NBA outlines plan for nationwide sports betting

 
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: NBA outlines plan for nationwide sports betting

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In what could end up being a seminal moment for sports gambling in America, the NBA on Wednesday formally requested a set of laws that could be the basis for professional sports leagues pushing for national legalized wagering on games.

Dan Spillane, an attorney for the NBA, testified in front of a New York State Senate committee and for the first time made it clear what the league's price would be to become a partner in legalizing the multibillion dollar industry.

The NBA wants 1 percent of every bet made on its games in addition to other regulations, a request that could create massive revenue for the NBA and other sports leagues in the future.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject:

isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?


It seems that way on the surface, but the gambling industry is based on the notion that you set the odds so bets are placed equally, so the bookies make the same amount no matter who wins or loses.

So it really doesn't matter who wins or loses from the bookies standpoint. The only thing that matters is how much people bet.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?


It seems that way on the surface, but the gambling industry is based on the notion that you set the odds so bets are placed equally, so the bookies make the same amount no matter who wins or loses.

So it really doesn't matter who wins or loses from the bookies standpoint. The only thing that matters is how much people bet.


True, I get that. But the NBA would still have an interest in making the games more attractive to bet on. From that perspective they have an incentive to influence results on some level so as to encourage the most amount of bets possible.

I get that the NBA already has this incentive even without gambling involved, but it's a slippery slope IMO
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?


It seems that way on the surface, but the gambling industry is based on the notion that you set the odds so bets are placed equally, so the bookies make the same amount no matter who wins or loses.

So it really doesn't matter who wins or loses from the bookies standpoint. The only thing that matters is how much people bet.


True, I get that. But the NBA would still have an interest in making the games more attractive to bet on. From that perspective they have an incentive to influence results on some level so as to encourage the most amount of bets possible.

I get that the NBA already has this incentive even without gambling involved, but it's a slippery slope IMO



People like to bet, so they are going to bet on the NBA no matter what. I don't really see what types of things you are envisioning that the NBA could or would do to materially affect how much was bet that would be suspicious. Is there anything specific you have in mind or is this more just a general worry?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject:

The NBA already has scheduling rules, betting wouldn’t change that. People bet on games, that is a fixed cost. This would only give the league a piece of what is already happening.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?


It seems that way on the surface, but the gambling industry is based on the notion that you set the odds so bets are placed equally, so the bookies make the same amount no matter who wins or loses.

So it really doesn't matter who wins or loses from the bookies standpoint. The only thing that matters is how much people bet.


True, I get that. But the NBA would still have an interest in making the games more attractive to bet on. From that perspective they have an incentive to influence results on some level so as to encourage the most amount of bets possible.

I get that the NBA already has this incentive even without gambling involved, but it's a slippery slope IMO



People like to bet, so they are going to bet on the NBA no matter what. I don't really see what types of things you are envisioning that the NBA could or would do to materially affect how much was bet that would be suspicious. Is there anything specific you have in mind or is this more just a general worry?


A scenario where the Lakers and say Timberwolves are in the WCF. The Celtics are coming out of the east.

In that situation the NBA will be highly motivated to have the Lakers make the finals vs the Celtics because there would be far more bets placed on a Lakers/Celtics finals than a Wolves/Celtics finals.

People do like to bet, but the amount of betting is not fixed. It varies based on interest in the subject of the betting. Mayweather/McGregor makes more for Vegas than Demetrius Johnson/Ray Borg.

One can make the argument this incentive is already there because the TV ratings and everything else favors a Lakers/Celtics finals as well. I'd argue adding betting profits only makes the issue and temptation to fix games more intense.

I understand the NBA wants a slice of the gambling pie, but if I'm a lawmaker I'd be erring on the side fair competition
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?


I believe that line was crossed when these leagues became invested in daily fantasy sports like DraftKings and Fanduel. Thats why sports gambling isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
22 wrote:
isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?


I believe that line was crossed when these leagues became invested in daily fantasy sports like DraftKings and Fanduel. Thats why sports gambling isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.


very true
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:


A scenario where the Lakers and say Timberwolves are in the WCF. The Celtics are coming out of the east.

In that situation the NBA will be highly motivated to have the Lakers make the finals vs the Celtics because there would be far more bets placed on a Lakers/Celtics finals than a Wolves/Celtics finals.


As you said, that's no different than today when some people think the NBA fixes some games to produce matchups that will result in better television ratings.

If the NBA goes into the gambling business, it will just feed the conspiracy theories of people who already believe in conspiracy theories and think games are fixed, but I don't think it will fundamentally changed the way the league is viewed.

The NBA being the NBA, I don't see them passing on a chance to make money, just because it will invite more conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories are just the cost of doing business.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject:

They need to fix the officiating first. It's like one cannot tell how the officials are going to call calls a given night.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
isn't it a conflict of interest for them to get a portion on the bets?


It seems that way on the surface, but the gambling industry is based on the notion that you set the odds so bets are placed equally, so the bookies make the same amount no matter who wins or loses.

So it really doesn't matter who wins or loses from the bookies standpoint. The only thing that matters is how much people bet.


True, I get that. But the NBA would still have an interest in making the games more attractive to bet on. From that perspective they have an incentive to influence results on some level so as to encourage the most amount of bets possible.

I get that the NBA already has this incentive even without gambling involved, but it's a slippery slope IMO



People like to bet, so they are going to bet on the NBA no matter what. I don't really see what types of things you are envisioning that the NBA could or would do to materially affect how much was bet that would be suspicious. Is there anything specific you have in mind or is this more just a general worry?


A scenario where the Lakers and say Timberwolves are in the WCF. The Celtics are coming out of the east.

In that situation the NBA will be highly motivated to have the Lakers make the finals vs the Celtics because there would be far more bets placed on a Lakers/Celtics finals than a Wolves/Celtics finals.

People do like to bet, but the amount of betting is not fixed. It varies based on interest in the subject of the betting. Mayweather/McGregor makes more for Vegas than Demetrius Johnson/Ray Borg.

One can make the argument this incentive is already there because the TV ratings and everything else favors a Lakers/Celtics finals as well. I'd argue adding betting profits only makes the issue and temptation to fix games more intense.

I understand the NBA wants a slice of the gambling pie, but if I'm a lawmaker I'd be erring on the side fair competition


If the NBA was proven to fix games it would be destroyed. 1% of some extra bets isn’t worth that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
It seems that way on the surface, but the gambling industry is based on the notion that you set the odds so bets are placed equally, so the bookies make the same amount no matter who wins or loses.

So it really doesn't matter who wins or loses from the bookies standpoint. The only thing that matters is how much people bet.


I remember someone in the business saying that this is not entirely true -- that sports books also put a lot of weight on their own assessment of the likely outcome. I think I remember something about a 75/25 split being the target, with the 75 on the side that the sports books consider to be a loser. The sports books are looking for a bigger return than just the rake.

But I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, and it doesn't make any difference to this discussion.

Anyway, think of the 1% fee as a form of royalty for the use of the NBA's trademarks. This gets into the fundamental problem of all pro sports that a team or a league can make money on only a small portion of the activity generated by sports.

I can see the argument that this would give the NBA the incentive to generate matchups (at least in the playoffs) that produce larger numbers of bets. I'm not sure the difference would be of a sufficient magnitude to make some conspiracy worth the risk. How much more betting would be generated by LA vs. NY than SA vs. Toronto? I can buy the idea that it would be greater, but would 1% of the difference from that series be enough to induce the NBA to engage in the modern equivalent of the Black Sox scandal? That seems unlikely.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The NBA wants 1 percent of every bet made on its games in addition to other regulations, a request that could create massive revenue for the NBA and other sports leagues in the future.

Spillane also said the NBA wants more widespread access to gambling for its fans, pushing for bets to be made legal on smartphones and kiosks and not just inside casinos and racetracks. That would increase the amount of wagering and, in turn, create more revenue for the league under its desired plan.

Spillane added that the league believes it is time for a change in regards to sports gambling:

“We have studied these issues at length,” Spillane said in his statement to lawmakers. “Our conclusion is that the time has come for a different approach that gives sports fans a safe and legal way to wager on sporting events while protecting the integrity of the underlying competitions.”


http://www.lakersnation.com/adam-silber-nba-sets-forth-plan-to-nationally-legalize-sports-gambling/2018/01/25/
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
It seems that way on the surface, but the gambling industry is based on the notion that you set the odds so bets are placed equally, so the bookies make the same amount no matter who wins or loses.

So it really doesn't matter who wins or loses from the bookies standpoint. The only thing that matters is how much people bet.


I remember someone in the business saying that this is not entirely true -- that sports books also put a lot of weight on their own assessment of the likely outcome. I think I remember something about a 75/25 split being the target, with the 75 on the side that the sports books consider to be a loser. The sports books are looking for a bigger return than just the rake.

But I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, and it doesn't make any difference to this discussion.

Anyway, think of the 1% fee as a form of royalty for the use of the NBA's trademarks. This gets into the fundamental problem of all pro sports that a team or a league can make money on only a small portion of the activity generated by sports.

I can see the argument that this would give the NBA the incentive to generate matchups (at least in the playoffs) that produce larger numbers of bets. I'm not sure the difference would be of a sufficient magnitude to make some conspiracy worth the risk. How much more betting would be generated by LA vs. NY than SA vs. Toronto? I can buy the idea that it would be greater, but would 1% of the difference from that series be enough to induce the NBA to engage in the modern equivalent of the Black Sox scandal? That seems unlikely.


Yeah, but conspiracy theorist types don't really care about the logic of it. They always seem to assume that the NBA would take a massive amount of risk to make it infinitesimals profit. The logic is that someone would take a bet that if you flip a coin and it comes up heads they get $5, but it comes up Tails their hand gets broken with a hammer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject:

The conspiracy theory label gets thrown around a bit too much these days. One can be concerned without thinking there's some full blown conspiracy.

I think it's a bit naive to think there isn't any potential for game fixing/influence here.

If the 1% wasn't a big deal to them they wouldn't be going through such lengths to get it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
The conspiracy theory label gets thrown around a bit too much these days. One can be concerned without thinking there's some full blown conspiracy.

I think it's a bit naive to think there isn't any potential for game fixing/influence here.

If the 1% wasn't a big deal to them they wouldn't be going through such lengths to get it.



You're mixing the numbers around. Everyone realizes that 1% of the rake from all the betting on NBA games is a lot of money.

The trivial amount would be the additional boost in betting from trying to manipulate the matchups.

I think it's silly to think that NBA officials would risk imprisonment and the collapse of the league if it was ever found out. On top of that, the owners of the individual teams wouldn't like their teams being manipulated out of the running, so this theory would require the employees of the league to scam the owner of the leagues for the sake of a tiny boost in overall revenues.

Manipulating games would require the participation of the referees. And we've seen NBA refs go to prison and be fired and have every reason in the world to trade any evidence they have about game manipulation, and there's never been any actual evidence it's every happened or they've ever been pressured to influence games. So, yeah, I don't think it happens.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
The conspiracy theory label gets thrown around a bit too much these days. One can be concerned without thinking there's some full blown conspiracy.

I think it's a bit naive to think there isn't any potential for game fixing/influence here.

If the 1% wasn't a big deal to them they wouldn't be going through such lengths to get it.



You're mixing the numbers around. Everyone realizes that 1% of the rake from all the betting on NBA games is a lot of money.

The trivial amount would be the additional boost in betting from trying to manipulate the matchups.

I think it's silly to think that NBA officials would risk imprisonment and the collapse of the league if it was ever found out. On top of that, the owners of the individual teams wouldn't like their teams being manipulated out of the running, so this theory would require the employees of the league to scam the owner of the leagues for the sake of a tiny boost in overall revenues.

Manipulating games would require the participation of the referees. And we've seen NBA refs go to prison and be fired and have every reason in the world to trade any evidence they have about game manipulation, and there's never been any actual evidence it's every happened or they've ever been pressured to influence games. So, yeah, I don't think it happens.


never said it happened. I said there's potential for it, and there is. There always is. Allowing them to get a piece gambling increases that potential.

I don't think the increase in numbers would be "tiny" either, but w/o proof neither of us can stake that claim. There's a reason big names in fights sell a ton more ppv's and have a ton more betting activity. My assumption is it would be the same in the NBA. I don't think it's far fetched at all. If you can't envision away in which they could accomplish it without getting discovered that's fine. Still doesn't mean it's not possible. And that's all I'm arguing is the potential of it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
The conspiracy theory label gets thrown around a bit too much these days. One can be concerned without thinking there's some full blown conspiracy.

I think it's a bit naive to think there isn't any potential for game fixing/influence here.

If the 1% wasn't a big deal to them they wouldn't be going through such lengths to get it.


You may not have been around for all of the conspiracy theory wars of the past. The league fixed the Pistons series, the league fixed the first Boston series, and Donaghy proved all of this. If people like AV and me are quick to label something as a conspiracy theory, cut us some slack.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
22 wrote:
The conspiracy theory label gets thrown around a bit too much these days. One can be concerned without thinking there's some full blown conspiracy.

I think it's a bit naive to think there isn't any potential for game fixing/influence here.

If the 1% wasn't a big deal to them they wouldn't be going through such lengths to get it.


You may not have been around for all of the conspiracy theory wars of the past. The league fixed the Pistons series, the league fixed the first Boston series, and Donaghy proved all of this. If people like AV and me are quick to label something as a conspiracy theory, cut us some slack.


Fair enough. not trying to bash y'all
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
22 wrote:
The conspiracy theory label gets thrown around a bit too much these days. One can be concerned without thinking there's some full blown conspiracy.

I think it's a bit naive to think there isn't any potential for game fixing/influence here.

If the 1% wasn't a big deal to them they wouldn't be going through such lengths to get it.


You may not have been around for all of the conspiracy theory wars of the past. The league fixed the Pistons series, the league fixed the first Boston series, and Donaghy proved all of this. If people like AV and me are quick to label something as a conspiracy theory, cut us some slack.


Fair enough. not trying to bash y'all


No worries. It's just that, as Hunter said, those of us who spent a long time around LG have heard conspiracy theories for virtually every outcome that's ever happened in the league... from every finals, to every draft lottery, to you name it. If Boston wins, it's a conspiracy. If the Lakers win, it's a conspiracy. If LeBron wins, it's a conspiracy. If LeBron loses, it's a conspiracy. And the reasoning for these so many conspiracies are always convoluted, farfetch, and contradictory.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject:

fasho fellas, there's for sure some wild theories out there no doubt
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