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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | BVH - great post. The thing about generational talents is that they exploit a niche that those before them hadn't exploited, or, at the least, hadn't exploited to the level the new player did. As your post suggests, that's where Ball could fit it. Mitchel, now, and Fultz, at the time of the draft, appear to be more sure things... but Ball's ceiling, because of his unique traits, skills and brain, is harder to gauge and may very well exceed their's as a result |
Cheers, LS!
Building off your post, I thought I'd list areas where Lonzo surprised me and areas where he disappointed me this past season within the parameters of his unique game, not the game that some folks want to see from their ideal lead guard (who likely looks more like Harden, Mitchell, Fultz, Lillard, etc.)
Impressed
Getting to the rim - Lonzo struggled finishing at the rim, getting to the line, and hitting his FTs, which aligned with his college performance and need to be improved upon, but on a team with poor spacing and with Zo mostly lacking a midrange game, he still impressed me by turning the corner out of the PnR against NBA defenders and getting into the teeth of defenses even if he tended to overpass after doing so. With his size and speed, he could develop into a terror attacking downhill against defenses frozen by the threat of his passing vision.
Getting his shot off - it was a question leading up to the draft if his funky form would work at all in the NBA, and I think his shooting from deep off the catch answered that question. After a putrid start, he stabilized his footwork on his shot and demonstrated that his release (despite the wind-up) was quick enough and that shooting from the left side of his face could actually be a benefit in getting his jumper off against NBA defenders.
Defense - nothing more needs to be written here except that his advanced instincts, anticipation, and excellent hands allowed him to be such an impactful defender so early in his career.
Poise and ATR - even though we went through it with DAR, as a fanbase we forgot anew how hard it is to be a young rookie PG in the NBA. And Lonzo faced the nightly gauntlet of elite NBA PGs by often demonstrating poise beyond his years while running the Lakers for 35mpg while posting a very good 2.7:1 ATR. His usage was low, of course, but he still managed to create at over 7apg on an overall below average shooting team while still taking care of the ball. While not totally surprising after following him at Chino Hills and UCLA, it is still damn impressive and should be acknowledged.
Disappointed
Shooting overall - Zo was a skinny rookie adjusting to the pro game, but I was disappointed by 1) his FT shooting, which should've been a huge area of focus for him coming out of UCLA, 2) his 3pt shooting off the bounce, which didn't improve much over the course of the season as did his shooting off the catch, and 3) his dip in 3pt shooting off the catch to end his season before injury. For Zo to reach stardom, those are some of the prime areas he needs to improve since he's unlikely to ever be an offensive dynamo scoring off the bounce - he needs to not be subject to hack-a-Zo late in games, he needs to be very good to elite as a C&S 3pt gunner, and his step-back three needs to become a weapon to really punish teams out of the high PnR.
Injury and energy - Zo plays a high energy game and displayed some impressive stamina at times this season as he did in college, and that's how he generates most of his impact - through smart effort. But I'm concerned at the toll it may take on his skinny frame against pros for 82 games a season resulting in injury and quiet performances. Even though it doesn't look like it, he's almost as skinny as BI, and though his father's bulk may be a positive sign that Zo will eventually gain the strength necessary to play with his requisite controlled abandon for heavy minutes over 82 games a year, I'm wary about his young body - especially his knees - holding up until he can physically mature. It may be nothing in the long run, but it's something to monitor. And his low impact games can be offset with greater offensive skill development so that he can generate some easier points even when he's too exhausted to rack up boards, deflections, etc.
Cutting - Lonzo was an elite off-ball scorer at UCLA, but struggled to make a consistent impact doing so with the Lakers. That was due in part to scheme, personnel, and lack of experience, but Zo also seemed less active than he could've been this season when the ball wasn't in his hands. That's fine if you're James Harden, but Zo needs to find the energy to be in perpetual motion on offense without the ball because he has the athletic tools, size, and instincts to be a real threat as a SG when engaged. The occasional alley-oop won't cut it long-term - he needs to watch non-stop tape of Steph and Klay and work his tail off to get open off-ball next season.
Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo has everything but the jumper and knowing when and when not to attack at times.
Everything else is pretty solid and above average to very above average.
Him becoming a stronger and more efficient finisher will help a lot.
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Lonzo has everything but the jumper and knowing when and when not to attack at times.
Everything else is pretty solid and above average to very above average.
Him becoming a stronger and more efficient finisher will help a lot. |
He didn’t shoot 42% on lay-ups because he wasn’t strong enough.
He needs to be able to make a lay-up and hit his FTs before he worries about his shot. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Lonzo has everything but the jumper and knowing when and when not to attack at times.
Everything else is pretty solid and above average to very above average.
Him becoming a stronger and more efficient finisher will help a lot. |
He didn’t shoot 42% on lay-ups because he wasn’t strong enough.
He needs to be able to make a lay-up and hit his FTs before he worries about his shot. |
Stronger and More Efficient.
Also you'd be amazed how much being stronger can also effect your footwork and your explosiveness going at the basket and having the explosiveness to do so.
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
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Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:41 am Post subject: |
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The gaps perceived, and the ones that are actually real between Ball and his peers will dissipate at a rapid rate. You'll see the same thing with Ingram, though I believe Ball will close the proficiency gaps faster.
Two of our top prospects are going to take a little longer to develop in some areas. I wouldn't allow this to cause any concern. They are actually ahead of the curve in some aspects of the game that will separate them from the pack. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | The gaps perceived, and the ones that are actually real between Ball and his peers will dissipate at a rapid rate. You'll see the same thing with Ingram, though I believe Ball will close the proficiency gaps faster.
Two of our top prospects are going to take a little longer to develop in some areas. I wouldn't allow this to cause any concern. They are actually ahead of the curve in some aspects of the game that will separate them from the pack. |
Yeah. I think BI/Lonzo may take a longer route but in years 4+ I can see them catching up with some of the more physically imposing players who started quicker off the bat.
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Lonzo has everything but the jumper and knowing when and when not to attack at times.
Everything else is pretty solid and above average to very above average.
Him becoming a stronger and more efficient finisher will help a lot. |
He didn’t shoot 42% on lay-ups because he wasn’t strong enough.
He needs to be able to make a lay-up and hit his FTs before he worries about his shot. |
Stronger and More Efficient.
Also you'd be amazed how much being stronger can also effect your footwork and your explosiveness going at the basket and having the explosiveness to do so. |
strength does not effect footwork at all. not even a little bit.
can it help with explosiveness? yes, assuming you are gaining strength or are strong in the right places.
being strong in the upper body but weak in the lower will not give you any speed on your first step. as an example of in the wrong places. or wrong places for explosiveness. and when we talk explosiveness are we talking moving forward on the move or are we talking jumping in the air? two different types of explosive movements. both could be utilized in basketball.
you can be very explosive when jumping but not that explosive when moving forward with the ball.
Proper footwork can make you SEEM more explosive/quicker. People who know where to place their feet in different moments while pushing off the proper foot to get by a guy is key. I've seen super athletic guys with no footwork and a lack of handles not be able to get by guys that I know for a fact are slower than them.
nash didnt look strong in the lower body. but i dont think he was weak at all in that dept. was steve explosive laterally? ehhhh. I think steve had impeccable footwork. so it made us believe he was explosive in spurts.
all in all i'm not saying you dont need strength to help with explosiveness either first step or hops. but I'm saying If i had to choose one. I would choose footwork over explosiveness. and If I had only X amt of time to teach one or train for the other. I'm teaching footwork. just with a ton of footwork training you can apply weights and gain some strength there. probably to the level of a nash, gino, dragic. and to me thats actually enough to get by your man and get into the middle.
Strength in the upper body, can help you score thru contact around the arms, strength in the core and lower body can help you jump thru contact or run thru guys holding you to finish a jumper, layup, etc.
It will also help with zo's rebounding. as good as it is now. he could actually get better the stronger he becomes in all parts of the body.
Zo isnt as sturdy as Josh hart, but they both are very good at rebounding. what happens if/when zo becomes sturdy like josh? uh oh. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10801
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| ^^^^ that may be the shadiest thing I've ever read on the internet |
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Fracture
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Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 9318
Location: Planet Terror
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:10 am Post subject: |
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818fan
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Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 4702
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Hahah wtf is that post. Why on LG? What are her other 25 posts? Does anybody actually get scammed by that? so many questions |
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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | ^^^^ that may be the shadiest thing I've ever read on the internet |
"Your curiosity has landed you in the right place. Please 'search no further'!"
I always knew LG was the place to go to buy an illegal fake passport |
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Christopher Walken
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Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| I think Becky95 is Becky Hammond from the spurs, she's hinting to us the spurs will draft a euro with all the passport jargon... |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Or Australian. Maybe she is hinting that we offer a contract to Exum?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25076
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Or Sudanese, is the Spurs interested in Deng? |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10801
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| she wants us to draft a Nigerian prince who has millions of dollars and will pay us back upon his return home |
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BynumForThree
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Until Lonzo proves he's not useless offensively, he has no right to be used in the same sentence as Magic, Curry or "generational."
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If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | Until Lonzo proves he's not useless offensively, he has no right to be used in the same sentence as Magic, Curry or "generational." |
He already has but I’m not surprised you refuse to acknowledge it or are incapable of noticing it. |
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Christopher Walken
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | Until Lonzo proves he's not useless offensively, he has no right to be used in the same sentence as Magic, Curry or "generational." |
Protip: assists are offense |
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CervantesRises
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Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Walken wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Until Lonzo proves he's not useless offensively, he has no right to be used in the same sentence as Magic, Curry or "generational." |
Protip: assists are offense |
Yep...and so are rebounds...even the defensive ones become an offensive possession.
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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From the Lee Jenkins article:
| Quote: | | Ball’s jump shot was ragged, but his rookie numbers were almost identical to Kidd’s, and the Lakers operated even faster than the Warriors. “When you’re out there with Zo, you get the reason for the hype,” Kuzma says. “He’s not going to wow you with scoring. But if you’re a true basketball fan, you appreciate the beauty of what he does. He gets a rebound, you run ahead, and he throws it like 60 feet without dribbling.” |
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BynumForThree
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | Christopher Walken wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Until Lonzo proves he's not useless offensively, he has no right to be used in the same sentence as Magic, Curry or "generational." |
Protip: assists are offense |
Yep...and so are rebounds...even the defensive ones become an offensive possession. |
Then I guess Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest offensive players of all time.
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If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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http://global.nba.com/news/stephen-curry-and-the-warriors-lead-most-popular-merchandise-lists-for-3rd-straight-season/?cid=trafficdriver:nbacom:homepage
Lonzo Ball cracked the Top 15 of most popular NBA jerseys:
Top 15 Most Popular NBA Jerseys:
Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors
LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
Kevin Durant, Golden State Warriors
Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
Kyrie Irving, Boston Celtics
Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder
Kristaps Porzingis, New York Knicks
Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers
James Harden, Houston Rockets
Ben Simmons, Philadelphia 76ers
Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio Spurs
12. Lonzo Ball, Los Angeles Lakers
Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers
Klay Thompson, Golden State Warriors
Jimmy Butler, Minnesota Timberwolves
That's impressive. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25076
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | http://global.nba.com/news/stephen-curry-and-the-warriors-lead-most-popular-merchandise-lists-for-3rd-straight-season/?cid=trafficdriver:nbacom:homepage
Lonzo Ball cracked the Top 15 of most popular NBA jerseys:
Top 15 Most Popular NBA Jerseys:
Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors
LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
Kevin Durant, Golden State Warriors
Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
Kyrie Irving, Boston Celtics
Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder
Kristaps Porzingis, New York Knicks
Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers
James Harden, Houston Rockets
Ben Simmons, Philadelphia 76ers
Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio Spurs
12. Lonzo Ball, Los Angeles Lakers
Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers
Klay Thompson, Golden State Warriors
Jimmy Butler, Minnesota Timberwolves
That's impressive. |
Well, If Dame Dolla gets bounced in 1st rd and he's sick of being a big fish in lil pond... |
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CervantesRises
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Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | Christopher Walken wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Until Lonzo proves he's not useless offensively, he has no right to be used in the same sentence as Magic, Curry or "generational." |
Protip: assists are offense |
Yep...and so are rebounds...even the defensive ones become an offensive possession. |
Then I guess Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest offensive players of all time. |
You forgot the rimshot...but to your sarcastic point...yes Chuck Daily said DR could have averaged 20 points if he wanted to because he did the most fundamental thing in the game...he controlled the ball. Pat Riley said famously, 'No Rebounds, No Rings'
So I guess it's just a matter of what floats your boat...incredible advanced statistics and ppgs or winning championships.
Would you rather have the new Fat Lever in Booker or the new JKidd in Lonzo?
Give me the guy that can play the team game better than every other rookie and who shows up in the win column.
Rodman and his 5 rings say rebounds matter because they enable offense and winning...which was my point and you knew that.
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- Kobe
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deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Until Lonzo proves he's not useless offensively, he has no right to be used in the same sentence as Magic, Curry or "generational." |
He already has but I’m not surprised you refuse to acknowledge it or are incapable of noticing it. |
Lonzo is a liabilty with that terrible shot right now. This off season
he needs to work on;
- changing his shot, he can practice that pretzel shot to death but
it sucks..change it, period
- practice his new shot a billion times
- gain 20 lbs of muscle & work on his body
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