Are Isaiah Thomas, Lakers Destined for Offseason Split? Not So Fast.

 
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emplay
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Are Isaiah Thomas, Lakers Destined for Offseason Split? Not So Fast.

Hey all,

Here's my latest at @BleacherReport

Are Isaiah Thomas, Lakers Destined for Offseason Split? Not So Fast.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2764805-isaiah-thomas-may-hate-bench-role-but-lakers-could-make-him-rich

FWIW, I didn't write the headline or URL, lol

Cheers,

EP
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject:

I disagree with some of the things you’ve written in the recent past, but I think that the last four paragraphs of this article are an excellent summation of where we stand.
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cyborgspider
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject:

you're spot-on about the URL and titles, boy, do they take liberties with your work.

Titles henceforth should just be "Eric Pincus writes about [so-and-so]" and I'd still click.
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emplay
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject:

lol
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VicXLakers
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject:

6 mil/6th man is the max imo...
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waterman40
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject:

It's all about Thomas finishing strong this season, to put himself in the best position to get himself a good contract. Personally, I think the market for a microwave guard like Thomas is in the Crawford/Clarkson model of about $12 million a year. I think he takes that kind of a 3-4 year deal, if he gets that kind of money, even if he isn't a starter. His other option is to take a big 1 year deal like Lopez, KCP, or Reddick signed.

I agree, if the Lakers sign LBJ, then Thomas is likely gone for good, just to keep LBJ happy. If PG-13 signs, then I think we offer Thomas a high 1 year deal, in the range of $17 million, and a "prove it year", to show that he is all the way back and worth a multi-year deal in 2019.

Now, if we strike out on both LBJ and PG13, and Thomas finishes this year strong, there might be a willingness to lock him up for a couple of years on a deal, we will see. Basically Thomas and Lopez are both in the same boat, skilled players in a tight market, so they could be back, but they might have to swallow a little pride and dollars to make it happen.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:26 am    Post subject:

About a week ago during a post game interview Coach Walton referred to his organization of the team. I think the team would be in the playoff hunt had they acquired him earlier in the season. Having a player coach with his talent is a great addition. The team wins with him which has been rare this season. Can the Lakers lose Lou Williams, Nick Young and Isaiah Thomas in the span of two years.... Really dumb trades that have haunted the team.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject:

I'm skeptical that the Lakers could re-sign Randle for $14.5 million. If a team offer sheets him, they're going to do so in a way that would make it difficult to match. It's not hard to envision Dallas throwing all their cap at him. Maybe Chicago, despite Markkanen and Portis gives him $20 plus. If someone gives Randle anything in that vicinity, it's going to be impossible for the Lakers to get two max players and keep him, unless they do so this summer (and trade Deng). Two max players in 2019 or one max this summer and one next will be tricky. So if the Lakers land one of PG13 or James, it would make sense to bring back either IT or KCP and then re-sign/replace Lopez even if it means going beyond one-year deals..
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deal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject:

Thanks Eric, good read..thanks

I think IT will follow the money and the starter position during
the off, it wouldn't be very complicated for him to decide. It'll be
an interesting off season.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Let me rant on this for a bit...

I've been an IT fan since he acquired his Mr. 4th Quarter rep on the Celtics. During that period of time, he was as dynamic a PG in the league and a bonafide game-changer. IMO, it takes 2 game-changers on the roster to get deep into the playoffs, and 2.5 to 3 game-changers to win a title.

    IT has proven he was an assassin, and with improved health, he can probably get back to it.
    Jules is showing he has the ability to change the course of a game.
    BI has shown he has the ability to change the course of a game.

    They all do something to move the needle during the course of the game.

For these 3 guys, it's a bit different than say a KCP or a Kuzma in that you can see IT, BI, and Jules recognizing when it is time for them to takeover and carry the team. The other guys can't do this; they can't command the situation.

To me, it's something that takes place between the ears. It's kind of like Kobe's mamba mentality. There are some guys who never get it. There are some guys who get it but then lose it. Witness Derrick Rose whose killer instinct has completely abandoned him.

IMO, IT walks away from the Lakers unless the FO and Luke decides that next season's team is better served with IT as their starting PG.

In this scenario, Lonzo would not necessarily be demoted, but would slide over the 2 as the replacement for KCP. The Lakers would still benefit by having Zo's passing, rebounding, and defensive skills on the floor, but would gain IT's shooting, ability to get in the paint, a better pick and roll initiator, and a much better floor leader.

Disclaimer here: I'm not in love with Lonzo's game. As a UCLA alum, I could name 3 UCLA point guards better than Zo - Russ, Jrue, Collison). There are 2 other UCLA SG's who step in and play better PG than Zo - Lavine and Slow Mo.

I think he does a lot of things well, but leading a team and scoring at will are not among those things. Being able to put his team on his back is not something he can do, at least not at this time, perhaps not ever. I've been off the Zo bandwagon since the Pac 12 tourney loss to UA and the NCAA tourney loss to UK when Zo disappeared in the 2nd half of both games. He was surrounded by good shooters at UCLA (Alford, Hamilton, Holiday) and with Leaf and Welsh camped at the posts, he had a perfect world.

I'm just waiting for the one moment when he can go ISO at the top of the key, ala Westbrook, Kyrie, CP3, Lilliard, Wall, Booker, Curry, Lou Will, etc. and simply break his defender's ankles. These guys do it at least once or twice a game. I'm waiting on Zo to do it once. Perhaps one day he'll ascend to that player, but I'd say it's unlikely, considering he doesn't have very good handles and he can't shoot. Until he becomes a bonafide offensive threat, he'll be nothing more than a role player, which leads us back to IT.

What we're not seeing from IT is his ability to knock down a high percentage of his jumpers, especially from distance. To me, it's damn apparent he still doesn't have his legs. Back when he was healthy, he jumped straight up on his 3 point shot and at times, had the ability to fall back and knock it down. Now a days, he has to propel himself forward with a Leaping Lena (RIP Chick) to get his 3 point shot off; how often have we seen him go straight up with his shot only to result in an air ball?

Once he gets his leg strength back, I feel reasonably confident that he returns to being somewhere in the top 15 best offensive players in the league. IMO, a healthy Isaiah brings as much to the floor as PG13 and the good news is he's already here.

I'd much rather have Jules, IT, and PG13 than PG13 and LBJ. Yeah, I understand a lot of payroll gyrations have to take place, but the emergence of Jules and reemergence of IT as elite players alongside the development of BI, Kuz, and the others, maybe even Zo, would be a much more compelling story line for me. Perhaps others feel the same way.

If we bring in LBJ and we fail to win a championship in years 1, 2, or 3, these players will carry the stain of failure. In the meantime, Lebron can simply wash his hands of the whole thing and walk away, probably back to Cleveland so he can retire as a Cav.

Give me players who are going to retire as Lakers and go into the HOF as Lakers. Therefore, I'd much rather let our young guys including IT build their own legacy rather than piggy-back onto Lebron's.

If the Lakers aren't going to start IT, then they might as well let him go. Backup PG's are a dime a dozen, so are backup SG's. There's plenty of okie dokey PG's out there who probably would come in at the vet's minimum or less.

Rajon Rondo
Derrick Rose
Jarrett Jack
Ray Felton
Trey Burke

Or they can use the first round pick and go out and snag Jaylen Brunson, who I think is going to be a great pro and would pair up very well with his former Nova backcourt partner Josh Hart on the 2nd unit. Brunson is better than Aaron Holiday and Jevon Carter, and closer to Colin Sexton and Trae Young in the ability to take over a game and make it rain buckets.

So in summary, if IT stays, he pushes Zo out of the starting PG spot to SG and becomes the leader on the floor.

If Zo doesn't start showing more of an offensive game in season 2, then at some point in time, the Lakers ought to start thinking about moving him early instead of late. We know damn well that big daddy Lavar is going to insist on an early extension and nothing less than max money and years for Zo.
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misterioso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject:

Oh hell. Forgot to say good job on the article, Eric.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Good job on the article, it really helps us know about all the options the Lakers have.

I think the Lakers will stretch Deng, ONLY when they need to free up some money, if they can hold off until AFTER next season, stretching him will only count $3.5 mil against their Cap (for 5 years)..

If no big names sign here and the Lakers can resign Lopez and Thomas to big money, 1-year contracts, and let Pope walk. Resign Randle, this guy is too valuable to let go. Then wait and have a look at the FA's in 2019..

PG: Ball
SG: Thomas
SF: Ingram
PF: Randle
C : Lopez

If the Lakers can only sign PG13, I think they should go ahead and let Thomas and Pope walk, but resign Lopez and Randle.

PG: Ball
SG: Ingram
SF: PG13
PF: Randle
C : Lopez

If the Lakers can get LeBron and PG13, they can let Pope, Thomas and Lopez walk, as long as they resign Randle:

PG: Ball
SG: Ingram
SF: PG13
PF: LeBron
C : Randle
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
Good job on the article, it really helps us know about all the options the Lakers have.

I think the Lakers will stretch Deng, ONLY when they need to free up some money, if they can hold off until AFTER next season, stretching him will only count $3.5 mil against their Cap (for 5 years)..

If no big names sign here and the Lakers can resign Lopez and Thomas to big money, 1-year contracts, and let Pope walk. Resign Randle, this guy is too valuable to let go. Then wait and have a look at the FA's in 2019..

PG: Ball
SG: Thomas
SF: Ingram
PF: Randle
C : Lopez

If the Lakers can only sign PG13, I think they should go ahead and let Thomas and Pope walk, but resign Lopez and Randle.

PG: Ball
SG: Ingram
SF: PG13
PF: Randle
C : Lopez

If the Lakers can get LeBron and PG13, they can let Pope, Thomas and Lopez walk, as long as they resign Randle:

PG: Ball
SG: Ingram
SF: PG13
PF: LeBron
C : Randle


Excellent analysis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject:

He's gotta go, I'd much rather have Randle re-signed.
Lopez can go too, also KCP. All 3 will be over paid. I don't even care if we can't sign any all star.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject:

I like IT but I think he's a goner. We won't be able to afford him. Next.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:

If no big names sign here and the Lakers can resign Lopez and Thomas to big money, 1-year contracts, and let Pope walk. Resign Randle, this guy is too valuable to let go. Then wait and have a look at the FA's in 2019..


Then again, KCP with his two-way game and team-friendly attitude may well be more valuable to the Lakers next season than IT.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
I like IT but I think he's a goner. We won't be able to afford him. Next.

Not just the money the hip issue looks ongoing.Feel bad for the guy.


Last edited by ShowtimeReturns on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject:

time to shut him down for his and our sakes
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject:

I think he had a chance to win the hearts of LA and team, but It didn't happen. We needed to make the playoffs or be right in the thick of things till the end. But we are completely out of it and he hasn't played well. The Randle incident was not good either. Hard to take orders from someone who doesn't play much D. That would okay like last year with Boston because he more than made up for it offensively. When you're not a great defensive player, but you think you're alpha, and your game isn't backing it up... not a good mix.
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