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Super Mega Team
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 3877
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| jg77 wrote: | | I don't think Lonzo is ever going to be a decent scorer. He should be able to hit the 3 at a decent rate ever season and to me that's perfectly fine. Besides scoring all facets of his game are above average and he's just a rookie. I think he's the perfect PG for us. |
He's 19, I don't know about that. You can look at Jason Kidd's first year numbers and say the same thing.
I was definitely frustrated on the layups he passed up though. |
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Christopher Walken
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: |
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We all seem to notice he seems to play better on the road, I wonder if there's just too many distractions in his life:
Mom still has a speech impediment from having a stroke, a daily reminder of fragility.
Pregnant GF? that would bum out any 20 year old IMO.
Rap album? constant updates/meeting with your team of publicists.
He gets to escape all this stuff on the road. Not only does he need a shooting doctor in the offseason, he needs a real doctor this offseason- a Psychiatrist, just someone to talk to and get stuff off your chest in a clinical fashion. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | I don’t see it the same way as a lot of you guys. Imo Lonzo is just a PASS FIRST point guard. Meaning scoring is an afterthought for him and it’s going to have its own issues. The same as a shoot first player missing open players and forcing up bad shots . Lonzo is gonna pass up open looks to force the ball to teammates that may not be open. It’s a mentality that will only be fixed by constantly reading and reacting rather than doing what comes naturally. It’s something that will be fixed with experience and film imo
He will learn that scoring the ball will open up his oassing game. It’s similar to Ingram driving to open up his jumper, or Randle shooting to open up his drive. Once you get scouted it’s important to work on your weakness (or percieved weakness in Ingram’s case) in order to play your game.
Ps I understand that Randle is still driving non stop and not shooting yet, but that’s more because of personel and coaching than anything he’s doing. He’s always surrounded by shooters so it opens up his game because he can’t be guarded 1v1. |
^^excellent breakdown and that is the issue. it will and has always been an issue with pass first guys. even bron as big/strong/athletic as he was when he came in, use to over pass in key moments. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | deal wrote: | | tgi_friyay wrote: | | deal wrote: | Lakers need to give Lonzo an ultimatum; either he takes the
off season to actually learn how to shot or they just can't have
him closing games. Every team in the league will start the Hack-a-Lonzo
given his low probablity to hit a FT.
The kid has talent but he will need to round off his game or it will
cost the Lakers in the long run.
The alternative is to keep have a really good back up that can close
the games, which is kind of ridiculous. |
He's a 20 year old rookie.
Let's have a look at DeAndre's FT% since 2014-15.
39.7%
43.0%
48.2%
61.4%
Lonzo will be fine. Chill Winstahhhhn. |
Lakers are thinking championship in the coming years. You can't
have a guard on the floor that's that vulnerable... teams sit C's that
can't shoot at the end of games. So, sit Lonzo?
He needs to change hits mechanics, improve his
shoot sooner than later, so it actually becomes a habit... |
You have to sit him until he improves |
thats not how the improvement works. and the reason you can't sit lonzo while you can sit centers is because lonzo causes turnovers on the defensive end, can also rebound like a big at times, while also making the right play a lot of times on offense in the last mins of a game. he has too many +++'s to sit him.
lastly. i hate guards that cant make ft's. can't stand it. but the truth is, he will never get over it unless he's forced too. leave him in there. To the point of us losing games because of it. you're not Deandre jordan a high fly act who can swat some shots and is a part of a team. Your the team leader. You better learn how to make those ft's. no excuses. I would keep leaving him out there and he will have to keep losing games. to the point he has to get over it or its all on him when we lose these games. the guys he's supposed to be leading will start looking at him like "come on bro...hit the ft's' this will force him to fold or to go harder and work harder to break out of that mental slump. |
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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: |
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just being a willing and capable passer is not enough. He needs to be a threat to hit an open jumpshot AND be a threat to take it to the paint and finish. If he does not defenses will play him accordingly and limit his impact on offense.
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 16663
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| I don’t know how he’s not embarrassed being a pg and we have to hide him so he doesn’t get fouled to shot free throws. Have some guts folded vs Beverly talking trash, the sixers coming after him, and now against Murray |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144456
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | deal wrote: | | tgi_friyay wrote: | | deal wrote: | Lakers need to give Lonzo an ultimatum; either he takes the
off season to actually learn how to shot or they just can't have
him closing games. Every team in the league will start the Hack-a-Lonzo
given his low probablity to hit a FT.
The kid has talent but he will need to round off his game or it will
cost the Lakers in the long run.
The alternative is to keep have a really good back up that can close
the games, which is kind of ridiculous. |
He's a 20 year old rookie.
Let's have a look at DeAndre's FT% since 2014-15.
39.7%
43.0%
48.2%
61.4%
Lonzo will be fine. Chill Winstahhhhn. |
Lakers are thinking championship in the coming years. You can't
have a guard on the floor that's that vulnerable... teams sit C's that
can't shoot at the end of games. So, sit Lonzo?
He needs to change hits mechanics, improve his
shoot sooner than later, so it actually becomes a habit... |
You have to sit him until he improves |
thats not how the improvement works. and the reason you can't sit lonzo while you can sit centers is because lonzo causes turnovers on the defensive end, can also rebound like a big at times, while also making the right play a lot of times on offense in the last mins of a game. he has too many +++'s to sit him.
lastly. i hate guards that cant make ft's. can't stand it. but the truth is, he will never get over it unless he's forced too. leave him in there. To the point of us losing games because of it. you're not Deandre jordan a high fly act who can swat some shots and is a part of a team. Your the team leader. You better learn how to make those ft's. no excuses. I would keep leaving him out there and he will have to keep losing games. to the point he has to get over it or its all on him when we lose these games. the guys he's supposed to be leading will start looking at him like "come on bro...hit the ft's' this will force him to fold or to go harder and work harder to break out of that mental slump. |
Not close, he has to show it in practice first. But if you live in the ‘60’s, sure, set him up to fail. Luckily Luke is smarter than that.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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durden-tyler
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Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| So you say Luke will sit Lonzo in the near future ? |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144456
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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He will just put him as far from the ball as possible in clutch time until he starts hitting FTs.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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BizLA
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Posts: 2368
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Definitely has to change his form this offseason. He will never be a good consistent shooter flinging it like that. It’s just too difficult to control that kind of shot. |
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deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| BizLA wrote: | | Definitely has to change his form this offseason. He will never be a good consistent shooter flinging it like that. It’s just too difficult to control that kind of shot. |
He was drafted and selected to lead a dynasty, that's a lot of pressure on
a kid. However, nows his time, he needs to step up and that pretzel shot
is not cutting it...
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Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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He passed up so many open layups again last night it was like a flash back to the beginning of the year. Is it possible he passes them up (literally) to avoid contact and going to the ft line?
Just speculating here.
Zo is a great young player! I hope corrects this by the end of the season or this summer |
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Megaton
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | He doesn't take it hard to the rim because he doesn't like contact and doesn't want to go to the line. That kind of stuff is holding him back a lot. Hopefully one day he gets over it. |
Nothing that an offseason with workouts getting stronger and putting on more weight can’t fix.
The kid is literally ELITE on every single level besides shooting and free throw shooting. Even shooting wooes, he leads the team in +/- because the team knows he does so much of every other facet of the game that without him, we would be in deep (bleep).
His constant hustle, energy and defense on both ends is amazing. I expect him to have an offseason full of working out, and working with some Lakers trainers on free throw shooting. |
Yeah. That's why I've always liked the JKidd comparisons. They both bring so much to the table other than pure offense. Kidd never was a scoring juggernaut. I don't think Lonzo will be either. However, he'll definitely be a difference maker for a championship contender when he hits his prime.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | BizLA wrote: | | Definitely has to change his form this offseason. He will never be a good consistent shooter flinging it like that. It’s just too difficult to control that kind of shot. |
He was drafted and selected to lead a dynasty, that's a lot of pressure on
a kid. However, nows his time, he needs to step up and that pretzel shot
is not cutting it... |
Actually it has been. Since the beginning of December he’s shooting a solid 36% on 3s with plenty of attempts. That ranks him 6th amongst all rookies who have taken at least 50 3s. He had 1 1/2 months of horrible shooting, then he adjusted and has become a good shooter. He needs to work on his free throw shooting but his “pretzel shot” isn’t the issue you’re trying to make it out to be. But why let facts change your narrative right? |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | He will just put him as far from the ball as possible in clutch time until he starts hitting FTs. |
They often make him the inbounder in these situations which is very smart. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144456
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | He will just put him as far from the ball as possible in clutch time until he starts hitting FTs. |
They often make him the inbounder in these situations which is very smart. |
Exactly, you don’t need to remove him from the game. He can still defend and rebound.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/84fsp3/ramirez_lonzo_ball_was_a_menace_on_defense_last/
| Quote: | Lonzo Ball was a menace on defense last night.
Denver shot just 4-of-21 when guarded by Lonzo, per @NBAcom.
Gary Harris: 4/12. Will Barton 0/6. Jamal Murray: 0/3.
Zo also had 9 defensive rebounds, 7 deflections, 3 steals and 2 blocks. |
It really shows the knowledge of most fans today when they value one thing over literally every other aspect of the game including defense. Praising the likes of Devin Booker despite the fact that with all his scoring, can't carry a team to a win even if his life depended on it. |
HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD BRO. |
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noahp45
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | deal wrote: | | BizLA wrote: | | Definitely has to change his form this offseason. He will never be a good consistent shooter flinging it like that. It’s just too difficult to control that kind of shot. |
He was drafted and selected to lead a dynasty, that's a lot of pressure on
a kid. However, nows his time, he needs to step up and that pretzel shot
is not cutting it... |
Actually it has been. Since the beginning of December he’s shooting a solid 36% on 3s with plenty of attempts. That ranks him 6th amongst all rookies who have taken at least 50 3s. He had 1 1/2 months of horrible shooting, then he adjusted and has become a good shooter. He needs to work on his free throw shooting but his “pretzel shot” isn’t the issue you’re trying to make it out to be. But why let facts change your narrative right? |
Hey don't spit facts at people that only watch 4 minutes of play. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12847
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Not being qualified to really diagnose Lonzo's shooting form, but two things I've noticed -
He's not consistent with how far down he drops the ball when he's bringing it up from his side. That causes variation in where his release point falls with the apex of his jump. Second, though this has gotten better, his footwork isn't consistent and he doesn't always look balanced as a result.
A lot has been made of his form but he has a good touch. Just need to be more consistent in his delivery.
As for the Free Throws, looks mental to me. He just doesn't want to be there and squirts the shot out there.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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Bol
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4045
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| He was hot for a long stretch, then he has a few off shooting games and people jump on him. Kobe had the most beautiful form in the world and he still had plenty of poor shooting nights. It happens. He'll definitely need to be more reliable at the FT line, but he gets so few attempts he's hardly had a chance to adjust. Nothing to freak out about at this point. |
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noahp45
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Bol wrote: | | He was hot for a long stretch, then he has a few off shooting games and people jump on him. Kobe had the most beautiful form in the world and he still had plenty of poor shooting nights. It happens. He'll definitely need to be more reliable at the FT line, but he gets so few attempts he's hardly had a chance to adjust. Nothing to freak out about at this point. |
THIS |
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numero-ocho
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | He passed up so many open layups again last night it was like a flash back to the beginning of the year. Is it possible he passes them up (literally) to avoid contact and going to the ft line?
Just speculating here.
Zo is a great young player! I hope corrects this by the end of the season or this summer |
 You might be on to something. Could also be he's worried about the knee and doesn't want to risk an awkward landing after contact although by the way he flies around after loose balls you wouldn't think it.
I just don't think that the finishing through contact part of his game has been developed yet. We've seen him finish layups with both hands but often avoiding contact. He didn't get to line a lot in his lone season at UCLA and probably didn't need to back in Chino Hills.
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CervantesRises
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Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | He passed up so many open layups again last night it was like a flash back to the beginning of the year. Is it possible he passes them up (literally) to avoid contact and going to the ft line?
Just speculating here.
Zo is a great young player! I hope corrects this by the end of the season or this summer |
This will be his biggest improvement in year 2 I think...he has passed up too many layups and he gets his layup attempts blocked too often because he has a hitch in his release while also not using his body to cut off defensive angles...this is very solvable.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Off Topic Reminder.....Everyone Welcome.....Be Sure to Complete Your NCAA Tournament Bracket!!
When can I complete my bracket?
--After the field is announced on Selection Sunday (March 11th) @ 3:00 PM (Pacific Time) on TBS.
When does my bracket have to be completed?
-- Edits can be made up to an hour before the fist game tips off on Thursday, March 15th @ 9:00 AM (Pacific Time).
How many brackets can I complete?
-- One
What is the Group link?
-- LINK to Yahoo Tourney Pick'em LakersGround page.
What is the Group password?
-- 8Kobe24
**Note**
When you're setting up your bracket, be sure to unselect the "show personal email" box, and make sure your bracket is listed under a username (prefer your LG ID), and not the name on your birth certificate.
Visit the LG Thread - http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=184446&start=0 |
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