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32
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I made a comment after Monday's game that he was having a terrible rookie season. Let me change that to disappointing. He has been inconsistent with his play and he has missed a quarter of the season injured. He has a lot to work on this summer.
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MJST
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | SDLakersFan wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | Injuries can throw a whole team off. Specially a young team. I attribute some of Lonzo’s Struggles to not having Ingram and Hart on the court and also not having a reliable bench to back him up. |
Terrible argument. Wouldn’t having less talented players around him less to a scoring surge? Zo is back to playing hot potato with the ball. As soon as it touches his hands he’s looking to push it up court then hide. Essentially he’s ending the season the same way he started. |
Not really, he's not a scorer with the ball in the hands (yet) |
And likely never will be. But that isn’t why he was drafted, if we were looking for a scorer we would have drafted Tatum. They were looking for a guy to run the offense and set others up and even while struggling on offense, he is doing those things well.
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LakerSD
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BizLA
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Joined: 22 Nov 2017
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | BizLA wrote: | All of LaVar’s kids have terrible forms... How does one allow their kid to shoot the ball like that? How does one even learn to fling the ball from the opposite side like that? He got his son into the NBA so I can’t knock him on that...but jesus the guy can’t teach kids how to properly shoot a basketball.
Look at Dell Curry’s kids...both their forms are textbook. |
Have you seen any LaVar videos 
He throws the ball up from any angle while falling down and his arms and legs are all over the place when he shoots. LiAngelo and LaMelo’s forms look decent when you factor in who their dad is
LaVar only knows 3 things when it comes to basketball: 1. Play fast 2. Shoot from anywhere 3. Drink milk |
Never seen them lol but it definitely makes sense... |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | actually this isnt true. what you guys are doing is hoping for someone to be extremely negative with every thing that our super young players are not good at. Because that would make you feel vindicated.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it does them no favors and it really doesnt do you any favors for a team you SAY you love.
Here's the truth. If someone has an issue with something because they are lazy, thats when you hammer them about it. If thats not the reason why, there's almost no reason to HAMMER a super young team about any of their flaws because most of their flaws wont be around in 3 to 5 years. Why waste your time crying about something that wont even be a problem purely based on growing up? doesnt make sense.
Trudell has talked about Randles lack of energy in years past, he has talked about DLo's lack of effort vs what he says he wanted to become(a start). notice the difference?
The crazy nitpicking is the reason why you have people/fans on LG and the radio losing their minds a year ago talking about get rid of julius and the exact same people are talking about how he's great and we need to keep him. same people/same fans. Trudell is not trying to end up like one of those fans that are easily swayed in any direction. Nor is he trying to be a contrarian for contrarians sake(which a lot of sports media guys are especially covering the lakers.)
Look at it like this. Brandon Ingram was launching up bricks from the ft line, bricks from 3, blowing layups, couldnt take a nice afternoon breeze blowing his way without getting completely unbalanced when going in for a layup/dunk. At times it was pathetic. But guess what he looks like now? darn near a completely different player. Once you see something like that, you start to release if these guys have the talent, and the work ethic they will find a way to become a lot better in that 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th season.
Right now, we have a lot of guys on the team that are work horses. we also have guys that have huge upsides:
Jules:workhorse/ big upside
Zo:workhorse/ big upside
BI: workhorse/ big upside
Kuz:workhorse/big upside
Josh hart: workhorse/decent to good upside
Thomas Bryant:workhorse/decent to good upside
Caruso: workhorse/decent to good upside
Zubac:workhorse/decent to good upside
Ennis: average joe worker/at his ceiling now |
I don't want or expect Trudell to be negative, I just find no value in what he brings. He goes by Lakersreporter but LakersPublicist or LakersSpinDoctor are more appropriate for the service he provides.
Nothing against him as a person since I think he is just doing what the team wants. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | people can reach their own conclusions on how successful Ball's season has been, or how good he can become later in his career.....but I am confident if LG was told that Lonzo would have a 10/7/7 season on 36% shooting & 31% from 3........95% of LG would have been disappointed.
Is it fair to claim that makes it a disappointing season? Probably not, but it's fair to claim expectations built on hype were unreasonable. |
Does that include knowledge of him being one of the best defensive guards in the league and a +1.03 RPM/+1.5 BPM guy overall? Because I would've definitely signed up for that. |
not sure....do not think those type of details would have pleased most general fans in October. Maybe I am wrong. I would categorize his rookie season as very solid, and his outlook as good. His overall offense/box score production has been about what I expected, and those expectations caused me to be labeled "Lonzo Hater #1" during the Fall/ Early Winter months. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Going through 2 years of DLO prepared me for the inevitable backlash by some re: Lonzo. |
DLo was unathletic and slow AF. He’s very skilled but the ceiling is just low. Not to mention is lack of work ethic and his gimpy knee. So no matter what kinda historical stat people are clamoring here to prove their point . Meh, just another good player. |
Nah you’re missing the point. It’s difficult for 19-20 year old PGs to flourish as rookies. |
All this stuff makes me feel better and I do think he is going to pan out, but he does need to improve his shot and he does need to be a real option and threat to shoot when the game is on the line.
One of the problems I have is that I actually witnessed Jerry West, Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant play as rookies and they ALL had a better start than this.
Kobe started a bit slow but showed a ton of upside along with brilliant athletic moves. Jerry was fairly polished as a rookie but developed a ton over the first summer. Magic gets my vote as the best rookie who ever lived. He was the most polished rookie of all time.
So far, IMHO, Lonzo has had a promising but underwhelming first year. I had much higher expectations. When he has played well, he has met them, but he has been too inconsistent. |
you said you saw the logo, magic and mamba when they were rookies.
Who did the logo play with his rookie season?
Who did magic play with his rookie season?
Who did mamba play with his rookie season?
IT MATTERS, unless you're lebron james(the size of a pf, dribbling like a guard, and moving as quick as a guard. )
Lastly, those 3 guys are more scorer than they were pass first pg's. Magic to me was the ultimate pg because he was neither pass first nor score first. You didnt know what he was going to do at any given moment. He could score with the best of them if need be, but he loved to pass...especially to deserving teammates(the laker team he played for his rookie season had a lot of those guys).
Zo on the other hand is and always has been a pass first pg that can score a bit. There is a difference.
JW ran point at times but was still a born shooter/scorer that could pass
Kobe was a born scorer that could pass.
zo is more in line with Jkidd than he is magic johnson. Now there is something going on in his head which is the reason for so many bricked open 3's and bricked freethrows. you dont shoot 80% in high school then drop down to slightly below 70 in college then fall off the planet in the nba. No one is guarding you there. Thats mental, bad form and all. |
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BizLA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | people can reach their own conclusions on how successful Ball's season has been, or how good he can become later in his career.....but I am confident if LG was told that Lonzo would have a 10/7/7 season on 36% shooting & 31% from 3........95% of LG would have been disappointed.
Is it fair to claim that makes it a disappointing season? Probably not, but it's fair to claim expectations built on hype were unreasonable. |
Does that include knowledge of him being one of the best defensive guards in the league and a +1.03 RPM/+1.5 BPM guy overall? Because I would've definitely signed up for that. |
not sure....do not think those type of details would have pleased most general fans in October. Maybe I am wrong. I would categorize his rookie season as very solid, and his outlook as good. His overall offense/box score production has been about what I expected, and those expectations caused me to be labeled "Lonzo Hater #1" during the Fall/ Early Winter months. |
I expected somewhere around what he’s averaging... except I thought he’d be putting up 15+ pts a game. Could’ve been possible if his shooting wasn’t awful.
So I guess I have been disappointed. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | All this stuff makes me feel better and I do think he is going to pan out, but he does need to improve his shot and he does need to be a real option and threat to shoot when the game is on the line.
One of the problems I have is that I actually witnessed Jerry West, Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant play as rookies and they ALL had a better start than this.
Kobe started a bit slow but showed a ton of upside along with brilliant athletic moves. Jerry was fairly polished as a rookie but developed a ton over the first summer. Magic gets my vote as the best rookie who ever lived. He was the most polished rookie of all time.
So far, IMHO, Lonzo has had a promising but underwhelming first year. I had much higher expectations. When he has played well, he has met them, but he has been too inconsistent. |
A couple cherry picked fun facts to bolster your spirits:
Lonzo has made more 3s in 48 games than Magic did in his first 9 seasons combined. During those 9 years, Magic shot 19.2% from 3 including 0% (0-21) for the entire 82-83 season!
West shot 41.9% on 16 attempts per game as a 22 year old rookie.
At age 20, Kobe regressed to 26.7% on 3s.
Amongst the 4 players, Lonzo is 3rd in Rebounds, 2nd in Assists, 2nd in Steals, 2nd in Blocks, with the fewest Turnovers and Fouls. |
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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If your basketball fandom favors offense you will probably be disappointed this season.
If you favor defense you will love him.
If you pay attention to both sides you will understand that Lonzo has shown enough on both ends to be really optimistic about. You will also know that he has a lot of improvements to make in order to be the best player he can be but don't they all? |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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my wishful dreaming is that Ball can mold his offensive game from Nash. Nash was never a big rim finisher or slasher yet he used his smarts to still collapse defenses and get into the paint which opened up easy buckets for his teammates. Ball has the potential to match his smarts and is much more athletically gifted. But he is obviously a long ways away from coming close to Nash's shooting accuracy.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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OMG... Magic averaged 52% shooting for his career and put up 42 points against a Sixers team with Dr. J, as a rookie, when Kareem was injured to lead the Lakers to the Championship at the age of 20. When he came back from HIV at the age of 36 after a four year layoff... he still shot at 47%
This is why Magic will always be greater in my mind than even MJ or Kobe.
Those two were better athletes... but Magic was the best basketball player.
I like Zo and still have high hopes but it's blasphemy to compare Magic to Zo right now. Magic actually developed the three at the end of his career... shooting 38% when his knees started giving out. If he didn't get hurt and get HIV, no one would have ever matched his assists records. |
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | my wishful dreaming is that Ball can mold his offensive game from Nash. Nash was never a big rim finisher or slasher yet he used his smarts to still collapse defenses and get into the paint which opened up easy buckets for his teammates. Ball has the potential to match his smarts and is much more athletically gifted. But he is obviously a long ways away from coming close to Nash's shooting accuracy. |
Ball's problem is he's always going 100 miles an hour. He gets himself in bad places because of it. He needs to learn different speeds and reading the defense. He also needs to stop finishing at the basket like he's at the gym. There are a lot of fundamentals he seems to need to learn. |
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pio2u
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deal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | OMG... Magic averaged 52% shooting for his career and put up 42 points against a Sixers team with Dr. J, as a rookie, when Kareem was injured to lead the Lakers to the Championship at the age of 20. When he came back from HIV at the age of 36 after a four year layoff... he still shot at 47%
This is why Magic will always be greater in my mind than even MJ or Kobe.
Those two were better athletes... but Magic was the best basketball player.
I like Zo and still have high hopes but it's blasphemy to compare Magic to Zo right now. Magic actually developed the three at the end of his career... shooting 38% when his knees started giving out. If he didn't get hurt and get HIV, no one would have ever matched his assists records. |
Zo is not in Magic’s zip code. Will he get better, sure. But
Magic is the best PG I’ve ever seen and I’m as old as dirt.
For Zo’s benefit I would not try to compare him with
basketball royalty. In a few years? Who knows. But
not with that pretzel shot he has.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | OMG... Magic averaged 52% shooting for his career and put up 42 points against a Sixers team with Dr. J, as a rookie, when Kareem was injured to lead the Lakers to the Championship at the age of 20. When he came back from HIV at the age of 36 after a four year layoff... he still shot at 47%
This is why Magic will always be greater in my mind than even MJ or Kobe.
Those two were better athletes... but Magic was the best basketball player.
I like Zo and still have high hopes but it's blasphemy to compare Magic to Zo right now. Magic actually developed the three at the end of his career... shooting 38% when his knees started giving out. If he didn't get hurt and get HIV, no one would have ever matched his assists records. |
Zo is not in Magic’s zip code. Will he get better, sure. But
Magic is the best PG I’ve ever seen and I’m as old as dirt.
For Zo’s benefit I would not try to compare him with
basketball royalty. In a few years? Who knows. But
not with that pretzel shot he has. |
Fair. But his pretzel shot is more effective than Magic’s shot. Magic was way better than Zo at his strengths and obviously finishing inside the 3 point line. With that said, zo is a considerably better shooter from distance. Don’t be so sensitive just cause Magic’s name was brought up.
Shooting form is one of the most overrated things in ball. There’s been players with strange shots who shot the ball historically well before. The important things are being consistent with whatever your mechanics are, being able to get the shot off over defenders and being balanced. Zo doesn’t need to change his “pretzel” shot he just needs to work on it. Factually speaking he’s actually been a solid shooter from 3 for the last 4 months. |
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Fortysixn2
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | people can reach their own conclusions on how successful Ball's season has been, or how good he can become later in his career.....but I am confident if LG was told that Lonzo would have a 10/7/7 season on 36% shooting & 31% from 3........95% of LG would have been disappointed.
Is it fair to claim that makes it a disappointing season? Probably not, but it's fair to claim expectations built on hype were unreasonable. |
Does that include knowledge of him being one of the best defensive guards in the league and a +1.03 RPM/+1.5 BPM guy overall? Because I would've definitely signed up for that. |
not sure....do not think those type of details would have pleased most general fans in October. Maybe I am wrong. I would categorize his rookie season as very solid, and his outlook as good. His overall offense/box score production has been about what I expected, and those expectations caused me to be labeled "Lonzo Hater #1" during the Fall/ Early Winter months. |
Akindo is right, most general fans would be more happy if he averaged 15/7/7 on 45% shooting and 38% behind the line and played no defense and had a negative BPM. That’s because most casual fans and a lot of fans here just care about scoring.
I’m with GT, if you told me the RPM and BPM and didn’t include his shooting...I’d have taken it. But I’m more about defense and wins than I am about vanity stats. |
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Already possesses ELITE (yes I said it) rebounding and court vision while already being a very good (and versatile) defender. He has had stretches that demonstrate his offensive capabilities. This kid is going to grow into being something special. We need to be patient. I have never seen a 19 (now 20) year older with more pressure cast upon him. He has pressure coming from everywhere including his draft position, playing for the Lakers, being hyped as almost a savior, having a loud mouth for a father, and pending fatherhood. This kid has big shoulders. |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Fortysixn2 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | people can reach their own conclusions on how successful Ball's season has been, or how good he can become later in his career.....but I am confident if LG was told that Lonzo would have a 10/7/7 season on 36% shooting & 31% from 3........95% of LG would have been disappointed.
Is it fair to claim that makes it a disappointing season? Probably not, but it's fair to claim expectations built on hype were unreasonable. |
Does that include knowledge of him being one of the best defensive guards in the league and a +1.03 RPM/+1.5 BPM guy overall? Because I would've definitely signed up for that. |
not sure....do not think those type of details would have pleased most general fans in October. Maybe I am wrong. I would categorize his rookie season as very solid, and his outlook as good. His overall offense/box score production has been about what I expected, and those expectations caused me to be labeled "Lonzo Hater #1" during the Fall/ Early Winter months. |
Akindo is right, most general fans would be more happy if he averaged 15/7/7 on 45% shooting and 38% behind the line and played no defense and had a negative BPM. That’s because most casual fans and a lot of fans here just care about scoring.
I’m with GT, if you told me the RPM and BPM and didn’t include his shooting...I’d have taken it. But I’m more about defense and wins than I am about vanity stats. |
I honestly think if you are going to give him a certain RPM/BPM and not specify how, this is the best way to do it. He's shown glimpses of improvement on shooting (his shooting percentage is pretty good when left open). Ballhandling and playmaking were always things he needed to work on. But elite defense, really good at taking care of the ball, prescient court vision, and hopefully passable shooting on open 3s (is his 42% on open 3s in 2018 a fluke from a small sample size or a real trend?) is exactly the kind of player you want next to two maxes. He can develop the rest of his skills steadily. |
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noahp45
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | Already possesses ELITE (yes I said it) rebounding and court vision while already being a very good (and versatile) defender. He has had stretches that demonstrate his offensive capabilities. This kid is going to grow into being something special. We need to be patient. I have never seen a 19 (now 20) year older with more pressure cast upon him. He has pressure coming from everywhere including his draft position, playing for the Lakers, being hyped as almost a savior, having a loud mouth for a father, and pending fatherhood. This kid has big shoulders. |
This
Give the Kid some time, it will work out. He is not lazy and he is very humble, he will figure it out. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | Already possesses ELITE (yes I said it) rebounding and court vision while already being a very good (and versatile) defender. He has had stretches that demonstrate his offensive capabilities. This kid is going to grow into being something special. We need to be patient. I have never seen a 19 (now 20) year older with more pressure cast upon him. He has pressure coming from everywhere including his draft position, playing for the Lakers, being hyped as almost a savior, having a loud mouth for a father, and pending fatherhood. This kid has big shoulders. |
This
Give the Kid some time, it will work out. He is not lazy and he is very humble, he will figure it out. |
couple other things:
a family TV show, a mother recovering from a stroke, the whole China/UCLA thing, and Magic proclaiming him the face of the franchise.
Lonzo is just fine... |
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OCWA
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | people can reach their own conclusions on how successful Ball's season has been, or how good he can become later in his career.....but I am confident if LG was told that Lonzo would have a 10/7/7 season on 36% shooting & 31% from 3........95% of LG would have been disappointed.
Is it fair to claim that makes it a disappointing season? Probably not, but it's fair to claim expectations built on hype were unreasonable. |
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I predicted that his numbers would be around 12/7/4. Throw in the unexpected defensive prowess and he has definitely exceeded my expectations. Although, In the back of my mind was the fantasy that he could be at superstar level right from the start. I Have had those same fantasies about every Lakers first round pick since the 90's. |
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DocK36
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Joined: 19 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | deal wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | OMG... Magic averaged 52% shooting for his career and put up 42 points against a Sixers team with Dr. J, as a rookie, when Kareem was injured to lead the Lakers to the Championship at the age of 20. When he came back from HIV at the age of 36 after a four year layoff... he still shot at 47%
This is why Magic will always be greater in my mind than even MJ or Kobe.
Those two were better athletes... but Magic was the best basketball player.
I like Zo and still have high hopes but it's blasphemy to compare Magic to Zo right now. Magic actually developed the three at the end of his career... shooting 38% when his knees started giving out. If he didn't get hurt and get HIV, no one would have ever matched his assists records. |
Zo is not in Magic’s zip code. Will he get better, sure. But
Magic is the best PG I’ve ever seen and I’m as old as dirt.
For Zo’s benefit I would not try to compare him with
basketball royalty. In a few years? Who knows. But
not with that pretzel shot he has. |
Fair. But his pretzel shot is more effective than Magic’s shot. Magic was way better than Zo at his strengths and obviously finishing inside the 3 point line. With that said, zo is a considerably better shooter from distance. Don’t be so sensitive just cause Magic’s name was brought up.
Shooting form is one of the most overrated things in ball. There’s been players with strange shots who shot the ball historically well before. The important things are being consistent with whatever your mechanics are, being able to get the shot off over defenders and being balanced. Zo doesn’t need to change his “pretzel” shot he just needs to work on it. Factually speaking he’s actually been a solid shooter from 3 for the last 4 months. |
Actually what worries me more is his horrific FT shooting, the guy actually shot FT better in high school and in college. A lot of time FT shooting can be mental and you see guys like Shaq, Dwight Howard, Rajon Rondo, work as they might, they never turn into decent FT shooters.
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Doc "Not me, I'm in my prime." |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | Already possesses ELITE (yes I said it) rebounding and court vision while already being a very good (and versatile) defender. He has had stretches that demonstrate his offensive capabilities. This kid is going to grow into being something special. We need to be patient. I have never seen a 19 (now 20) year older with more pressure cast upon him. He has pressure coming from everywhere including his draft position, playing for the Lakers, being hyped as almost a savior, having a loud mouth for a father, and pending fatherhood. This kid has big shoulders. |
This
Give the Kid some time, it will work out. He is not lazy and he is very humble, he will figure it out. |
couple other things:
a family TV show, a mother recovering from a stroke, the whole China/UCLA thing, and Magic proclaiming him the face of the franchise.
Lonzo is just fine... |
And a kid on the way. I think lonzos season overall has been good. Lots of ups, lots of downs, but hey, however you look at it, at least he didnt have a Fultz like rookie season =) |
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