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KeepItRealOrElse
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | LaVar Ball predictably pulls sons LaMelo, LiAngelo from Lithuania over coaching dispute
| Quote: | | You will be shocked to learn LaVar Ball is pulling his sons LaMelo and LiAngelo off their Lithuanian professional team over a dispute with BC Vytautas Prienai coach Virginijus Seskus regarding LiAngelo’s playing time, according to Lithuanian basketball and Ball family beat reporter Donatas Urbonas. |
https://sports.yahoo.com/lavar-ball-predictably-pulls-sons-lamelo-liangelo-lithuania-coaching-dispute-182822581.html |
| Quote: | | "It's déjà vu all over again." Yogi Berra |
eventually his antics will likely reach the Lakers |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: |
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I'd say that in about half the games Zo played it looked like he was actively hurting the team with his lack of offense. This is despite how well he played in other facets of the game. The team looked much better when he was just a respectable scorer. I don't think there will be many games ahead where Zo is even only serviceable on offense and the team isn't competitive. When he's good, the Lakers look great.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Mirjalovic
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Joined: 16 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:27 am Post subject: |
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when will you guys learn ?
Julius Randle
Brandon Ingram
Lonzo Ball
all of them have one similliarity. They are raw as (bleep) and give perception they are a bad player from season 1. Little you guys knew these guys have high ceilling and will get better in each games. Julius Randle is learning in every minutes and mistakes he did. Brandon Ingram legitimately worst >20 mpg in NBA in his rookie year and look how better he plays right now.
You guys will hate Muhammad Bamba too since he's raw but this guy actually a generational center. (out topic) |
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Wildchild027
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Prime Jason Kidd would not be all-NBA today. |
hard to accept, but likely true |
I think if he win enough, he could be. Coaches vote on the reserves, plus the Lakers have this huge following, so I can see him voted in as a starter, once Curry is done. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Prime Jason Kidd would not be all-NBA today. |
hard to accept, but likely true |
I think if he win enough, he could be. Coaches vote on the reserves, plus the Lakers have this huge following, so I can see him voted in as a starter, once Curry is done. |
the reference was All NBA, not All Star. |
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Kidd was all NBA when the guards were: Kobe, AI, Tmac, Reggie, Vince, Ray, GP etc. Way to live in the moment guys. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Kidd was all NBA when the guards were: Kobe, AI, Tmac, Reggie, Vince, Ray, GP etc. Way to live in the moment guys. |
T-Mac - was mostly shuffled around between Guard and Forward to find a place for him on one of the three squads.
Vince Carter - made the All NBA team only as a Forward.
Reggie Miller - last time he made All NBA was 1998....Kidd made his first All NBA in 1999.
Your conflating a lot of information in regards to players prime years and position they played....all while disregarding the point the poster was making entirely in that the game has changed from that era, and the type of games that current All NBA players exhibit is different that those highlighted in Kidd's era. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Kidd was all NBA when the guards were: Kobe, AI, Tmac, Reggie, Vince, Ray, GP etc. Way to live in the moment guys. |
There’s many many others too. People despise Lavar so much they’ll go to great lengths to devalue his son and anybody linked to his son in a positive way. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Kidd was all NBA when the guards were: Kobe, AI, Tmac, Reggie, Vince, Ray, GP etc. Way to live in the moment guys. |
T-Mac - was mostly shuffled around between Guard and Forward to find a place for him on one of the three squads.
Vince Carter - made the All NBA team only as a Forward.
Reggie Miller - last time he made All NBA was 1998....Kidd made his first All NBA in 1999.
Your conflating a lot of information in regards to players prime years and position they played....all while disregarding the point the poster was making entirely in that the game has changed from that era, and the type of games that current All NBA players exhibit is different that those highlighted in Kidd's era. |
There’s an argument Kidd would be better in the current fast paced NBA. Probably a better one than he’d be worse. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Kidd was all NBA when the guards were: Kobe, AI, Tmac, Reggie, Vince, Ray, GP etc. Way to live in the moment guys. |
T-Mac - was mostly shuffled around between Guard and Forward to find a place for him on one of the three squads.
Vince Carter - made the All NBA team only as a Forward.
Reggie Miller - last time he made All NBA was 1998....Kidd made his first All NBA in 1999.
Your conflating a lot of information in regards to players prime years and position they played....all while disregarding the point the poster was making entirely in that the game has changed from that era, and the type of games that current All NBA players exhibit is different that those highlighted in Kidd's era. |
There’s an argument Kidd would be better in the current fast paced NBA. Probably a better one than he’d be worse. |
cool....again the point the poster was making was Kidd's production in the current NBA when compared to what All NBA guards are currently producing would likely leave him on the fringe of All NBA 3rd Team if All NBA at all. I think the original discussion involved Ball, but my agreement was referring to the Kidd element of the discussion. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Kidd was all NBA when the guards were: Kobe, AI, Tmac, Reggie, Vince, Ray, GP etc. Way to live in the moment guys. |
T-Mac - was mostly shuffled around between Guard and Forward to find a place for him on one of the three squads.
Vince Carter - made the All NBA team only as a Forward.
Reggie Miller - last time he made All NBA was 1998....Kidd made his first All NBA in 1999.
Your conflating a lot of information in regards to players prime years and position they played....all while disregarding the point the poster was making entirely in that the game has changed from that era, and the type of games that current All NBA players exhibit is different that those highlighted in Kidd's era. |
There’s an argument Kidd would be better in the current fast paced NBA. Probably a better one than he’d be worse. |
cool....again the point the poster was making was Kidd's production in the current NBA when compared to what All NBA guards are currently producing would likely leave him on the fringe of All NBA 3rd Team if All NBA at all. I think the original discussion involved Ball, but my agreement was referring to the Kidd element of the discussion. |
And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
Points aren't everything.
Also, please tell me whom on that list is a better defender than Kidd was. That side of the ball keeps getting ignored when people bring up comparatives as of late.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
Points aren't everything.
Also, please tell me whom on that list is a better defender than Kidd was. That side of the ball keeps getting ignored when people bring up comparatives as of late. |
you do not answer the question, provide an opinion on points for some reason....then ask me an unrelated question. Btw, in the season discussed, Kidd was 2nd Team All Defense with Eric Snow....and behind Doug Christie. |
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Wildchild027
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Wildchild027 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Prime Jason Kidd would not be all-NBA today. |
hard to accept, but likely true |
I think if he win enough, he could be. Coaches vote on the reserves, plus the Lakers have this huge following, so I can see him voted in as a starter, once Curry is done. |
the reference was All NBA, not All Star. |
My bad. I still think he can make All-NBA. Especially if the team is winning. Outside of us getting two max players, people are going to blame our success or failures on Lonzo. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
It’s now a guards league and a faster paced league. His stats would be inflated just like those guys stats are. I would say he was better than the bottom 3 guys without a doubt and I’d take him over Harden and probably Westbrook as well. He’d be the best defender of the bunch by a wide margin as well. People forget Kidd dragged a very mediocre nets team to the finals. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
It’s now a guards league and a faster paced league. His stats would be inflated just like those guys stats are. I would say he was better than the bottom 3 guys without a doubt and I’d take him over Harden and probably Westbrook as well. He’d be the best defender of the bunch by a wide margin as well. People forget Kidd dragged a very mediocre nets team to the finals. |
if that is your position...it's reasonable, but I did not view the statement through that prism, as in what Kidd would produce if he played today, more so the production he had then would not measure up to current All NBA guards. Defense helps a little, but it has never drove All NBA or MVP discussions in my opinion. |
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LakesGnrLake
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 1293
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
It’s now a guards league and a faster paced league. His stats would be inflated just like those guys stats are. I would say he was better than the bottom 3 guys without a doubt and I’d take him over Harden and probably Westbrook as well. He’d be the best defender of the bunch by a wide margin as well. People forget Kidd dragged a very mediocre nets team to the finals. |
if that is your position...it's reasonable, but I did not view the statement through that prism, as in what Kidd would produce if he played today, more so the production he had then would not measure up to current All NBA guards. Defense helps a little, but it has never drove All NBA or MVP discussions in my opinion. |
Kidd at minimum would be doing what Simmons is doing right now. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
It’s now a guards league and a faster paced league. His stats would be inflated just like those guys stats are. I would say he was better than the bottom 3 guys without a doubt and I’d take him over Harden and probably Westbrook as well. He’d be the best defender of the bunch by a wide margin as well. People forget Kidd dragged a very mediocre nets team to the finals. |
if that is your position...it's reasonable, but I did not view the statement through that prism, as in what Kidd would produce if he played today, more so the production he had then would not measure up to current All NBA guards. Defense helps a little, but it has never drove All NBA or MVP discussions in my opinion. |
Yes I think he would have better stats in this era and those guys would have worse simply because of how the game was played. It’s not all about stats. It’s simpler, who was the better player? I take Kidd over 4 or 5 of those guys. I think the stats and awards work themselves out from there. He was appreciated and rewarded when he played, I don’t think that would be different now. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | And I was responding to you saying the all NBA players have different games than in Kidd’s era. |
so you disagree?
2017...
Harden - 29/8/11
Westbrook - 32/11/10
Curry - 25/5/7
Thomas - 29/3/6
Derozan - 27/5/4
Wall - 23/4/11
Kidd's most productive season (2002-03)....18.7/6.3/8.9 with a 53% TS%....he never even scored 17 PPG in any other season. Who is he knocking off the list with his best season? |
You forgot Irving (25/3/6 on the reigning title team) and Lillard (27/5/6). There is no way that someone with Kidd's stats would be all-NBA, especially given that modern metrics would show that he was overrated as a defender.
This is not to say that Kidd would suck in the modern game. Far from it. However, in the current era of the NBA, PG is a scorer's position. We don't value defense at PG as much as we once did (with some degree of justification). |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | It’s now a guards league and a faster paced league. His stats would be inflated just like those guys stats are. I would say he was better than the bottom 3 guys without a doubt and I’d take him over Harden and probably Westbrook as well. He’d be the best defender of the bunch by a wide margin as well. People forget Kidd dragged a very mediocre nets team to the finals. |
The problem is that Kidd couldn't shoot in his prime. It's hard to buy into the idea that his stats would inflate if he couldn't make shots.
Anyway, I'm not talking about a hypothetical Jason Kidd. You can always imagine him being a great player even today. I'm talking about the real guy, who couldn't shoot and who (according to modern metrics) was not as good a defender as he was perceived to be. |
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32
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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I haven't been in this thread very much. I am disappointed in his rookie season. He got hurt in summer league and he missed 30 games this year due to injury. Now they are saying he won't play in summer league which is a disappointment because he needs the experience. He has the skills to be very good because we saw flashes of that this year. He just needs to stay healthy.
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | It’s now a guards league and a faster paced league. His stats would be inflated just like those guys stats are. I would say he was better than the bottom 3 guys without a doubt and I’d take him over Harden and probably Westbrook as well. He’d be the best defender of the bunch by a wide margin as well. People forget Kidd dragged a very mediocre nets team to the finals. |
The problem is that Kidd couldn't shoot in his prime. It's hard to buy into the idea that his stats would inflate if he couldn't make shots.
Anyway, I'm not talking about a hypothetical Jason Kidd. You can always imagine him being a great player even today. I'm talking about the real guy, who couldn't shoot and who (according to modern metrics) was not as good a defender as he was perceived to be. |
Wall can’t shoot, Simmons can’t shoot, Iggy and Draymond(who handle a ton of PG responsibility) can’t shoot, Rubio can’t shoot, Westbrook can’t shoot, Rondo can’t shoot.
And those guys have been doing just fine this postseason. Its not imagining to believe a 10 time all star, 9 time all nba defense, 5 time all nba first team player would remain an all nba player today. It takes imagination to think he wouldn’t.
But can we discuss what’s actually going on here? Why is everybody so infatuated with devaluing Ball that they have to devalue a hall of famer who plays similar to him?
Last edited by BigGameHames on Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | I haven't been in this thread very much. I am disappointed in his rookie season. He got hurt in summer league and he missed 30 games this year due to injury. Now they are saying he won't play in summer league which is a disappointment because he needs the experience. He has the skills to be very good because we saw flashes of that this year. He just needs to stay healthy. |
The health is worrisome but I don’t see how summer league helps him at all. He was arguably the best player in summer league history last year. He’s proven he’s too good for that level. I think it more likely reenforces bad habits than helps him. |
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