Rare single-game footage of George Mikan in or close to his prime vs the Pistons in 1952
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject:

My Can!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
Sorry but I am not that impressed. He only dribbles with his right hand and looks at the ball when he dribbles. Everyone guarding him is slow and shorter.

I doubt he is better than Mychal Thompson.

He would be pedestrian in today's NBA.


..... .... he'd be lucky to get a D1 scholarship

This vid shouldn't be about comparing skills to denigrate an era, though.. it's more just interesting..
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
Sorry but I am not that impressed. He only dribbles with his right hand and looks at the ball when he dribbles. Everyone guarding him is slow and shorter.

I doubt he is better than Mychal Thompson.

He would be pedestrian in today's NBA.

Dribbling at all at that size - with his level of confidence - is impressive in my opinion especially on the run and with defenders coming at him. Especially considering nobody that height even today can dribble without the modern style of ignoring carrying rules just look at Kevin Durant and Giannis - and imagine them having to dribble on the top of the ball only. I like his skill and physical play style as well and he looks very laterally mobile to me. Dunno how heíd do exactly but I do know just eyeing him he looks remarkably talented considering how long ago he played and I mean that in that timeless kind of way - like talent is talent he seems like a stick out to me. Bout the only thing he doesnít have going for him in limited film is a vertical leap. But plenty of bigs donít have that anyways and they donít display many of the other things heís at least doing greatly back in the 50ís such as that confidence with the ball on the run or how he thrives on making plays through contact
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for posting OP.

"Lone Wolf"

Coach's head would have exploded if he had any of our recent "hero ball" (as it's called by some) players.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject:

He got fouled every time he toughed the ball. Wow...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
dantheman9758 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Thank god for the advancements in all aspects of bball since these days. I couldn't imagine having to watch this style of ball today.

Individually, he plays pretty well if you ask me - ambidextrous, aggressive turning in or boxing out/chasing rebounds, defends the paint - roams to the high post or low - on either side, can pass. And he's particularly mobile in transition for a center. Isn't that kind of what you'd want out of a center? Or do you just prefer they step aside and catch backdoor lobs and let the guards and forwards handle the offense? About the only thing he doesn't do well is jump but even today truthfully there's still a lot of bigs that can't jump. The rest of his game fits in well with what you'd expect a good modern center to be capable - unless stretching the floor is key for how you like a modern center to play which some teams do like.


I agree, Mikan looked good in those clips compared to everyone else no doubt. Overall though the game was played at such a putrid pace and style that it's no wonder the league almost died before new rule changes and 3 pt line were implemented. I'm talking frome a pure entertainment stand point the best era's were the 80s run n gun showtime era and current day era of pace and space.


Your frame of reference is 2018. Would you have had issues with the style of play in the late 1950s when you had nothing else to compare it to? 80s games look ridiculous to me now when I compare to contemporary games, but the childhood me remembers Showtime like it was the most amazing thing that ever existed. I imagine kids in the 50s and early 60s would have been equally as taken with the game back then. In fact, if they weren't, we wouldn't have NBA basketball today.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
That was interesting. The main things I noticed were:

1. Mikan is huge compared to everyone else. He looks like a college player going against junior high students. Most of his success, at least from this video, seems to be related to his being too big for anyone to move, get around, or reach his shot, even though he has a low release point.

2. His ball handling skills are pretty good for his size.

3. It doesn't look like anyone on the court ever jumps more than two inches off the ground.

4. I had no idea Mikan shot free throws underhanded.


I wish we had more than just a highlight reel. Mikan shot .385 that year, which sounds awful until you consider that the league average was .367. There was no shot clock. The lane had just been widened from six feet to twelve feet. I suspect that the game would look fairly strange to modern fans.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
That was interesting. The main things I noticed were:

1. Mikan is huge compared to everyone else. He looks like a college player going against junior high students. Most of his success, at least from this video, seems to be related to his being too big for anyone to move, get around, or reach his shot, even though he has a low release point.

2. His ball handling skills are pretty good for his size.

3. It doesn't look like anyone on the court ever jumps more than two inches off the ground.

4. I had no idea Mikan shot free throws underhanded.


I wish we had more than just a highlight reel. Mikan shot .385 that year, which sounds awful until you consider that the league average was .367. There was no shot clock. The lane had just been widened from six feet to twelve feet. I suspect that the game would look fairly strange to modern fans.


Yeah it's a short highlight film so it only tells you so much
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject:

I don't read the lounge section often anymore but I check every now and then to see if you or our other superfans drop some real magic like this.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:42 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
dantheman9758 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Thank god for the advancements in all aspects of bball since these days. I couldn't imagine having to watch this style of ball today.

Individually, he plays pretty well if you ask me - ambidextrous, aggressive turning in or boxing out/chasing rebounds, defends the paint - roams to the high post or low - on either side, can pass. And he's particularly mobile in transition for a center. Isn't that kind of what you'd want out of a center? Or do you just prefer they step aside and catch backdoor lobs and let the guards and forwards handle the offense? About the only thing he doesn't do well is jump but even today truthfully there's still a lot of bigs that can't jump. The rest of his game fits in well with what you'd expect a good modern center to be capable - unless stretching the floor is key for how you like a modern center to play which some teams do like.


I agree, Mikan looked good in those clips compared to everyone else no doubt. Overall though the game was played at such a putrid pace and style that it's no wonder the league almost died before new rule changes and 3 pt line were implemented. I'm talking frome a pure entertainment stand point the best era's were the 80s run n gun showtime era and current day era of pace and space.


Also, Jerry West always said that clips from back in the day look weird because conduction rules were so strict. Try dribbling the ball with just your palms and see how it goes. These guys had skill, and would obviously play like today if they had the same rules.

So, has basketball evolved? Of course, but not as much as people make it seem. There's obviously less defense and more style-friendly rules nowadays.

You put a guy like Mikan, West, Baylor, Wilt or someone like that in today's NBA and they'd dominate for sure.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
dantheman9758 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Thank god for the advancements in all aspects of bball since these days. I couldn't imagine having to watch this style of ball today.

Individually, he plays pretty well if you ask me - ambidextrous, aggressive turning in or boxing out/chasing rebounds, defends the paint - roams to the high post or low - on either side, can pass. And he's particularly mobile in transition for a center. Isn't that kind of what you'd want out of a center? Or do you just prefer they step aside and catch backdoor lobs and let the guards and forwards handle the offense? About the only thing he doesn't do well is jump but even today truthfully there's still a lot of bigs that can't jump. The rest of his game fits in well with what you'd expect a good modern center to be capable - unless stretching the floor is key for how you like a modern center to play which some teams do like.


I agree, Mikan looked good in those clips compared to everyone else no doubt. Overall though the game was played at such a putrid pace and style that it's no wonder the league almost died before new rule changes and 3 pt line were implemented. I'm talking frome a pure entertainment stand point the best era's were the 80s run n gun showtime era and current day era of pace and space.


Also, Jerry West always said that clips from back in the day look weird because conduction rules were so strict. Try dribbling the ball with just your palms and see how it goes. These guys had skill, and would obviously play like today if they had the same rules.

So, has basketball evolved? Of course, but not as much as people make it seem. There's obviously less defense and more style-friendly rules nowadays.

You put a guy like Mikan, West, Baylor, Wilt or someone like that in today's NBA and they'd dominate for sure.

oh yea, the dribbling rules are huge. basically, if you dribble like today's nba back then, just about every other dribble would be considered a travel or carry.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
He would have prevented that Mavs Scrubs Dunk Contest from happening to us last weekend.


No he wouldnít.

He played in an era against a bunch of unathletic white guys
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
Sorry but I am not that impressed. He only dribbles with his right hand and looks at the ball when he dribbles. Everyone guarding him is slow and shorter.

I doubt he is better than Mychal Thompson.

He would be pedestrian in today's NBA.


All these statements are a fact.
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dantheman9758
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject:

BizLA wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
He would have prevented that Mavs Scrubs Dunk Contest from happening to us last weekend.


No he wouldnít.

He played in an era against a bunch of unathletic white guys

Ah the era hey played in makes him bad why didn't I think of that. I was here wasting my time eyeing some nuanced basketball things on film that he appeared to be physically and mentally capable of doing when what I should have been doing was ignoring all that because I totally forgot he played in an era of unathletic white guys. We need not even watch film. Nothing to take away from it, nothing we could ever learn about Mikan or be impressed about - cause era. Got it.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Sorry but I am not that impressed. He only dribbles with his right hand and looks at the ball when he dribbles. Everyone guarding him is slow and shorter.

I doubt he is better than Mychal Thompson.

He would be pedestrian in today's NBA.


Lol, any Div I team right now could travel back in time and have an undefeated season in Mikans days. Babe Ruth never saw a fastball above 85 MPH, Mike Tyson would have destroyed Ali 10/10 times in their primes. Itís not about how heíd play in the current NBA with his skills, itís how much better he is than people around him.

Michael Jordan would struggle to be a top 5 player in todays league if you just transported him into 2018....and Westbrook would be the GOAT if you transported him back to the 80ís. Itís about context brotha...


Walter Johnson could throw over 100mph.

But I agree with the point you're making 46+2. It's all about who stood out in their era compared to those around them. Can't time travel. At least not yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DantheMan. I've seen so little footage of Mikan, interesting to see him play.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Sorry but I am not that impressed. He only dribbles with his right hand and looks at the ball when he dribbles. Everyone guarding him is slow and shorter.

I doubt he is better than Mychal Thompson.

He would be pedestrian in today's NBA.


Lol, any Div I team right now could travel back in time and have an undefeated season in Mikans days. Babe Ruth never saw a fastball above 85 MPH, Mike Tyson would have destroyed Ali 10/10 times in their primes. Itís not about how heíd play in the current NBA with his skills, itís how much better he is than people around him.

Michael Jordan would struggle to be a top 5 player in todays league if you just transported him into 2018....and Westbrook would be the GOAT if you transported him back to the 80ís. Itís about context brotha...


Ali would have smoked Tyson.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:21 am    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Sorry but I am not that impressed. He only dribbles with his right hand and looks at the ball when he dribbles. Everyone guarding him is slow and shorter.

I doubt he is better than Mychal Thompson.

He would be pedestrian in today's NBA.


Lol, any Div I team right now could travel back in time and have an undefeated season in Mikans days. Babe Ruth never saw a fastball above 85 MPH, Mike Tyson would have destroyed Ali 10/10 times in their primes. Itís not about how heíd play in the current NBA with his skills, itís how much better he is than people around him.

Michael Jordan would struggle to be a top 5 player in todays league if you just transported him into 2018....and Westbrook would be the GOAT if you transported him back to the 80ís. Itís about context brotha...


Ali would have smoked Tyson.


I get where he's going, but it's the standard reply from a younger generation that touts their era as cutting edge and noncomparable.

No way Tyson could have handled Ali. MJ is not struggling to be a top 5 player in any era. C'mon man.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Rare single-game footage of George Mikan in or close to his prime vs the Pistons in 1952

dantheman9758 wrote:
https://youtu.be/VGYKyRmX4q4

To my knowledge this is the closest look we can ever have to George Mikan playing the majority of an NBA game during, or near his prime. Mikan scored 32 points this game, 20 of which are available from a 31 minute silent coaches film. The next closest thing we've got is a 1954 Finals game piece but that particular film is less than half of the game where as this Pistons game is about 2/3rds of one, and Mikan is at the end of his career in the Finals game and doesn't dominate the way he used to. In this 1952 Pistons game he goes up against 6-11 Charlie Share and can be seen blocking numerous shots to give an idea how he dominated on both ends. Also, note his ball handling confidence - he's a better ball handler than most bigs. He's got a good variety of shots including a floater in transition. And he moves his bulk around extremely well, laterally and in transition, in my opinion especially considering at that stage of his career he was something like 270lbs. Hope you guys enjoy.


This is cool to see, thanks. Mikan seemed pretty fluid with his shot and was pretty nimble on his feet.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:39 am    Post subject:

From how he looks on the court (and his advice to a teammate), Mikan looks relentlessly aggressive. Kind of like a Center version of an old Laker nemesis, "Hondo" Havlicek.

Thanks Dan the Man!!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

Lakers#1Team wrote:
From how he looks on the court (and his advice to a teammate), Mikan looks relentlessly aggressive. Kind of like a Center version of an old Laker nemesis, "Hondo" Havlicek.

Thanks Dan the Man!!

I take it youíve listened to the interview with Clyde Lovellette? Where Clyde claims Mikan told him to add more roughness to his game (Clyde ended up with a reputation as one of the dirtiest players of his time)? If not Iíd be curious if there is an additional piece of testimony about Mikan instructing teammates to play rough. I noticed his aggression too, it reminds me a lot of Shaq. Much more so than say, Chamberlain. Wilt looks like a big immovable object that people bounced off of who only occasionally has rough looking plays. Mikan looks like he deliberately comes at you, often, with hard bumps and elbows.
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