OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Ingram struggling once teams take the middle away. This game thus far has been a blueprint on how to stop Ingram. If/when other teams start scouting/blueprinting him this way, his numbers and efficiency are going to start dropping till he fixes that jumper.


We'll see. If they haven't figured it out at this point I'm trying to figure out why it would start just now. 20+ games is an awfully long time to take to figure out the obvious.


"if they haven't figured it out by now"

They've been figuring it out just like Ingram's been figuring out his game.

Once he develops a constant source of effectiveness, teams will start scouting and blueprinting it.

That's why the 2nd year tells the story, cause teams start seeing what you do consistently and preparing for it.

That's what's happening.


They've been figuring it out yet he's had arguably his most effective stretch scoring over the last 10-11 games prior to last night?
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
DrDent wrote:
Didnt get to see this game, so what I say here is in a bit of a vacuum:

Not too long ago the guy we want (PG13) had a 1-12 stinker; then after that a spectacular 2-17 crapper with 6 turnovers [if you are curious re "impact on other areas of game": PG 13did have 10 assists in one of those bad shooting games, and 8 rebounds in another; BI had in his crapper game tonight 7 rebounds and 5 assists ].

Not making excuses, just pointing out even veteran all stars can have real stinkers too. The real test to this is how BI responds.


He's not done having stinkers.. I don't think it's a big deal. But if he doesn't understand why he's having stinkers then it's a problem.

He probably would have 8 or 9 assists if our guys finished better around the basket.


That's the thing about BI, he seems to pick up on why he screws up and legitimately try and fix them.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Until he can shoot, I expect more teams to start implementing the strategy the Knicks just used to shut him down.

The only real answer against that game plan for him is to either have a jump shot from mid falling where he can stop and pop, or for the other team to not defend him that way.

Because they played him perfect, took away his only strength offensively and he didn't have any confidence to try anything else offensively because he knows he doesn't have it.

Mentally you see where he was last night, they took away the drive, he kept trying it, they kept stopping it. He doesn't have a consistent jumper from mid so he never went for it after he was stopped, and instead became a drive and kick guy, which they started playing and it caused other issues.


Other teams will watch that clip of Ingram and start forcing him to have to shoot instead of leaving him on an island to get to the basket against single coverage of a big.

If other teams start consistently doing this to Ingram he's gonna need to start using that spot up three and working on that pull up jumper.


Well lord, then we can FINALLY have Randle as our first option and he can break out HIS jumper!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Afrosho wrote:
Got scared of Porzingis yesterday. Several times, he changed his mind at the last moment and turned it over or made a bad pass after seeing Porzi waiting for him.
Not confident enough in his physical abilities yet to go at a guy like this I guess. It was quite obvious it was in his mind the all game.


He should pass that... no need to repeatedly challenge one of the longest player should in the league at the rim


Fwiw this season thus far BI has scored with ease over Rudy Gobert, Demarcus and Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Andre Drummond, Kevin Durant, Deandre Jordan, Joel Embiid, and Dwight Howard.

I expect BI to attack extra hard with revenge in his head when we play the Knicks next time in LA.
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dao
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject:

I don't like the mentaility of "focus on what I'm good at" for Ingram. Playing the right way is almost more important than results for a young developing player. He needs to be taking EVERY open jumper PERIOD. He's starting to develop bad habits, and his style of play is also hurting the team.


Lopez is shooting 30.8% from three...not exactly Dirk thpe percentages....but he's attempting 6.5 threes per 36. Lonzo is shooting like trash but attempts 5.2 per 36.

Ingram is attempting 1.7 per 36. That's just a failure man. The coaching staff should be emphasizing that he takes more threes. I blame Luke honestly. A coach like Pop wouldn't let that fly. You play the right way or you sit. "I'll just drive until I learn to shoot." That's garbage.
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bandiger
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject:

dao wrote:
I don't like the mentaility of "focus on what I'm good at" for Ingram. Playing the right way is almost more important than results for a young developing player. He needs to be taking EVERY open jumper PERIOD. He's starting to develop bad habits, and his style of play is also hurting the team.


Lopez is shooting 30.8% from three...not exactly Dirk thpe percentages....but he's attempting 6.5 threes per 36. Lonzo is shooting like trash but attempts 5.2 per 36.

Ingram is attempting 1.7 per 36. That's just a failure man. The coaching staff should be emphasizing that he takes more threes. I blame Luke honestly. A coach like Pop wouldn't let that fly. You play the right way or you sit. "I'll just drive until I learn to shoot." That's garbage.


That's the worst part, he's taking less 3s than last year.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject:

video
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/941038499238699008

"The Knicks did a good job of packing the paint and throwing bodies (Porzingis, most notably) at Ingram when he got to the rim last night. After today’s practice in Cleveland, Ingram is spending extra time working on his pull-up J as a counter." Mike Trudell.

Should have made this a priority earlier but this is great news.. They're working on a resolution.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject:

Teams will look to shut him down as our primary scorer he will adjust
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
video
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/941038499238699008

"The Knicks did a good job of packing the paint and throwing bodies (Porzingis, most notably) at Ingram when he got to the rim last night. After today’s practice in Cleveland, Ingram is spending extra time working on his pull-up J as a counter." Mike Trudell.

Should have made this a priority earlier but this is great news.. They're working on a resolution.


Can't expect these young guns to think like veterans. I mean, Luke himself isn't even a veteran coach. The types of games like the one last night really helps with individual development. Last season was hopeless because we set an NBA record for most 35 pts or more losses in a season. This year we are losing close games so individuals can point some blame at themselves for what went wrong to lose the game.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
video
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/941038499238699008

"The Knicks did a good job of packing the paint and throwing bodies (Porzingis, most notably) at Ingram when he got to the rim last night. After today’s practice in Cleveland, Ingram is spending extra time working on his pull-up J as a counter." Mike Trudell.

Should have made this a priority earlier but this is great news.. They're working on a resolution.


Can't expect these young guns to think like veterans. I mean, Luke himself isn't even a veteran coach. The types of games like the one last night really helps with individual development. Last season was hopeless because we set an NBA record for most 35 pts or more losses in a season. This year we are losing close games so individuals can point some blame at themselves for what went wrong to lose the game.


I agree to an extent.. We aren't professional analysts on this site yet many saw this coming. I'm not one to dump on the coaching staff too much, but they should have already been on top of this.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
video
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/941038499238699008

"The Knicks did a good job of packing the paint and throwing bodies (Porzingis, most notably) at Ingram when he got to the rim last night. After today’s practice in Cleveland, Ingram is spending extra time working on his pull-up J as a counter." Mike Trudell.

Should have made this a priority earlier but this is great news.. They're working on a resolution.


Can't expect these young guns to think like veterans. I mean, Luke himself isn't even a veteran coach. The types of games like the one last night really helps with individual development. Last season was hopeless because we set an NBA record for most 35 pts or more losses in a season. This year we are losing close games so individuals can point some blame at themselves for what went wrong to lose the game.


I agree to an extent.. We aren't professional analysts on this site yet many saw this coming. I'm not one to dump on the coaching staff too much, but they should have already been on top of this.


I'm sure they have been expecting this, but Luke, like PJ before him, likes for his guys to be put in position to have to fail to learn through things on their own. I also think that they staff wants these guys progressing at their own pace right now for the sake of their own confidence. When developing 20, 21,22 year olds developing and keeping that confidence up can be just as big a part of development as actually getting the skills put together. Just ask Nick Anderson.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

I'm trying to imagine what a 25 year old Ingram will look like. He's such a baby at 20.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm trying to imagine what a 25 year old Ingram will look like. He's such a baby at 20.


Right? I personally think he's progressing well with his game. I don't see a physical difference with the naked eye but he isn't getting knocked around as much as last season, so his strength has definitely improved.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject:

back when kobe was playing. he would take one or two things and work on them during a whole summer. perfect his craft and then move on to the next part of his game.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject:

Lakesh0wtime wrote:
back when kobe was playing. he would take one or two things and work on them during a whole summer. perfect his craft and then move on to the next part of his game.


Loved that about Kobe.. I remember anticipating the next season, wondering what new wrinkle he's added.
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject:

I hope Ingram adds the dirk nudge defender one leg jumper. With his height thatll be deadly
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MJST
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
video
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/941038499238699008

"The Knicks did a good job of packing the paint and throwing bodies (Porzingis, most notably) at Ingram when he got to the rim last night. After today’s practice in Cleveland, Ingram is spending extra time working on his pull-up J as a counter." Mike Trudell.

Should have made this a priority earlier but this is great news.. They're working on a resolution.


Exactly, he knows it too. He can't skate by on that jumper anymore as other teams are gonna start playing him the way the Knicks did.

After his comments one wonders if that Knicks game was a humbling experience.

PayasoLoco wrote:
I hope Ingram adds the dirk nudge defender one leg jumper. With his height thatll be deadly


I hope Ingram actually makes good on his promise to work out with Kobe.

He didn't all off-season and it shows in his footwork which was supposed to be a main issue he and Kobe were going to work on.
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Last edited by MJST on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
I hope Ingram actually makes good on his promise to work out with Kobe.

He didn't all off-season and it shows in hos footwork which was supposed to be a main issue he and Kobe were going to work on.


a thousand times this
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject:

With his slashing ability his ceiling hinges on his jumper.

Personally, I hope he builds confidence in his catch and shoot jumper before his pull-up jumper. 1) Catch and shoot 3s fit into modern offenses better than pullup 3s. And 2) He can be nearly unstoppable out of triple threat position if he develops catch and shoot 3s and shot fakes.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
With his slashing ability his ceiling hinges on his jumper.

Personally, I hope he builds confidence in his catch and shoot jumper before his pull-up jumper. 1) Catch and shoot 3s fit into modern offenses better than pullup 3s. And 2) He can be nearly unstoppable out of triple threat position if he develops catch and shoot 3s and shot fakes.

He has a teammate that could show him a thing or two about pumpfaking from 3 then driving.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
MJST wrote:
I hope Ingram actually makes good on his promise to work out with Kobe.

He didn't all off-season and it shows in hos footwork which was supposed to be a main issue he and Kobe were going to work on.


a thousand times this


Agreed. Just needs to develop different options out of mid to high post so he's not always a face up slasher. Unless of course he can become a knock down shooter. He's not that yet either.

Don't care if he works out with Kobe or some other person, just want to see improved options, most of which depend on very good footwork. He had to exhibited improvement in that yet.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
kikanga wrote:
With his slashing ability his ceiling hinges on his jumper.

Personally, I hope he builds confidence in his catch and shoot jumper before his pull-up jumper. 1) Catch and shoot 3s fit into modern offenses better than pullup 3s. And 2) He can be nearly unstoppable out of triple threat position if he develops catch and shoot 3s and shot fakes.

He has a teammate that could show him a thing or two about pumpfaking from 3 then driving.


Kuuuz. Ingram w an off the dribble jumper would allow hesi/shot fakes off the bounce and he would be unstoppable .. cuz he's a really good ball handler , in a way he's having his handling limited by lack of a jumper
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject:

BI just needs time to become proficient at the skills we all believe he needs to improve upon. Last season showed he was not physically ready which affected his entire game. He's made substantial gains in this area with more to come as his body matures.

Only 26 games into this season he has shown marked improvement in being able to slash to the basket, absorb contact and score. This seems to have been a priority for BI.

He has modified his shooting stroke and while it is still a work in progress the improvement he has shown bodes well for the future. This is one skill that usually takes the longest to become proficient at given you are attempting to change years of muscle memory (see Aaron Gordon).

The other skills (post ups, counters, pull ups) are based less on muscle memory and instead on developing new skills. However developing new skills need to come in increments and hopefully in the next 2 years he will make significant gains in these areas.

Most importantly he has developed the confidence and mental strength to play in the NBA and become star level player.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject:

3PT Shooting

Wins (10 games): 10-23 (43.5%)
Losses (16 games): 3-19 (15.8%)

Putting up better numbers in wins than losses is true for almost every player, for obvious reasons, but I find it interesting that he's attempting almost twice as many 3's in our wins versus our losses. The simplest explanation is that he only takes more attempts when he's successful with his jumper early on, but I do think it speaks to how important it is for the team as a whole that he can (and does) shoot.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
3PT Shooting

Wins (10 games): 10-23 (43.5%)
Losses (16 games): 3-19 (15.8%)

Putting up better numbers in wins than losses is true for almost every player, for obvious reasons, but I find it interesting that he's attempting almost twice as many 3's in our wins versus our losses. The simplest explanation is that he only takes more attempts when he's successful with his jumper early on, but I do think it speaks to how important it is for the team as a whole that he can (and does) shoot.


I noticed that as well.. in regards to his early success in shooting.

Maybe he needs a tinge of Kobe's mentality. And I do mean a tinge lol.

Kobe could miss 5 straight threes and give not one (bleep). He'd go 5 for 30 if he felt the need.
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