Official 2018 NBA Draft Thread: Lakers select Moe Wagner (#25), Isaac Bonga (#39), and Svi Mykhailiuk (#47) - see 1st page for draft links
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject:

Would Aaron Holiday at the Denver pick be possible/reasonable? We need a Holiday on the team damnit. Plus he has chemistry with Lonzo already.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

I am not projecting in this post....I am just illustrating the truth in what took place that night.


Your truth is subject to interpretation on that video. It's different from what I think.


ok, I give up...your claim was "Trae got by Jevon Carter repeatedly"....


And, he did. You define it differently apparently from myself and CZ.


I wish frequent visitors to this thread would take the time to watch and evaluate....then call this bs claim....but we both know that is highly unlikely to happen


Yeah Mike is way wrong on this one.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Young got by Carter but was too weak to maintain his advantage. Once he develops NBA strength (which Carter already has) Young will be able to keep guys on his shoulder/hip once he gets the advantage. everyone is "correct" - Young didn't get by Carter and score, but he did create advantages on Carter which should translate into scoring opportunities once Young's physical profile develops. Context always matters.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
Young got by Carter but was too weak to maintain his advantage. Once he develops NBA strength (which Carter already has) Young will be able to keep guys on his shoulder/hip once he gets the advantage. everyone is "correct" - Young didn't get by Carter and score, but he did create advantages on Carter which should translate into scoring opportunities once Young's physical profile develops. Context always matters.


he got a step on him a few times (which happens in every single basketball game ever played)....couple of them Jevon recovered to prevent him from doing anything....but "repeatedly" simply is not an accurate description of what took place that night....but whatever, I am done with it.....wasn't really even about Mike...it was more about Zwicker and those very high on Young have been rewriting history of that game ever since the dust settled.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject:

Porter Jr. definitely does not have the lift/explosion he showed in high school (assume that will return by next season)....but his shot still looks pure.

I would love for little brother (JP) fall to us....will not be shocked if he is eventually snagged in the lottery.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Porter Jr. definitely does not have the lift/explosion he showed in high school (assume that will return by next season)....but his shot still looks pure.

I would love for little brother (JP) fall to us....will not be shocked if he is eventually snagged in the lottery.


Porter Jr doesn’t look very interested in playing hard. This is the first time I’ve seen him so that makes it pretty tough to get a feel for him as a prospect.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Porter Jr. definitely does not have the lift/explosion he showed in high school (assume that will return by next season)....but his shot still looks pure.

I would love for little brother (JP) fall to us....will not be shocked if he is eventually snagged in the lottery.


Porter Jr doesn’t look very interested in playing hard. This is the first time I’ve seen him so that makes it pretty tough to get a feel for him as a prospect.


Could it be a Ben Simmons/LSU thing? Just not giving his all? I guess Simmons has less going for him since he's not from Louisiana but Porter is from Missouri. Porter has more incentive to play hard with his family and friends all there.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Porter Jr. definitely does not have the lift/explosion he showed in high school (assume that will return by next season)....but his shot still looks pure.

I would love for little brother (JP) fall to us....will not be shocked if he is eventually snagged in the lottery.


Porter Jr doesn’t look very interested in playing hard. This is the first time I’ve seen him so that makes it pretty tough to get a feel for him as a prospect.


Could it be a Ben Simmons/LSU thing? Just not giving his all? I guess Simmons has less going for him since he's not from Louisiana but Porter is from Missouri. Porter has more incentive to play hard with his family and friends all there.


Simmons played harder than people liked to give him credit for. And he had already proven himself all year and was the clear cut best player in the draft. That’s not the case for Porter.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Yeah Mike is way wrong on this one.


Shrug. I pointed out the 4 times he got past Carter in the 1st half and didn't bother with the 2nd half. Everytime I fast forward to the specific times in that Full game, he got by Carter, in Iso, without screen. If anything I found it annoying that it wasn't back to back possessions for several minutes where it was Carter vs Trae with the ball. WVU kept switching.

So now, I really don't understand what the big deal is. That is pretty darn repeatedly.

But I clearly saw a guy that got by Carter with the handle. He's been doing it most of the season, but it was especially evident early in the season when he was spry and healthy. In the end, that's kind of all that really matters to me on the argument.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject:

I hate being stubborn.

2nd matchup Feb 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FOCS4o5S8

Trae Young makes adjustments. Gone are the lousy shots. Instead of 4-7 horrible 3-point attempts, Trae goes out of his way attacking with more success.

2:37, Carter leans on the screen, Trae gets by
6:46, Trae kind of gets by twice on the same play. Teammate blocked the driving lane. Reset. Got by Carter again.
12:30, Self explanatory
39:05 Gets step, by WVU steps in to get in front of Trae, Carter blocks on recovery
1:11:21 Carter pressing too tight, too high, even if Trae hit a shot from 30'. Carter is too upright and Trae has his shoulder past Carter, but WVU help/stunt D tripped

I've got 2 counted stopped drives and a strip on help defense.

If anything this told me everything about Carter. The upside is limited, but you know what you're getting. This is what Derek Fisher 2.0 looks like, except Carter is WAY stronger and has WAY quicker hands. The ability to strip mid-drive and under the hoop is underrated. Needs to play next to a ball-dominant/scoring wing.

Carter's lateral doesn't show in Isolation. Maybe he's too upright in defensive posture, but he has zero issues providing great team help.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I hate being stubborn.

2nd matchup Feb 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FOCS4o5S8

Trae Young makes adjustments. Gone are the lousy shots. Instead of 4-7 horrible 3-point attempts, Trae goes out of his way attacking with more success.

2:37, Carter leans on the screen, Trae gets by
6:46, Trae kind of gets by twice on the same play. Teammate blocked the driving lane. Reset. Got by Carter again.
12:30, Self explanatory
39:05 Gets step, by WVU steps in to get in front of Trae, Carter blocks on recovery
1:11:21 Carter pressing too tight, too high, even if Trae hit a shot from 30'. Carter is too upright and Trae has his shoulder past Carter, but WVU help/stunt D tripped

I've got 2 counted stopped drives and a strip on help defense.

If anything this told me everything about Carter. The upside is limited, but you know what you're getting. This is what Derek Fisher 2.0 looks like, except Carter is WAY stronger and has WAY quicker hands. The ability to strip mid-drive and under the hoop is underrated. Needs to play next to a ball-dominant/scoring wing.

Carter's lateral doesn't show in Isolation. Maybe he's too upright in defensive posture, but he has zero issues providing great team help.


yep. jevon carter is derek fisher. fine pick if that's what we end up with. but i'm aiming for someone who moves the needle a bit more, even if it's riskier.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Would Aaron Holiday at the Denver pick be possible/reasonable? We need a Holiday on the team damnit. Plus he has chemistry with Lonzo already.


Magic just saw him play a great game in person. He might take him with the Cleveland pick if it stays in the mid 20s. I don't think he'll be there for the Denver 2nd rounder. Even they collapse down the stretch, they wouldn't catch the tanking teams.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject:

Vishnu wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Would Aaron Holiday at the Denver pick be possible/reasonable? We need a Holiday on the team damnit. Plus he has chemistry with Lonzo already.


Magic just saw him play a great game in person. He might take him with the Cleveland pick if it stays in the mid 20s. I don't think he'll be there for the Denver 2nd rounder. Even they collapse down the stretch, they wouldn't catch the tanking teams.


Hoping we can get him. Would be a nice backup PG.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject:

I would take Aaron Holiday in the last 1st.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject:

There will be a lot of PG talent available in this draft. I'm.still hoping for a center with some athleticism and potential defense. Mitchell Robinson, Brandon McCoy Robert Williams (though undersized), Daniel Gafford,, Wendell Carter, or heck even Nik Richards if he was to declare. Just feels like there will be talent at the Denver pick at the PG spot that you won't be able to get from the 5 spot.

Carter, Holiday, Keenan Evans, Jaylen Adams,Shake Milton. These are all Pg's who could be available at the Denver pick who would make fine backups.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject:

look at that range.....

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=22696249
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I hate being stubborn.2nd matchup Feb 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FOCS4o5S8


I have tried to let this go....but it seems you have other ideas. Here is the problem, and has been the problem since I first disagreed with your statement...there has been countless attempts to move the goalposts. Nobody said anything about February 5th.....nobody said anything about what type of prospects players would be.....nobody said anything about Carter being a better basketball player than Young.....so you can pull Jevon's high school tape or tell what he ate for breakfast....and all that is as irrelevant as this post to the original disagreement.

Btw, on February 5th....you should have noticed that the defensive scheme had totally changed for WVU....it was not about shutting down Young, but taking away his play making abilities and teammates. How many assists did Trae Young have that game....the same Trae Young that led the country in assists? 1...he had 1 single assist and 6 Turnovers. Do you know what that is called my friend? Success.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
There will be a lot of PG talent available in this draft. I'm.still hoping for a center with some athleticism and potential defense. Mitchell Robinson, Brandon McCoy Robert Williams (though undersized), Daniel Gafford,, Wendell Carter, or heck even Nik Richards if he was to declare. Just feels like there will be talent at the Denver pick at the PG spot that you won't be able to get from the 5 spot.

Carter, Holiday, Keenan Evans, Jaylen Adams,Shake Milton. These are all Pg's who could be available at the Denver pick who would make fine backups.


Do I smell a Marshall fan?
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
yep. jevon carter is derek fisher. fine pick if that's what we end up with. but i'm aiming for someone who moves the needle a bit more, even if it's riskier.


instead of giving bad takes on Jevon Carter, make yourself useful and respond to my question about Sags Konate. I know I have asked Mike in the past....and asked in general....and never get a response. I am sincerely trying to figure out does this guy have a place in the NBA whenever he declares. If he was 6'11", I would not even question it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:44 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
Kevin Pelton's modeled projections for 2018 draft class (ESPN insider): http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/22680098/projecting-trae-young-marvin-bagley-top-prospects-2018-nba-draft-kevin-pelton

this excludes international prospects.

1. Jaren Jackson Jr.
2. DeAndre Ayton
3. Mo Bamba
4. Trae Young
5. Marvin Bagley III
6. Jontay Porter
7. Wendell Carter
8. Robert Williams
9. Mikal Bridges
10. De'Anthony Melton
11. Daniel Gafford
12. Miles Bridges
13. Jacob Evans
14. Shamorie Ponds
15. Markus Howard
16. John Konchar
17. Lonnie Walker IV
18. Troy Brown
19. Collin Sexton
20. Landry Shamet
21. Udoka Azubuike
22. Nick Ward
23. Kevin Knox
24. Kevin Hervey
25. Zhaire Smith
26. Kevin Huerter
27. Ethan Happ
28. Sagaba Konate
29. Nickeil Alexander-Walker
30. Dedric Lawson

For some perspective, here's how his model rated the top 10 from the 2012-2015 drafts:

2015:
KAT
DAR
Porzingis
Jahlil Okafor
Mudiay
Kaminsky
Turner
Hezonja
Stanley Johnson
Tyus Jones

2014:
Smart
Embiid
Parker
Wiggins
Nurkic
Capela
Vonleh
Adams
Gordon
Jokic
(Randle 11th)

2013:
Noel
Bennett
Porter
Zeller
Oladipo
KCP
CJ McCollum
Trey Burke
Lucas Nogueira
MCW

2012:
AD
Beal
Waiters
MKG
Lillard
Sullinger
Drummond
Draymond Green
Crowder
Terrence Jones


I am not impressed with these results!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:50 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
Kevin Pelton's modeled projections for 2018 draft class (ESPN insider): http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/22680098/projecting-trae-young-marvin-bagley-top-prospects-2018-nba-draft-kevin-pelton

this excludes international prospects.

1. Jaren Jackson Jr.
2. DeAndre Ayton
3. Mo Bamba
4. Trae Young
5. Marvin Bagley III
6. Jontay Porter
7. Wendell Carter
8. Robert Williams
9. Mikal Bridges
10. De'Anthony Melton
11. Daniel Gafford
12. Miles Bridges
13. Jacob Evans
14. Shamorie Ponds
15. Markus Howard
16. John Konchar
17. Lonnie Walker IV
18. Troy Brown
19. Collin Sexton
20. Landry Shamet
21. Udoka Azubuike
22. Nick Ward
23. Kevin Knox
24. Kevin Hervey
25. Zhaire Smith
26. Kevin Huerter
27. Ethan Happ
28. Sagaba Konate
29. Nickeil Alexander-Walker
30. Dedric Lawson

For some perspective, here's how his model rated the top 10 from the 2012-2015 drafts:

2015:
KAT
DAR
Porzingis
Jahlil Okafor
Mudiay
Kaminsky
Turner
Hezonja
Stanley Johnson
Tyus Jones

2014:
Smart
Embiid
Parker
Wiggins
Nurkic
Capela
Vonleh
Adams
Gordon
Jokic
(Randle 11th)

2013:
Noel
Bennett
Porter
Zeller
Oladipo
KCP
CJ McCollum
Trey Burke
Lucas Nogueira
MCW

2012:
AD
Beal
Waiters
MKG
Lillard
Sullinger
Drummond
Draymond Green
Crowder
Terrence Jones


I am not impressed with these results!

His model thought significantly higher of Jokic and Draymond than anyone else would have had them, so maybe there's something to it in terms of finding those "hidden gem" types. But at the top, there's some pretty bad projections..
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:24 am    Post subject:

^
I'm also having a hard time coming to grips with Ethan Happ being ranked at #27. I might have to undergo some type of counseling.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:39 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
There will be a lot of PG talent available in this draft. I'm.still hoping for a center with some athleticism and potential defense. Mitchell Robinson, Brandon McCoy Robert Williams (though undersized), Daniel Gafford,, Wendell Carter, or heck even Nik Richards if he was to declare. Just feels like there will be talent at the Denver pick at the PG spot that you won't be able to get from the 5 spot.

Carter, Holiday, Keenan Evans, Jaylen Adams,Shake Milton. These are all Pg's who could be available at the Denver pick who would make fine backups.


Do I smell a Marshall fan?


I was actually talking about Jevon, but yes I am actually a Marshall fan first. But WVU is my 1b. I actually like Konate a lot too tbh. I think he has everything you need want in a backup small ball 4 and is honestly the motor that makes that team.work defensively.

What do you think about the upside of Maciej Bender?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
I'm also having a hard time coming to grips with Ethan Happ being ranked at #27. I might have to undergo some type of counseling.


Why? Good feet, good coordination, solid post moves with counters, smart passer, handles the ball fluidly in the open court, tries to play defense. Not sure what's not to like. Guys like Happ are just the type who end up slipping because of perceived weaknesses and lack of upside then make the league and get some.NBA training, work on their body and ultimately end up succeeding.

Fluid ball-handler in face-up attack situations. Can execute quick right-to-left spins in traffic and shows advanced dribble move ability with crossovers and hesitations especially. Has the handling coordination to operate as the pick-and-roll handler in 4/5 settings in a pinch in the NBA.
Rare body control for a big attacking the rim on the move with plus touch with either hand. Uses the basket on reverses well to shield his attempts from being blocked.
Advanced footwork in the post with drop steps and counters built into his game already.
Really adept passer on the move and out of the post. Combines rare vision for a big with plus decision-making. Makes high velocity skip passes regularly and can read defenses from any position on the court.
Excels on fake dribble hand-offs and has the hips to excel here at the next level.
Outstanding hands catching in traffic and makes himself available either in the post or on short rolls.
High effort screener who can really read defensive pick-and-roll coverages (slip opportunities) and dives smartly and quickly to the basket making himself available.
Intelligent and instinctual player, especially on the offensive glass where he’s incredibly quick to ball.
Light on his feet defending the perimeter and has some twitch to his game quickly reacting to perimeter ball-handlers.
Active hands swiping at balls and stays aggressive playing passing angles on-ball.
Technically sound defender who stunts in pick-and-roll and flinches at attacking guards before recovering to his man to halt dribble-penetration.
Solid awareness boxing out and attacking the glass. Quick to the ball.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:52 am    Post subject:

Man, Aaron played well this year.
He's gonna be 22 this year though.
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