Zaza Pachulia is being too obvious about it now. "Falls" on Westbrook's knee.
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
You guys are overreacting. Zaza got the back of his knee kicked which caused his collapse. Nick’s foot got caught behind Zaza’s knee, and as he collapsed because Westbrook fell all over his back, Nick’s foot collapsed Zaza’s leg. Just bad luck.

https://deadspin.com/1823308062


Yah. I've felt like I've been in Alternate World where no one else sees Swagelle's legs wrapped up with Westbrook's and then Zaza's.

I thought his Kawhi moment was much more dubious than this one.

I slowed the video and went frame by frame. Z could have avoided Westbrooks leg. He made no effort to. I don't know if it was intentional or not but his reputation says it may have been. LINK
Quote:
Pachulia appears to just be standing by the Westbrook and Young pile before falling over on his own volition. There were no other bodies in the vicinity and any contact between Pachulia, Young and Westbrook seems minimal.

However, it’s difficult to see from the baseline camera but the broadcast angle shows Young’s right foot hooking Pachulia’s left leg, which could have thrown off the centre’s balance and sent him tumbling. It gives Pachulia a little bit of plausible deniability, but doesn’t explain why he falls so directly into Westbrook’s knees instead of trying to avoid contact.


Quote:
His reputation does him no favours and San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich offered up an analogy after Pachulia slid under Kawhi Leonard on a jump shot in last year’s Western Conference Finals, injuring his ankle and taking him out for the rest of the playoffs.


“Who gives a damn what his intent was?” Popovich said after Game 1. “Have you ever heard of manslaughter? You still go to jail, I think, when you’re texting and you end up killing somebody, but may have not intended to do that. All I care is what I saw. All I care about is what happened. And the history there exasperates the whole situation and makes me very, very angry.”


Suggestion, slow the video down. I may be missing something, I didn't see a effort to avoid Russel's leg.


Slowing videos down makes people think players had far more time to think and plan out actions than they actually had. These guys are remarkable athletes, but they aren’t super humans who can react to unexpected events instantly andplot out exactly what they’re going to do in a half second. And Zaza is slower than most guys in the nba.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
You guys are overreacting. Zaza got the back of his knee kicked which caused his collapse. Nick’s foot got caught behind Zaza’s knee, and as he collapsed because Westbrook fell all over his back, Nick’s foot collapsed Zaza’s leg. Just bad luck.

https://deadspin.com/1823308062


Yah. I've felt like I've been in Alternate World where no one else sees Swagelle's legs wrapped up with Westbrook's and then Zaza's.

I thought his Kawhi moment was much more dubious than this one.

I slowed the video and went frame by frame. Z could have avoided Westbrooks leg. He made no effort to. I don't know if it was intentional or not but his reputation says it may have been. LINK
Quote:
Pachulia appears to just be standing by the Westbrook and Young pile before falling over on his own volition. There were no other bodies in the vicinity and any contact between Pachulia, Young and Westbrook seems minimal.

However, it’s difficult to see from the baseline camera but the broadcast angle shows Young’s right foot hooking Pachulia’s left leg, which could have thrown off the centre’s balance and sent him tumbling. It gives Pachulia a little bit of plausible deniability, but doesn’t explain why he falls so directly into Westbrook’s knees instead of trying to avoid contact.


Quote:
His reputation does him no favours and San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich offered up an analogy after Pachulia slid under Kawhi Leonard on a jump shot in last year’s Western Conference Finals, injuring his ankle and taking him out for the rest of the playoffs.


“Who gives a damn what his intent was?” Popovich said after Game 1. “Have you ever heard of manslaughter? You still go to jail, I think, when you’re texting and you end up killing somebody, but may have not intended to do that. All I care is what I saw. All I care about is what happened. And the history there exasperates the whole situation and makes me very, very angry.”


Suggestion, slow the video down. I may be missing something, I didn't see a effort to avoid Russel's leg.


Slowing videos down makes people think players had far more time to think and plan out actions than they actually had. These guys are remarkable athletes, but they aren’t super humans who can react to unexpected events instantly andplot out exactly what they’re going to do in a half second. And Zaza is slower than most guys in the nba.

In real time I see Z standing, losing his balance, making no effort to avoid Westbrook. He turned his body in that half second and landed full on Russel. IMO that turn should have had intention to avoid. It didn't look like he tried to me.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject:

He clearly recovered from the initial leg whip, actually looked at WB on the floor, and proceeded to put the full brunt of his momentum and body onto WB's legs. He doesn't belong in the league. If the league doesn't take care of it, they will be to blame when something really ugly ensues when players take matters into their own hands. I'd personally knock his ass out if I was an NBA player.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject:

Welp. On NBA TV they just flashed on the screen that there will be no fine or suspension.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
He clearly recovered from the initial leg whip, actually looked at WB on the floor, and proceeded to put the full brunt of his momentum and body onto WB's legs. He doesn't belong in the league. If the league doesn't take care of it, they will be to blame when something really ugly ensues when players take matters into their own hands. I'd personally knock his ass out if I was an NBA player.


I wonder if Zaza would get away with this stuff if he were on a non-contending small market team. It's pretty bizarre to me that they league will protect some scrub like him over two of their marquee stars-- the reigning MVP (Westbrook) and a former Finals MVP (Kawhi).
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Just looking at the tape, I can't determine that anything he did was on purpose. To conclude that, you need to think you can read his mind.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject:

We've seen Zaza's history so I am sorry but it is hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. And it goes back even before the Kawhi undercut. He even went into Paul George's knee this season. Is it just by some dumb luck that he seems to only "fall" into star players?

I am not the most athletic guy but I feel like if I am going down at that slow of a rate that ZaZa was going at I could put an arm down so that I don't even hit the floor. It is not as if he was falling from the air or going down fast from a push. If you watch it at full motion he has more than enough time to put his arms down so that there is no big impact with Russ.

As Stephen Jackson said "NBA players know how to fall".

We aren't in his mind so we could only guess his intent. That is true. After so many times it just doesn't look right.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
You guys are overreacting. Zaza got the back of his knee kicked which caused his collapse. Nick’s foot got caught behind Zaza’s knee, and as he collapsed because Westbrook fell all over his back, Nick’s foot collapsed Zaza’s leg. Just bad luck.

https://deadspin.com/1823308062


Yah. I've felt like I've been in Alternate World where no one else sees Swagelle's legs wrapped up with Westbrook's and then Zaza's.

I thought his Kawhi moment was much more dubious than this one.

I slowed the video and went frame by frame. Z could have avoided Westbrooks leg. He made no effort to. I don't know if it was intentional or not but his reputation says it may have been. LINK
Quote:
Pachulia appears to just be standing by the Westbrook and Young pile before falling over on his own volition. There were no other bodies in the vicinity and any contact between Pachulia, Young and Westbrook seems minimal.

However, it’s difficult to see from the baseline camera but the broadcast angle shows Young’s right foot hooking Pachulia’s left leg, which could have thrown off the centre’s balance and sent him tumbling. It gives Pachulia a little bit of plausible deniability, but doesn’t explain why he falls so directly into Westbrook’s knees instead of trying to avoid contact.


Quote:
His reputation does him no favours and San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich offered up an analogy after Pachulia slid under Kawhi Leonard on a jump shot in last year’s Western Conference Finals, injuring his ankle and taking him out for the rest of the playoffs.


“Who gives a damn what his intent was?” Popovich said after Game 1. “Have you ever heard of manslaughter? You still go to jail, I think, when you’re texting and you end up killing somebody, but may have not intended to do that. All I care is what I saw. All I care about is what happened. And the history there exasperates the whole situation and makes me very, very angry.”


Suggestion, slow the video down. I may be missing something, I didn't see a effort to avoid Russel's leg.


Slowing videos down makes people think players had far more time to think and plan out actions than they actually had. These guys are remarkable athletes, but they aren’t super humans who can react to unexpected events instantly andplot out exactly what they’re going to do in a half second. And Zaza is slower than most guys in the nba.


These are professional athletes. The reason they have reached the highest level of sports is because of their ability to have very quick reactions in addition to strength and speed.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Some players do try to hurt one another. Jaylen Rose admitted he purposely went under Kobe with intent to injure him. Bruce Bowen was notorious for stepping under players. He and Vince Carter almost came to blows because he stepped under him and injured his ankle. Bogut, Dellavedova, Adams to name a few accused of being dirty players. Zaza is included in a group who players call dirty.

If you're of the opinion Z didn't intentionally try to fall on Westbrook you're entitled to that opinion? Did he intend to injure him, I don't know. Did he try to fall on him, I'm of the opinion he did?
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JerryWest_44
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
You guys are overreacting. Zaza got the back of his knee kicked which caused his collapse. Nick’s foot got caught behind Zaza’s knee, and as he collapsed because Westbrook fell all over his back, Nick’s foot collapsed Zaza’s leg. Just bad luck.

https://deadspin.com/1823308062


Yah. I've felt like I've been in Alternate World where no one else sees Swagelle's legs wrapped up with Westbrook's and then Zaza's.

I thought his Kawhi moment was much more dubious than this one.

I slowed the video and went frame by frame. Z could have avoided Westbrooks leg. He made no effort to. I don't know if it was intentional or not but his reputation says it may have been. LINK
Quote:
Pachulia appears to just be standing by the Westbrook and Young pile before falling over on his own volition. There were no other bodies in the vicinity and any contact between Pachulia, Young and Westbrook seems minimal.

However, it’s difficult to see from the baseline camera but the broadcast angle shows Young’s right foot hooking Pachulia’s left leg, which could have thrown off the centre’s balance and sent him tumbling. It gives Pachulia a little bit of plausible deniability, but doesn’t explain why he falls so directly into Westbrook’s knees instead of trying to avoid contact.


Quote:
His reputation does him no favours and San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich offered up an analogy after Pachulia slid under Kawhi Leonard on a jump shot in last year’s Western Conference Finals, injuring his ankle and taking him out for the rest of the playoffs.


“Who gives a damn what his intent was?” Popovich said after Game 1. “Have you ever heard of manslaughter? You still go to jail, I think, when you’re texting and you end up killing somebody, but may have not intended to do that. All I care is what I saw. All I care about is what happened. And the history there exasperates the whole situation and makes me very, very angry.”


Suggestion, slow the video down. I may be missing something, I didn't see a effort to avoid Russel's leg.


Slowing videos down makes people think players had far more time to think and plan out actions than they actually had. These guys are remarkable athletes, but they aren’t super humans who can react to unexpected events instantly andplot out exactly what they’re going to do in a half second. And Zaza is slower than most guys in the nba.

In real time I see Z standing, losing his balance, making no effort to avoid Westbrook. He turned his body in that half second and landed full on Russel. IMO that turn should have had intention to avoid. It didn't look like he tried to me.


Plus he made absolutely no attempt to break his fall at all -- he just went free fall with all of his weight ...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
You guys are overreacting. Zaza got the back of his knee kicked which caused his collapse. Nick’s foot got caught behind Zaza’s knee, and as he collapsed because Westbrook fell all over his back, Nick’s foot collapsed Zaza’s leg. Just bad luck.

https://deadspin.com/1823308062


Yah. I've felt like I've been in Alternate World where no one else sees Swagelle's legs wrapped up with Westbrook's and then Zaza's.

I thought his Kawhi moment was much more dubious than this one.

I slowed the video and went frame by frame. Z could have avoided Westbrooks leg. He made no effort to. I don't know if it was intentional or not but his reputation says it may have been. LINK
Quote:
Pachulia appears to just be standing by the Westbrook and Young pile before falling over on his own volition. There were no other bodies in the vicinity and any contact between Pachulia, Young and Westbrook seems minimal.

However, it’s difficult to see from the baseline camera but the broadcast angle shows Young’s right foot hooking Pachulia’s left leg, which could have thrown off the centre’s balance and sent him tumbling. It gives Pachulia a little bit of plausible deniability, but doesn’t explain why he falls so directly into Westbrook’s knees instead of trying to avoid contact.


Quote:
His reputation does him no favours and San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich offered up an analogy after Pachulia slid under Kawhi Leonard on a jump shot in last year’s Western Conference Finals, injuring his ankle and taking him out for the rest of the playoffs.


“Who gives a damn what his intent was?” Popovich said after Game 1. “Have you ever heard of manslaughter? You still go to jail, I think, when you’re texting and you end up killing somebody, but may have not intended to do that. All I care is what I saw. All I care about is what happened. And the history there exasperates the whole situation and makes me very, very angry.”


Suggestion, slow the video down. I may be missing something, I didn't see a effort to avoid Russel's leg.


Slowing videos down makes people think players had far more time to think and plan out actions than they actually had. These guys are remarkable athletes, but they aren’t super humans who can react to unexpected events instantly andplot out exactly what they’re going to do in a half second. And Zaza is slower than most guys in the nba.

In real time I see Z standing, losing his balance, making no effort to avoid Westbrook. He turned his body in that half second and landed full on Russel. IMO that turn should have had intention to avoid. It didn't look like he tried to me.


Plus he made absolutely no attempt to break his fall at all -- he just went free fall with all of his weight ...

You see it as I do. Like a WWF wrestler falling on an opponent only this wasn't fake.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:



Plus he made absolutely no attempt to break his fall at all -- he just went free fall with all of his weight ...


Just playing devil's advocate, but if he really was tripped should he be sticking his hand out and risk an injury to his shooting wrist? I don't think he has the vantage point the cameras do to know it was Swaggy pulling him down.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:



Plus he made absolutely no attempt to break his fall at all -- he just went free fall with all of his weight ...


Just playing devil's advocate, but if he really was tripped should he be sticking his hand out and risk an injury to his shooting wrist? I don't think he has the vantage point the cameras do to know it was Swaggy pulling him down.


Swaggy pulling him down, C'mon man!!! Nicks foot made contact with the back of Z's knee his hands were nowhere in the picture. Z stood straight up. He avoided falling on Young. Seemed to me he looked at Nick and Russel and decided to fall on Russel. It's been mentioned players know how to fall. Z had plenty of time to cushion his fall without injury. Again I'm not saying he was trying to injure Westbrook, I'm saying he fell on him on purpose.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:



Plus he made absolutely no attempt to break his fall at all -- he just went free fall with all of his weight ...


Just playing devil's advocate, but if he really was tripped should he be sticking his hand out and risk an injury to his shooting wrist? I don't think he has the vantage point the cameras do to know it was Swaggy pulling him down.


Swaggy pulling him down, C'mon man!!! Nicks foot made contact with the back of Z's knee his hands were nowhere in the picture. Z stood straight up. He avoided falling on Young. Seemed to me he looked at Nick and Russel and decided to fall on Russel. It's been mentioned players know how to fall. Z had plenty of time to cushion his fall without injury. Again I'm not saying he was trying to injure Westbrook, I'm saying he fell on him on purpose.


The way I am seeing it, swaggy's foot hooks the back of the knee while swaggy is still mostly up, at the start of his fall, and stays there as he falls. His foot is still behind the knee when zaza hits the floor. Further, swaggy is hopping forward with his other leg while the foot is hooked behind the knee, then falls with the foot still hooked.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfmxluUhdwd/
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
jodeke wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:



Plus he made absolutely no attempt to break his fall at all -- he just went free fall with all of his weight ...


Just playing devil's advocate, but if he really was tripped should he be sticking his hand out and risk an injury to his shooting wrist? I don't think he has the vantage point the cameras do to know it was Swaggy pulling him down.


Swaggy pulling him down, C'mon man!!! Nicks foot made contact with the back of Z's knee his hands were nowhere in the picture. Z stood straight up. He avoided falling on Young. Seemed to me he looked at Nick and Russel and decided to fall on Russel. It's been mentioned players know how to fall. Z had plenty of time to cushion his fall without injury. Again I'm not saying he was trying to injure Westbrook, I'm saying he fell on him on purpose.


The way I am seeing it, swaggy's foot hooks the back of the knee while swaggy is still mostly up, at the start of his fall, and stays there as he falls. His foot is still behind the knee when zaza hits the floor. Further, swaggy is hopping forward with his other leg while the foot is hooked behind the knee, then falls with the foot still hooked.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfmxluUhdwd/

Nicks foot is under Russel's leg and behind Z's knee. Swaggy is sitting up complaining when Z hits the floor.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:51 am    Post subject:

I hate this guy. I think he intentionally wants to hurt stars. I was disgusted by his stare after the RW hard foul before as well. Won't mind if anyone did him like Malone had enough with the dirty Pistons.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Watched the video a few times. It honestly looks like Young yanked ZaZa's knee. Z even stutters a bit. I support the NBA's decision. But at the same time I cannot say if Z did anything to prevent hurting Westbrook once he knew he was coming down.
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