Jordan Clarkson & Larry Nance Jr. Appreciation Thread
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I donít think Larry is a bad player. He is an average player with some big holes in his game, but who could potentially be a nice piece off the bench for someone. Truly, he needs to be in an uptempo system so that he can run because he has no offensive skills in the half court. Cleveland is a bad fit for him.

I think JC is actually a good player in terms of skill development. He is pretty highly skilled offensively, unfortunately he has some shortcoming that make him a player that doesnít contribute to wins. His defense and his decision making are just too poor. He is the kind of guy that will have a long career in this league, but will never contribute to a championship team. He has that Lou Williams/Swaggy gene. Loves the lifestyle, can score, doesnít work on his craft enough to be anything but a journeyman.


Nance is coaches dream player--- role player off the bench for 16 -20 mins a game. But that's it... a role player. He is what he is. Hard worker, provides energy, great on rotations, great hustle, occasional dunk of the year type poster dunks. Totally replaceable.

JC is a reallllly good 6th man type scorer. Now that he's in a system that doesn't really have good ball movement, he's been relegated to a spot up shooter and occasional iso scorer to bail out the clock. Still love him but truth is that 6 man scorers have never been championship pieces. If you want a 6th man, you want a guy who can come in and much things up with his versatility: Manu, Odom, Iggy.


And our management thought that Nance was the starter and Randle was the bench player. Good thing that Cleveland didnít insist on Randle.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
2019 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I donít think Larry is a bad player. He is an average player with some big holes in his game, but who could potentially be a nice piece off the bench for someone. Truly, he needs to be in an uptempo system so that he can run because he has no offensive skills in the half court. Cleveland is a bad fit for him.

I think JC is actually a good player in terms of skill development. He is pretty highly skilled offensively, unfortunately he has some shortcoming that make him a player that doesnít contribute to wins. His defense and his decision making are just too poor. He is the kind of guy that will have a long career in this league, but will never contribute to a championship team. He has that Lou Williams/Swaggy gene. Loves the lifestyle, can score, doesnít work on his craft enough to be anything but a journeyman.


Nance is coaches dream player--- role player off the bench for 16 -20 mins a game. But that's it... a role player. He is what he is. Hard worker, provides energy, great on rotations, great hustle, occasional dunk of the year type poster dunks. Totally replaceable.

JC is a reallllly good 6th man type scorer. Now that he's in a system that doesn't really have good ball movement, he's been relegated to a spot up shooter and occasional iso scorer to bail out the clock. Still love him but truth is that 6 man scorers have never been championship pieces. If you want a 6th man, you want a guy who can come in and much things up with his versatility: Manu, Odom, Iggy.


And our management thought that Nance was the starter and Randle was the bench player. Good thing that Cleveland didnít insist on Randle.


Yet they traded nance and not jules and inserted him in the starting lineup.

I guess you never give any grace to a new FO. They learned quickly.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
2019 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I donít think Larry is a bad player. He is an average player with some big holes in his game, but who could potentially be a nice piece off the bench for someone. Truly, he needs to be in an uptempo system so that he can run because he has no offensive skills in the half court. Cleveland is a bad fit for him.

I think JC is actually a good player in terms of skill development. He is pretty highly skilled offensively, unfortunately he has some shortcoming that make him a player that doesnít contribute to wins. His defense and his decision making are just too poor. He is the kind of guy that will have a long career in this league, but will never contribute to a championship team. He has that Lou Williams/Swaggy gene. Loves the lifestyle, can score, doesnít work on his craft enough to be anything but a journeyman.


Nance is coaches dream player--- role player off the bench for 16 -20 mins a game. But that's it... a role player. He is what he is. Hard worker, provides energy, great on rotations, great hustle, occasional dunk of the year type poster dunks. Totally replaceable.

JC is a reallllly good 6th man type scorer. Now that he's in a system that doesn't really have good ball movement, he's been relegated to a spot up shooter and occasional iso scorer to bail out the clock. Still love him but truth is that 6 man scorers have never been championship pieces. If you want a 6th man, you want a guy who can come in and much things up with his versatility: Manu, Odom, Iggy.


And our management thought that Nance was the starter and Randle was the bench player. Good thing that Cleveland didnít insist on Randle.


Yet they traded nance and not jules and inserted him in the starting lineup.

I guess you never give any grace to a new FO. They learned quickly.


They tried to trade Randle preseason over Nance to Boston for Bradley. By December, it was clear to them that Nance was the one they were moving. They figured that out real quick. And for the right price, Randle will be gone too. It's business never personal. The old regime had a hard time letting Robert Sacre go. They begged an average Dwight Howard to stay so they can overpay his stupid ass. There's clearly a difference between regimes.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
2019 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I donít think Larry is a bad player. He is an average player with some big holes in his game, but who could potentially be a nice piece off the bench for someone. Truly, he needs to be in an uptempo system so that he can run because he has no offensive skills in the half court. Cleveland is a bad fit for him.

I think JC is actually a good player in terms of skill development. He is pretty highly skilled offensively, unfortunately he has some shortcoming that make him a player that doesnít contribute to wins. His defense and his decision making are just too poor. He is the kind of guy that will have a long career in this league, but will never contribute to a championship team. He has that Lou Williams/Swaggy gene. Loves the lifestyle, can score, doesnít work on his craft enough to be anything but a journeyman.


Nance is coaches dream player--- role player off the bench for 16 -20 mins a game. But that's it... a role player. He is what he is. Hard worker, provides energy, great on rotations, great hustle, occasional dunk of the year type poster dunks. Totally replaceable.

JC is a reallllly good 6th man type scorer. Now that he's in a system that doesn't really have good ball movement, he's been relegated to a spot up shooter and occasional iso scorer to bail out the clock. Still love him but truth is that 6 man scorers have never been championship pieces. If you want a 6th man, you want a guy who can come in and much things up with his versatility: Manu, Odom, Iggy.


And our management thought that Nance was the starter and Randle was the bench player. Good thing that Cleveland didnít insist on Randle.


Yet they traded nance and not jules and inserted him in the starting lineup.

I guess you never give any grace to a new FO. They learned quickly.


They tried to trade Randle preseason over Nance to Boston for Bradley. By December, it was clear to them that Nance was the one they were moving. They figured that out real quick. And for the right price, Randle will be gone too. It's business never personal. The old regime had a hard time letting Robert Sacre go. They begged an average Dwight Howard to stay so they can overpay his stupid ass. There's clearly a difference between regimes.


If you ask me, I don't think they were high on any of Nance, Randle or Clarkson. As time goes by and it plays out they might be right.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject:

Maybe FO was showcasing Larry to trade, Iíll give them that benefit of the doubt
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Our FO has done a lot of things right. How they have treated and approached Randle is not one of them. Its fine to both give our FO credit and criticism. All in all, they've done much more good than bad. Fortunately, other teams saved them from what would have been their greatest (and maybe only) error - trading Randle.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Our FO has done a lot of things right. How they have treated and approached Randle is not one of them. Its fine to both give our FO credit and criticism. All in all, they've done much more good than bad. Fortunately, other teams saved them from what would have been their greatest (and maybe only) error - trading Randle.


You mean, other teams around the league valued him at below what the lakers did...which wasnít that high.

On paper Nance was the better fit for that starting unit, he brought the D. Unfortunately Lonzo/Brook/KCP stunk the joint up offensively early in the season and they had to bring Julius in because he CAN score. Itís not like Randle won the starting spot. Once Randle got the spot, he did show he had improved.

I donít think the lakers FO is all in on any guy that was here before they took over except for BI. Our previous regime did a terrible job of drafting talent and signing FAís that actually win games vs. put up empty numbers.

I donít know how this turned into a JR thread...oh yeah I do, JR stalker lol.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject:

so glad we traded these scrubs
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject:

The playstyle of the Cleveland Cavaliers brings out the worst in JC and the worst in Nance.

Their style encourages Clarkson to play out of control and try to get his own, and doesn't utilize the kind of player Nance is which is a play finisher that's set up by other people.

In the proper system and staff, both of them could shine, which is why the Lakers were the perfect place for the both of them as role players off the bench.

Cleveland has no clue how to utilize and reign them in, and the myth of LeBron magically making everyone better is looking like a myth at this point.


You can always tell the leadership on that team when you watch how they react with each other. Everyone on that team bar Kevin Love seems to be out there trying to get their own, don't seem to like one another, roll their eyes when stuff doesn't go their way, and don't really seem to see LeBron as anything but their meal ticket.

They aren't a team, they're a group of players put together that figured they could win a championship because they had LeBron James, but LeBron James isn't enough of a leader at this point to get them on the same page, and the best player they had couldn't stand LeBron.

They brought up today on First Take for the first time, that LeBron treats team problems "non chalant"ly when it's stuff on that level, and why they lost Kyrie.

When you see the Cavs team acting this way towards one another and how LeBron isn't the first one putting the kibosh on that stuff, it starts to actually look that way.

Even when I look at it earlier in the season when Kevin Love was the target of the media scrutiny, LeBron didn't exactly get on the front line for him either like the leader of the team is supposed to. He was as nonchalant about it as he was with Kyrie when the media was scapegoating him.

LeBron will let the blame fall on others and only be interested in changing the narrative if it's something that's directly effecting him.


Now you see the entire Cavs team reacting the way they do, playing fully in it for themselves, and LeBron unable to bring them together nor seeming to want to make the effort to do so, you can tell that LeBron is really only invested in teammates that are his friends, and not the team as a whole. The difference in chemistry between The Heat and the Cavs are night and day because of that.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. You literally just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.
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Last edited by KindCrippler2000 on Wed May 16, 2018 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. Just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


Another reason why a lot of Lakers fans don't want LeBron bringing that style here, particularly after we spent the last 2 seasons with Luke trying to develop the opposite mentality.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. Just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


Another reason why a lot of Lakers fans don't want LeBron bringing that style here, particularly after we spent the last 2 seasons with Luke trying to develop the opposite mentality.


Will certainly be interesting to see if Luke and the FO allow Lebron to dictate the playstyle and strategy should he decide to join the Lakers. I agree - I don't think Lebron-ball works here, as it would take away from the strength of some of our players. They'd need a solid system in place (like the one GSW has) to have some level success in the playoffs. The dynamic changes significantly in the western conference. This isn't a JV conference and the level of competition we'll be going up against means it's either team ball principles or the Warriors/Rockets smoke you in 4-5 games.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
MJST wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. Just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


Another reason why a lot of Lakers fans don't want LeBron bringing that style here, particularly after we spent the last 2 seasons with Luke trying to develop the opposite mentality.


Will certainly be interesting to see if Luke and the FO allow Lebron to dictate the playstyle and strategy should he decide to join the Lakers. I agree - I don't think Lebron-ball works here, as it would take away from the strength of some of our players. They'd need a solid system in place (like the one GSW has) to have some level success in the playoffs. The dynamic changes significantly in the western conference. This isn't a JV conference and the level of competition we'll be going up against means it's either team ball principles or the Warriors/Rockets smoke you in 4-5 games.


Its a mixed bag. Does Lebron worry about dominating the ball so much when he knows Ball can get him about 10 points a game just by running in transition? I believe the reports of him wanting to be a traditional off ball SF. Now hes Lebron i dont expect him to not handle the ball but I can see his usage dropping next to Ball, especially if he wants less wear on his body come playoff time.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Maybe FO was showcasing Larry to trade, Iíll give them that benefit of the doubt


Lakers new or old regime, sometimes stumble to where they are, not really through planning. They tried to sign Melo, Alridge, etc. and were rejected for their own good. So they had some cap space in 16 and were in good position, not because of planning. Then they went and gave that all away, that's another story. Here you got Larry Nance, favored by Luke and management, even inserted in the starting line-up over Jules. Was this all part of a plan to artificially raise his value? Nah, they actually preferred him over Jules for a time. So this actually, unbeknownst to them, raises Nance's stock and allowed them to do that trade with the Cavs.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. Just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


Another reason why a lot of Lakers fans don't want LeBron bringing that style here, particularly after we spent the last 2 seasons with Luke trying to develop the opposite mentality.


if we get 'ol bronzie I'm worried about that and his age/health. I wouldn't skip a beat if we don't get him
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. Just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


Another reason why a lot of Lakers fans don't want LeBron bringing that style here, particularly after we spent the last 2 seasons with Luke trying to develop the opposite mentality.


Facts.

And I may be the only one willing to say this, but, Lebron is selfish. Thatís the reason he ďnever has helpĒ on these loaded teams. He wants the offense running through him at all times so he can keep his assists up. Guys are never allowed to develop chemistry amongst each other (ex: Bosh/Wade) or to really find a rhythm (ex: Love). Irving was the only one willing to tell him to F off and do his own thing and that resulted in the 2016 finals comeback and ultimately him tired of taking all the blame and receiving no credit.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Came across this on the cavs reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/8juyjk/thoughts_on_clarkson_and_nance/?st=jh9o31va&sh=a3992b4a
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
MJST wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. Just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


Another reason why a lot of Lakers fans don't want LeBron bringing that style here, particularly after we spent the last 2 seasons with Luke trying to develop the opposite mentality.


Will certainly be interesting to see if Luke and the FO allow Lebron to dictate the playstyle and strategy should he decide to join the Lakers. I agree - I don't think Lebron-ball works here, as it would take away from the strength of some of our players. They'd need a solid system in place (like the one GSW has) to have some level success in the playoffs. The dynamic changes significantly in the western conference. This isn't a JV conference and the level of competition we'll be going up against means it's either team ball principles or the Warriors/Rockets smoke you in 4-5 games.


tbh I don't think LeBron's style could function in a system like Golden States. Just wouldn't be able to adapt his style to that, he's never had to adapt his style his entire career, he'd make teams do it for him. But in a Golden State system I don't think LeBron would be able to adapt to playing that way tbh, too unlike his natural style.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
Jordan has been painful to watch in the playoffs. Whenever the game is still important, he is nervously trying to break defenders down with the dribble, fails, then passes out or bricks a jumper. He has been picked on defensively too. It is crazy that he is still getting minutes. That trade was a robbery.


well, yeash.... especially since the Cavs were dead in the water prior to that trade, and were imploding... the Cavs of course made a run after that trade... so yeah, that was a terrible trade, for the Lakers that is...

so you know, your argument is just dumb.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
Nance and Clarkson have been disappointing in the playoffs. Clarkson shooting 32% and averaging 5 points and 1 assist, and Nance averaging 4/4.


it's their first playoffs... goodness.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Jordan has been painful to watch in the playoffs. Whenever the game is still important, he is nervously trying to break defenders down with the dribble, fails, then passes out or bricks a jumper. He has been picked on defensively too. It is crazy that he is still getting minutes. That trade was a robbery.


well, yeash.... especially since the Cavs were dead in the water prior to that trade, and were imploding... the Cavs of course made a run after that trade... so yeah, that was a terrible trade, for the Lakers that is...

so you know, your argument is just dumb.


What? Lol. It was a steal to get rid of Clarkson and his contract and get a 1st round pick
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:28 am    Post subject:

This was a reply of mine in another thread, but since people are voicing concern about LeBronís style of play and how it would mesh with Lukeís system, hey, why not?


ĒAnd if Broussardís report is true that he wants to play off the ball more in the Ēnext stageĒ of his career, I think that's a terrific indication that heís beginning to realize how much help heíll need to continue playing at a high level if he wants to win. KD isn't dealing with decline at this stage of his career, but joining Golden Stateís system has made life easier for him. I'm sure LeBron has noticed this. He was complimentary of Luke and the system heís implemented here and compared it GS. I think he's attracted to the idea of playing in an actual system that emphasizes ball and player movement. Boston does that especially well also. I think he wants to be part of a team that plays that way.Ē

This isn't about how LeBron would fit into the Warriorsí system. It's about structuring a modern offense around LeBron in a way that maximizes what he does best. That's always how you design an offense. It should be heavily dictated by your personnel. The great thing about LeBron is that he's dangerous in so many different ways with the ball on virtually every area on the floor, making your options almost limitless on what spots to put him in. Because of who he is, he naturally commands the attention of the opposition, both when he has the ball and when he doesn't. And you can take advantage of that by using him in creative ways that misdirects defenses and confuses them to get looks for others. You can even run simple action in early offense (like Pistol) or even something like Motion Weak with your own wrinkle to set him up in the low post. There's a lot of stuff you can run.

The key is to always have movement off the ball instead of just standing around and watching him, which is what the Cavs do. You can call it ĒLeBron ballĒ if you want, but that's ultimately on the coach to design the schemes that the team runs. The Cavs don't have schemes. ISO doesn't count. Even when LeBron is on the bench, what do they always end up doing? ISO. Watching them gives me PTSD of the Byron Anton Scott era. LeBron would look so much different in Lukeís offense and would conserve a lot more energy because he wouldn't have to work so hard for everything. He doesn't have to change his game. He just needs to play in a system that allows him to do what he does best (which is pretty much everything) in an efficient way that conserves his energy. The Lakers can offer him that, especially with Georgeís spot-up shooting and creating ability, and the playmaking of Ball and Ingram.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 4:44 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. You literally just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


These are my thoughts exactly and I really worry that if the Lakers were to ONLY get LeBron next year, it would retard the development of all their great young talent as LeBron and his one man show take front and center stage and all the other guys are shoved into the background...
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:02 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
Nance and Clarkson have been disappointing in the playoffs. Clarkson shooting 32% and averaging 5 points and 1 assist, and Nance averaging 4/4.


it's their first playoffs... goodness.


There are many players who made their first appearance in playoffs this year. Rubio for example, and he did just fine. These guys were brought in with the expectation that at their age, they could contribute now. Obviously that's not the case.
_________________
We can wait. Do not trade Lonzo/BI/Kuz/Hart. Chase max FA in 2019 instead.
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
so glad we traded these scrubs


I liked them when they were here. Lebron-ball means players aren't going to get the best opportunity to showcase all of their strengths. You literally just sit your ass in a corner and wait for him pass to you.


They were doing fine before the playoffs. Their numbers were pretty comparable to what they were here.

Nance is a good hustle player with smarts but he is limited. He is undersized as a big man and he doesn't have the shooting or handling skills to make up for it.

Clarkson showed signs of being a poor mans Rose or Westbrook but he fell in love with the idea of being a poor man's Nick Young. Maybe this experience will give him some much needed humility so he can get back on track.
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