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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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There’s a simple rule of evidence: claims require evidence, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Pasting together a bunch of anecdotal and dubious evidence and calling people rigid because that doesn’t begin to pass the basic, much less extraordinary evidence standard, is itself evidence, not that the “debunkers” are unloved by evidence, but that the believers are moved without it. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Somebody needs to fill in for Art Bell and inform people of the conspiracy behind there being no Bigfoot thread in this forum yet. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | Somebody needs to fill in for Art Bell and inform people of the conspiracy behind there being no Bigfoot thread in this forum yet. |
Maybe if you did your research and attended symposiums and talked to the eye witnesses then you could admit that the Bigfoot Thread exists instead of being a closed minded thread denier who refuses to see what is right there in front of you.
Now get back on the LC Debunker Bus and try not to spill your Kool-Aid. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Somebody needs to fill in for Art Bell and inform people of the conspiracy behind there being no Bigfoot thread in this forum yet. |
Maybe if you did your research and attended symposiums and talked to the eye witnesses then you could admit that the Bigfoot Thread exists instead of being a closed minded thread denier who refuses to see what is right there in front of you.
Now get back on the LC Debunker Bus and try not to spill your Kool-Aid. |
Couldn't have said it better JMK. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Somebody needs to fill in for Art Bell and inform people of the conspiracy behind there being no Bigfoot thread in this forum yet. |
Maybe if you did your research and attended symposiums and talked to the eye witnesses then you could admit that the Bigfoot Thread exists instead of being a closed minded thread denier who refuses to see what is right there in front of you.
Now get back on the LC Debunker Bus and try not to spill your Kool-Aid. |
Couldn't have said it better JMK. |
And you!
You dirty abandoner!
If you think that running away to go frolic on some god-forsaken island playing golf and drinking beer all day with a heathen is going to make you happy, well...
well
I'm a little jealous. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Somebody needs to fill in for Art Bell and inform people of the conspiracy behind there being no Bigfoot thread in this forum yet. |
Maybe if you did your research and attended symposiums and talked to the eye witnesses then you could admit that the Bigfoot Thread exists instead of being a closed minded thread denier who refuses to see what is right there in front of you.
Now get back on the LC Debunker Bus and try not to spill your Kool-Aid. |
Couldn't have said it better JMK. |
And you!
You dirty abandoner!
If you think that running away to go frolic on some god-forsaken island playing golf and drinking beer all day with a heathen is going to make you happy, well...
well
I'm a little jealous. |
Yep, movin' to the PNW . . . lotta Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) up there ya know. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well big foot always seemed a little farfetched since he lives here you would think he would be easy to find but aliens visiting us never did.
I mean when you think of how big the universe is I just assumed there was atleast one race that could figure out how to visit.
Even Jimmy Carter claims to have seen a UFO, Eisenhower's granddaughter claims that her grandfather met with aliens. Edgar Mitchell (walked on the moon) studied and went down to roswell and after doing so was convinced aliens had visited.
Not saying I have clear proof but they're some crazy videos from nasa spaceships that are a little hard to explain. If I had to guess i would say they have visited but again it's just a guess like asking someone if they believe in aliens i bet most on here would say yes, even without proof by only using their own logic
A little off-topic Elon Musk believes in the simulation theory where we are nothing more than data in a computer simulation. The argument is one of the following three propositions is true:
Virtually all civilizations at our pace of development will go extinct before they reach the technological capability of creating ultra-realistic video games.
Civilizations with such technological capabilities are uninterested in running such computer simulations.
Or we are almost certainly characters living in a computer simulation (because if there is ever going to be a civilization with the capabilites it probably already existed and has already simulated more worlds than they're real worlds) |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:49 am Post subject: |
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unleasHell wrote: | Hello Omar, I'll start a Bigfoot thread (soon) and we can let Art Bell rest in peace (LOL). I would really enjoy discussing it further. This will be my last post in this thread:
Let’s create a scale, based on the top half of a clock. At 12 o’clock you have the “Skeptics” and we’ll define them as people who don’t have an opinion one way or the other, but have an open mind to hearing both sides. At 9 o’clock there are the “True Believers” and we’ll define them as people who wholeheartedly believe UFO’s are real and include UFO witnesses, abductees, researchers, authors, etc. Lastly, over at 3 o’clock are the “Debunkers”. These people typically do not conduct any investigations or interviews they simply read the reports, looking to poke holes in it. Because of this they have zero objectivity.
I started out as a Skeptic (12 o’clock), but my research, reading, attending symposiums, and looking witnesses in the eye as they discussed their encounters, I moved to somewhere between 10 and 11 o’clock. Another fact is: I don’t believe every UFO case is real, I can pick and choose which I believe, while a Debunker does not have any flexibility as they believe that everyone who makes a UFO claim is either lying or mistaken - there are no other choices!
I think it is blatantly obvious where Larry stands. He is sitting there firmly at 3 o’clock, and ready willing and able to attack anyone who does not agree with him. I think he has read some UFO books, I don’t recall if he has ever personally interviewed witnesses, but if he did, I guess it didn’t matter.
Where do you guys stand? At 12 o’clock? Maybe 1 o’clock? Are you willing to look into the subject objectively and make your own decisions?
Like I said before, I really don’t care one way or the other, someone asked me about some UFO cases, which I recommended and Larry was quick to do internet searches on everyone of them – with the word “hoax” after them (I suspect) and found sites debunking everyone of them! He didn’t bother to read the dozens of other sites that have supporting information for those cases because they do not support his point of view. Meaning he is great at searching, copying and pasting, but not so much on investigating, and researching. |
Wow, are you off -- because your whole scale is completely misapplied. You're not measuring the right thing. You're dropping a steak on a scale and wondering why it's so far off measuring the number of calories. Of course, this something I've already explained on multiple occasions, including in what I re-quoted here from previous conversations. But of course you ignore all that and choose to go with your narrative, which is that there's lots of good evidence out there -- but I'm simply "ready, willing and able to attack anyone who does not agree with [me]."
You ignore repeated explanations for the sake of your narrative, and then claim the other side isn't willing to be objective, or can't "discuss it intelligently." And of course, you bring up irrelevant distractions, like when you previously asserted and repeated again in this thread that you can't talk freely because I'm a mod here. I guess you're referring to all those times I deleted your posts or banned you from LG because you stated opinions I disagreed with, right?
I've said this before, I'll say it again now, and I'll probably say again in the future because you have never and likely will never incorporate this into your thinking -- I would LOVE to be wrong about this. Or as Tim Minchin put it in the lyrics to "Storm":
You show me that it works and how it works
And when I've recovered from the shock
I will take a compass and carve "Fancy That" on the side of my c*ock.
And I'm sorry you don't know, continue to ignore, and will likely always be unaware of the difference between what you deem as research and objectivity, and how people approach problems when they actually do research and really are objective. It's not about the belief, it's about the process you use to approach claims. I've asked you about this directly in the past, and of course you've ignored it. How do you separate what is true from what you merely WANT to be true? It's about process, it's about evidence (and being able to separate good evidence from crappy evidence). It's about understanding what alternative hypotheses are, and not merely sweeping them under the rug, or just trying to prop up your own conclusion while ignoring anything disconfirming.
I'm sorry you've never understood that, continue to ignore it, and likely will never understand what I'm saying -- but it isn't for lack of trying. I've even tried explaining it using topics about which you are NOT emotionally invested. How much Flat Earth research have you done? How many books have you read? How many Flat Earth meetings have you been to where you've looked them in the eyes and listed to their stories? Have you just done Internet searches where you looked up "Flat Earth" with the word "hoax" after it and found sites debunking it? Did you bother to read the dozens of other sites that have supporting information because they don't support your point if view? Are you just being TOLD what to think?
At what point do you look at the Flat Earthers and say, "No, you're just not looking at the evidence the right way, you're not following any kind of rational process, and you're ignoring everything that disconfirms your conclusion?"
To which the response is, "No! You're just a debunker who attacks anyone who doesn't agree with him! You haven't done enough research! You haven't read the right books! You haven't been to the meetings! Come to one of our meetings -- I'm sure it will be an eye opening experience for you."
Again, stop it. Your scale is measuring the wrong thing. I'm sorry you don't see that, because you don't understand the difference between your approach to a claim and and a legitimate approach to a claim. Because you keep bringing up crappy evidence, crappy justifications, and crappy excuses, over and over. I know you're sincere in your beliefs, including the belief that you're the one being objective, and you're the one who's taking in all the evidence. But you just don't have the chops to know the difference. And I'm sorry, because I don't mean that as an insult or an attack. You're just not there, so you don't understand the difference, and so you've not only jumped down the wrong rabbit hole, you've wound yourself up in it so you're entrenched in it.
I know you perceive this as an attack on you personally, but I really don't intend it to be. But again, it's not like I haven't tried, over and over. But the ironic thing is that you continue to think YOU are the objective one here, and the one who is attacked. Let's move on to your next paragraph, in which I've emphasized a few things you've written:
Quote: | If you don’t mind being TOLD what to think, then by all means jump on board Larry’s Debunker Bus and grab yourself some of his Kool-Aid. I mean he is a quasi-celeb, on Sports-talk tv/radio, because of his expertise on NBA Salary Caps and a Mod here, so I’m sure there is a huge contingent here that always has to agree with him. The fact is, I used to like the guy, but after his previous attacks, I change the channel whenever he come on and never read his posts. I mean, look at the work he put into trying to disparage me, taking the time to do all those hoax searches and then making huge posts, then going back 2 or 3 years and copying posts to further build himself up and try and make me look bad, it’s boarder line psychotic behavior, but typical for a Debunker! I’m not the only person in the world that believes UFO are of extraterrestrial origin, but I seem to be his main target here. |
So what I see from this:
1. If I disagree with you, I tell you why (and have done so many times in the past) and give you reasons. For you, on the other hand, it's vague hand-wavings. "Told what to think." "Debunker bus." "Kool-Aid."
2. And ironically, for someone who claims I like to attack him, you sure are throwing around a lot of insults.
3. We also have the irrelevant misdirection ("hey, look over there!") It's not about the case I make or the points I bring up. It's about me being "a quasi-celeb," "on Sports-talk tv/radio," etc. If you can't address my arguments directly, you do this...
4. You think it's "boarder line psychotic" [sic] to think, "crap, here he goes again..." and just grab a previous discussion (which took five seconds to find -- you ARE right that I have mad google skills) to make the point that everything you talk about has been discussed here before, and you have shown zero engagement with anything contrary to your beliefs.
Quote: | So if you are a free-thinker and want to look into this on your own, then by all means do so, I promise I won’t tell Larry! Tonight there is monthly OC MUFON Meeting: http://www.mufonoc.org/ I’m sure it would be an eye-opening experience for you.
Final thoughts:
It’s estimated that there are 100 Octillion (a 1 with 29 zeros) in the sky, if 1% of those had planets around them and 1% of those had life on them and 1% of those had life that was more advanced than us on Earth, that would potentially leave hundreds of millions of possibilities. And if these beings were so much further advanced than us, they would not feel the need to contact us anymore than an Earth Scientist studying an anthill in Africa!
So to vehemently fight that we MUST be the only ones in space, makes no sense at all... |
Which is nothing even vaguely approaching what I have actually said. But of course, I've said this before, and you've ignored it before, and you continue to say that I think what you said above -- but of course you're the rational one and I'm the borderline psychotic.
Quote: | Also World-wide there are 6k – 12k thousand UFO reports made per year, that is nearly 500k made going back to the late 1940’s, that’s a lot of people to suspect of lying or being mistaken and if only 1% of them were real, that would leave 5k…hmm |
Yes, and if you're ever really willing and able to approach why this is, the quality of the evidence, the standards for evidence, the real alternatives, the parsimonious explanations, and you're whole approach to truth claims, we'll actually get somewhere. But until that happens you'll continue to say things like the above as though you're making your case, and the rest of us will continue to roll our eyes at you. And you'll still be wondering why everyone keeps attacking you.
Gotta go now -- the debunker bus is about to leave. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:20 am Post subject: |
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I learned a few very interesting things about rationality over the years:
1. Rationality is not strictly a product of intelligence, and thus intelligence is not proof of, or even a significant indicator of rationality. While mental horsepower is helpful in learning (and possibly even seeking) rational skills, it is also a powerful weapon of irrationality. “I’m smart, so I can’t possibly be fooled like that”.
2. People can exceptionally rational in one area and completely irrational in another. Emotional investment trumps rationality in almost all cases. (As a side note, the seemingly simple, yet exceedingly rare ability to identify how emotionally invested you are in something is a profound tool for being able to apply rationality)
3. Irrationality protects itself through excessive pride (I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told that the fact that something that can’t be seen or proven is what makes the belief so great), anger and if necessary, force. That’s why the old saw about not talking religion and politics, two areas of rampant irrationality. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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If you guys get a chance watch
UFOs: The Best Evidence Ever (Caught on Tape) on Neflix
It has some really good video that would even have the most serious of skeptics scratching their heads. I bet within 15 minutes into the first episode you would have a hard time explaining what you just saw. Eitherway its a good watch in the middle of the night when you cant sleep. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67312 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Lucky_Shot wrote: | If you guys get a chance watch
UFOs: The Best Evidence Ever (Caught on Tape) on Neflix
It has some really good video that would even have the most serious of skeptics scratching their heads. I bet within 15 minutes into the first episode you would have a hard time explaining what you just saw. Eitherway its a good watch in the middle of the night when you cant sleep. |
LINK (Don't know if these can be viewed) LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Lucky_Shot wrote: | If you guys get a chance watch
UFOs: The Best Evidence Ever (Caught on Tape) on Neflix
It has some really good video that would even have the most serious of skeptics scratching their heads. I bet within 15 minutes into the first episode you would have a hard time explaining what you just saw. Eitherway its a good watch in the middle of the night when you cant sleep. |
That's just it.
Even the most serious of skeptics admit that people have seen lights or objects in the sky of an unknown origin. Many would admit to the possibility of life on other planets. The disconnect occurs when those lights or objects are offered as proof of alien life when other possible explanations exist.
I mean, crop circles still pop up from time to time, but nobody still believes that they are made by aliens, right?
Right?
There is a WikiHow on it, for goodness sakes! |
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dubaholic1 Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 3016 Location: Quality over Quantity
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Count me in as someone who has seen some unexplained stuff if the sky.
Coming back from dinner one night we saw three reddish orangish lights in the sky which formed a triangle. They were big too, almost like the size of a golf ball in the sky. |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Lucky_Shot wrote: | If you guys get a chance watch
UFOs: The Best Evidence Ever (Caught on Tape) on Neflix
It has some really good video that would even have the most serious of skeptics scratching their heads. I bet within 15 minutes into the first episode you would have a hard time explaining what you just saw. Eitherway its a good watch in the middle of the night when you cant sleep. |
That's just it.
Even the most serious of skeptics admit that people have seen lights or objects in the sky of an unknown origin. Many would admit to the possibility of life on other planets. The disconnect occurs when those lights or objects are offered as proof of alien life when other possible explanations exist.
I mean, crop circles still pop up from time to time, but nobody still believes that they are made by aliens, right?
Right?
There is a WikiHow on it, for goodness sakes! |
Yeah i'm not saying all the stuff i've seen from videos is proof. Its pretty interesting though and when several people record it; it makes me more curious. Also crop circles aren't something i take serious |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Lucky_Shot wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Lucky_Shot wrote: | If you guys get a chance watch
UFOs: The Best Evidence Ever (Caught on Tape) on Neflix
It has some really good video that would even have the most serious of skeptics scratching their heads. I bet within 15 minutes into the first episode you would have a hard time explaining what you just saw. Eitherway its a good watch in the middle of the night when you cant sleep. |
That's just it.
Even the most serious of skeptics admit that people have seen lights or objects in the sky of an unknown origin. Many would admit to the possibility of life on other planets. The disconnect occurs when those lights or objects are offered as proof of alien life when other possible explanations exist.
I mean, crop circles still pop up from time to time, but nobody still believes that they are made by aliens, right?
Right?
There is a WikiHow on it, for goodness sakes! |
Yeah i'm not saying all the stuff i've seen from videos is proof. Its pretty interesting though and when several people record it; it makes me more curious. Also crop circles aren't something i take serious |
Yeah, but have you seen the video of Bigfoot making a crop circle using a UFO? . . . pretty convincing . . . _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Lucky_Shot wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Lucky_Shot wrote: | If you guys get a chance watch
UFOs: The Best Evidence Ever (Caught on Tape) on Neflix
It has some really good video that would even have the most serious of skeptics scratching their heads. I bet within 15 minutes into the first episode you would have a hard time explaining what you just saw. Eitherway its a good watch in the middle of the night when you cant sleep. |
That's just it.
Even the most serious of skeptics admit that people have seen lights or objects in the sky of an unknown origin. Many would admit to the possibility of life on other planets. The disconnect occurs when those lights or objects are offered as proof of alien life when other possible explanations exist.
I mean, crop circles still pop up from time to time, but nobody still believes that they are made by aliens, right?
Right?
There is a WikiHow on it, for goodness sakes! |
Yeah i'm not saying all the stuff i've seen from videos is proof. Its pretty interesting though and when several people record it; it makes me more curious. Also crop circles aren't something i take serious |
If there are bright lights in the sky, I would expect a lot of people to record it all at once from a variety of angles. That would help to identify what it is, which is what everyone wants. |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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UFO? |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | UFO? |
Looks very much like footage of a drone that was doctored at the end where it zooms off. I have a couple of drones and they move just like that. The perspective gives an optical illusion that it is bigger than it is and that the moves are more erratic. The light on the bottom is similar to what you see on a drone. And at the end it clearly looks CGI. I have done and supervised a good deal of VFX work in my job and the glow and streak look very digital and less than organic. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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