Ball vs. DLO
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
DLaker wrote:

It is not right to put in percentages when we don't know all the variables involved.



That's one of my pet peeves -- when people say there is a 95% chance of this or a 70% chance of that or a 30% chance of this when they are just pulling numbers out of thin air.

It's just a way of pretending there is more analysis or science behind an opinion than there really is.

But this mod GT actually did talk to both team's FO or close sources... not out of thin air


Only as it pertains to their opinion of Kyle Kuzma.


any comment on what was thought of dlo's knees?

and how was it that they got such a better read of kuz than other teams?


Seriously, how are we even discussing if this was a bad trade at this point. The kid's played 12 games this season, and they still can not set a timetable for his return. Josh Hart has contributed more to wins and losses this season.


He's on track to play on Friday.

And the first half of the 2017-18 season is a weird gauge for whether or not this was a good trade.


A half a season doesn't matter? He's only locked up for another two.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
DLaker wrote:

It is not right to put in percentages when we don't know all the variables involved.



That's one of my pet peeves -- when people say there is a 95% chance of this or a 70% chance of that or a 30% chance of this when they are just pulling numbers out of thin air.

It's just a way of pretending there is more analysis or science behind an opinion than there really is.

But this mod GT actually did talk to both team's FO or close sources... not out of thin air


Only as it pertains to their opinion of Kyle Kuzma.


any comment on what was thought of dlo's knees?

and how was it that they got such a better read of kuz than other teams?


Seriously, how are we even discussing if this was a bad trade at this point. The kid's played 12 games this season, and they still can not set a timetable for his return. Josh Hart has contributed more to wins and losses this season.


He's on track to play on Friday.

And the first half of the 2017-18 season is a weird gauge for whether or not this was a good trade.


A half a season doesn't matter? He's only locked up for another two.


That isn't what I said.
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Fastbreak32
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject:

This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, whom i was sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.


Last edited by cal1piggy on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.

it's been pretty much civil discussion
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.


Yeah, and that's fine. In general, Lonzo is the better prospect. They each play the guard position in different ways. Both can be successful.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject:

DLaker wrote:


It is not right to put in percentages when we don't know all the variables involved. Dlo not traded, he will be 100% be here. We can also say it will be highly likely Mozgov and Deng is still here. Kuz is a different variable, who knows what the Lakers will do. The Lakers traded the 28 to pick up two draft picks who to say they won't do that again and gamble with the 27. There are a lot of variables that could not be accounted for, does the Lakers know about DLo's knees, when he had that plasma injection last year so early in his career, I was imagining Brandon Roy.

We can make all the fantasy trade, but we can see from Deng that shedding that contract is difficult. The 100% facts are that we traded Dlo and Moz and got Lopez, Kuz, money to sign KCP and more flexibility in the summer to make moves. The situation we have last year was because of the dumb moves our previous management made. Rob and Magic was given a problem and in my opinion their solution is going toward a positive direction. In a perfect world, I would have love Jokic or Nurkic than Randle, Porz or Booker than Dlo, did not sign Moz and Deng, did not give up so much for Nash, got something back for Howard and Gasol, and NBA allowed the Chris Paul trade. But I was only dreaming


How so? We had money to sign KCP nonetheless. We got more salaries back than we dumped. The difference is that Moz had 2 more years of contract than Brook.
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epak
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.

it's been pretty much civil discussion



Yep.
And from reading this thread, I think the consensus on LG is:

Lonzo > DLO.

And there are 3 types of posters:
1. Lonzo is better than DLO. And that's all the user has to say.
2. Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here.
3. Lonzo is better than DLO, and they add why they're glad DLO is gone.


I love LG.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
governator wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.

it's been pretty much civil discussion



Yep.
And from reading this thread, I think the consensus on LG is:

Lonzo > DLO.

And there are 3 types of posters:
1. Lonzo is better than DLO. And that's all the user has to say.
2. Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here.
3. Lonzo is better than DLO, and they add why they're glad DLO is gone.


I love LG.


Don't forget the camp that says Kuzma was the 27th pick and part of the trade. And the camp that said Hart & Bryant were part of the trade. There's the camp that says the Nets would have never selected Kuzma had they kept the pick. And then there's Kyle Kuzma who said the only 3 teams interested in him were the Lakers, Nets, & Spurs. So no matter what you believe, I think we all can agree this is a tired argument from both sides.

I too love LG though
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo impacts the game is more way than Dlo can.
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epak
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
epak wrote:
governator wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.

it's been pretty much civil discussion



Yep.
And from reading this thread, I think the consensus on LG is:

Lonzo > DLO.

And there are 3 types of posters:
1. Lonzo is better than DLO. And that's all the user has to say.
2. Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here.
3. Lonzo is better than DLO, and they add why they're glad DLO is gone.


I love LG.


Don't forget the camp that says Kuzma was the 27th pick and part of the trade. And the camp that said Hart & Bryant were part of the trade. There's the camp that says the Nets would have never selected Kuzma had they kept the pick. And then there's Kyle Kuzma who said the only 3 teams interested in him were the Lakers, Nets, & Spurs. So no matter what you believe, I think we all can agree this is a tired argument from both sides.

I too love LG though


I disagree. I can never get tired of it!
Remember when many thought DLO would be an all-star this year?
Due to injury it aint gonna happen.
Maybe next year?
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Lonzo impacts the game is more way than Dlo can.

example of camp #1
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
governator wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.

it's been pretty much civil discussion



Yep.
And from reading this thread, I think the consensus on LG is:

Lonzo > DLO.

And there are 3 types of posters:
1. Lonzo is better than DLO. And that's all the user has to say.
2. Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here.
3. Lonzo is better than DLO, and they add why they're glad DLO is gone.


I love LG.


4. I don't really care who's better, and that's pretty irrelevant to me, but I wish we had kept Russell and let him and Lonzo play together
5. It's too early to say which of them is better than the other.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
epak wrote:
governator wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year.

it's been pretty much civil discussion



Yep.
And from reading this thread, I think the consensus on LG is:

Lonzo > DLO.

And there are 3 types of posters:
1. Lonzo is better than DLO. And that's all the user has to say.
2. Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here.
3. Lonzo is better than DLO, and they add why they're glad DLO is gone.


I love LG.


4. I don't really care who's better, and that's pretty irrelevant to me, but I wish we had kept Russell and let him and Lonzo play together
5. It's too early to say which of them is better than the other.


new 2. Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here but agrees the trade was better for the team.

2.a Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here but thinks the trade was too early or not good for the team.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject:

Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


judging by the way Ball has played so far, Russell would surely be playing behind him... which means, either Russell plays the SG position, or he goes to the bench... something he pouted and whined about before..
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


judging by the way Ball has played so far, Russell would surely be playing behind him... which means, either Russell plays the SG position, or he goes to the bench... something he pouted and whined about before..


I remember his response differently. Have any links to show the whining?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


judging by the way Ball has played so far, Russell would surely be playing behind him... which means, either Russell plays the SG position, or he goes to the bench... something he pouted and whined about before..


Russell hated playing SG so much that he suggested he & JC switch roles last year so he could play SG.

“If I got the opportunity to play with him now I would rather him have the ball in his hands and me play off the ball,” Russell said. “Usually when we play in the previous times, it’s been me having the ball, him being a shooting guard off the ball. I want to see how if we’re switched around how that goes.”
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject:

He sure seemed to take to sharing ball handling duties with Lin too.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


judging by the way Ball has played so far, Russell would surely be playing behind him... which means, either Russell plays the SG position, or he goes to the bench... something he pouted and whined about before..


Russell hated playing SG so much that he suggested he & JC switch roles last year so he could play SG.

“If I got the opportunity to play with him now I would rather him have the ball in his hands and me play off the ball,” Russell said. “Usually when we play in the previous times, it’s been me having the ball, him being a shooting guard off the ball. I want to see how if we’re switched around how that goes.”


reading is fundamental.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject:

Pretty sure I remember quotes of him specifically saying he preferred SG and it was more of his natural role.

Also remember him favoriting a tweet that said "Russel is more of an SG". Also remember all of the conversation on LG about if he was more of a PG or SG and I think most people preferred him at at the 2.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject:

Ball seems like he makes everyone around him better. He covers for mistakes on D, great rebounder, great passer ; minimal TO's and he's great on the fastbreak and not afraid to take it to the basket. His shot needs work but its getting better

DLO is a strong shooter and he's a good passer with higher TO rate than Lonzo. D is inconsistent at best. Shy's away from contact.

I agree with some that they would've made a good tandem as DLO is strong at the one thing Lonzo needs work on.

But to answer the question, Lonzo is more important to this team than DLO was to last year's squad.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject:

DLO would have fit very well with Lonzo. It's a shame he didn't see it that way and that the FO jettisoned him. Those two long term would have been fun to watch assuming they both stayed healthy.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject:

Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


I never saw it as Ball vs DLo because I was expecting them to play together.

Just like I never saw it as Ingram vs DLo.

It doesn’t matter who is better to me. On paper, they compliment each other really well.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


judging by the way Ball has played so far, Russell would surely be playing behind him... which means, either Russell plays the SG position, or he goes to the bench... something he pouted and whined about before..


Russell hated playing SG so much that he suggested he & JC switch roles last year so he could play SG.

“If I got the opportunity to play with him now I would rather him have the ball in his hands and me play off the ball,” Russell said. “Usually when we play in the previous times, it’s been me having the ball, him being a shooting guard off the ball. I want to see how if we’re switched around how that goes.”


reading is fundamental.


You also said he "would surely be playing behind him."
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject:

Fastbreak32 wrote:
Drifts wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Fastbreak32 wrote:
This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist.


judging by the way Ball has played so far, Russell would surely be playing behind him... which means, either Russell plays the SG position, or he goes to the bench... something he pouted and whined about before..


Russell hated playing SG so much that he suggested he & JC switch roles last year so he could play SG.

“If I got the opportunity to play with him now I would rather him have the ball in his hands and me play off the ball,” Russell said. “Usually when we play in the previous times, it’s been me having the ball, him being a shooting guard off the ball. I want to see how if we’re switched around how that goes.”


reading is fundamental.


You also said he "would surely be playing behind him."


Fundamental indeed.
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