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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd say KCP's value is probably 10-12m/year tops. |
He'll definitely get more than that. 2-way wing with over 40% three point shooters get good contracts. |
Doubtful. It's a really restricted cap market right now, not sure a team is plopping 15m/year for him.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd say KCP's value is probably 10-12m/year tops. |
He'll definitely get more than that. 2-way wing with over 40% three point shooters get good contracts. |
KCP's play aside, won't his value be largely determined by 2 factors outside of his control. First, the fact that only a handful of teams are projected to have cap room in 2018 and second the amount of big name FAs that are going to be available in 2018/2019.
Would a team max KCP in 2018 and preclude itself from participating in the max FA sweepstakes in 2019? |
A lot of teams know they can't participate in the max FA sweepstakes. The small market teams can't woo Paul George or LeBron so they have to throw big money at the 2nd tier players. |
Which teams are going to throw 15m/year at KCP?
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | Would a team max KCP in 2018 and preclude itself from participating in the max FA sweepstakes in 2019? |
Max, no. But offer large contract, definitely. There are very few teams that can get away with punting cap space. Dallas and LA are among the few ones to do so repeatedly. Not all owners/FO's (can) do that
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Hmm alright then.
Perhaps we can really luck out with some cheaper-than-deserved contracts because of the lack of teams with cap room
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Pacers have Oladipo.
Lakers have other cap plans.
Bulls have Lavine.
Doubt Mavs are paying 15m to KCP.
Hawks maybe? But they have Bazemore at the same price.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd say KCP's value is probably 10-12m/year tops. |
He'll definitely get more than that. 2-way wing with over 40% three point shooters get good contracts. |
KCP's play aside, won't his value be largely determined by 2 factors outside of his control. First, the fact that only a handful of teams are projected to have cap room in 2018 and second the amount of big name FAs that are going to be available in 2018/2019.
Would a team max KCP in 2018 and preclude itself from participating in the max FA sweepstakes in 2019? |
A lot of teams know they can't participate in the max FA sweepstakes. The small market teams can't woo Paul George or LeBron so they have to throw big money at the 2nd tier players. |
Which teams are going to throw 15m/year at KCP? |
Philadelphia gave Redick a $23 million contract. If they could get KCP for 2/3 of that to replace him, that would be a steal. I could see a team like Atlanta or Dallas paying him too. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd say KCP's value is probably 10-12m/year tops. |
He'll definitely get more than that. 2-way wing with over 40% three point shooters get good contracts. |
KCP's play aside, won't his value be largely determined by 2 factors outside of his control. First, the fact that only a handful of teams are projected to have cap room in 2018 and second the amount of big name FAs that are going to be available in 2018/2019.
Would a team max KCP in 2018 and preclude itself from participating in the max FA sweepstakes in 2019? |
A lot of teams know they can't participate in the max FA sweepstakes. The small market teams can't woo Paul George or LeBron so they have to throw big money at the 2nd tier players. |
Which teams are going to throw 15m/year at KCP? |
Philadelphia gave Redick a $23 million contract. If they could get KCP for 2/3 of that to replace him, that would be a steal. I could see a team like Atlanta or Dallas paying him too. |
Yeah, 76ers, especially with Bradley out again with injury. But I'm not sure they'd commit that much long term more than 1 year.
I don't see Dallas doing it, and ATL has Bazemore who is eating the same cap space up at SG.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd say KCP's value is probably 10-12m/year tops. |
He'll definitely get more than that. 2-way wing with over 40% three point shooters get good contracts. |
KCP's play aside, won't his value be largely determined by 2 factors outside of his control. First, the fact that only a handful of teams are projected to have cap room in 2018 and second the amount of big name FAs that are going to be available in 2018/2019.
Would a team max KCP in 2018 and preclude itself from participating in the max FA sweepstakes in 2019? |
A lot of teams know they can't participate in the max FA sweepstakes. The small market teams can't woo Paul George or LeBron so they have to throw big money at the 2nd tier players. |
Atlanta and Chicago are two good examples. Teams that are tanking and have cap space, using it on a player or two like we did with KCP I could see happening.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd say KCP's value is probably 10-12m/year tops. |
He'll definitely get more than that. 2-way wing with over 40% three point shooters get good contracts. |
KCP's play aside, won't his value be largely determined by 2 factors outside of his control. First, the fact that only a handful of teams are projected to have cap room in 2018 and second the amount of big name FAs that are going to be available in 2018/2019.
Would a team max KCP in 2018 and preclude itself from participating in the max FA sweepstakes in 2019? |
A lot of teams know they can't participate in the max FA sweepstakes. The small market teams can't woo Paul George or LeBron so they have to throw big money at the 2nd tier players. |
Atlanta and Chicago are two good examples. Teams that are tanking and have cap space, using it on a player or two like we did with KCP I could see happening. |
But they have to re-sign Lavine, and ATL has Baze making 15-16m at SG already. Doubtful.
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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deleted double post
Last edited by Vanquish on Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Philly are in the same situation as us. They have an arguably more talented young team in need of a max vet talent. They're definitely going after Lebron. If they strike out, they might give KCP a one year deal at 15 mil + but I think a multiyear deal is out of the question. They would want to be in the 2019 sweepstakes. |
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markjay
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:52 am Post subject: |
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This is going to sound crazy, but I'm wondering whether KCP could provide better value to the team then Paul George.
Hear me out.
First, compare their stats for this season:
link
You'll note that KCP's true shooting percentage (.566 compared to .574), field goal percentage (.434 to .438) and 3 point percentage (.391 to .479) are almost the same as PG's. But this includes that bad stretch of games when he was in jail. If both of them keep playing like they are playing now, KCP could pass PG in all three areas by the end of the season.
PG has the reputation of being a star on defense, but interestingly KCP's DBPM at 0.5 is much better than PG's at 0.1.
Plus, KCP is nearly 3 years younger than PG. KCP turned 25 in February. PG will turn 28 in May. This means more room for improvement, and also for staying with this core longterm
Plus KCP likes to play the 2, leaving Ingram for the 3. This is not critically important, but another minor point.
Finally, KCP could probably be signed for perhaps half the cost of PG. This is something that could make the difference in whether we could resign IT, or sign LeBron while keeping Randle, or sign another player. Or it could simply mean less financial pressure 3-4 years down the road when our young guys advance to their next contracts.
I know that it has been ingrained in my mind and everybody else's that PG is a key off-season target, and KCP is a rental, but let's see how KCP plays the next 15 games. If he keeps up his amazing play, then maybe it is not a fluke and maybe he is just finding himself--in which case he might be worth keeping, even at the cost of PG.
Last edited by markjay on Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | Philly are in the same situation as us. They have an arguably more talented young team in need of a max vet talent. They're definitely going after Lebron. If they strike out, they might give KCP a one year deal at 15 mil + but I think a multiyear deal is out of the question. They would want to be in the 2019 sweepstakes. |
Right. 1 year deal. We would probably consider him with a 1 year big deal too if we struck out on max FAs also.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| markjay wrote: | This is going to sound crazy, but I'm wondering whether KCP could provide better value to the team then Paul George.
Here me out.
First, compare their stats for this season:
link
You'll note that KCP's true shooting percentage (.566 compared to .574), field goal percentage (.434 to .438) and 3 point percentage (.391 to .479) are almost the same as PG's. But this includes that bad stretch of games when he was in jail. If both of them keep playing like they are playing now, KCP could pass PG in all three areas by the end of the season.
PG has the reputation of being a start on defense, but interestingly KCP's DBPM at 0.5 is much better than PG's at 0.1.
Plus, KCP is nearly 3 years younger than PG. KCP turned 25 in February. PG will turn 28 in May. This means more room for improvement, and also for staying with this core longterm
Plus KCP likes to play the 2, leaving Ingram for the 3. This is not critically important, but another minor point.
Finally, KCP could probably be signed for perhaps half the cost of PG. This is something that could make the difference in whether we could resign IT, or sign LeBron while keeping Randle, or sign another player. Or it could simply mean less financial pressure 3-4 years down the road when our young guys advance to their next contracts.
I know that it has been ingrained in my mind and everybody else's that PG is a key off-season target, and KCP is a rental, but let's see how KCP plays the next 15 games. If he keeps up his amazing play, then maybe it is not a fluke and maybe he is just finding himself--in which case he might be worth keeping, even at the cost of PG. |
Understood, but PG13 is a tier above KCP. Check their playoff stats for example. PG13 went toe to toe with a prime LBJ when he was on the Pacers. And last year he was a monster too by himself. KCP? Not so much. He's a nice role player, but we're going big game hunting.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Why not have both?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not have both? |
Why would KCP agree?
Lonzo
PG13/KCP/Hart
BI
I think he wants to continue starting.
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatever happens with KCP, I have to say, I give him a ton of credit for not playing like a mercenary gunning for his next big contract. I feel hes really made an effort to integrate himself in the team and our system. I will salute him when/if he leaves and root for him against every team but the Lakers. |
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durden-tyler
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | Whatever happens with KCP, I have to say, I give him a ton of credit for not playing like a mercenary gunning for his next big contract. I feel hes really made an effort to integrate himself in the team and our system. I will salute him when/if he leaves and root for him against every team but the Lakers. |
Definitly, he's playing for his next contract, but he almost never plays hero ball or try to showcase himself. Too bad for him that there won't be a lot of team with tons of money to spend next summer... |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| markjay wrote: | This is going to sound crazy, but I'm wondering whether KCP could provide better value to the team then Paul George.
Here me out.
First, compare their stats for this season:
link
You'll note that KCP's true shooting percentage (.566 compared to .574), field goal percentage (.434 to .438) and 3 point percentage (.391 to .479) are almost the same as PG's. But this includes that bad stretch of games when he was in jail. If both of them keep playing like they are playing now, KCP could pass PG in all three areas by the end of the season.
PG has the reputation of being a start on defense, but interestingly KCP's DBPM at 0.5 is much better than PG's at 0.1.
Plus, KCP is nearly 3 years younger than PG. KCP turned 25 in February. PG will turn 28 in May. This means more room for improvement, and also for staying with this core longterm
Plus KCP likes to play the 2, leaving Ingram for the 3. This is not critically important, but another minor point.
Finally, KCP could probably be signed for perhaps half the cost of PG. This is something that could make the difference in whether we could resign IT, or sign LeBron while keeping Randle, or sign another player. Or it could simply mean less financial pressure 3-4 years down the road when our young guys advance to their next contracts.
I know that it has been ingrained in my mind and everybody else's that PG is a key off-season target, and KCP is a rental, but let's see how KCP plays the next 15 games. If he keeps up his amazing play, then maybe it is not a fluke and maybe he is just finding himself--in which case he might be worth keeping, even at the cost of PG. |
I like it, but the difference between KCP and George is that george can create his own shot. That's what separates the two. As a result, george can close games out by himself. KCP is extremely inconsistent in the fourth shooting wise. So we could keep KCP definitely, but then someone else on the team would need to be a reliable option in the fourth. If we bring in george we know we have someone who can be that. If we don't, then we would need randle, ball or ingram to be that player. Or if we keep thomas as well we can have thomas be that player.
In other words, keeping KCP seems to me like a good plan IF we also keep thomas
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| markjay wrote: | This is going to sound crazy, but I'm wondering whether KCP could provide better value to the team then Paul George.
Here me out.
First, compare their stats for this season:
link
You'll note that KCP's true shooting percentage (.566 compared to .574), field goal percentage (.434 to .438) and 3 point percentage (.391 to .479) are almost the same as PG's. But this includes that bad stretch of games when he was in jail. If both of them keep playing like they are playing now, KCP could pass PG in all three areas by the end of the season.
PG has the reputation of being a start on defense, but interestingly KCP's DBPM at 0.5 is much better than PG's at 0.1.
Plus, KCP is nearly 3 years younger than PG. KCP turned 25 in February. PG will turn 28 in May. This means more room for improvement, and also for staying with this core longterm
Plus KCP likes to play the 2, leaving Ingram for the 3. This is not critically important, but another minor point.
Finally, KCP could probably be signed for perhaps half the cost of PG. This is something that could make the difference in whether we could resign IT, or sign LeBron while keeping Randle, or sign another player. Or it could simply mean less financial pressure 3-4 years down the road when our young guys advance to their next contracts.
I know that it has been ingrained in my mind and everybody else's that PG is a key off-season target, and KCP is a rental, but let's see how KCP plays the next 15 games. If he keeps up his amazing play, then maybe it is not a fluke and maybe he is just finding himself--in which case he might be worth keeping, even at the cost of PG. |
It depends on your time frame. Right now George is the better player. In 3 years, it could be KCP.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not have both? |
Why would KCP agree?
Lonzo
PG13/KCP/Hart
BI
I think he wants to continue starting. |
It should be
Lonzo
KCP
George
Randle
Center
With Ingram off the bench. We have to accept that if the dream comes true and we get PG and Lebron, Ingram wouldn’t be starting.
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Gepetto
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | markjay wrote: | This is going to sound crazy, but I'm wondering whether KCP could provide better value to the team then Paul George.
Here me out.
First, compare their stats for this season:
link
You'll note that KCP's true shooting percentage (.566 compared to .574), field goal percentage (.434 to .438) and 3 point percentage (.391 to .479) are almost the same as PG's. But this includes that bad stretch of games when he was in jail. If both of them keep playing like they are playing now, KCP could pass PG in all three areas by the end of the season.
PG has the reputation of being a start on defense, but interestingly KCP's DBPM at 0.5 is much better than PG's at 0.1.
Plus, KCP is nearly 3 years younger than PG. KCP turned 25 in February. PG will turn 28 in May. This means more room for improvement, and also for staying with this core longterm
Plus KCP likes to play the 2, leaving Ingram for the 3. This is not critically important, but another minor point.
Finally, KCP could probably be signed for perhaps half the cost of PG. This is something that could make the difference in whether we could resign IT, or sign LeBron while keeping Randle, or sign another player. Or it could simply mean less financial pressure 3-4 years down the road when our young guys advance to their next contracts.
I know that it has been ingrained in my mind and everybody else's that PG is a key off-season target, and KCP is a rental, but let's see how KCP plays the next 15 games. If he keeps up his amazing play, then maybe it is not a fluke and maybe he is just finding himself--in which case he might be worth keeping, even at the cost of PG. |
I like it, but the difference between KCP and George is that george can create his own shot. That's what separates the two. As a result, george can close games out by himself. KCP is extremely inconsistent in the fourth shooting wise. So we could keep KCP definitely, but then someone else on the team would need to be a reliable option in the fourth. If we bring in george we know we have someone who can be that. If we don't, then we would need randle, ball or ingram to be that player. Or if we keep thomas as well we can have thomas be that player.
In other words, keeping KCP seems to me like a good plan IF we also keep thomas |
PG can also quarterback a defense in a way that I've never seen KCP do-look at OKC. We have willing & physically capable defenders on this team-seems like most of them are pretty high-IQ in that regard too. Add George's on-floor organizational abilities and everyone out there with him looks better too. Not easily quantifiable but very important-imagine the Warriors without Draymond in that regard.
On KCP, seems like most agree with me that regardless of what he might be "worth" or would have gotten a season or two ago on a longer deal, it's very much a buyer's market this summer. Just like it can help us with Randle, a reasonably priced KCP locked in for a couple of years is an asset- like Nance was this year & Lou W. two years ago. Great to have if PG & LeBron don't both come (and there is no other max player combo I'm truly interested in other than some pipe dream about a trade for Ant Davis) |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I thought he was having a good game until i read the thoughts and ratings lol
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| He does some nice things but he is just one of those players that pisses you off all the time. I doubt he comes back unless we miss out LBJ/PG. Maybe 1 year deal again. I don't see a big market for him either. Hart does everything better than him at this point and cheaper. |
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