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activeverb
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 Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | I honestly can't believe that people are working so hard to deny there's added celebrity and recognition that comes with being on the Lakers. |
I don't think anyone is denying that. Some of us are just saying the added recognition that comes from playing with the Lakers isn't anywhere near as great as some fans seem to think, especially in the current social media age, where most NBA games are televised and you can get attention outside traditional media.
It's not like joining the Lakers is automatically a pathway to tremendous fame, endorsements, movie deals and other benefits that an NBA player wouldn't get on another team. That might have been somewhat true 20 or 30 years ago, but even back then it was more hype than reality. |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | I honestly can't believe that people are working so hard to deny there's added celebrity and recognition that comes with being on the Lakers. |
I don't think anyone is denying that. Some of us are just saying the added recognition that comes from playing with the Lakers isn't anywhere near as great as some fans seem to think, especially in the current social media age, where most NBA games are televised and you can get attention outside traditional media.
It's not like joining the Lakers is automatically a pathway to tremendous fame, endorsements, movie deals and other benefits that an NBA player wouldn't get on another team. That might have been somewhat true 20 or 30 years ago, but even back then it was more hype than reality. |
social media era amplifies the lakers effect. check twitter/instagram follower counts for lakers players before they are lakers and after. it's like night and day.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2329654-nba-twitter-fan-follower-map-shows-lakers-are-most-national-team
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | [
social media era amplifies the lakers effect. check twitter/instagram follower counts for lakers players before they are lakers and after. it's like night and day. |
I have no idea how joining the Lakers has change players socal media metrics, but feel free to share any information you have, if this topic interests you. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I think playing in Los Angeles gets guys like Nick Young and D'Angelo Russell more exposure than they'd have elsewhere, considering their level of play. For a guy who's already an All-Star, like Paul George, I think we'd see more endorsements come his way.
I don't recall Chris Paul having national tv commercials for State Farm when he was a Hornet. DeAndre Jordan certainly wouldn't be dressing in drag in commercials if he played in Denver. And they were just Clippers. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | I think playing in Los Angeles gets guys like Nick Young and D'Angelo Russell more exposure than they'd have elsewhere, considering their level of play. For a guy who's already an All-Star, like Paul George, I think we'd see more endorsements come his way.
I don't recall Chris Paul having national tv commercials for State Farm when he was a Hornet. DeAndre Jordan certainly wouldn't be dressing in drag in commercials if he played in Denver. And they were just Clippers. |
You're making a lot of guesses and assumptions, some of which I know are wrong. For example, when Paul was with the Hornets, he was one of the league leaders in jersey sales and he got a lot of endorsement money (including doing TV commercials for Right Guard). I'm not sure if moving to Los Angeles had much of an impact on his endorsements or awareness of him.
And if you look at the top NBA endorsement deals, there doesn't seem to much correlation to market size anymore, if there ever was. Most of the endorsement money is for shoes, and most of the money goes to a very small number of players.
You'd really need to examine a player's Q rating, a measure of how well known and popular a player is, but that information isn't readily acceptable. |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| So the fact that Lakers is the only non playoff team in top-10 national televised games doesn’t give player exposure? |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | So the fact that Lakers is the only non playoff team in top-10 national televised games doesn’t give player exposure? |
Lol. they are going to keep ignoring this because it doesnt fit their narrative that makes no sense at all. it's almost like people are discussing a point that needs no discussion. It's like if asking is L.A. a more popular city than any city in the midwest or the south. the answer is hell yes without blinking or thinking. You may hate or love l.a. doesnt take away its popularity. If all these people were from so called "flyover" states I could understand it. but some of them are from right here. So they know better. trying to be contrarian.  |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | I honestly can't believe that people are working so hard to deny there's added celebrity and recognition that comes with being on the Lakers. |
I don't think anyone is denying that. Some of us are just saying the added recognition that comes from playing with the Lakers isn't anywhere near as great as some fans seem to think, especially in the current social media age, where most NBA games are televised and you can get attention outside traditional media.
It's not like joining the Lakers is automatically a pathway to tremendous fame, endorsements, movie deals and other benefits that an NBA player wouldn't get on another team. That might have been somewhat true 20 or 30 years ago, but even back then it was more hype than reality. |
social media era amplifies the lakers effect. check twitter/instagram follower counts for lakers players before they are lakers and after. it's like night and day.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2329654-nba-twitter-fan-follower-map-shows-lakers-are-most-national-team |
^^^DROPS MIC....
You're either a laker fan or a laker hater. This is why every agent and the media will bounce everything off the lakers during those slow news times because they know everyone across the US will eat it up.
"Man..i hate the lakers. what did they say about the lakers this time..??"
"What? What did they just say about my Lakers? They better not be talking crazy?" |
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Daphanabe
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Joined: 24 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t put in a #2 vote getter, but fair enough. |
Manu Ginobbli was the #2 fan vote getter this year, and he didn't make the team.
Zaza Pachulia -- believe it or not -- was the #2 fan vote getter last year, and he didn't make the team either.
Wade was the #2 vote getter the year before that and he didn't make the team.
You get the idea. |
Not really a fair analogy since Paul George is actually still really good. On the Manu question above, would be interesting to see the split of international votes. |
You're the one who said the coaches would vote in a player simply because he was the number two on the fan ballot. I was just showing that many times they have not done so, and they don't particularly care how the fans vote
It also shows how ballot stuffing from one team doesn't make as big a deal as it used to, with the new voting system |
We were having a conversation specifically around Paul George, which is where that comes from. Would it have been clearer like this - “I find it hard to believe that Paul George wouldn’t have been an All-Star if he was the #2 vote getter” (which he likely would have been on the Lakers).
I’m sure PG sees it the same way. You don’t think he was pissed when he didn’t get in (before he got the mercy call after others got injured). I’m sure he was thinking, that would never have happened if he was a Laker. |
I go back to my point. How the fans vote doesn't affect how the media, players, or coaches vote. So I don't see how an increase in the fan vote for George would have changed the outcome for him this year. |
So to be clear - Are you saying that if Paul George were the #2 vote getter this year, he still wouldn’t have made the All-Star?
If so, then just agree to disagree as I defintely think he would have. |
If we look at what they've done in the past, the players, media, and coaches, have never taken the fan vote into consideration in their own voting. But you think if George put on a Lakers jersey, that would all change for him? Got it. |
If George were a Laker this year, yes. He would have defintely gotten more votes, and being ranked that high combined with his play, he’d have gotten in the first pass. |
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Daphanabe
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I’m not from the LA bubble (I live in Asia). In my country, people only care about two teams: whoever is tops at the moment, and the Lakers. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Daphanabe wrote: | | If George were a Laker this year, yes. He would have defintely gotten more votes, and being ranked that high combined with his play, he’d have gotten in the first pass. |
I don't see the logic behind why you think the media, coaches, or players would have changed their vote based on the fan vote, and you've continually ignored that question, so I guess it's just one of those "You believe what you believe because you believe it. No logic needed or desired."
Cool. |
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Daphanabe
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | If George were a Laker this year, yes. He would have defintely gotten more votes, and being ranked that high combined with his play, he’d have gotten in the first pass. |
I don't see the logic behind why you think the media, coaches, or players would have changed their vote based on the fan vote, and you've continually ignored that question, so I guess it's just one of those "You believe what you believe because you believe it. No logic needed or desired."
Cool. |
What have I ignored? Pretty straight forward - What I’m saying is if he’s ranked that high, then the media, coaches, and players will align with that.
What you’ve actually ignored is to go right out and say you don’t believe he’d get in even if voted in number 2. I’m guessing you don’t want that on record since you know how silly that stand sounds. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | I honestly can't believe that people are working so hard to deny there's added celebrity and recognition that comes with being on the Lakers. |
I don't think anyone is denying that. Some of us are just saying the added recognition that comes from playing with the Lakers isn't anywhere near as great as some fans seem to think, especially in the current social media age, where most NBA games are televised and you can get attention outside traditional media.
It's not like joining the Lakers is automatically a pathway to tremendous fame, endorsements, movie deals and other benefits that an NBA player wouldn't get on another team. That might have been somewhat true 20 or 30 years ago, but even back then it was more hype than reality. |
social media era amplifies the lakers effect. check twitter/instagram follower counts for lakers players before they are lakers and after. it's like night and day.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2329654-nba-twitter-fan-follower-map-shows-lakers-are-most-national-team |
^^^DROPS MIC....
You're either a laker fan or a laker hater. This is why every agent and the media will bounce everything off the lakers during those slow news times because they know everyone across the US will eat it up.
"Man..i hate the lakers. what did they say about the lakers this time..??"
"What? What did they just say about my Lakers? They better not be talking crazy?" |
I prefer to think of myself as iconoclastic. You know, like Nick Young. Have you heard he's an icon? The iconist, even. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Daphanabe wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | If George were a Laker this year, yes. He would have defintely gotten more votes, and being ranked that high combined with his play, he’d have gotten in the first pass. |
I don't see the logic behind why you think the media, coaches, or players would have changed their vote based on the fan vote, and you've continually ignored that question, so I guess it's just one of those "You believe what you believe because you believe it. No logic needed or desired."
Cool. |
What have I ignored? Pretty straight forward - What I’m saying is if he’s ranked that high, then the media, coaches, and players will align with that.
What you’ve actually ignored is to go right out and say you don’t believe he’d get in even if voted in number 2. I’m guessing you don’t want that on record since you know how silly that stand sounds. |
Again, there's no evidence that the coaches, Media or players have ever been affected by the fan vote, so I don't know why you think they would be in the case of George when they haven't been for anybody else. In fact, the players and media vote was added precisely because they weren't affected by what the fans think. You never explained your logic for that one. But whatever.
On top of that, I just realized I have no idea when the players and media vote. How many of their ballots are cast before the fan votes are even revealed? I don't know. Is it possible that they don't know how the fans are voting and it would be literally impossible for them to be affected by the fan vote. Again I don't know
I haven't given any thought or study to where George might have ended up in the voting if he were a Laker. It's certainly possible he could have ended up in the number 2 spot though like I say I haven't looked at it closely enough to have an opinion on where I think he might have landed |
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mookielala
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I keep seeing this headline and I realize now what annoys me about the comment. Kobe is a famous hardass, not easy to get along with, and that is part of what made the Lakers a less appealing destination in his last couple years. I think he resents that, which is why he characterizes players who don't choose the Lakers as somehow not up to playing for the storied franchise. But that is BS. No one is scared to play for the Lakers because it is a bigger spotlight. They just might choose other teams because it makes more sense for them. The Lakers haven't made much basketball sense as a destination for a few years now, but that is changing -- we have a young core and space to grow. Any kind of negativity on Kobe's part works against that. A better answer would be "I don't think my lobbying for a FA would sway them too much because I'm not playing on the team anymore. If I can help, then I will." That would be a more humble and realistic answer. |
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trablos
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mookielala wrote: | | I keep seeing this headline and I realize now what annoys me about the comment. Kobe is a famous hardass, not easy to get along with, and that is part of what made the Lakers a less appealing destination in his last couple years. I think he resents that, which is why he characterizes players who don't choose the Lakers as somehow not up to playing for the storied franchise. But that is BS. No one is scared to play for the Lakers because it is a bigger spotlight. They just might choose other teams because it makes more sense for them. The Lakers haven't made much basketball sense as a destination for a few years now, but that is changing -- we have a young core and space to grow. Any kind of negativity on Kobe's part works against that. A better answer would be "I don't think my lobbying for a FA would sway them too much because I'm not playing on the team anymore. If I can help, then I will." That would be a more humble and realistic answer. |
It's really annoying to see people keep repeating this BSPN "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY WITH KOBE" narrative. Kobe's literally the only reason we got a meeting with LA. People didn't wanna come here post-achilles tear because they knew he only had a few years left and the rest of our roster was garbage. Go back and listen to interviews from before 2013 and damn near every star in the league has said something like "I would love playing with Kobe" because they know Kobe's not messing around and its championship or bust. |
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mookielala
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Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | I keep seeing this headline and I realize now what annoys me about the comment. Kobe is a famous hardass, not easy to get along with, and that is part of what made the Lakers a less appealing destination in his last couple years. I think he resents that, which is why he characterizes players who don't choose the Lakers as somehow not up to playing for the storied franchise. But that is BS. No one is scared to play for the Lakers because it is a bigger spotlight. They just might choose other teams because it makes more sense for them. The Lakers haven't made much basketball sense as a destination for a few years now, but that is changing -- we have a young core and space to grow. Any kind of negativity on Kobe's part works against that. A better answer would be "I don't think my lobbying for a FA would sway them too much because I'm not playing on the team anymore. If I can help, then I will." That would be a more humble and realistic answer. |
It's really annoying to see people keep repeating this BSPN "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY WITH KOBE" narrative. Kobe's literally the only reason we got a meeting with LA. People didn't wanna come here post-achilles tear because they knew he only had a few years left and the rest of our roster was garbage. Go back and listen to interviews from before 2013 and damn near every star in the league has said something like "I would love playing with Kobe" because they know Kobe's not messing around and its championship or bust. |
I did say his last couple years. |
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trablos
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mookielala wrote: | | trablos wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | I keep seeing this headline and I realize now what annoys me about the comment. Kobe is a famous hardass, not easy to get along with, and that is part of what made the Lakers a less appealing destination in his last couple years. I think he resents that, which is why he characterizes players who don't choose the Lakers as somehow not up to playing for the storied franchise. But that is BS. No one is scared to play for the Lakers because it is a bigger spotlight. They just might choose other teams because it makes more sense for them. The Lakers haven't made much basketball sense as a destination for a few years now, but that is changing -- we have a young core and space to grow. Any kind of negativity on Kobe's part works against that. A better answer would be "I don't think my lobbying for a FA would sway them too much because I'm not playing on the team anymore. If I can help, then I will." That would be a more humble and realistic answer. |
It's really annoying to see people keep repeating this BSPN "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY WITH KOBE" narrative. Kobe's literally the only reason we got a meeting with LA. People didn't wanna come here post-achilles tear because they knew he only had a few years left and the rest of our roster was garbage. Go back and listen to interviews from before 2013 and damn near every star in the league has said something like "I would love playing with Kobe" because they know Kobe's not messing around and its championship or bust. |
I did say his last couple years. |
Yeah but you said it like it was Kobe's personality and not his injury and the teams overall outlook that made us "less appealing". |
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mookielala
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Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | trablos wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | I keep seeing this headline and I realize now what annoys me about the comment. Kobe is a famous hardass, not easy to get along with, and that is part of what made the Lakers a less appealing destination in his last couple years. I think he resents that, which is why he characterizes players who don't choose the Lakers as somehow not up to playing for the storied franchise. But that is BS. No one is scared to play for the Lakers because it is a bigger spotlight. They just might choose other teams because it makes more sense for them. The Lakers haven't made much basketball sense as a destination for a few years now, but that is changing -- we have a young core and space to grow. Any kind of negativity on Kobe's part works against that. A better answer would be "I don't think my lobbying for a FA would sway them too much because I'm not playing on the team anymore. If I can help, then I will." That would be a more humble and realistic answer. |
It's really annoying to see people keep repeating this BSPN "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY WITH KOBE" narrative. Kobe's literally the only reason we got a meeting with LA. People didn't wanna come here post-achilles tear because they knew he only had a few years left and the rest of our roster was garbage. Go back and listen to interviews from before 2013 and damn near every star in the league has said something like "I would love playing with Kobe" because they know Kobe's not messing around and its championship or bust. |
I did say his last couple years. |
Yeah but you said it like it was Kobe's personality and not his injury and the teams overall outlook that made us "less appealing". |
His attitude didn't change after he lost that step. He took the largest salary in the league and played just about the worst team basketball I've seen in my life. On top of that, he was a dick to his teammates. His rationalization was that nobody wanted to win like he did and the Lakers are too much of a spotlight, but that is the rationalization of a very narcissistic person. |
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trablos
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well hey if guys like Kobe, MJ, Magic, Bron and others who have 19 rings between them are narcissists, then perhaps that should be the first thing our scouts should be looking for  |
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mookielala
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | Well hey if guys like Kobe, MJ, Magic, Bron and others who have 19 rings between them are narcissists, then perhaps that should be the first thing our scouts should be looking for |
I agree that his ego and incredible desire to win is a big part of what made him one of the greatest players ever. Same for most of those guys you mention. |
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DrDent
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Not a fan of this type of recruiting pitch - I think it turns off a lot of players for a variety of reasons, especially when it's associated with a non playoff team. It's kind of like that person who use to be hot when younger and it's like 30 years later and they still say "if you want to be with this..."...ahh, I'll pass. Thanks. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | I honestly can't believe that people are working so hard to deny there's added celebrity and recognition that comes with being on the Lakers. |
I don't think anyone is denying that. Some of us are just saying the added recognition that comes from playing with the Lakers isn't anywhere near as great as some fans seem to think, especially in the current social media age, where most NBA games are televised and you can get attention outside traditional media.
It's not like joining the Lakers is automatically a pathway to tremendous fame, endorsements, movie deals and other benefits that an NBA player wouldn't get on another team. That might have been somewhat true 20 or 30 years ago, but even back then it was more hype than reality. |
social media era amplifies the lakers effect. check twitter/instagram follower counts for lakers players before they are lakers and after. it's like night and day.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2329654-nba-twitter-fan-p-map-shows-lakers-are-most-national-team |
Yes, social media has turned Lopez and KCP into household names.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers are the only team in the NBA that are relevant even when they are bad. Similar to the Yankees. |
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44TheLogo
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | I honestly can't believe that people are working so hard to deny there's added celebrity and recognition that comes with being on the Lakers. |
I don't think anyone is denying that. Some of us are just saying the added recognition that comes from playing with the Lakers isn't anywhere near as great as some fans seem to think, especially in the current social media age, where most NBA games are televised and you can get attention outside traditional media.
It's not like joining the Lakers is automatically a pathway to tremendous fame, endorsements, movie deals and other benefits that an NBA player wouldn't get on another team. That might have been somewhat true 20 or 30 years ago, but even back then it was more hype than reality. |
social media era amplifies the lakers effect. check twitter/instagram follower counts for lakers players before they are lakers and after. it's like night and day.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2329654-nba-twitter-fan-p-map-shows-lakers-are-most-national-team |
Yes, social media has turned Lopez and KCP into household names. |
way to make up a strawman, genius. the original comment was that social media limited the marketing effect of playing for the lakers, when in fact the lakers have the largest social media fanbase. nowhere did i state that social media would turn non stars into household names. feel free to keep making up fake arguments that you can ridicule if it makes you feel smarter though.
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