Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

chantruong wrote:
If we get Lebron and PG that will put a big dent in Philly's plans. There are no other FAs worth getting in 2018. Not sure if Kawahi, Butler or Klay will be available in 2019. They have two potential superstars but I believe they are 1 difference maker FA from championship contention. Eventually they have to pay their guys and cap themselves out. I don't think they can outbid Boston for AD or any other trade. Maybe John Wall becomes available?

Minnesota will be a middle of the pack playoff team for years to come. They got too impatient imo but I can understand that since they haven't been in the playoffs for 14 years.

I like our cap position moving forward, but I wish we could get a true stud player in the draft. Minn and Philly already have theirs.

Philly and Minn have the best young talent but,
Its between us and Boston for championships



I'm not sure why people here assume we are in the hunt for Lebron but the 76ers aren't.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
But why are we talking about a 28 and 33 year old in a thread that is discussing "Young cores?"


because part of the value of a young core situation is the ability to attract established superstars.



To a degree the whole "young core" thing seems artificial.

23-year-old Randle and 22-year-old Hart and Kuza are a "young core" but 25-year-old Kyrie Irving isn't. That seems arbitrary to me.

It also seems weird to consider rookies like Kuz and Hart as a "Young core" on equal footer with a proven all-star like Towns.

Ultimately, I am not sure if free agents really care about "young cores"; they care about the talent will surround them for the next few years.

The "young core" thing seems more like an artifice to give sportswriters something to write about and fans something talk about.


irving is 1 month from 26 so borderline left out.
there is a listing for older core so those are not ignored.
one way to distinguish is that they are on their rookie contracts that allow addition of max fa's, though embiid and wiggin were left in - but borderline
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
chantruong wrote:
If we get Lebron and PG that will put a big dent in Philly's plans. There are no other FAs worth getting in 2018. Not sure if Kawahi, Butler or Klay will be available in 2019. They have two potential superstars but I believe they are 1 difference maker FA from championship contention. Eventually they have to pay their guys and cap themselves out. I don't think they can outbid Boston for AD or any other trade. Maybe John Wall becomes available?

Minnesota will be a middle of the pack playoff team for years to come. They got too impatient imo but I can understand that since they haven't been in the playoffs for 14 years.

I like our cap position moving forward, but I wish we could get a true stud player in the draft. Minn and Philly already have theirs.

Philly and Minn have the best young talent but,
Its between us and Boston for championships



I'm not sure why people here assume we are in the hunt for Lebron but the 76ers aren't.


i am sure 76ers are in.
however it is the max fa that chooses.
if you were lebron, would you choose lakers, 76ers or rockets?
the analysis shows why he should choose lakers.
76ers - embiid - too big a risk.
rockets - do not have enough if they added lebron.
other young cores not in play due to cap
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

I've seen the "young core" debate be used selectively. I've seen hilarious age cutoffs so that article writers could squeeze in a player; I've seen under 26, 25, 24, 23, 22 core articles.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
why wouldn't you count denver? jokic, harris, and murray are as good as any young players around

No love for Trey Lyles, the man who wasn't Mitchell.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject:

Fultz... support player?

read the news or something... lol
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
why wouldn't you count denver? jokic, harris, and murray are as good as any young players around


they are very good players, but I personally consider all 3 overrated. I am aware many, if not most disagree with me. All 3 appear to be solid supporting players....but are spoke about as future elite players. I disagree.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
We don't have 2 max players so it's a bit premature/fruitless to compare non-young core pieces, while the Wolves factually have 2 all stars.


everything is premature.
but put yourself into the max FA's shoes.

PG options:
1. stay in OKC - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years
2. celtics/wolves - not options due to cap
3. 76ers - would not trust Embiid staying healthy in next 4 years
4. lakers - home, better than wolves with just PG, at least as good as celtics with 2 max fa, at least as good as 76ers with just PG
5. rockets - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years with just Harden and then everything else - no Paul, no Lebron
--> PG SHOULD go to Lakers based on winning over next 4 years

Lebron - and he will realize PG SHOULD go to LA
1. stay in Cavs - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years
2. 76ers - would not trust Embiid staying healthy in next 4 years. Also as PG-BI-Ball-Kuz-Randle as least as good as Simmons-Embiid-Saric.
3. celtics/wolves not options due to cap
4. Rockets - Harden-Lebron-and piece not as competitive as PG-Lebron-BI-Ball-Randle-Kuz
5. Lakers as least as competitive as all other options (unless he goes to Warriors as ring chaser). LA life/residence is plus.


Logically, without setbacks and injuries, Lakers should get BOTH PG and Lebron

I think Lebron's best choice is the Rockets. Even if he comes with PG, Ball, Kuzma and Ingram will not be ready next season to give Lebron the help he needs to win a title now. It's rare for guys in their early 20s to deliver under pressure in their first playoff or championship experience. CP3 is proven, plus he's clutch. Lebron needs a closer next to him like Wade or Irving to win titles.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject:

Minnesota - I would take Ingram/Ball over KAT/Wiggins, making no mention of Ingram/Ball/Hart/Kuzma/Randle > KAT/Wiggins/Dieng.

Philadelphia - I think, assuming health, Simmons/Embiid > Ingram/Ball, but, for Embiid, health is a real issue. Still, if you consider our young core Ingram/Ball/Hart/Randle/Kuzma, I take that over Simmons/Embiid/Saric/Fultz/Covington given Embiid's health concerns and the possibility that Fultz may never amount to anything.

Phoenix - Ingram/Ball/Hart/Kuzma/Randle >>> Booker/Chriss/Bender/Warren/Jackson.

Chicago - Ingram/Ball/Hart/Kuzma/Randle >>> Portis/Markennen/Lavine/Dunn

Boston - Ingram/Ball/Hart/Kuzma/Randle > Brown/Tatum/Smart/Rozier

I think we have the best young core in the league, and that's after losing Nance and Clarkson. We hit it out of the park this last draft. However, as one can see with Boston and Minnesota, the core is relatively meaningless unless they either/both (a) develop and/or (b) find the opportunity to grow next to legit stars (like Irving, Horford, and Butler).

If we can put together a starting lineup of Ball/PG/Ingram/Lebron/Randle with Hart, Bryant and Kuzma off the bench next season, I think we're the second best team in the league.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
We don't have 2 max players so it's a bit premature/fruitless to compare non-young core pieces, while the Wolves factually have 2 all stars.


everything is premature.
but put yourself into the max FA's shoes.

PG options:
1. stay in OKC - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years
2. celtics/wolves - not options due to cap
3. 76ers - would not trust Embiid staying healthy in next 4 years
4. lakers - home, better than wolves with just PG, at least as good as celtics with 2 max fa, at least as good as 76ers with just PG
5. rockets - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years with just Harden and then everything else - no Paul, no Lebron
--> PG SHOULD go to Lakers based on winning over next 4 years

Lebron - and he will realize PG SHOULD go to LA
1. stay in Cavs - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years
2. 76ers - would not trust Embiid staying healthy in next 4 years. Also as PG-BI-Ball-Kuz-Randle as least as good as Simmons-Embiid-Saric.
3. celtics/wolves not options due to cap
4. Rockets - Harden-Lebron-and piece not as competitive as PG-Lebron-BI-Ball-Randle-Kuz
5. Lakers as least as competitive as all other options (unless he goes to Warriors as ring chaser). LA life/residence is plus.


Logically, without setbacks and injuries, Lakers should get BOTH PG and Lebron

I think Lebron's best choice is the Rockets. Even if he comes with PG, Ball, Kuzma and Ingram will not be ready next season to give Lebron the help he needs to win a title now. It's rare for guys in their early 20s to deliver under pressure in their first playoff or championship experience. CP3 is proven, plus he's clutch. Lebron needs a closer next to him like Wade or Irving to win titles.


if rockets sign lebron, they lose cp3 and their center.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject:

Andrew Sharp 10 worst teams (technically Lakers aren't there) and their young core ranked:

Quote:
1. Lakers (23-32)

Technically speaking, the Lakers are a half-game ahead of the Hornets and not one of the 10 worst teams in the NBA. I'm including them in this discussion because they have the frenetic spirit of a bottom ten team, and they'll probably finish the year somewhere in that group. And in that case ... the Lakers clearly have the brightest future of any team on this list. Between the progress of Brandon Ingram, rock solid draft picks (Kuzma, Lonzo, Josh Hart), and massive amounts of cap space this summer, this is getting real.





Generic optimism of the past few seasons is beginning to give way to real intrigue about the future here. Do they stick with the young core? Will LeBron show up? What about a trade? It's too early to say where this goes next, but each of the options is exciting for different reasons. And all of this—especially L.A. landing a top three pick in three consecutive years in which its first round pick was top-five or top-three protected—is a reminder that life is not fair and the Lakers are the closest thing the NBA has to the Illuminati. That's the real reason they should be excluded this list.


https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/14/future-nba-power-rankings-knicks-lakers-bulls

Granted this doesn't include young cores who are already in the playoffs or not 10 worst record-wise.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject:

Interesting topic! Time really flies
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Andrew Sharp 10 worst teams (technically Lakers aren't there) and their young core ranked:

Quote:
1. Lakers (23-32)

Technically speaking, the Lakers are a half-game ahead of the Hornets and not one of the 10 worst teams in the NBA. I'm including them in this discussion because they have the frenetic spirit of a bottom ten team, and they'll probably finish the year somewhere in that group. And in that case ... the Lakers clearly have the brightest future of any team on this list. Between the progress of Brandon Ingram, rock solid draft picks (Kuzma, Lonzo, Josh Hart), and massive amounts of cap space this summer, this is getting real.





Generic optimism of the past few seasons is beginning to give way to real intrigue about the future here. Do they stick with the young core? Will LeBron show up? What about a trade? It's too early to say where this goes next, but each of the options is exciting for different reasons. And all of this—especially L.A. landing a top three pick in three consecutive years in which its first round pick was top-five or top-three protected—is a reminder that life is not fair and the Lakers are the closest thing the NBA has to the Illuminati. That's the real reason they should be excluded this list.


https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/14/future-nba-power-rankings-knicks-lakers-bulls

Granted this doesn't include young cores who are already in the playoffs or not 10 worst record-wise.



lol, they are already saying it is not fair
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
TWolves also actually have 2 all stars while we are hoping to sign 2 all star FAs.

And you're comparing young cores, no?


What? Lakers have two Allstars too Lopez and Thomas
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
chantruong wrote:
If we get Lebron and PG that will put a big dent in Philly's plans. There are no other FAs worth getting in 2018. Not sure if Kawahi, Butler or Klay will be available in 2019. They have two potential superstars but I believe they are 1 difference maker FA from championship contention. Eventually they have to pay their guys and cap themselves out. I don't think they can outbid Boston for AD or any other trade. Maybe John Wall becomes available?

Minnesota will be a middle of the pack playoff team for years to come. They got too impatient imo but I can understand that since they haven't been in the playoffs for 14 years.

I like our cap position moving forward, but I wish we could get a true stud player in the draft. Minn and Philly already have theirs.

Philly and Minn have the best young talent but,
Its between us and Boston for championships



I'm not sure why people here assume we are in the hunt for Lebron but the 76ers aren't.
well because they already have lebron. his name is ben simmons. exact same game. one guy has a jumper and a few rings now. the other doesnt have those two things.

but other than that, they are the exact same guy.



If you want to talk about being redundant. go on ahead philly and get bron. and watch them get to the finals cause the east sucks. and still lose easily to the warriors. cause at the end of the day. somebody gotsta hit a jumper. and it can't be your center all the time either.

and if they did get bron. they will run ben simmons off the moment he gets a chance to leave he will. reason being. he always wanted to run point and play point forward. they dont have a real point over there so his fit was perfect for him and them. you add bron...the ultimate point forward and there goes ben simmons job. now he has to hang around the paint and bang like embid. but he doesnt want to bang with grown men. it was cute in college with smaller/not as strong players and not 82 games a year. but not in the nba. he can't shoot well enough yet to just hang around the perimeter and chuck. so thats out too. just pack the paint and dare them to shoot. eventually they will take those shots and start missing or force it and collect charges and turnovers.
ben simmons aint trying to be anyone's jj reddick.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

Tiger likes it!

Tiger positive on Lakers' future. Diehard Laker fan Tiger Woods thinks the team is moving in all the right directions and looks forward to the upcoming seasons.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
But why are we talking about a 28 and 33 year old in a thread that is discussing "Young cores?"


because part of the value of a young core situation is the ability to attract established superstars.



To a degree the whole "young core" thing seems artificial.

23-year-old Randle and 22-year-old Hart and Kuza are a "young core" but 25-year-old Kyrie Irving isn't. That seems arbitrary to me.

It also seems weird to consider rookies like Kuz and Hart as a "Young core" on equal footer with a proven all-star like Towns.

Ultimately, I am not sure if free agents really care about "young cores"; they care about the talent will surround them for the next few years.

The "young core" thing seems more like an artifice to give sportswriters something to write about and fans something talk about.


irving is 1 month from 26 so borderline left out.
there is a listing for older core so those are not ignored.
one way to distinguish is that they are on their rookie contracts that allow addition of max fa's, though embiid and wiggin were left in - but borderline



Well, you are arbitrarily defining "young core" as 25 and under, and saying Irving doesn't make it because he's 25 and 11 months. Personally, I would consider Irving as much of Boston's "young core" as anyone else.

The rookie contract is a little weird too. By that definition Randle is part of "the young core" if he takes the qualifying offer next year because he doesn't get a good offer, but he's not part of "the young core" if someone offers him a contract that we match.

I mean, I get that people like labels. I just think the label "young core" is pretty meaningless in terms of indicating much about a team or its players.


cal1piggy wrote:
because part of the value of a young core situation is the ability to attract established superstars.


I don't think superstars give a crap about "young cores." They care about the amount of talent around them. Lebron or George won't really care if their teammates are 23 and 24 vs. 26 and 27. I also think superstars prefer established talent vs. young players with potential because potential doesn't always pan out.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
But why are we talking about a 28 and 33 year old in a thread that is discussing "Young cores?"


because part of the value of a young core situation is the ability to attract established superstars.



To a degree the whole "young core" thing seems artificial.

23-year-old Randle and 22-year-old Hart and Kuza are a "young core" but 25-year-old Kyrie Irving isn't. That seems arbitrary to me.

It also seems weird to consider rookies like Kuz and Hart as a "Young core" on equal footer with a proven all-star like Towns.

Ultimately, I am not sure if free agents really care about "young cores"; they care about the talent will surround them for the next few years.

The "young core" thing seems more like an artifice to give sportswriters something to write about and fans something talk about.


irving is 1 month from 26 so borderline left out.
there is a listing for older core so those are not ignored.
one way to distinguish is that they are on their rookie contracts that allow addition of max fa's, though embiid and wiggin were left in - but borderline



Well, you are arbitrarily defining "young core" as 25 and under, and saying Irving doesn't make it because he's 25 and 11 months. Personally, I would consider Irving as much of Boston's "young core" as anyone else.

The rookie contract is a little weird too. By that definition Randle is part of "the young core" if he takes the qualifying offer next year because he doesn't get a good offer, but he's not part of "the young core" if someone offers him a contract that we match.

I mean, I get that people like labels. I just think the label "young core" is pretty meaningless in terms of indicating much about a team or its players.


cal1piggy wrote:
because part of the value of a young core situation is the ability to attract established superstars.


I don't think superstars give a crap about "young cores." They care about the amount of talent around them. Lebron or George won't really care if their teammates are 23 and 24 vs. 26 and 27. I also think superstars prefer established talent vs. young players with potential because potential doesn't always pan out.



i think the key is to combine:
1. as many young promising players as possible in their rookie contracts by tanking a few years
2. bring in 2-3 max FAs while the cap space is plentiful.

yes julius would not count soon when he gets his next contract. that is what is amazing about what the FO did is they may have managed to do 2 max + julius.

max FAs would care when it is obvious those young players already contributing in major way - remember when lbj rejoined cavs when irving is only budding star while bring in k love? irving was very good after his 3rd season but no superstar averaging 20.8 ppg while shooting 35.8% 3p% (though 2 seasons before were higher at 39.9% and 39.1%). i would take bi/ball/kuz/julius right now slightly over love/irving in 2015 - 4 good players with potential over 2 proven very good players.

remember what matters to lebron is where the core would be by post-season next season. so the core has another regular season to grow.

right now:
1. ingram is average 16 per game already and his 3p% is now 39% 2/3 of the way into his 2nd season. can easily see bi at 17ppg with >37% 3p% by the end of the season. how close is bi at the end of his 2nd season to irving at the end of his 3rd season.
2. ball's passing is pretty good right now and his 3p% has picked up also.
3. kuz's 3p looks good and defense should improve after a season.
4. hart can play right now.
5. julius is a 20ppg player right now given a reasonable amount of playing time (30 min). julius can have arguably close to love's impact right now.
6. team already took warriors/rockets to OT or really close in the 4th quarter. granted, warrriors/rockets may not have brought their A game.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

I don't think you can say the current Lakers have a better core than Sixers or Boston. They both have at least two established stars in Simmons, Irving, Embid, and Hayward. They also have an assortment of picks coming to them. Did people forget Boston is mostly likely getting our pick this year?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
remember when lbj rejoined cavs when irving is only budding star.



Irving was already a two-time all-star and all-star game MVP when lebron rejoined the cavs. His stardom had already budded.

I do remember that Lebron insisted they trade the last two overall #1 picks for a proven all-NBA player.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
remember when lbj rejoined cavs when irving is only budding star.



Irving was already a two-time all-star and all-star game MVP when lebron rejoined the cavs. His stardom had already budded.

I do remember that Lebron insisted they trade the last two overall #1 picks for a proven all-NBA player.


yes lbj insisted in trading the rookie #1 pick and anthony bennett. the difference is the lakers young core are able to contribute now. by the post season of the next season - bi would have had 3 seasons, ball 2 seasons, julius 4 seasons, kuz 2 seasons.

Lets take a look at the 2014 eastern conf all star voting
1. Dwyane Wade 929,542
2. Kyrie Irving 860,221
3. John Wall 393,129
4. Derrick Rose 359,546
5. Ray Allen 250,909


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:

yes lbj insisted in trading the rookie #1 pick and anthony bennett. the difference is the lakers young core are able to contribute now. by the post season of the next season - bi would have had 3 seasons, ball 2 seasons, julius 4 seasons, juz 2 seasons.


I get it -- you think the Lakers young players are The Next Big Thing and you think Lebron shares your opinion. Time will tell about both of your guesses.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:

yes lbj insisted in trading the rookie #1 pick and anthony bennett. the difference is the lakers young core are able to contribute now. by the post season of the next season - bi would have had 3 seasons, ball 2 seasons, julius 4 seasons, juz 2 seasons.


I get it -- you think the Lakers young players are The Next Big Thing and you think Lebron shares your opinion. Time will tell about both of your guesses.


IKR?! It’s like he’s some kind of Laker fan or something... how dare he assume the playoffs next year! Get him outta here.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:

yes lbj insisted in trading the rookie #1 pick and anthony bennett. the difference is the lakers young core are able to contribute now. by the post season of the next season - bi would have had 3 seasons, ball 2 seasons, julius 4 seasons, juz 2 seasons.


I get it -- you think the Lakers young players are The Next Big Thing and you think Lebron shares your opinion. Time will tell about both of your guesses.


i know the lakers core right now is significantly better than the celtics core of brown/smart/tatum/???

look where they are with kyrie and horford (hayward?)

lbj and pg should darn well know lbj/pg/lakers core > kyrie/horford/celtics core

actually what should matter to lbj is which team has the best chance to beat warriors.

i would say lbj/pg/lakers core has a better chance than rockets/celtics.
the only team with a better shoot could be lbj/simmons/embiid/saric/covington.
however embiid of questionable health is a big risk.


Last edited by cal1piggy on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject:

€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:

yes lbj insisted in trading the rookie #1 pick and anthony bennett. the difference is the lakers young core are able to contribute now. by the post season of the next season - bi would have had 3 seasons, ball 2 seasons, julius 4 seasons, juz 2 seasons.


I get it -- you think the Lakers young players are The Next Big Thing and you think Lebron shares your opinion. Time will tell about both of your guesses.


IKR?! It’s like he’s some kind of Laker fan or something... how dare he assume the playoffs next year! Get him outta here.



oh, bad laker fan
bad bad laker fan
bad bad bad laker fan
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