Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 2415 Location: Far from home
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: 1/3 of the way through Season 2017-18
26 games down, 56 to go.
Where are these Lakers, so far ? Well, aren't they are about where most of us thought they would be at season's end, given good health:
- On pace for just about a low-ish thirties win season
- Near the hunt, but not in position to snag a playoff slot
- Playing inconsistently night to night, about as much as a young team can
- Showing some improvement in key young talents Ingram and Randle
Yet, there are been a few surprises for me:
- the extent of Kuzma's versatility for scoring at this level
- the defense is significantly revamped and improved so quickly
- Lonzo's perimeter accuracy is not so great so far
- Brook Lopez is not the reliable - or even close - to being the team's leading scorer _________________ “These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”
1. The win total is about what I expected.
2. I am not surprised to see Lonzo having rookie struggles and lots of people thought he'd have shooting issues.
3. Ingram has had nice incremental improvement.
4. The defense has been surprisingly good.
5. The rent a vets are a mixed bag: Its a thrown together team of parts that were designed for flexibility next year rather than to match this year.
6. Kuz has been one of the big pleasant surprises.
7. I didn't know if Randle would be really good or really bad and he's been kind of in the middle.
8. Overall, I don't find there to be huge shocking surprises either good or bad, other than maybe the defense. I was looking for this team to make decent, but not mind-boggling progress, and that's what happened.
1. I was expecting about 35 wins, but we appear to be trending south of that number. That's disappointing, though not a big deal in the long run.
2. I let myself get sucked into some of the Ball hype, and as a result he has been a disappointment for me. It isn't just that he has struggled. I would expect that from a rookie. Instead, I'm starting to wonder whether his ceiling is really all that high. In fact, I am starting to think that Magic got sucked into the hype about how Ball was going to be a "transcendent" player like, well, Magic. I may eat these words some day, but the first third of the season has made me re-evaluate my expectations for Ball.
3. I also got sucked into some of the Casey P. hype. He is not an elite defender or a good offensive player. I guess he's an above average SG, all things considered. Still, this year will probably give him the biggest paychecks of his life.
4. Lopez has been about what I expected. Nice guy, I suppose.
5. Randle and Clarkson have impressed me at times.
6. Kuzma has been a mild disappointment to me. He was more NBA ready than the typical rookie, but I don't sense that his ceiling is much higher than what he is doing now. He was a steal in the draft, to be sure.
7. Luke did an impressive job getting the team to play defense. Otherwise, I think he has had problems balancing the need to win with the need to develop players. I suspect, but do not know for a fact, that he has been hampered in his handling of Ball by front office interference.
8. Lavar Balltic is a bigger problem than people think. If the game is to sign big name free agents next summer, think about what our organization looks like right now from the outside.
I'll keep my feedback brief: I'm really pleased at the defense in spells. When they put their mind to it, they're pretty good at making the opposing team take tough shots.
I view that as a huge improvement over the last ~6 seasons.
As with most young teams, need to see more consistency on both sides of the ball. I also feel we need a more reliable #1 scoring option.
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7922 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:48 pm Post subject:
* Wins - about what I was expecting. We should improve, and we'll get some tanking team freebies at the end so our % should improve.
* Lonzo - I wasn't expecting the defense. I was expecting closer to average shooting. I'll take what we are getting from the rookie.
* Lopez - We better be getting a good FA in summer.......
* KCP - We dropped Nwaba to pay him even more? He only shows up every 3rd game.
* Kuzma - the lone bright spot out there exceeding expectations.
* Randle - So much good right next to so much "Huh???" If only we still had a year on his contract to see his year 4 play.
This team should just spend practices shooting FT's and perimeter shots.
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1732 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1. I was expecting about 35 wins, but we appear to be trending south of that number. That's disappointing, though not a big deal in the long run.
2. I let myself get sucked into some of the Ball hype, and as a result he has been a disappointment for me. It isn't just that he has struggled. I would expect that from a rookie. Instead, I'm starting to wonder whether his ceiling is really all that high. In fact, I am starting to think that Magic got sucked into the hype about how Ball was going to be a "transcendent" player like, well, Magic. I may eat these words some day, but the first third of the season has made me re-evaluate my expectations for Ball.
3. I also got sucked into some of the Casey P. hype. He is not an elite defender or a good offensive player. I guess he's an above average SG, all things considered. Still, this year will probably give him the biggest paychecks of his life.
4. Lopez has been about what I expected. Nice guy, I suppose.
5. Randle and Clarkson have impressed me at times.
6. Kuzma has been a mild disappointment to me. He was more NBA ready than the typical rookie, but I don't sense that his ceiling is much higher than what he is doing now. He was a steal in the draft, to be sure.
7. Luke did an impressive job getting the team to play defense. Otherwise, I think he has had problems balancing the need to win with the need to develop players. I suspect, but do not know for a fact, that he has been hampered in his handling of Ball by front office interference.
8. Lavar Balltic is a bigger problem than people think. If the game is to sign big name free agents next summer, think about what our organization looks like right now from the outside.
1 - yea
2 - You have a 19 year old Point Guard averaging near triple doubles and filling up the stat sheet in everything but points. Not sure what you look for in a rookie to determine their ceiling but if he was average just a few points more everyone would be calling him the next GOAT.
3 - He's exactly what we thought he was IMO
4 - yea
5 - Imagine if they actually were given more time.
6 - ??????? What? You think what he's doing in his rookie year is as good as it gets? Why? What? This is baffling.
7 - Luke has been the biggest disappointment IMO
8 - I think things are looking up, no one gives a (bleep) about Lavar
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:53 pm Post subject:
I expected Zo to have stats like a rookie JKidd. Didn't expect he'd make Kidd look like a sharpshooter.
Did not expect Lopez to be so unreliable at making open threes.
Pleased that Kuz wasn't just a summer league stud who disappeared against real competition.
Thought we could get to 35-37 wins. We'll struggle to break 30.
I expected modest improvements from BI and Randle. They've slightly exceeded my expectations. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
On pace for a big loss season, which is what I expected, but much more competitive in games than I expected, which is a nice plus.
Lonzo playing like Rondo which is what I expected (though I'm surprised his FT shooting is seriously that bad).
Hate we have no closer and think JC should be that guy until BI or someone else develops.Expscted that a team as young as ours wouldn't have one but still hate it because I know having a true go to would've turned many of these close games to wins.
Disappointed in Luke's coaching staff, but glad to see him making an effort to Change lineups and adjust throughout the first part of the season. Good improvement overall on his part as a coach.
Very surprised our D continues to show up. Thought it was a fluke so. liar to Nick Young Playing D to start last season but so far so good.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject:
Day wrote:
2 - You have a 19 year old Point Guard averaging near triple doubles and filling up the stat sheet in everything but points. Not sure what you look for in a rookie to determine their ceiling but if he was average just a few points more everyone would be calling him the next GOAT.
no they would not....nobody is calling someone that scores 10-11 PPG as a rookie the next GOAT. Also, Lebron and Westbrook are averaging near a triple double....Ball is not even close.....if you do not average "double" figures in 2...or at least even 1 of the 3 (triple) categories....your not averaging near a triple double.
2 - You have a 19 year old Point Guard averaging near triple doubles and filling up the stat sheet in everything but points. Not sure what you look for in a rookie to determine their ceiling but if he was average just a few points more everyone would be calling him the next GOAT.
Reality check:
He's averaging 9-7-7. That's not a single double average, let alone near a triple double average.
He's shooting 33-26-49.
People are debating whether he'll even making the rookie second team.
He's had a decent rookie season, and shown some flashes. But let's not go overboard.
We've given away a ton of winnable games, which is always frustrating. I was hoping we'd reach at least 30 wins, and that's still possible. At the very least we better exceed the 26 wins from last season
- I expected around 30-32 wins and that's fine, team is just too young
- Kuzma fantastic display so far great to see
- Ingram becoming the leader in some way
- Defense is a little bit better
- KCP better than I expected
- Lonzo display as expected for me. Boards and assists where I expected. I only expected around 13p per game but I mean young rookie PG.
Things which are not so good:
- Disappointed with Luke coaching so far ( bad rotations, too friendly with the players, assistants not chosen properly
- Not happy with our offense, because I cant see any identity there
- Brook definitely below my expectations, really slow and cant really shoot
- Lonzo shooting the ball
- All this stupid things related with Lavar
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35853 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:06 am Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1. I was expecting about 35 wins, but we appear to be trending south of that number. That's disappointing, though not a big deal in the long run.
2. I let myself get sucked into some of the Ball hype, and as a result he has been a disappointment for me. It isn't just that he has struggled. I would expect that from a rookie. Instead, I'm starting to wonder whether his ceiling is really all that high. In fact, I am starting to think that Magic got sucked into the hype about how Ball was going to be a "transcendent" player like, well, Magic. I may eat these words some day, but the first third of the season has made me re-evaluate my expectations for Ball.
3. I also got sucked into some of the Casey P. hype. He is not an elite defender or a good offensive player. I guess he's an above average SG, all things considered. Still, this year will probably give him the biggest paychecks of his life.
4. Lopez has been about what I expected. Nice guy, I suppose.
5. Randle and Clarkson have impressed me at times.
6. Kuzma has been a mild disappointment to me. He was more NBA ready than the typical rookie, but I don't sense that his ceiling is much higher than what he is doing now. He was a steal in the draft, to be sure.
7. Luke did an impressive job getting the team to play defense. Otherwise, I think he has had problems balancing the need to win with the need to develop players. I suspect, but do not know for a fact, that he has been hampered in his handling of Ball by front office interference.
8. Lavar Balltic is a bigger problem than people think. If the game is to sign big name free agents next summer, think about what our organization looks like right now from the outside.
Literally what _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
2 - You have a 19 year old Point Guard averaging near triple doubles and filling up the stat sheet in everything but points. Not sure what you look for in a rookie to determine their ceiling but if he was average just a few points more everyone would be calling him the next GOAT.
no they would not....nobody is calling someone that scores 10-11 PPG as a rookie the next GOAT. Also, Lebron and Westbrook are averaging near a triple double....Ball is not even close.....if you do not average "double" figures in 2...or at least even 1 of the 3 (triple) categories....your not averaging near a triple double.
LB stats in rookie season (26 game) (19year)
8.9Pt, 6.9R, 7A
1Block, 1.4steal, 2.5TO
Just to counter "Lebron and Westbrook are averaging near a triple double....Ball is not even close"
at least just look at stat sheet, ball is definitely closer to triple double then WB and LJ is at rookie season.
And look at other stats in block, steal and TO, ball is almost better then WB and LJ. The only real concern is sadly points, and I don see him at this points will average 25PPG in any season, which sadly might determine GOAT status. _________________
1. The win total is about what I expected.
2. I am not surprised to see Lonzo having rookie struggles and lots of people thought he'd have shooting issues.
3. Ingram has had nice incremental improvement.
4. The defense has been surprisingly good.
5. The rent a vets are a mixed bag: Its a thrown together team of parts that were designed for flexibility next year rather than to match this year.
6. Kuz has been one of the big pleasant surprises.
7. I didn't know if Randle would be really good or really bad and he's been kind of in the middle.
8. Overall, I don't find there to be huge shocking surprises either good or bad, other than maybe the defense. I was looking for this team to make decent, but not mind-boggling progress, and that's what happened.
I think this about sums it up. Although regarding Lonzo, I guess I never understood the argument that since most people knew he'd have shooting issues, that there should be no surprises here in regards to it.
His shooting woes, across the board, are significantly worse than I thought they would be.
But Ingram didn't show signs of consistency until post ASB last year, so, as frustrated as I am with Lonzo, I think it is only fair to at least give him through the end of the season to show positive signs on a consistent basis.
Through the 1/3 of the season though, yeah, as bad as I expected him to be as a shooter/scorer, it's been much worse than I thought.
We've given away a ton of winnable games, which is always frustrating. I was hoping we'd reach at least 30 wins, and that's still possible. At the very least we better exceed the 26 wins from last season
Last season we were blown out in a ton of games. At least we are making a little progress.
The young guys are showing flashes and the team defense has definitely improved. 35 wins would be impressive for this team.
1) Thought Lonzo would be a better shooter, but worse defender. He’s making around the impact I expected.
2) Lopez has been a major letdown. I thought we’d win about 35 games because I assumed he was a go to scorer, he’s not...he’s actually pretty bad.
3) BI is better than I thought he’d be this year as are Randle and Kuz
4) Larry has disappointed me, his game hasn’t progressed one bit.
5) Our defense is better than expected, offensive worse.
I think we will win 32-35 games or so and I think Lonzo will start really showing out the last 25 or so games. I think that if Lonzo was a better shooter and if lopez was a go to scorer then we could sniff .500 this year.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:58 am Post subject:
adtz wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Day wrote:
2 - You have a 19 year old Point Guard averaging near triple doubles and filling up the stat sheet in everything but points. Not sure what you look for in a rookie to determine their ceiling but if he was average just a few points more everyone would be calling him the next GOAT.
no they would not....nobody is calling someone that scores 10-11 PPG as a rookie the next GOAT. Also, Lebron and Westbrook are averaging near a triple double....Ball is not even close.....if you do not average "double" figures in 2...or at least even 1 of the 3 (triple) categories....your not averaging near a triple double.
LB stats in rookie season (26 game) (19year)
8.9Pt, 6.9R, 7A
1Block, 1.4steal, 2.5TO
Just to counter "Lebron and Westbrook are averaging near a triple double....Ball is not even close"
at least just look at stat sheet, ball is definitely closer to triple double then WB and LJ is at rookie season.
And look at other stats in block, steal and TO, ball is almost better then WB and LJ. The only real concern is sadly points, and I don see him at this points will average 25PPG in any season, which sadly might determine GOAT status.
thats 100% irrelevant to any point made....the reference is to this season.
1.) Development of young core. BI JC and Julius all made leaps in their game this year.
2.) Focus on defence already paying dividends. Kudos to coaching staff for turning the team around on this aspect of the game. From bottom to top 10 so far.
3.) Kyle. Alexander. Kuzma.
The Bad:
1.) Lineups and rotations. A third into the season and Luke hasn’t figured out our optimal starting lineup yet.
2.) Slow start by Lonzo Ball. He’s starting to figure it out and I expect him to get better as the season kicks into gear.
3.) Rent-a-vets somewhat holding the team back. KCP is playing as expected but playing way too many minutes at team high 34+ mins. Lopez hasn’t been playing up to par.
at least just look at stat sheet, ball is definitely closer to triple double then WB and LJ is at rookie season.
And look at other stats in block, steal and TO, ball is almost better then WB and LJ. The only real concern is sadly points, and I don see him at this points will average 25PPG in any season, which sadly might determine GOAT status.
Let's have a reality check here: Ball isn't having some historical season. Heck, Michael Carter-Williams as a rookie had better overall numbers.
Ball's assists and especially his rebounds are impressive for a rookie guard. His scoring average is poor. His shooting averages are embarrassing. His steals and turnovers are OK.
If you took the rookie of the year vote right now, Ball would probably come in no higher than fifth. So all this talk of "GOAT status" is pretty ridiculous.
Lonzo has been a disapointment - a possibly broken shot is as worrisome as it gets. A decent amount of good flashes, but, future revolves around the shot and it's scary. Awesome as hell that he could be an elite defende one day
Ingram has been solid, for sure. He has a potentially elite skill, that's really encouraging. His shooting has been a D+ to me, maybe a C- after tonight.. I don't like the form.. Shooting is the most important skill in the league, so his overall grade is a C+ to me this year. Playing well in big games, fun to watch. I still am hopeful he's a perennial allstar. His defense has been a C/C- compared to my expectation for this season. He hasn't been closing out great (some effort issues, man) . Doesn't look so great in a stance guarding, but decent.
Kuzma has still been a revelation. He's great. Tonight was his most selfish game. He could still be a good passer, and maybe something of an initiator. Rookies are bad at defense, but he has solid flashes there.
I predicted before SL that he'd be a good shooter, he is! He'll shoot it really well in his prime. Can handle. What a fricking pick
Lopez is a massive disappointment and has ruined this team's ceiling.
Hart mighttttt be coming along as a revelation
LUKE...good job with the defense. Please continue to get better on O. The rotations are horrid. "D" grade
KCP has been a "B-"
Nance is injury prone
RANDLE! Championship role player. Get him close to 30mins and get him a better shooting coach....maybe some midrange one day
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