Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.
Fisher is another one.
Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.
Fisher is another one.
Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.
Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...
Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.
That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.
And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.
Fisher is another one.
Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.
Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...
Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.
That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.
And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.
You could plug in almost any other similar caliber player to Pau at a similar stage in their careers and Kobe would still win or at least come close.
Chris Webber, Elton Brand, even LaMarcus Aldridge, etc.
Sure, Pau might have left, but he wouldn't have been a highly sought after max player by any serious contender. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.
Fisher is another one.
Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.
Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...
Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.
That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.
And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.
You could plug in almost any other similar caliber player to Pau at a similar stage in their careers and Kobe would still win or at least come close.
Chris Webber, Elton Brand, even LaMarcus Aldridge, etc.
Sure, Pau might have left, but he wouldn't have been a highly sought after max player by any serious contender.
If we hadn't gotten Pau, would we have gotten a comparable player? And if we had, would we still have won? I don't know. Sometimes things that work on paper don't work on the count. So I don't put a lot of stock in hypothetical guesses.
Anyway, nothing you said would change what I wrote in my post that you responded to
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:49 pm Post subject:
I would never say a player owes all their success to another player....sure some players are more fortunate than others based on situation....but the players still went out on the court and had to perform at a high level.
I would never say a player owes all their success to another player....sure some players are more fortunate than others based on situation....but the players still went out on the court and had to perform at a high level.
Actually, the two guys who jump to mind as benefiting the most from playing with a particular superstar teammate are Scottie Pippen and James Worthy. As honorable mention, I'd list all of the Hall of Fame teammates of Bill Russell with the possible exception of Havlicek.
But would I disparage any of those guys for this reason? No, for the reasons that you state. It's not like they sucked.
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:47 pm Post subject:
this is a bs concept _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.
Fisher is another one.
Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.
Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...
Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.
That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.
And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.
Even if Pau stayed in Memphis he would be a basketball HOFer. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:33 am Post subject:
This might be the dumbest premise Ive read on LG in a while. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8330 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.
Fisher is another one.
Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.
Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...
Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.
That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.
And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.
This is somewhat OT, but if we never got Pau, we probably would've missed the playoffs in 08, and Kobe would've left one way or another. Can you imagine the hit that Dr. Buss' reputation would've taken? Some would've then said he was simply lucky to buy the Lakers right when they drafted Magic and already had Kareem, and that he was extremely lucky that Riley became coach and then West became the GM. Those same people would've also said that when Buss had to build a team from scratch he screwed it up because both Shaq and Kobe wanted out.
Getting back to the topic, in this scenario, would it have been fair to say that Dr. Buss would've then owed most, if not all of his legacy to others? _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Well, I'm thinking he didn't earn them with his dancing skills... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
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