Jeanie Buss On The Trade With The Cavs: "I Really Appreciated The Process. Not Only Did Magic and Rob Sit Down With Me, They Brought The Analytics Department"
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
Better bring those same guys when they're pitching to Paul George. Show him why Russ is number one in assist but OKC is dead last in assist.


This is where I expect Pelinka to shine where Mitch couldn't. Pushing the right buttons in pitch meetings with players.


That's true. As much as I liked Mitch, that was a major flaw he had.

They don't need to be so blunt and point out OKC's problems. Just promote our positives and PG will make the connections. He knows how much of a ball hog Westbrook is, so just emphasize how unselfish and collaborative we are. All back up by numbers.
mitch wasnt flawed.
no one would've signed the players mitch didnt get. what part of that dont you guys get?

rob and magic could've been there with our current team at the time and what those FA's were really looking for we didnt have. melo wanted to stay in New york and get paid. he was being disrespected by Phil jackson and he still didnt say let me go until it got really really bad. that tells me, he really wanted to be in that city. not in los angeles. he took the meeting out of respect for kobe.

same thing with Lemarcus. he took the meeting because he never has been a FA before. he wanted to see how it felt to be courted. but he knew good and well he was going home to Texas and going to a contender. two things we could not offer him. period.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LAkers 4 Life
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
Better bring those same guys when they're pitching to Paul George. Show him why Russ is number one in assist but OKC is dead last in assist.


This is where I expect Pelinka to shine where Mitch couldn't. Pushing the right buttons in pitch meetings with players.


What is the reputation of Pelinka as a presenter? Is he on the level of Scott Boras for MLB, renowned for having all sorts of information on hand and being able to greatly inflate the importance of his clients' ability?

The old regime used basically the same type of pitch and it just wore out after a while. The cracks were there as far back as the Juwan Howard presentation when he felt the organization came off as very arrogant during the courtship like they were doing him a favor and led to the Hollywood style fluff piece that Aldridge rejected.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
Better bring those same guys when they're pitching to Paul George. Show him why Russ is number one in assist but OKC is dead last in assist.


This is where I expect Pelinka to shine where Mitch couldn't. Pushing the right buttons in pitch meetings with players.


What is the reputation of Pelinka as a presenter? Is he on the level of Scott Boras for MLB, renowned for having all sorts of information on hand and being able to greatly inflate the importance of his clients' ability?

The old regime used basically the same type of pitch and it just wore out after a while. The cracks were there as far back as the Juwan Howard presentation when he felt the organization came off as very arrogant during the courtship like they were doing him a favor and led to the Hollywood style fluff piece that Aldridge rejected.


I'm not sure if "the pitch" to Alridge was the problem as much as we didn't really have much to sell -- we were a 21-win team with an aged, injured star and not much else. By and large, superstars don't fall for fancy talk and analytics BS from a GM -- they go places where they like the coach and the quality of their teammates.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
mookielala
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject:

I'm a bit confused about the analytics part because Nance and, to a lesser extent, JC had some of the best advanced stats on the team, right? I wonder what they discussed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
trablos
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject:

This is how I imagine Pelinka in all our FA pitches

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:35 pm    Post subject:

mookielala wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the analytics part because Nance and, to a lesser extent, JC had some of the best advanced stats on the team, right? I wonder what they discussed.



It's possible the analytics guys didn't even say anything meaningful; I really doubt they were into a deep dive of the data with Jeannie, or that Jeannie would even know what questions to ask about analytics. The point about this wasn't how thoroughly Jeannie was briefed, but simply that she was kept in the loop.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Eindhoven
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:26 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
Better bring those same guys when they're pitching to Paul George. Show him why Russ is number one in assist but OKC is dead last in assist.


This is where I expect Pelinka to shine where Mitch couldn't. Pushing the right buttons in pitch meetings with players.


That's true. As much as I liked Mitch, that was a major flaw he had.

They don't need to be so blunt and point out OKC's problems. Just promote our positives and PG will make the connections. He knows how much of a ball hog Westbrook is, so just emphasize how unselfish and collaborative we are. All back up by numbers.
mitch wasnt flawed.
no one would've signed the players mitch didnt get. what part of that dont you guys get?

rob and magic could've been there with our current team at the time and what those FA's were really looking for we didnt have. melo wanted to stay in New york and get paid. he was being disrespected by Phil jackson and he still didnt say let me go until it got really really bad. that tells me, he really wanted to be in that city. not in los angeles. he took the meeting out of respect for kobe.

same thing with Lemarcus. he took the meeting because he never has been a FA before. he wanted to see how it felt to be courted. but he knew good and well he was going home to Texas and going to a contender. two things we could not offer him. period.


I'm a big fan of his, but Mitch never excelled in FA signings and I'm not talking just about LMA or Melo. He was great evaluating talent, building roster and making trades, but never played the FA market very well.

Like I said, it's a shame he went the way he did, caught in the cross fire of a sibling war. His time as GM was over, but the guy is an important chapter of Lakers History. Could have got a consulting job or, at least, an honorable dismiss.
_________________
....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CabinCreek44
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 3855

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:27 am    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
Better bring those same guys when they're pitching to Paul George. Show him why Russ is number one in assist but OKC is dead last in assist.


This is where I expect Pelinka to shine where Mitch couldn't. Pushing the right buttons in pitch meetings with players.


That's true. As much as I liked Mitch, that was a major flaw he had.

They don't need to be so blunt and point out OKC's problems. Just promote our positives and PG will make the connections. He knows how much of a ball hog Westbrook is, so just emphasize how unselfish and collaborative we are. All back up by numbers.
mitch wasnt flawed.
no one would've signed the players mitch didnt get. what part of that dont you guys get?

rob and magic could've been there with our current team at the time and what those FA's were really looking for we didnt have. melo wanted to stay in New york and get paid. he was being disrespected by Phil jackson and he still didnt say let me go until it got really really bad. that tells me, he really wanted to be in that city. not in los angeles. he took the meeting out of respect for kobe.

same thing with Lemarcus. he took the meeting because he never has been a FA before. he wanted to see how it felt to be courted. but he knew good and well he was going home to Texas and going to a contender. two things we could not offer him. period.


I'm a big fan of his, but Mitch never excelled in FA signings and I'm not talking just about LMA or Melo. He was great evaluating talent, building roster and making trades, but never played the FA market very well.

Like I said, it's a shame he went the way he did, caught in the cross fire of a sibling war. His time as GM was over, but the guy is an important chapter of Lakers History. Could have got a consulting job or, at least, an honorable dismiss.


Indeed. The way he was dismissed was a disgrace. Jeanie left the man twisting in the wind for over a week while Magic publicly campaigned to run the show. Whatever one thought of the job he did as GM in his last few seasons, Kupchak deserved a much better exit than that from the Lakers organization. He only had a major hand in management for FIVE NBA championship teams. Other than that, he didn't do much.

Feeling optimistic for now about Magic and Rob. Their moves so far have made sense. But the big test for them is this summer. Kupchak was basically run out of town because he didn't deliver any big time FAs. Jeanie was also running the team during those failures. So I'm assuming that will begin to change this summer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
L4L4K3RS
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 04 Oct 2017
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject:

mookielala wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the analytics part because Nance and, to a lesser extent, JC had some of the best advanced stats on the team, right? I wonder what they discussed.


Unfortunately, they might have a way to boiling down stats into a player number but I cannot imagine why anyone would look at IT and say, "THIS IS OUR GUY!". The concept that we need space for 2 Max Players is only good if you actually have a plan that will net you 2 max players worth that money.

I know people will say this was to make room in the cap but we could have at least looked at this team at the end of the year and made a move later. By doing this we secured Lebronze in CLE. We won't get a PG13 without some other big star and I just don't see us getting anyone else.

Using Analytics is always a good thing, but you also need to know when to pull that trigger and when to sit and wait. WE made a very bad trade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Jeanie Buss On The Trade With The Cavs: "I Really Appreciated The Process. Not Only Did Magic and Rob Sit Down With Me, They Brought The Analytics Department"

Chronicle wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Saw this on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/821jn1/jeanie_on_trade_with_cle_i_really_appreciated_the/

The difference between working with individuals using modern technology/advanced data vs the old FO is staggering.

It’s especially a huge plus compared to say, the Deng and Mozgov signings, two of the most useless players in the league to near 4 year near 20 mill deals, compared to KCP and Lopez, two contributing starters on one year deals.

Well done Magic and Rob.
the part you're talking about is not what jeanie is happy about.

she's happy that she was actually involved. something her bro did not do. they did not get along at all. he stayed on his side and she stayed on hers. problem doing that is it doesnt work well once dad past away. you can't not tell your boss whats going on with big moves. even the good ones.

she was happy that magic and rob trusted her basketball mind enough to be involved in the entire process.


Why is she supposed to be involved.

Someone who doesn't know anything about basketball should not be involved in basketball decisions. That's what Dr buss originally did after all! He let jerry west make the decisions, at one time west was gonna resign when dr buss wanted a certain trade. But we all know what happened and how many championships we won.

Owners should not interfere with basketball decisions. They hire a front office for a reason


So guys like Mark Cuban, Ballmer, i.e. billionaires who are actively involved in the team...it's cool that they're involved?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
mookielala wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the analytics part because Nance and, to a lesser extent, JC had some of the best advanced stats on the team, right? I wonder what they discussed.



It's possible the analytics guys didn't even say anything meaningful; I really doubt they were into a deep dive of the data with Jeannie, or that Jeannie would even know what questions to ask about analytics. The point about this wasn't how thoroughly Jeannie was briefed, but simply that she was kept in the loop.
even though i agree with your last statement. How do we know the bolded? That is a huge assumption. This lady has been around basketball for how long now? as long as some of the fans on this site has been alive. You know she talks to other owners and owners talk about "hey we have this new analytics department these guys are good because they do ....X...Y...Z" Just because MS JBuss doesnt run around trying to SOUND smart. Doesnt mean she isnt HIGHLY intelligent and up on the future of basketball which is analytics. Dont Assume anything. Until jeanie says "I dont know anything about those things". Dont assume she doesnt know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Just because MS JBuss doesnt run around trying to SOUND smart. Doesnt mean she isnt HIGHLY intelligent and up on the future of basketball which is analytics.


As a community, we may disagree about a lot of things. However, one thing should be abundantly clear to everyone: NONE of the Buss kids are highly intelligent. Jeanie may or may not have an understanding of analytics. Heck, if she isn't at least a little bit conversant in analytics, my opinion of her would go down (which is saying something). Nonetheless, let's not kid ourselves that any of the Buss kids ever got anywhere in this world because of their brains.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
Better bring those same guys when they're pitching to Paul George. Show him why Russ is number one in assist but OKC is dead last in assist.


This is where I expect Pelinka to shine where Mitch couldn't. Pushing the right buttons in pitch meetings with players.


That's true. As much as I liked Mitch, that was a major flaw he had.

They don't need to be so blunt and point out OKC's problems. Just promote our positives and PG will make the connections. He knows how much of a ball hog Westbrook is, so just emphasize how unselfish and collaborative we are. All back up by numbers.
mitch wasnt flawed.
no one would've signed the players mitch didnt get. what part of that dont you guys get?

rob and magic could've been there with our current team at the time and what those FA's were really looking for we didnt have. melo wanted to stay in New york and get paid. he was being disrespected by Phil jackson and he still didnt say let me go until it got really really bad. that tells me, he really wanted to be in that city. not in los angeles. he took the meeting out of respect for kobe.

same thing with Lemarcus. he took the meeting because he never has been a FA before. he wanted to see how it felt to be courted. but he knew good and well he was going home to Texas and going to a contender. two things we could not offer him. period.


I'm a big fan of his, but Mitch never excelled in FA signings and I'm not talking just about LMA or Melo. He was great evaluating talent, building roster and making trades, but never played the FA market very well.

Like I said, it's a shame he went the way he did, caught in the cross fire of a sibling war. His time as GM was over, but the guy is an important chapter of Lakers History. Could have got a consulting job or, at least, an honorable dismiss.


and who did jerry west get us? Shaq. Who never said jerry had to convince him. Jerry was telling shaq about kobe and shaq still admitted he didnt care. he was about that money. and L.A. at that point sold itself to someone like him who wanted to be an entertainer(rapper/into movies.)

what other GREAT players did Jerry sign as a FA that we talk about around these parts? No one.

The truth is, he didnt have to. thats because once you get a shaq and draft a kobe (who also angled to be here on his OWN). thats all you need . now you can just put fillers around him. non of the fillers were in their prime stars. Glen Rice was on the other side of his prime when we got him. and again. why wouldnt an older Grice not sign with kobe and shaq?


Mitch traded for gasol. and we already had kobe. all other mitch signings were just like jerry's ...filler guys. we didnt need any other stars. odom was a borderline allstar but not an official one.

so again saying mitch wasnt good at it isnt true. we dont know if he was or wasnt. he never had a LEGIT chance at signing any star FA's where they went to the meeting with him and came out thinking...maybe i want to go elsewhere because that wasnt the best interview. again dont bring up what lemarcus said because that guy was never coming here to begin with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mamba Mentality
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 3077
Location: The Left Coast

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject:

We were passed up by FAs simply because we sucked. It's as simple as that. Though we still had Kobe, he was a shell of himself post Achilles and everyone knew it. That should change now because we actually have good pieces, a coach that most player like, and Magic who is very charismatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mamba Mentality
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 3077
Location: The Left Coast

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject:

We were passed up by FAs simply because we sucked. It's as simple as that. Though we still had Kobe, he was a shell of himself post Achilles and everyone knew it. That should change now because we actually have good pieces, a coach that most player like, and Magic who is very charismatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
activeverb wrote:
mookielala wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the analytics part because Nance and, to a lesser extent, JC had some of the best advanced stats on the team, right? I wonder what they discussed.



It's possible the analytics guys didn't even say anything meaningful; I really doubt they were into a deep dive of the data with Jeannie, or that Jeannie would even know what questions to ask about analytics. The point about this wasn't how thoroughly Jeannie was briefed, but simply that she was kept in the loop.
even though i agree with your last statement. How do we know the bolded? That is a huge assumption.



We don't know it; it's simply my opinion based on listening to her public statements for many years. I don't find Jeannie to be particularly intelligent, and I doubt she could hold a meaningful conversation about analytics though she might be able to throw around some buzzwords.


splashmtn wrote:
You know she talks to other owners and owners talk about "hey we have this new analytics department these guys are good because they do ....X...Y...Z"


Now who's making assumptions?


splashmtn wrote:
Just because MS JBuss doesnt run around trying to SOUND smart. Doesnt mean she isnt HIGHLY intelligent


I didn't realize Jeannie was purposefully not "trying to sound smart." If so, I'll concede that she has succeeded in that goal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
44TheLogo
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject:

jeannie might not understand basketball at a deep level, but as einstein once said, if you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.

it's simply good process. they don't have to convince everyone, but if they can't even convince the managing owner then there's a fundamental problem with the underlying reasoning.
_________________
substance over style
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB