Non-stop hustle on the offensive boards.


Love the activity.
One thing though, please don't post up.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Here's the Net Rating for Nance's 2-Man Lineups

Nance + Caruso...+150.0 (1 minute)
Nance + Ennis......+74.3 (7 minutes)
Nance.+ Clarkson..+11.8 (49 minutes)
Nance + Bogut.......+9.6 (23 minutes)
Nance + Hart.........+5.1 (17 minutes)
Nance + Brewer......+2.2 (33 minutes)
Nance + Lopez........-5.2 (220 minutes)
Nance + Ingram......-9.6 (269 minutes)
Nance + Ball..........-11.1 (264 minutes)
Nance + KCP..........-14.1 (220 minutes)
Nance + Deng........-26.8 (13 minutes)
Nance + Randle......-30.7 (17 minutes)
Nance + Kuzma......-40.5 (31 minutes)

Nance/Kuz lol
Also, another year, another instance of the Nance/Randle pairing being a disaster
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
I thought Nance was great tonight. Non-stop hustle on the offensive boards.


Love the activity.
One thing though, please don't post up.


They're posting him up to pass (a'la Draymond). He's been doing well with it. Lack of shooters, though.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject:

Why is Nance bad at Center?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Why is Nance bad at Center?


He doesn't match up well physically (and just doesn't seem to have the altitude) but he doesn't have the range or ability to offset that. So he cant guard you, but he doesnt make you pay by guarding him.
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