2018 Lottery watch- hoping Lakers send 10th pick to Philly- Buck Foston!
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
From what I've seen from the prospects, I don't see any consensus number one pick and don't really see too much elite talent, this draft reminds me more of the 2013 draft.


Ayton, Bagley and Bamba all look like great bigmen to me.

Bamba has a 7'9" wingspan and he is not slow.

Ayton can score and block and shoot, IMO he can be better than Embiid.

Heck, Porter looked like a better Blake Griffin and who knows how good Doncic will be, kid seems to be legit.

I think that all of those players will be better than the number one pick last season Fultz.


Bamba has crazy potential but he has a LONG way to go before he’s a good NBA player. I think people are falling in love with his length and mobility a little too much similar to Isaac last year. Risky pick.

Ayton is a stud. I think he has the most immediate impact and one of the highest ceilings.

Bagley is somewhat a project IMO too but his starting point is light years ahead of Bamba. I think he could fill out and become a center in the NBA but he will likely have to play the 4 at the beginning of his career.

My top 3 in order is Ayton, Bagley, and Doncic(haven’t seen him play but those measurements/stats at his age against better competition than college Bball is hard to deny. I probably don’t take Bamba in the top 5.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

Wow. Cleveland was in the mix for the #1 pick. That would have been crazy if they landed it.

Quote:
• The first three numbers drawn were, in order, 9, 12 and 6. High numbers put more teams in play. In general, the teams with the best lottery odds -- Phoenix and Memphis -- have most of the four-number combinations with 1s and 2s. In that moment before the drawing of the fourth ball, a bunch of teams held combinations featuring 6, 9, and 12 -- including Orlando, Cleveland (via Brooklyn), and Sacramento. I don't say this facetiously: The tension in those 10 seconds was very, very real. Out popped a "1," and the Suns had their first No. 1 pick in history -- a massive moment for a rebuilding franchise that hasn't yet derived much from three recent top-eight picks (Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Alex Len).

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BigBallerBrand
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject:

if cleveland got #1 pick, i honestly think they would have just traded for paul george and kept LBJ.

trade #1 pick and crappy contracts for PG13 (either opts in or signs new contract [sign and trade])
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

BigBallerBrand wrote:
if cleveland got #1 pick, i honestly think they would have just traded for paul george and kept LBJ.

trade #1 pick and crappy contracts for PG13 (either opts in or signs new contract [sign and trade])


It would have to be a S&T though right? Can OKC even do that?
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Hope we get Grayson Allen at #47, he’ll be our taller Dellabedova (we only have 1 enforcer currently, Randle)
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Hope we get Grayson Allen at #47, he’ll be our taller Dellabedova (we only have 1 enforcer currently, Randle)


Those guys play nothing alike. The only similarities are they are both white guards. I’m not against Allen but he’s way more Jordan Clarkson than Dellevadova
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
governator wrote:
Hope we get Grayson Allen at #47, he’ll be our taller Dellabedova (we only have 1 enforcer currently, Randle)


Those guys play nothing alike. The only similarities are they are both white guards. I’m not against Allen but he’s way more Jordan Clarkson than Dellevadova

Not cause they white, cause they both ‘irritants’
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject:

BigBallerBrand wrote:
if cleveland got #1 pick, i honestly think they would have just traded for paul george and kept LBJ.

trade #1 pick and crappy contracts for PG13 (either opts in or signs new contract [sign and trade])


Why would pg and lbj join up in a better location than Clev.?
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
governator wrote:
Hope we get Grayson Allen at #47, he’ll be our taller Dellabedova (we only have 1 enforcer currently, Randle)


Those guys play nothing alike. The only similarities are they are both white guards. I’m not against Allen but he’s way more Jordan Clarkson than Dellevadova

Not cause they white, cause they both ‘irritants’


Ok I hear you. But they even irritate guys completely differently. One with hard pesky D and the other with trash talk and cheap shots. But my bad, they are both irritants and I shouldn’t have accused you of judging by race.
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
governator wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
governator wrote:
Hope we get Grayson Allen at #47, he’ll be our taller Dellabedova (we only have 1 enforcer currently, Randle)


Those guys play nothing alike. The only similarities are they are both white guards. I’m not against Allen but he’s way more Jordan Clarkson than Dellevadova

Not cause they white, cause they both ‘irritants’


Ok I hear you. But they even irritate guys completely differently. One with hard pesky D and the other with trash talk and cheap shots. But my bad, they are both irritants and I shouldn’t have accused you of judging by race.

All good. All our guys are so sportsmanlike (which is good) but having one of those on the bench like a Rick Fox or Artest would be nice (although Grayson is more on the dirty side, u right about that)
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
governator wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
governator wrote:
Hope we get Grayson Allen at #47, he’ll be our taller Dellabedova (we only have 1 enforcer currently, Randle)


Those guys play nothing alike. The only similarities are they are both white guards. I’m not against Allen but he’s way more Jordan Clarkson than Dellevadova

Not cause they white, cause they both ‘irritants’


Ok I hear you. But they even irritate guys completely differently. One with hard pesky D and the other with trash talk and cheap shots. But my bad, they are both irritants and I shouldn’t have accused you of judging by race.

All good. All our guys are so sportsmanlike (which is good) but having one of those on the bench like a Rick Fox or Artest would be nice (although Grayson is more on the dirty side, u right about that)


Agreed. Especially if we lose Julius. I love the young core but could use somebody who’s a little dirty.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject:

EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read LS's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
LS posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.
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Last edited by P.K. on Wed May 16, 2018 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.


James Harden was soft and slow and is about to be an MVP. He may be soft and slow. Idk, I’ve never see him play beyond highlights but he’s the best guy on the best team in the 2nd best league in the world. Looking over him cause he’s a “soft, slow Euro” is a lazy assessment.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.

Mike has Doncic as his #1. LS has Doncic at #6.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.

Mike has Doncic as his #1. LS has Doncic at #6.

so many mods I confuse them sometimes

the point still stands. How many slow, unathletic SF's have been really successful in the league in the last 10-15 years? What makes you think Doncic is going to be any different?
the guy shoots .318 last year from 3pt range in Euroleague - where the line is 17 inches closer than in the NBA. Not to mention the NBA defenders being way faster than Euro's
that slow, soft, non-athletic euro who doesn't have a reliable 3ptr is probably going to get eaten alive by all those fast, quick twitch SF's in the NBA.
and heaven forbid some team tries to play him at the 2, where he'd probably get torched for 30+ per night by guys as bad as Clarkson
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Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.

Mike has Doncic as his #1. LS has Doncic at #6.

so many mods I confuse them sometimes

the point still stands. How many slow, unathletic SF's have been really successful in the league in the last 10-15 years? What makes you think Doncic is going to be any different?
the guy shoots .318 last year from 3pt range in Euroleague - where the line is 17 inches closer than in the NBA. Not to mention the NBA defenders being way faster than Euro's
that slow, soft, non-athletic euro who doesn't have a reliable 3ptr is probably going to get eaten alive by all those fast, quick twitch SF's in the NBA.
and heaven forbid some team tries to play him at the 2, where he'd probably get torched for 30+ per night by guys as bad as Clarkson

I think his slowness is being overstated and he is anything but soft.

I believe in his overall shooting profile by age as a positive sign that he has a high shooting ceiling in his NBA prime. I also think he's an elite passer and PnR ball-handler with a rare BBIQ, which makes him different than most lottery pick SFs who have entered the NBA over the past 10-15 years who outside of Durant have been far, far less skilled than Doncic by age.

May I bring another slow, "soft," hyper-skilled Euro into the conversation? Nikola Jokic...
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.

Mike has Doncic as his #1. LS has Doncic at #6.

so many mods I confuse them sometimes

the point still stands. How many slow, unathletic SF's have been really successful in the league in the last 10-15 years? What makes you think Doncic is going to be any different?
the guy shoots .318 last year from 3pt range in Euroleague - where the line is 17 inches closer than in the NBA. Not to mention the NBA defenders being way faster than Euro's
that slow, soft, non-athletic euro who doesn't have a reliable 3ptr is probably going to get eaten alive by all those fast, quick twitch SF's in the NBA.
and heaven forbid some team tries to play him at the 2, where he'd probably get torched for 30+ per night by guys as bad as Clarkson

I think his slowness is being overstated and he is anything but soft.

I believe in his overall shooting profile by age as a positive sign that he has a high shooting ceiling in his NBA prime. I also think he's an elite passer and PnR ball-handler with a rare BBIQ, which makes him different than most lottery pick SFs who have entered the NBA over the past 10-15 years who outside of Durant have been far, far less skilled than Doncic by age.

May I bring another slow, "soft," hyper-skilled Euro into the conversation? Nikola Jokic...


Joe ingles isn’t a Euro but fits the profile and just had a great playoffs. Slow but also not soft. And Doncic projects to be much better than Ingles.
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P.K.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.

Mike has Doncic as his #1. LS has Doncic at #6.

so many mods I confuse them sometimes

the point still stands. How many slow, unathletic SF's have been really successful in the league in the last 10-15 years? What makes you think Doncic is going to be any different?
the guy shoots .318 last year from 3pt range in Euroleague - where the line is 17 inches closer than in the NBA. Not to mention the NBA defenders being way faster than Euro's
that slow, soft, non-athletic euro who doesn't have a reliable 3ptr is probably going to get eaten alive by all those fast, quick twitch SF's in the NBA.
and heaven forbid some team tries to play him at the 2, where he'd probably get torched for 30+ per night by guys as bad as Clarkson

I think his slowness is being overstated and he is anything but soft.

I believe in his overall shooting profile by age as a positive sign that he has a high shooting ceiling in his NBA prime. I also think he's an elite passer and PnR ball-handler with a rare BBIQ, which makes him different than most lottery pick SFs who have entered the NBA over the past 10-15 years who outside of Durant have been far, far less skilled than Doncic by age.

May I bring another slow, "soft," hyper-skilled Euro into the conversation? Nikola Jokic...

Euro Centers and PF's have done much much better in the NBA than their perimeter counterparts have. Big men skills translate everywhere and Euroleague C's tend to come to the NBA with much sounder fundamentals then US draftees (who tend to be "good" just because they are big). Most foreign perimeter players have huge problems with the disparity in speed and athleticism at those positions between the NBA and Euroleague.
we could name Dirk, Porky, and 10-15 other Euro bigs who have had (having) good to great careers in the NBA.
you can only name 3 or 4 perimeter Euro's that have done the same - and a LOT have tried
we seem to get about 50/50 or 60/40 success rates on Euro bigs
and about 1/10 or 1/15 on perimeter guys - and most of the guys that have made it have been marginal
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Jellojigglin
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

Annihilator wrote:
0514 wrote:
And so ends the Steve Nash trade. Thank god

Now if we could just end the Deng signing.
Amen!
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.

Mike has Doncic as his #1. LS has Doncic at #6.

so many mods I confuse them sometimes

the point still stands. How many slow, unathletic SF's have been really successful in the league in the last 10-15 years? What makes you think Doncic is going to be any different?
the guy shoots .318 last year from 3pt range in Euroleague - where the line is 17 inches closer than in the NBA. Not to mention the NBA defenders being way faster than Euro's
that slow, soft, non-athletic euro who doesn't have a reliable 3ptr is probably going to get eaten alive by all those fast, quick twitch SF's in the NBA.
and heaven forbid some team tries to play him at the 2, where he'd probably get torched for 30+ per night by guys as bad as Clarkson

I think his slowness is being overstated and he is anything but soft.

I believe in his overall shooting profile by age as a positive sign that he has a high shooting ceiling in his NBA prime. I also think he's an elite passer and PnR ball-handler with a rare BBIQ, which makes him different than most lottery pick SFs who have entered the NBA over the past 10-15 years who outside of Durant have been far, far less skilled than Doncic by age.

May I bring another slow, "soft," hyper-skilled Euro into the conversation? Nikola Jokic...

Euro Centers and PF's have done much much better in the NBA than their perimeter counterparts have. Big men skills translate everywhere and Euroleague C's tend to come to the NBA with much sounder fundamentals then US draftees (who tend to be "good" just because they are big). Most foreign perimeter players have huge problems with the disparity in speed and athleticism at those positions between the NBA and Euroleague.
we could name Dirk, Porky, and 10-15 other Euro bigs who have had (having) good to great careers in the NBA.
you can only name 3 or 4 perimeter Euro's that have done the same - and a LOT have tried
we seem to get about 50/50 or 60/40 success rates on Euro bigs
and about 1/10 or 1/15 on perimeter guys - and most of the guys that have made it have been marginal

Good time for an outlier then
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:


Joe ingles isn’t a Euro but fits the profile and just had a great playoffs. Slow but also not soft. And Doncic projects to be much better than Ingles.

Good point, and it's not like we haven't seen hyper-skilled suboptimal athletes succeed in the NBA - just look at a former MVP winner like Steve Nash (a foreigner, if not a Euro).

Optimally I want an elite athlete with an elite skill or two in the draft, but guys like Lebron James, Kevin Durant, and Anthony Davis don't come around that often.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:


Joe ingles isn’t a Euro but fits the profile and just had a great playoffs. Slow but also not soft. And Doncic projects to be much better than Ingles.

Good point, and it's not like we haven't seen hyper-skilled suboptimal athletes succeed in the NBA - just look at a former MVP winner like Steve Nash (a foreigner, if not a Euro).

Optimally I want an elite athlete with an elite skill or two in the draft, but guys like Lebron James, Kevin Durant, and Anthony Davis don't come around that often.

Of course it’s not ideal, but there’s been plenty of guys who overcame physical deficiencies.
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EZ-Ryder
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
P.K. wrote:
epak wrote:
Does the UofA guy shot 3s?

.343 on about 1 attempt per game. He's got a really good mid-range (and long mid-range) game

Sean Miller (UofA Coach) is really really bad developing & utilizing big men well - and I say that having gone to UofA. Miller is a former guard & is kind of a guard/perimeter coach, who's sucked with about 4 or 5 bigs in a row now.

Miller under-utilized Ayton pretty much the same way he mis-used Markennan the year before.

I expect Ayton to excel in the NBA too - he's pretty much got all the tools and may be the most athletic big that's come along in the last 10 years or more


Nice. Thanks.

The Suns will probably screw this up though - given their history.
rather then selecting the once in a generation big man, they'll select another soft euro who's game doesn't translate to the NBA anywhere near as well.


Hope you're not talking about Doncic because his game and body are both already NBA ready. He has handles, is a great passer, plays passing lanes well, can create his own shot, and hit the 3. On top of that he just turned 18. He'd be a top 3 prospect in any NBA draft.

go read MikeLG's analysis (in the other thread) of the top guys in the draft. He has Doncic 6th along with reasons why
Mike posted that a couple of hours after I posted the above - but the reasons are still the same. Soft, not very athletic, no lateral quickness, no hops.
in other words, yet another soft slow Euro
and, every single one of them "has handles" - but without enough speed to get by people.

Mike has Doncic as his #1. LS has Doncic at #6.

so many mods I confuse them sometimes

the point still stands. How many slow, unathletic SF's have been really successful in the league in the last 10-15 years? What makes you think Doncic is going to be any different?
the guy shoots .318 last year from 3pt range in Euroleague - where the line is 17 inches closer than in the NBA. Not to mention the NBA defenders being way faster than Euro's
that slow, soft, non-athletic euro who doesn't have a reliable 3ptr is probably going to get eaten alive by all those fast, quick twitch SF's in the NBA.
and heaven forbid some team tries to play him at the 2, where he'd probably get torched for 30+ per night by guys as bad as Clarkson


That's assuming he plays SF which, based on most mock drafts and scouting reports, isn't likely. I agree that if a team does try and stick him at SF then he could be screwed because there is no way he can cover most SF's in the league. I think he could succeed at either guard position. He's stronger than most point guards and is a much better playmaker than most SG's. He also plays different than most Euro's who rely on finesse to be effective. Doncic doesn't shy away from contact and is very aggressive. Comparing him to past Euro's is unfair considering how dissimilar his game is to theirs.
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P.K.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject:

EZ-Ryder wrote:

That's assuming he (Doncic) plays SF which, based on most mock drafts and scouting reports, isn't likely. I agree that if a team does try and stick him at SF then he could be screwed because there is no way he can cover most SF's in the league. I think he could succeed at either guard position. He's stronger than most point guards and is a much better playmaker than most SG's. He also plays different than most Euro's who rely on finesse to be effective. Doncic doesn't shy away from contact and is very aggressive. Comparing him to past Euro's is unfair considering how dissimilar his game is to theirs.

edited for brevity
Depending on which draft site you look at he's about 6'7", 225lbs (ranges from 6'6" 220 to 6'8" 232)
and he's SLOOOOWWWWWW
he couldn't even begin to guard the PG's and SG's in the NBA
with a slow first step, slow lateral quickness, and slow speed, he's not going to get by any of the top 20 PG's or SG's in the league on offense either
and since he can't shoot the 3 very well, he's not going to demand respect away from the bucket - which means people are gonna sag way off him.
which is going to magnify his slow 1st step and slow drive.
so, yeah...good luck with starting him at point guard or shooting guard
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Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
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