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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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scoobs wrote: | Lakers trying to show they are a class organization. They probably are laeaing towards rewarding Randle for all his hard work, doing what they told him to do. |
Eh I don't think so.. you don't throw 20Ms at a guy just to prove a point |
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DangeRuss Star Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Posts: 1418
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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scoobs wrote: | He would be a good "third best player" and place holder for Kuzma or Ball to blow up and be the third best player, if we are able to sign the two max players.
James 26ppg, 8rpg, 6apg
George 24ppg, 6rpg, 2spg, 40% threes
Randle 15ppg, 9rpg, 3apg
Kuzma 16ppg, 7rpg, 38% threes
Thats a solid big 4. We dont have a clear cut "third star" yet, but Kuzma or Ball could turn in to that guy. |
Why would randle be a placeholder for kuzma? Randle arguably has a higher ceiling and is the better player despite being only 8 months older. And where’s Ingram in your scenario? If you don’t have Ingram listed at least replace lebron with Kawhi. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26309
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | scoobs wrote: | Lakers trying to show they are a class organization. They probably are laeaing towards rewarding Randle for all his hard work, doing what they told him to do. |
Eh I don't think so.. you don't throw 20Ms at a guy just to prove a point |
Not like Randle didn't prove his point already. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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DangeRuss wrote: | scoobs wrote: | He would be a good "third best player" and place holder for Kuzma or Ball to blow up and be the third best player, if we are able to sign the two max players.
James 26ppg, 8rpg, 6apg
George 24ppg, 6rpg, 2spg, 40% threes
Randle 15ppg, 9rpg, 3apg
Kuzma 16ppg, 7rpg, 38% threes
Thats a solid big 4. We dont have a clear cut "third star" yet, but Kuzma or Ball could turn in to that guy. |
Why would randle be a placeholder for kuzma? Randle arguably has a higher ceiling and is the better player despite being only 8 months older. And where’s Ingram in your scenario? If you don’t have Ingram listed at least replace lebron with Kawhi. |
He even got the stats wrong lol. Ju, Kuz, and BI all wound up with the same ppg |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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One thing is for sure, wherever Julius ends up next year, he gonna put in work. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26309
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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When you have a kid as talented as Julius, whom improves every year, and goes into this off-season with the same intensity he did last off-season which made him a 20/10/4 player.
You don't let that go. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:40 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | When you have a kid as talented as Julius, whom improves every year, and goes into this off-season with the same intensity he did last off-season which made him a 20/10/4 player.
You don't let that go. |
I will take the bait....why are we calling Randle a 20/10 player? Last year he was a 16/8 guy....so I assumed you were referring to per 36, and that did not match 20/10. Maybe your referring to Post All Star break...it was close @ 20/9? |
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The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:06 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | MJST wrote: | When you have a kid as talented as Julius, whom improves every year, and goes into this off-season with the same intensity he did last off-season which made him a 20/10/4 player.
You don't let that go. |
I will take the bait....why are we calling Randle a 20/10 player? Last year he was a 16/8 guy....so I assumed you were referring to per 36, and that did not match 20/10. Maybe your referring to Post All Star break...it was close @ 20/9? |
Maybe it's the games in which he averaged 20/10/4. His averages in those games were 20/10/4.
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:30 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | MJST wrote: | When you have a kid as talented as Julius, whom improves every year, and goes into this off-season with the same intensity he did last off-season which made him a 20/10/4 player.
You don't let that go. |
I will take the bait....why are we calling Randle a 20/10 player? Last year he was a 16/8 guy....so I assumed you were referring to per 36, and that did not match 20/10. Maybe your referring to Post All Star break...it was close @ 20/9? |
Well, that's what he averaged, better actually, when playing 30 or more minutes per game which didn't happen until the later part of the season. Remember, he didn't play much earlier in the year.
But even if you just take the 16/8 guy you referred to, I think we would benefit from a little bit of context because he did that in 26.7 minutes per game. Specifically, Julius averaged 16.1 points, 8.0 rebounds, and 2.6 assists per game.
In NBA History, no one has had a season with more points, rebounds, and assists playing 26.7 minutes or less.
So sure, maybe calling him a 20/10 guy might not be entirely accurate, but given this fact, perhaps it is not that far off considering he is in uncharted territory as it is. |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:31 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | adkindo wrote: | MJST wrote: | When you have a kid as talented as Julius, whom improves every year, and goes into this off-season with the same intensity he did last off-season which made him a 20/10/4 player.
You don't let that go. |
I will take the bait....why are we calling Randle a 20/10 player? Last year he was a 16/8 guy....so I assumed you were referring to per 36, and that did not match 20/10. Maybe your referring to Post All Star break...it was close @ 20/9? |
Well, that's what he averaged, better actually, when playing 30 or more minutes per game which didn't happen until the later part of the season. Remember, he didn't play much earlier in the year.
But even if you just take the 16/8 guy you referred to, I think we would benefit from a little bit of context because he did that in 26.7 minutes per game. Specifically, Julius averaged 16.1 points, 8.0 rebounds, and 2.6 assists per game.
In NBA History, no one has had a season with more points, rebounds, and assists playing 26.7 minutes or less.
So sure, maybe calling him a 20/10 guy might not be entirely accurate, but given this fact, perhaps it is not that far off considering he is in uncharted territory as it is. |
That's all great but he's still not worth $20M. This isn't an individual sport like golf or tennis. We're trying to construct a team here. If Randle is your best or 2nd best player (or imo even 3rd best player), you're not going to be a championship team. He's a complementary piece, but not someone I'd point to and say "that's the guy I want to build around".
For the right price, in the 12-15M range, sure. If he signs a 20M offer sheet, then I'd match and instantly start looking for future trade partners. If this were 2016 offseason, where every team had cap space, than 20M wouldn't sound too crazy. But teams are now feeling the weight of their mistakes in 2016. Only superstars should come ahead of the franchise, not the Randle's of the world. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Pay the man his money Magic & Rob. You challenged him, he earned it, now let's roll |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | adkindo wrote: | MJST wrote: | When you have a kid as talented as Julius, whom improves every year, and goes into this off-season with the same intensity he did last off-season which made him a 20/10/4 player.
You don't let that go. |
I will take the bait....why are we calling Randle a 20/10 player? Last year he was a 16/8 guy....so I assumed you were referring to per 36, and that did not match 20/10. Maybe your referring to Post All Star break...it was close @ 20/9? |
Well, that's what he averaged, better actually, when playing 30 or more minutes per game which didn't happen until the later part of the season. Remember, he didn't play much earlier in the year.
But even if you just take the 16/8 guy you referred to, I think we would benefit from a little bit of context because he did that in 26.7 minutes per game. Specifically, Julius averaged 16.1 points, 8.0 rebounds, and 2.6 assists per game.
In NBA History, no one has had a season with more points, rebounds, and assists playing 26.7 minutes or less.
So sure, maybe calling him a 20/10 guy might not be entirely accurate, but given this fact, perhaps it is not that far off considering he is in uncharted territory as it is. |
If he makes 20/10 within 5 years, isn't that the point of projecting an expectation or upside, except he actually meets it?
His development curve statistically is leading him there easily. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26309
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Pretty much. But apparently 23/3/4 is worth 30M and 20/10/4 with the ability to defend all 5 positions isn't worth 20...
But then again I saw people on this forum a few days ago saying they'd rather have Kevon Looney than Randle -_-
I'm sure the Warriors make that trade in a heartbeat and laugh at us for the next decade. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:22 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Pretty much. But apparently 23/3/4 is worth 30M and 20/10/4 with the ability to defend all 5 positions isn't worth 20...
But then again I saw people on this forum a few days ago saying they'd rather have Kevon Looney than Randle -_-
I'm sure the Warriors make that trade in a heartbeat and laugh at us for the next decade. |
Did they say they wanted Looney at the same price as Julius?
I'd think that wasn't the context. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Hypothetically, if we get some stars on this team, do we envision Julius being a Clint Capela type of player? Or a Draymond type of player? Or something else?
I'd want Julius to be a Clint type of player (don't think he will end up being a Draymond type). Makes me wonder what the market will be set for Clint's salary. Same for Draymond's. (if they were free agents) |
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lakerican Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 3786
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: |
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You're leaving out the most important thing when evaluating Julius. He did have a 16/8 with only 11.1 FGA per game, being many of those coming from offensive rebounds and cheapies garbage points inside. Those shots attempts probably will stay the same regardless Max players come; not the same for Kuzma and/or BIngram. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: |
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lakerican wrote: | You're leaving out the most important thing when evaluating Julius. He did have a 16/8 with only 11.1 FGA per game, being many of those coming from offensive rebounds and cheapies garbage points inside. Those shots attempts probably will stay the same regardless Max players come; not the same for Kuzma and/or BIngram. |
His FGA the last 3 years: 10.3, 10.4, 11.0.
So I wouldn't be surprised if he still got double digit fga (this is ave, note that his FGA jumped to 14 in feb and mar)
His Usg% the last 3 years: 21.2, 21.4, 25.3.
I'd think it goes down if stars come.
His FTr the last 3 years: .323, .365, .470
That's really encouraging.
I'd be shocked if he aves ~20 next year if stars are here. I think his usg drops. And his FTr drops. |
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Fortysixn2 Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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If I had to bet money on it, I’d say that Dallas makes an $18/m a year offer and we let Randle walk.
The FO showed no confidence before the season started by not extending him, Kuzma is emerging and we are going to actively pursue a replacement at his position (LBJ) here over the next couple of months. Our FO, although they haven’t verbalized it, have made it a mission to try to bring in players that can offer some combo of 3 point shooting/Defense while ejecting players that were here previous to their rise to power.
None of that screams to me that they want to keep Randle. I think our FO has a vision of what they want this team to be and Kuzma is more in that mold than Randle and he is “their guy”.
I’d say the chance of us offering JR a new contract this offseason is very slim. If he gets a RFA offer we will probably let him walk, if he doesn’t then we will trade him as an expiring contract either before or during this season IMO. |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Pretty much. But apparently 23/3/4 is worth 30M and 20/10/4 with the ability to defend all 5 positions isn't worth 20...
But then again I saw people on this forum a few days ago saying they'd rather have Kevon Looney than Randle -_-
I'm sure the Warriors make that trade in a heartbeat and laugh at us for the next decade. |
He cannot defend centers. Watch some plays against, Embiid, AD, even Nurkic in PDX, etc., et.c, got roasted. Huge liability as a starting 5 in the paint. May not matter the way the NBA is going, but do not pretend he can check the big fellas. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Ziggy wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | adkindo wrote: | MJST wrote: | When you have a kid as talented as Julius, whom improves every year, and goes into this off-season with the same intensity he did last off-season which made him a 20/10/4 player.
You don't let that go. |
I will take the bait....why are we calling Randle a 20/10 player? Last year he was a 16/8 guy....so I assumed you were referring to per 36, and that did not match 20/10. Maybe your referring to Post All Star break...it was close @ 20/9? |
Well, that's what he averaged, better actually, when playing 30 or more minutes per game which didn't happen until the later part of the season. Remember, he didn't play much earlier in the year.
But even if you just take the 16/8 guy you referred to, I think we would benefit from a little bit of context because he did that in 26.7 minutes per game. Specifically, Julius averaged 16.1 points, 8.0 rebounds, and 2.6 assists per game.
In NBA History, no one has had a season with more points, rebounds, and assists playing 26.7 minutes or less.
So sure, maybe calling him a 20/10 guy might not be entirely accurate, but given this fact, perhaps it is not that far off considering he is in uncharted territory as it is. |
That's all great but he's still not worth $20M. This isn't an individual sport like golf or tennis. We're trying to construct a team here. If Randle is your best or 2nd best player (or imo even 3rd best player), you're not going to be a championship team. He's a complementary piece, but not someone I'd point to and say "that's the guy I want to build around".
For the right price, in the 12-15M range, sure. If he signs a 20M offer sheet, then I'd match and instantly start looking for future trade partners. If this were 2016 offseason, where every team had cap space, than 20M wouldn't sound too crazy. But teams are now feeling the weight of their mistakes in 2016. Only superstars should come ahead of the franchise, not the Randle's of the world. |
Yeah, I don't agree with that range at all. I think his value is in the high teens up to about $20M and even then, that's good value since he is a half decade from his prime. The big jump in cap space happened in 2016. So looking at signings from the last season, here is a breakdown of players who signed at the $12M-$15M range, and some who signed for more than that (excluding stars like Stephen Curry).
$12M-$15M per Year
Patty Mills - 4 years, $13M/yr
Joe Ingles - 4 years, $13M/yr
James Johnson - 4 years, $15M/yr
Taj Gibson - 2 years, $14M/yr
Amir Johnson - 1 year, $11M/yr
Kelly Olynyk - 4 years, $13M/yr
Zach Randolph - 2 years, $12M/yr
Tony Snell - 4 years, $12M/yr
More than $15M per Year
Blake Griffin - 5 years, $35M/yr
Kyle Lowry - 3 years, $33M/yr
Gordon Hayward - 3 years, $32M/yr
Paul Milsap - 3 years, $30M/yr
Otto Power - 4 years, $26M/yr
Jrue Holiday - 5 years, $25M/yr
JJ Redick - 1 year, $23M/yr
Serge Ibaka - 3 years, $22M/yr
Danilo Gallinari - 3 years, $22M/yr
Jeff Teague - 3 years, $19M/yr
George Hill - 3 years, $18M/yr
Dion Waiters - 4 years, $18M/yr
KCP - 1 year, $18M/yr
Tim Hardaway Jr. - 4 years, $18M/yr
Andre Iguodala - 3 years, $16M/yr |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46639
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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So I’m the only one who notices he went back to his rookie year hair-cut? |
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BynumForThree Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Posts: 1254
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Pretty much. But apparently 23/3/4 is worth 30M and 20/10/4 with the ability to defend all 5 positions isn't worth 20...
But then again I saw people on this forum a few days ago saying they'd rather have Kevon Looney than Randle -_-
I'm sure the Warriors make that trade in a heartbeat and laugh at us for the next decade. |
He cannot defend centers. Watch some plays against, Embiid, AD, even Nurkic in PDX, etc., et.c, got roasted. Huge liability as a starting 5 in the paint. May not matter the way the NBA is going, but do not pretend he can check the big fellas. |
Yeah but check out this Youtube clip of an isolated play during a meaningless late regular season game. _________________ If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
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shortodom Star Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 5332
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Zo, Kuzma and B.I should work with whoever Randle works with. They seen it first hand it's proven to work. Imagine if they all improved physically as much as Randle last summer. |
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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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he already started with his summer regime? Super impressed |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47580
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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It really all comes down to the money in my opinion with Julius.
If the Lakers can get him for a "reasonable" price, $16 million per...I am for it.
But above that? I would certainly weight alternate options. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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