-3.1 RPM. That's #90 amongst the NBA's 99 point guards. His TS% is also under 50% for the season. His assist:TO ratio is terrible for a PG. He's been pretty bad this year. I know he's been dealing with the gimpy knees, but that in itself is a problem as well, because his knee problems probably aren't going anywhere.
^I know you like numbers, so here's something interesting to point out.
Russell's per-36 post-injury without Okafor: 125.2 ORTG, 110.6 DRTG, 27 points per 36 (52.4 TS%), 6.5 AST (6.0 TO, yikes), 3.7 RBD. 77 min.
With Okafor: 97.7 ORTG, 120.7 DRTG, 5.5 points per 36 (17.5% TS%), 4.7 assists (3.1 TO), 3.9 RBD, 46 min.
Sample sizes are tiny (in fact, his post-injury sample in general is tiny) but it's something I noticed today. Russell actually subbed in for Dinwiddie in the 3rd and looked really good with the starters; Okafor came in and their momentum died lol.
But don't get me wrong. I've caught enough minutes to know that it's stupid to put all the blame on Okafor. Russell's jump shot has been MIA and that seriously hurts his effectiveness as an offensive player. He's had turnover and defense issues even when he was healthy.
I might have reservations of Magic and Rob about their reasoning behind the trade, but I do think we "won" the trade no question. I'm actually really interested in following Russell's career trajectory and glad I can do it without the Lakers being adversely affected lol. I wouldn't be surprised to see him light it up post-ASB and make me regret this comment, or just struggle for years and break out 5 years later.
Oh, and I'm not worried about his knees long term any more than Lonzo's right now. People said Curry would be injury prone and that never manifested. Too early to say for anyone.
-3.1 RPM. That's #90 amongst the NBA's 99 point guards. His TS% is also under 50% for the season. His assist:TO ratio is terrible for a PG. He's been pretty bad this year. I know he's been dealing with the gimpy knees, but that in itself is a problem as well, because his knee problems probably aren't going anywhere.
6 TO's tonight in 17 minutes? Yikes.
During Laker game, he started off with turquoise shoes that matched the Barclays logo (it would seem) and then at halftime, he switched to a basic black/white pair. Wonder what that was about. Certain shoes hurting his knees? I can't help but think LA FO knew to a certainty that he had a problematic condition or that they were simply paranoid that he did and factored that into their decision as a "same difference" thing. Not too far back, LA dumped Big Drew right before his knees finally became so bad that they ended his career. Hard to believe they didn't have a more intimate knowledge of his ailments than Philly did, even though it was well-known he had multiple injuries/surgeries. Not that the Duh-wight experiment was a bowl of cherries, but we got rid of both D'Lo and Drew at the right moments, either way. I'm more inclined to think they were calculated moves rather than pure luck (a thing we've been short on since Chick died).
Consensus about Nick Van Exel's trade is that it was caused by "1-2-3, CANCUN!..." in the 98 playoffs and maybe the Del Harris stomping/pointing/yelling scene in his face on bench in the 97 playoffs. However, it was also public knowledge that he had knee problems. I remember reading as early as Summer 96 in a preview mag that he was short on cartilage and was nearly at a bone-on-bone state in at least one of his knees. That season, he began wearing a compression-style kneepad on his left knee. He had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee in Feb 98. Finally he's gone in June 98 and has at least 3 more surgeries I could find on Google, arthroscopic or worse. Popping/clicking sensations that were bothering him were the cause of two of them according to articles I found. Maybe his knees were as much of a rationale behind his departure from the Lakers than his untenable attitude. Precautionary move although he seemingly did beat the odds by hanging around as long as he did. If that's the case, maybe D'Lo's tude issues, which weren't as bad as Nicky's, were a cover story for their real concerns about his knees. It's possible to draft someone without knowing the full extent of injuries. Sam Bowie lied to Portland about how strong his legs felt pre-Draft. He said he was feeling pain and strain on his shins while doing leg presses. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
^I know you like numbers, so here's something interesting to point out.
Russell's per-36 post-injury without Okafor: 125.2 ORTG, 110.6 DRTG, 27 points per 36 (52.4 TS%), 6.5 AST (6.0 TO, yikes), 3.7 RBD. 77 min.
With Okafor: 97.7 ORTG, 120.7 DRTG, 5.5 points per 36 (17.5% TS%), 4.7 assists (3.1 TO), 3.9 RBD, 46 min.
I'm interested to see how his extension negotiations go with Brooklyn this summer, especially if the post-injury struggles continue with not too many games left in the season to draw a meaningful conclusion either way. Possible they could get him at a discount and then he blows up later, making it a bargain for them, or maybe he bets on himself like Jules? At this rate, it's probably best for him to wait until summer 2019 when he'll have a full year to show improvement and there's more salary cap space around the league to use as leverage. His value's gotta be at an all-time low right now.
^I know you like numbers, so here's something interesting to point out.
Russell's per-36 post-injury without Okafor: 125.2 ORTG, 110.6 DRTG, 27 points per 36 (52.4 TS%), 6.5 AST (6.0 TO, yikes), 3.7 RBD. 77 min.
With Okafor: 97.7 ORTG, 120.7 DRTG, 5.5 points per 36 (17.5% TS%), 4.7 assists (3.1 TO), 3.9 RBD, 46 min.
Sample sizes are tiny (in fact, his post-injury sample in general is tiny) but it's something I noticed today. Russell actually subbed in for Dinwiddie in the 3rd and looked really good with the starters; Okafor came in and their momentum died lol.
But don't get me wrong. I've caught enough minutes to know that it's stupid to put all the blame on Okafor. Russell's jump shot has been MIA and that seriously hurts his effectiveness as an offensive player. He's had turnover and defense issues even when he was healthy.
I might have reservations of Magic and Rob about their reasoning behind the trade, but I do think we "won" the trade no question. I'm actually really interested in following Russell's career trajectory and glad I can do it without the Lakers being adversely affected lol. I wouldn't be surprised to see him light it up post-ASB and make me regret this comment, or just struggle for years and break out 5 years later.
Oh, and I'm not worried about his knees long term any more than Lonzo's right now. People said Curry would be injury prone and that never manifested. Too early to say for anyone.
The Okafor thing is a valid point. It's like he's a statistical black hole that sucks up all efficiency and productivity around him, and transfers it to the other team. It still shocks me that the Nets took a chance on him, and are apparently giving him minutes.
I have no doubt that Russell will be an effective player if he can stay healthy. How good he can be depends on his three point shot, which has been poor this year, even before the injury. The FT% this year has also been very poor, which is surprising. Even with the poor shooting, he was emerging as a big time scorer before the injury.
I wouldn't compare Russell's knees to Lonzo's. Russell has already had multiple invasive knee procedures. PRP injection last year. Arthroscopic surgury this year, with a very long recovery time. Lonzo has had what, 1 sprained ligament iirc? Then again I guess he had some knee issues in the summer league now that I think about it. Still though, no procedures. I agree though that it's something to watch for.
Curry's ankle problems resolved themselves, but knees are scarier than ankles. Bad knees have ruined MANY promising NBA careers. Hopefully Russell dodges this bullet, but it's definitely starting to become a big concern.
-3.1 RPM. That's #90 amongst the NBA's 99 point guards. His TS% is also under 50% for the season. His assist:TO ratio is terrible for a PG. He's been pretty bad this year. I know he's been dealing with the gimpy knees, but that in itself is a problem as well, because his knee problems probably aren't going anywhere.
6 TO's tonight in 17 minutes? Yikes.
During Laker game, he started off with turquoise shoes that matched the Barclays logo (it would seem) and then at halftime, he switched to a basic black/white pair. Wonder what that was about. Certain shoes hurting his knees? I can't help but think LA FO knew to a certainty that he had a problematic condition or that they were simply paranoid that he did and factored that into their decision as a "same difference" thing. Not too far back, LA dumped Big Drew right before his knees finally became so bad that they ended his career. Hard to believe they didn't have a more intimate knowledge of his ailments than Philly did, even though it was well-known he had multiple injuries/surgeries. Not that the Duh-wight experiment was a bowl of cherries, but we got rid of both D'Lo and Drew at the right moments, either way. I'm more inclined to think they were calculated moves rather than pure luck (a thing we've been short on since Chick died).
Consensus about Nick Van Exel's trade is that it was caused by "1-2-3, CANCUN!..." in the 98 playoffs and maybe the Del Harris stomping/pointing/yelling scene in his face on bench in the 97 playoffs. However, it was also public knowledge that he had knee problems. I remember reading as early as Summer 96 in a preview mag that he was short on cartilage and was nearly at a bone-on-bone state in at least one of his knees. That season, he began wearing a compression-style kneepad on his left knee. He had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee in Feb 98. Finally he's gone in June 98 and has at least 3 more surgeries I could find on Google, arthroscopic or worse. Popping/clicking sensations that were bothering him were the cause of two of them according to articles I found. Maybe his knees were as much of a rationale behind his departure from the Lakers than his untenable attitude. Precautionary move although he seemingly did beat the odds by hanging around as long as he did. If that's the case, maybe D'Lo's tude issues, which weren't as bad as Nicky's, were a cover story for their real concerns about his knees. It's possible to draft someone without knowing the full extent of injuries. Sam Bowie lied to Portland about how strong his legs felt pre-Draft. He said he was feeling pain and strain on his shins while doing leg presses.
yeah agreed. I think LA knew exactly what was going to happen to Bynum, and got out just in time. With Russell, I don't think it was a "his knees are gonna blow at any second, let's trade him quick," type calculation. But I think they recognized that there was legit case for concern, and that this played into the decision.
@dao that's a fair assessment. You're right, I don't think PRP & arthroscopic surgery compare to what Lonzo's dealing with... hopefully. Idk I'm a little concerned over Lonzo's latest but even so it's not the same as surgery.
re: Okafor, it's incredible how useless he is. Like defensively he's pushed over at the rim so easily and it feels like a miracle when he rebounds it. It's funny, I almost feel bad for him when I watch him. From consensus #1 to... someone who might not be in the NBA after this summer.
^I know you like numbers, so here's something interesting to point out.
Russell's per-36 post-injury without Okafor: 125.2 ORTG, 110.6 DRTG, 27 points per 36 (52.4 TS%), 6.5 AST (6.0 TO, yikes), 3.7 RBD. 77 min.
With Okafor: 97.7 ORTG, 120.7 DRTG, 5.5 points per 36 (17.5% TS%), 4.7 assists (3.1 TO), 3.9 RBD, 46 min.
Sample sizes are tiny (in fact, his post-injury sample in general is tiny) but it's something I noticed today. Russell actually subbed in for Dinwiddie in the 3rd and looked really good with the starters; Okafor came in and their momentum died lol.
But don't get me wrong. I've caught enough minutes to know that it's stupid to put all the blame on Okafor. Russell's jump shot has been MIA and that seriously hurts his effectiveness as an offensive player. He's had turnover and defense issues even when he was healthy.
I might have reservations of Magic and Rob about their reasoning behind the trade, but I do think we "won" the trade no question. I'm actually really interested in following Russell's career trajectory and glad I can do it without the Lakers being adversely affected lol. I wouldn't be surprised to see him light it up post-ASB and make me regret this comment, or just struggle for years and break out 5 years later.
Oh, and I'm not worried about his knees long term any more than Lonzo's right now. People said Curry would be injury prone and that never manifested. Too early to say for anyone.
The Okafor thing is a valid point. It's like he's a statistical black hole that sucks up all efficiency and productivity around him, and transfers it to the other team. It still shocks me that the Nets took a chance on him, and are apparently giving him minutes.
Okafor's contract expires this summer. And the 76ers sent a highish second and Stauskas in the trade, and Nets only had to send a player in Trevor Booker who was walking this summer anyway. They are trying to work their development magic on him but not surprised if they cut bait this summer
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:33 am Post subject:
tox wrote:
^I know you like numbers, so here's something interesting to point out.
Russell's per-36 post-injury without Okafor: 125.2 ORTG, 110.6 DRTG, 27 points per 36 (52.4 TS%), 6.5 AST (6.0 TO, yikes), 3.7 RBD. 77 min.
With Okafor: 97.7 ORTG, 120.7 DRTG, 5.5 points per 36 (17.5% TS%), 4.7 assists (3.1 TO), 3.9 RBD, 46 min.
Sample sizes are tiny (in fact, his post-injury sample in general is tiny) but it's something I noticed today. Russell actually subbed in for Dinwiddie in the 3rd and looked really good with the starters; Okafor came in and their momentum died lol.
But don't get me wrong. I've caught enough minutes to know that it's stupid to put all the blame on Okafor. Russell's jump shot has been MIA and that seriously hurts his effectiveness as an offensive player. He's had turnover and defense issues even when he was healthy.
I might have reservations of Magic and Rob about their reasoning behind the trade, but I do think we "won" the trade no question. I'm actually really interested in following Russell's career trajectory and glad I can do it without the Lakers being adversely affected lol. I wouldn't be surprised to see him light it up post-ASB and make me regret this comment, or just struggle for years and break out 5 years later.
Oh, and I'm not worried about his knees long term any more than Lonzo's right now. People said Curry would be injury prone and that never manifested. Too early to say for anyone.
@dao that's a fair assessment. You're right, I don't think PRP & arthroscopic surgery compare to what Lonzo's dealing with... hopefully. Idk I'm a little concerned over Lonzo's latest but even so it's not the same as surgery.
re: Okafor, it's incredible how useless he is. Like defensively he's pushed over at the rim so easily and it feels like a miracle when he rebounds it. It's funny, I almost feel bad for him when I watch him. From consensus #1 to... someone who might not be in the NBA after this summer.
I aint never said this outloud cuz I aint wanna put that energy into the world
but I've always been scared of the way lonzo sets up for his shot and how/if that would affect his knees
im all for the hop into the shot action, but when he hops into the shot it looks too over bendy in the kneeular region if that makes sense
but they bofe gone play 15 years of bassa bawl greatness, and thats a FACT JACK
Last edited by anpherknee on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total
the fact that im in secured transactions this semester just made me think of the process of attachment and perfection as it pertains to this knee transaction and it had me giggling in this class like an idiot
I wonder how much I could get from dlo if he defaults on the knee loan
^I know you like numbers, so here's something interesting to point out.
Russell's per-36 post-injury without Okafor: 125.2 ORTG, 110.6 DRTG, 27 points per 36 (52.4 TS%), 6.5 AST (6.0 TO, yikes), 3.7 RBD. 77 min.
With Okafor: 97.7 ORTG, 120.7 DRTG, 5.5 points per 36 (17.5% TS%), 4.7 assists (3.1 TO), 3.9 RBD, 46 min.
That's (bleep) wild.
Yeah, to me the individual stats aren't nearly as interesting. It really just shows that Russell's individual scoring is worse with Okafor. I suspect a lot of that is noise (I mean obviously, 17.5% TS% lol) but ironically Russell's biggest scoring strength post-injury has been getting to the hoop. Okafor precludes that with his style.
But the on/off stats are pretty freakin compelling. +15 Net Rating vs -23 Net Rating, even in small min, suggests a trend.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
anpherknee, give DLO your knee.
[resists urge to change user's screen name to "anpher"] _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
@dao that's a fair assessment. You're right, I don't think PRP & arthroscopic surgery compare to what Lonzo's dealing with... hopefully. Idk I'm a little concerned over Lonzo's latest but even so it's not the same as surgery.
re: Okafor, it's incredible how useless he is. Like defensively he's pushed over at the rim so easily and it feels like a miracle when he rebounds it. It's funny, I almost feel bad for him when I watch him. From consensus #1 to... someone who might not be in the NBA after this summer.
Greg Monroe is the cautionary tale for any team looking at Okafor. There was a pretty big contingent that wanted Monroe too . _________________ KOBE
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35813 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:17 pm Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
tox wrote:
@dao that's a fair assessment. You're right, I don't think PRP & arthroscopic surgery compare to what Lonzo's dealing with... hopefully. Idk I'm a little concerned over Lonzo's latest but even so it's not the same as surgery.
re: Okafor, it's incredible how useless he is. Like defensively he's pushed over at the rim so easily and it feels like a miracle when he rebounds it. It's funny, I almost feel bad for him when I watch him. From consensus #1 to... someone who might not be in the NBA after this summer.
Greg Monroe is the cautionary tale for any team looking at Okafor. There was a pretty big contingent that wanted Monroe too .
What's the story with Monroe? He and Drummond were supposed to be the next twin towers. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
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