So what was it about Bynumís knees that made him so injury prone?
Goto page Previous  1, 2

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Cutheon
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 7671
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject:

^Right, but that's exactly why I argue they broke him. It should have been clear that Kwame needed some nurturing and probably professional help (therapy). Now, if that's a reason to not draft a player, so be it. But if you are going to invest the resources into him, I think they owed it to themselves and Kwame to try and help him; instead, MJ couldn't handle the fact that his #1 pick did not share the same mental strength that he did, and he went all JK Simmons in Whiplash on him. Maybe break isn't the right word, but I'm not sure what else to term it when someone picks up a built, if fragile, toy, proceeds to shatter it, and then wonders why it no longer works.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
slavavov
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 4110
Location: Santa Monica

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
^Right, but that's exactly why I argue they broke him. It should have been clear that Kwame needed some nurturing and probably professional help (therapy). Now, if that's a reason to not draft a player, so be it. But if you are going to invest the resources into him, I think they owed it to themselves and Kwame to try and help him; instead, MJ couldn't handle the fact that his #1 pick did not share the same mental strength that he did, and he went all JK Simmons in Whiplash on him. Maybe break isn't the right word, but I'm not sure what else to term it when someone picks up a built, if fragile, toy, proceeds to shatter it, and then wonders why it no longer works.

Those are some good points, but if Kwame was mentally weak to begin with, then therapy wouldn't have magically transformed him. It might've helped a little and he might've been able to be a 12/8 type of player, but I doubt that he would've become an All-Star caliber player. The article that I mentioned made it seem like he was a mama's boy who had some real issues. There have been way too many guys who dominated in HS or even college, had a good physique but floundered in the NBA because the transition is just too steep.
_________________
"Lindsay Hunter is starting to make Devean George look like John Stockton" - Bill Walton, Game 4 of the 2002 WCFs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Cutheon
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 7671
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject:

^Probably true, but if the Wizards organization was aware of that, they certainly did not help matters with how they approached Kwame. In any event, I think we are pretty much in agreement. Even if Kwame's first landing spot wasn't that great, he never managed to show much beyond flashes. A lot of that has to do with falling by the wayside early in your career and losing out on critical development, and the other part has to do with the sheer amount of talent at the NBA level.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 59604
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject:

^I think the Wizards just wanted a franchise player, saw Kwame was the best of them based on workouts (and nothing else), and just flat out drafted him.

I don't blame them. He had high post skills out of high school. If you're a dude that's 6'10" with a 7'1" wingspan, a midrange J, and a straight-line drive, that goes FAR, especially in the early 2000's.

The guy that I thought would be the most successful was Tyson Chandler of the HS group, because he was just a thinner version of Willie Cauley-Stein with all of the athletic tools. I felt comfortable after watching a handful of HS games and hearing about his work ethic back then. Championship. Gold medal. DPOY? That's a hell of a career.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
Troy Brown, Kevin Huerter, Chandler Hutchison, De'Anthony Melton, Jerome Robinson, Aaron Holiday, Bruce Brown, Donte Divincenzo, Josh Okogie
Jarred Vanderbilt, Landry Shamet, Alize Johnson
@Lakersoutsiders
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Cutheon
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 7671
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I think the Wizards just wanted a franchise player, saw Kwame was the best of them based on workouts (and nothing else), and just flat out drafted him.

I don't blame them. He had high post skills out of high school. If you're a dude that's 6'10" with a 7'1" wingspan, a midrange J, and a straight-line drive, that goes FAR, especially in the early 2000's.

The guy that I thought would be the most successful was Tyson Chandler of the HS group, because he was just a thinner version of Willie Cauley-Stein with all of the athletic tools. I felt comfortable after watching a handful of HS games and hearing about his work ethic back then. Championship. Gold medal. DPOY? That's a hell of a career.


Leaving the instability of Chicago and heading to a then up-and-coming NOH with Paul was a great move for him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
slavavov
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 4110
Location: Santa Monica

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I think the Wizards just wanted a franchise player, saw Kwame was the best of them based on workouts (and nothing else), and just flat out drafted him.

I don't blame them. He had high post skills out of high school. If you're a dude that's 6'10" with a 7'1" wingspan, a midrange J, and a straight-line drive, that goes FAR, especially in the early 2000's.

The guy that I thought would be the most successful was Tyson Chandler of the HS group, because he was just a thinner version of Willie Cauley-Stein with all of the athletic tools. I felt comfortable after watching a handful of HS games and hearing about his work ethic back then. Championship. Gold medal. DPOY? That's a hell of a career.

I think what guys like Kwame and Andrew Bynum have shown us is that it's the mental aspect, much more than physical talent or the skills you mentioned that determine how far a player will go in the NBA. I'm sure there have been plenty of guys who came into the NBA with no real skills, yet developed some over time and became decent players because they had the mental part down. It's one thing to dominate in HS, especially in a small backwoods town in the south as opposed to a place like the NYC area. It's a whole another thing to be even a decent player when you're an 18/19 underdeveloped boy going up against grown a$$ men in the NBA.
_________________
"Lindsay Hunter is starting to make Devean George look like John Stockton" - Bill Walton, Game 4 of the 2002 WCFs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
socalsp3
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 2407

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject:

Oden had the same degenerative knee problem. Just something some people are born with.
_________________
Zo-Mo is coming
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 28387
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Washington, DC

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I think the Wizards just wanted a franchise player, saw Kwame was the best of them based on workouts (and nothing else), and just flat out drafted him.

I don't blame them. He had high post skills out of high school. If you're a dude that's 6'10" with a 7'1" wingspan, a midrange J, and a straight-line drive, that goes FAR, especially in the early 2000's.

The guy that I thought would be the most successful was Tyson Chandler of the HS group, because he was just a thinner version of Willie Cauley-Stein with all of the athletic tools. I felt comfortable after watching a handful of HS games and hearing about his work ethic back then. Championship. Gold medal. DPOY? That's a hell of a career.


Kwame had a mid-range jumper in high school? How come we never saw it in the NBA and why was he such a terrible free throw shooter? I also didn't know that he was able to put ball on the floor, or even catch it, without fumbling it.

How athletic was he and who's a comparable player athleticism wise? I've never thought of him as a freak like Dwight or Chandler.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrbEjppnd4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
hellsling
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1833

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject:

Bynum was predisposed for knee problems since he was born with knocked knees. It also didn't help that two of his major knee injuries were freak accidents. Kobe falling on his knee and falling on the foot of Lamar after going for a rebound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 16287

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
Yeah. Great NBA body at age 18. Very strong, easily able to pack on more muscle and mass, without losing much in the way of speed or athleticism. Performed well in his class, which included other stand-out centers. Drafted in an age where lack of skill was much more easily off-set by athletic potential. I think it was MJ's first draft, so he wanted to make a splash pick, and I doubt MJ of all people thought the weak white guy from Spain would make for a good choice.

I think he had talent, for sure, but he dominated largely due to his height and, as noted, his already-NBA level body. That was the key difference, to me. It's one thing to simply be tall in high school, ala Tyson Chandler & Eddy Curry (same class), another thing entirely when you are tall and built like a brick wall that can run the floor and elevate. And he was confident - at the time.

I truly think MJ broke Kwame and, after that, he fell to the wayside in a league where the consistent and the new are paid much more attention to than the old and the broken. Throw in the tougher competition, a questionable desire to play the game, the fact that he was so, so young...

Kwame Brown 2006 playoffs

^it was all there, but he was only occasionally able to put it together. Same story with a LOT of NBA players, but this one just so happens to include the #1 pick and the most famous athlete of all time calling him a (bleep) (bleep) to his face.


I remember Kwame was playing very well in those playoffs. But then that girl came out of nowhere and tried to sue Kwame for sexual assault or something.

Of course it was found out to be lies, obviously, but he mentally never looked the same after that report came out. As mentally fragile as Kwame was, that one story seemed to shake him and knocked him out of whatever zone he was in and had started the playoffs in.

Was quite sad to watch tbh.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 16287

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject:

hellsling wrote:
Bynum was predisposed for knee problems since he was born with knocked knees. It also didn't help that two of his major knee injuries were freak accidents. Kobe falling on his knee and falling on the foot of Lamar after going for a rebound.


This is one of the reasons Kareem told him to keep his knees bent, especially under the basket. But Bynum constantly stood straight up.

his knee injuries could have potentially been avoided if he'd listened to that one bit of advice from Kareem.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 59604
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I think the Wizards just wanted a franchise player, saw Kwame was the best of them based on workouts (and nothing else), and just flat out drafted him.

I don't blame them. He had high post skills out of high school. If you're a dude that's 6'10" with a 7'1" wingspan, a midrange J, and a straight-line drive, that goes FAR, especially in the early 2000's.

The guy that I thought would be the most successful was Tyson Chandler of the HS group, because he was just a thinner version of Willie Cauley-Stein with all of the athletic tools. I felt comfortable after watching a handful of HS games and hearing about his work ethic back then. Championship. Gold medal. DPOY? That's a hell of a career.


Kwame had a mid-range jumper in high school? How come we never saw it in the NBA and why was he such a terrible free throw shooter? I also didn't know that he was able to put ball on the floor, or even catch it, without fumbling it.

How athletic was he and who's a comparable player athleticism wise? I've never thought of him as a freak like Dwight or Chandler.


Yeah he did. But kid didn't have great work ethic.

Thinner Faried. Less motor.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
Troy Brown, Kevin Huerter, Chandler Hutchison, De'Anthony Melton, Jerome Robinson, Aaron Holiday, Bruce Brown, Donte Divincenzo, Josh Okogie
Jarred Vanderbilt, Landry Shamet, Alize Johnson
@Lakersoutsiders
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 51572

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject:

Come on Mike, you also compared his game to Haywood
Haywood was a poor low block player

Bynum was special
His hands were soft
He rarely dropped a pass
You never gave him credit for how talented he was and how natural he was in the low post.
Will never forget how he went back and scored on Shaq as a rookie.
It was just something he had that most bigs lack in the last 2 decades. Good feet, good hands and a desire to score in the paint.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Rz0TSprFc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
High school injury.

Overworked his knees running up sand dunes as a 320+lb rookie.
mike i trust your knowledge on a lot of things and a lot of scouting reports. but i aint buying the sand dunes issue.

highschool injury yes.

but due to him being born knocked kneed predisposes him to knee problems. doesnt mean everyone thats born like that will have issues. but it means if someone will have injuries it would be him first. It didnt help that people kept crashing into his knees and hyper extending them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I think the Wizards just wanted a franchise player, saw Kwame was the best of them based on workouts (and nothing else), and just flat out drafted him.

I don't blame them. He had high post skills out of high school. If you're a dude that's 6'10" with a 7'1" wingspan, a midrange J, and a straight-line drive, that goes FAR, especially in the early 2000's.

The guy that I thought would be the most successful was Tyson Chandler of the HS group, because he was just a thinner version of Willie Cauley-Stein with all of the athletic tools. I felt comfortable after watching a handful of HS games and hearing about his work ethic back then. Championship. Gold medal. DPOY? That's a hell of a career.


Kwame had a mid-range jumper in high school? How come we never saw it in the NBA and why was he such a terrible free throw shooter? I also didn't know that he was able to put ball on the floor, or even catch it, without fumbling it.

How athletic was he and who's a comparable player athleticism wise? I've never thought of him as a freak like Dwight or Chandler.


Yeah he did. But kid didn't have great work ethic.

Thinner Faried. Less motor.
kwame was a headcase. even if he worked a bit harder. he would still fumble the ball and brick ft's. it was more mental than anything with him. It comes from issues he had with his dad and his upbringing.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/06/02/kwame-brown-opens-up-about-his-nba-career-facing-criticism-michael-jordan-and-more/
Quote:
KB: I think God works in mysterious ways. My life was so hard in the beginning. I was in and out of homeless shelters. I had to deal with an abusive father; he would abuse my mother. I had to deal with the police, who would kick down our door because my brothers were outside selling drugs. My childhood was crazy. And I still had to go to school while all this was going on. They did this thing called regentrification when I was young, so weíd get bussed from the inner city in Brunswick, GA, all the way to St. Simons Island, where I attended a predominately white school and got a really good education. Iím thankful for that part [of my childhood], because the alternative wouldíve been crazy, but that was my life. It was crazy. When I was a kid, they kicked down my door 40 times.

So, to answer your question, itís easy for me to look past people talking about me. Thatís nothing. It is sort of frustrating when people are talking about me and Iím not even getting the opportunity to play and silence the critics, especially my first year in the league. They told me to put on 40 lbs. so I did that, but then I was so big and heavy that I couldnít move around well. So I was being bashed and then not even getting the opportunity to play big minutes and prove myself. [Editorís note: Brown played in only 57 games as a rookie and averaged 14.3 minutes.]

As I did my research for this interview, I was surprised there was only one season in your 12-year career where you played 30 minutes per game. That was your third year with the Wizards, when you were 21 years old, and you averaged 10.9 points, 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists and 1 steal while shooting 48.9 percent from the field.

KB: Every time Iíve gotten the opportunity to play Ė my third year in Washington, when I was in Charlotte, when I was in L.A. Ė I did pretty well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 3080

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject:

hellsling wrote:
Bynum was predisposed for knee problems since he was born with knocked knees. It also didn't help that two of his major knee injuries were freak accidents. Kobe falling on his knee and falling on the foot of Lamar after going for a rebound.

yes this is what i remember. there was talk about him having bad knees out of high school, but both of his major injuries were those accidents that would take anyone's knees out. now, he seems to have this reputation of being a fragile player, but other than those freak incidents there wasn't much of a problem. he was a very good center, he did some amazing things and was a difference maker in our championship series.

Quote:

Bynum was special
His hands were soft
He rarely dropped a pass
You never gave him credit for how talented he was and how natural he was in the low post.
Will never forget how he went back and scored on Shaq as a rookie.
It was just something he had that most bigs lack in the last 2 decades. Good feet, good hands and a desire to score in the paint.

yea i agree. and when he came in, he was so raw and nobody knew anything about him. if any of our new guys can pan out like that, it would be huge for us now. he would do spectacular things out of the blue. i remember two amazing plays...well three...
one game, he just took off from the free throw line and dunked with one hand, sky high. it was incredible.
he blocked or dunked on kg, something serious. i dont remember which exactly.
this one alleyoop, he reached for it, and it seemed his body was horizontal to the ground, barely got it behind the rim (like kobe's reverse trademark dunk, but an alleyoop) and dunked it from the other side practically. amazing play.
_________________
U+1F49C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
20,000
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 29075
Location: At encina1's house

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: So what was it about Bynumís knees that made him so injury prone?

LakerFan87 wrote:
Salt_Lakers_City wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Did we ever learn the structural cause?


In before people come in here to talk trash on his work ethic.

For starters, he had a great work ethic, despite what people here believe. Every year his post game and free throws were getting better. He was in the midst of developing a jump shot unti, unfortunately his knees could not take any more. Iím a big fan of Bynum, wish he didnít have knee problems I wish we still had him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRqfzDsx3lA

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I was a big Bynum fan and hope he is happy and doing well in his post-NBA endeavors.


Sorry, I couldn't resist.

https://youtu.be/n2C8RoMAVeE
_________________
Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB