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Chronicle
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 Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Houston is the bruteforce team
Just keep trying the force as many shots as you can method game after game year after year. Keep adding better shooters and eventually it might work... as we see now
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TheBlackMamba
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| No, it's not wide open. Houston is just a really freakin' good team with two HOFers leading it (one having an all-time great season), a supporting cast of role players that fit well together, and a clearly defined identity + gameplan on both ends. People underrated them even through a 65-win season, but they've proven to legitimately be on Golden State's level, which is to say historically elite. |
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Zubolo
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Randle vs Tucker
Kuzma vs Ariza
Lebron vs Gordon
PG vs Harden
Ingram vs Paul
With Ball and Hart off the bench
or
Lebron vs Draymond
PG vs KD
Kuzma vs Iggy
Ingram vs Klay
Ball vs Curry
Randle and Hart off the bench!
I like our chances in either scenario. I hope this is a glaring warning to the FO that Randle must be kept!!! He's worth 2 future 1st round picks and maybe even a 2nd round pick in addition.
I can also see players like Wesley Matthews, Kenneth Faried, Pat Beverly, being let go by their teams and joining us for the minimum |
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tox
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | No, it's not wide open. Houston is just a really freakin' good team with two HOFers leading it (one having an all-time great season), a supporting cast of role players that fit well together, and a clearly defined identity + gameplan on both ends. People underrated them even through a 65-win season, but they've proven to legitimately be on Golden State's level, which is to say historically elite. |
Except neither Harden nor CP3 is having an all-time great conference finals, yet there they are. |
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TheBlackMamba
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | No, it's not wide open. Houston is just a really freakin' good team with two HOFers leading it (one having an all-time great season), a supporting cast of role players that fit well together, and a clearly defined identity + gameplan on both ends. People underrated them even through a 65-win season, but they've proven to legitimately be on Golden State's level, which is to say historically elite. |
Except neither Harden nor CP3 is having an all-time great conference finals, yet there they are. |
Well it hasn't been the prettiest series overall for them, but they've both done their fair share of carrying the team at crucial moments in the 3 wins. I get that ultimately the key to beating the Dubs is slowing down and controlling the place to an extreme + limiting your turnovers and their transition opportunities (something that other teams may be able to replicate), but you then still need elite offensive players that can create opportunities and "get buckets" against the Warriors' D in half-court situations (not as easily replicated). |
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tox
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | tox wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | No, it's not wide open. Houston is just a really freakin' good team with two HOFers leading it (one having an all-time great season), a supporting cast of role players that fit well together, and a clearly defined identity + gameplan on both ends. People underrated them even through a 65-win season, but they've proven to legitimately be on Golden State's level, which is to say historically elite. |
Except neither Harden nor CP3 is having an all-time great conference finals, yet there they are. |
Well it hasn't been the prettiest series overall for them, but they've both done their fair share of carrying the team at crucial moments in the 3 wins. I get that ultimately the key to beating the Dubs is slowing down and controlling the place to an extreme + limiting your turnovers and their transition opportunities (something that other teams may be able to replicate), but you then still need elite offensive players that can create opportunities and "get buckets" against the Warriors' D in half-court situations (not as easily replicated). |
Sure, I just don't see the Rockets doing anything in particular making them look special. Like they are obviously good, but not inimitably so. I really think the Warriors just look like they'd get swept by the '16-'17 Warriors, if that makes sense. They're just not as good right now -- maybe it's Houston taking them out of their plan, though. I'm not sure how to disentangle the two. |
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slavavov
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:14 am Post subject: |
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The last two games of the WCF could've gone either way. GSW could easily be west champions right now. I could still see Houston blowing this 3-2 lead, especially since CP3 and harden have never been in this position.
GSW may have regressed a bit, but what's really happened is that they are being challenged. If Kawhi Leonard and Tony Parker were healthy last year the Spurs would've challenged the Warriors and maybe even beaten them.
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trablos
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| We're still gonna need some shooters. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Honestly... we'd be right in the mix ..if Bron/ PG come |
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HAWAIIGUY27
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | We're still gonna need some shooters. |
I brought this up in another thread. We're going to need shooters if we bring LeBron in.
Some candidates off the top of my head for those 4 vet. min. slots:
Channing Frye
Travis Wear (2-way?)
Marco Belinelli
Joe Harris
Gerald Green
Joe Johnson
Luke Babbitt
Mo Speights
Jose Calderon |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Nah, GS still ahead of the pack. I don’t know how Houston has done it the last 2 games but they’ve turn this into iso vs iso, suppress ball movement. Only 1 ball at a time, 2 allstars or 4 allstars don’t matter. Plus Eric Gordon has been punching above his weight the last 2 games, kinda make Klay a wash
Imagine Kobe in this type of iso games against softer defense, minimal doubling like this... oh my |
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AirKobe8
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:25 am Post subject: |
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GSW does look mortal, and that could really benefit us this summer. Suddenly, the West looks winnable.
Anyway, don't you think all 4 teams still playing look really fatigued? I think it's playing more into series' results than people are giving credit.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| AirKobe8 wrote: | GSW does look mortal, and that could really benefit us this summer. Suddenly, the West looks winnable.
Anyway, don't you think all 4 teams still playing look really fatigued? I think it's playing more into series' results than people are giving credit. |
Golden State is banged up -- Iggy is out, Thompson has a knee issue and it wasn't sure he'd even play in game 5, Curry isn't going to be healthy for the rest of the playoffs. |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | Houston offensively is not even playing that great either.
Didn’t think the Warriors would regress this soon. |
Multiple long play off runs will take its toll on any team, including the warriors. My guess Houston in 7, warriors will win the next one back in SF. |
Seems like we're seeing this more, is this why Foston is the last team to win 4 in a row....WAY back in the 50's-60's?
If so, which is a better way to preserve the best product for the NBA:
A. Actually spacing out the season by a few more weeks again for the best product in June (not just the teams resting players issue)
B. Let these super teams burn themselves out with extended play so there is more of a turnover of winners, and at least the perception that competition is even greater.
It just seems like LBJ being wore down either gives him an out as an excuse or takes the best player out of the biggest stage. It's not so much just "father time" or his amazing physique but if the league can help this not happen I'm guessing this would be the wakeup call to start the season earlier in October. It also doesn't look good to see teams kicking the ball around in clutch time.
I'm not saying it's all the league, but they should be above reproach as a business. At the end of the day though, the team itself controls their rest by winning. The Laker squad that lost only ONE playoff game looked fresh wire to wire and it felt like it was other factors that led to them being the next 4 or 5 peat (Horry in and out, Malone injury, Shaq contract decision most importantly) and I'm not sure if that team really burnt itself out. You could say the same for Jordan's retirement as well. I'd like to hear some opinions on if this could or even should be "fixed".
Last edited by fansincemagic on Fri May 25, 2018 6:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AirKobe8
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | AirKobe8 wrote: | GSW does look mortal, and that could really benefit us this summer. Suddenly, the West looks winnable.
Anyway, don't you think all 4 teams still playing look really fatigued? I think it's playing more into series' results than people are giving credit. |
Golden State is banged up -- Iggy is out, Thompson has a knee issue and it wasn't sure he'd even play in game 5, Curry isn't going to be healthy for the rest of the playoffs. |
All true, but the FAs won't really take that into consideration.
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| No. I think you have to give credit to Houston for defending the Warriors. These are not your usual soft Rockets. They are physical on defense and are uglying the game up on that end. Credit to them. |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | | No. I think you have to give credit to Houston for defending the Warriors. These are not your usual soft Rockets. They are physical on defense and are uglying the game up on that end. Credit to them. |
A good chunk of that is being hungry. It isn't a cliche, they're feeding off of the crowd yes but they believe they can stop GS on any given possession and aren't just looking to make a run when two of the four are on the bench. |
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RG73
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| fansincemagic wrote: |
Seems like we're seeing this more, is this why Foston is the last team to win 4 in a row....WAY back in the 50's-60's?
If so, which is a better way to preserve the best product for the NBA:
A. Actually spacing out the season by a few more weeks again for the best product in June (not just the teams resting players issue)
B. Let these super teams burn themselves out with extended play so there is more of a turnover of winners, and at least the perception that competition is even greater.
It just seems like LBJ being wore down either gives him an out as an excuse or takes the best player out of the biggest stage. It's not so much just "father time" or his amazing physique but if the league can help this not happen I'm guessing this would be the wakeup call to start the season earlier in October. It also doesn't look good to see teams kicking the ball around in clutch time.
I'm not saying it's all the league, but they should be above reproach as a business. At the end of the day though, the team itself controls their rest by winning. The Laker squad that lost only ONE playoff game looked fresh wire to wire and it felt like it was other factors that led to them being the next 4 or 5 peat (Horry in and out, Malone injury, Shaq contract decision most importantly) and I'm not sure if that team really burnt itself out. You could say the same for Jordan's retirement as well. I'd like to hear some opinions on if this could or even should be "fixed". |
The fix is making the season shorter. It is usually pretty obvious by the half way mark of the season who the contenders are. I think Lebron himself has suggested reducing the game load down into the 60s. Of course, the league will never go for the reduced revenue (and the players wouldn't go for salaries reduced by the percentage of lost games). 82 games is simply too long. So yes, they could potentially space the season out more, but then you lose summer recovery and training time. They could alternately reduce the games in the first few rounds of the playoffs, but that is another money loser (and one of the reasons the first round got extended to 7 games to begin with).
So we're stuck with the system as is. Which means making it to the Finals is a marathon, and you risk seeing these ugly battles. What you're seeing by the time you get to the conference finals are decidedly the best teams, but the best teams playing through extreme fatigue, banged up with injuries--it's a mental battle. And at the end of the day, isn't that the intangible thing we all turn in to watch--who's mentally tougher, who can will themselves to victory when they're at their most exhausted? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | No, it's not wide open. Houston is just a really freakin' good team with two HOFers leading it (one having an all-time great season), a supporting cast of role players that fit well together, and a clearly defined identity + gameplan on both ends. People underrated them even through a 65-win season, but they've proven to legitimately be on Golden State's level, which is to say historically elite. |
Realistically, they are a level below but health and fatigue and hunger are all working in their favor.
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: |
Seems like we're seeing this more, is this why Foston is the last team to win 4 in a row....WAY back in the 50's-60's?
If so, which is a better way to preserve the best product for the NBA:
A. Actually spacing out the season by a few more weeks again for the best product in June (not just the teams resting players issue)
B. Let these super teams burn themselves out with extended play so there is more of a turnover of winners, and at least the perception that competition is even greater.
It just seems like LBJ being wore down either gives him an out as an excuse or takes the best player out of the biggest stage. It's not so much just "father time" or his amazing physique but if the league can help this not happen I'm guessing this would be the wakeup call to start the season earlier in October. It also doesn't look good to see teams kicking the ball around in clutch time.
I'm not saying it's all the league, but they should be above reproach as a business. At the end of the day though, the team itself controls their rest by winning. The Laker squad that lost only ONE playoff game looked fresh wire to wire and it felt like it was other factors that led to them being the next 4 or 5 peat (Horry in and out, Malone injury, Shaq contract decision most importantly) and I'm not sure if that team really burnt itself out. You could say the same for Jordan's retirement as well. I'd like to hear some opinions on if this could or even should be "fixed". |
The fix is making the season shorter. It is usually pretty obvious by the half way mark of the season who the contenders are. I think Lebron himself has suggested reducing the game load down into the 60s. Of course, the league will never go for the reduced revenue (and the players wouldn't go for salaries reduced by the percentage of lost games). 82 games is simply too long. So yes, they could potentially space the season out more, but then you lose summer recovery and training time. They could alternately reduce the games in the first few rounds of the playoffs, but that is another money loser (and one of the reasons the first round got extended to 7 games to begin with).
So we're stuck with the system as is. Which means making it to the Finals is a marathon, and you risk seeing these ugly battles. What you're seeing by the time you get to the conference finals are decidedly the best teams, but the best teams playing through extreme fatigue, banged up with injuries--it's a mental battle. And at the end of the day, isn't that the intangible thing we all turn in to watch--who's mentally tougher, who can will themselves to victory when they're at their most exhausted? |
Couldn't we just increase the roster size and allow coaches to rest players, especially in weeks where there are multiple back to backs in the regular season. There probably should be some kind of limit on the number of starters resting to prevent tanking (as well as the frequency for such rests), but I think teams should be able to rest one or two starters at a time.
In baseball pitchers do not play every game, and MLB isn't really affected by the practice. I think basketball should do the same. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| fansincemagic wrote: |
I'm not saying it's all the league, but they should be above reproach as a business. At the end of the day though, the team itself controls their rest by winning. The Laker squad that lost only ONE playoff game looked fresh wire to wire and it felt like it was other factors that led to them being the next 4 or 5 peat (Horry in and out, Malone injury, Shaq contract decision most importantly) and I'm not sure if that team really burnt itself out. You could say the same for Jordan's retirement as well. I'd like to hear some opinions on if this could or even should be "fixed". |
There's lots of reasons that potential dynasties get stopped short --
1. injuries
2. player conflicts in terms of how the money/attention, etc. gets divided up
3. losing a little of their edge because of success
4. player mobility makes it more difficult to hold onto guys because they can leave for greener pastures easily
5. simply the fact that there are always other good teams, so no matter how much talent you collect you can't rubber-stamp your way to a ring
We were dominant in the middle-year in our threepeat, but we had a 7-game series in the playoffs the years before and after, so it's not like we were cutting through the league like a knife through butter. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: |
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No, there are 2 teams who are exceptional, all the rest don’t come close.
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Vanquish
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Location: London
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: |
I'm not saying it's all the league, but they should be above reproach as a business. At the end of the day though, the team itself controls their rest by winning. The Laker squad that lost only ONE playoff game looked fresh wire to wire and it felt like it was other factors that led to them being the next 4 or 5 peat (Horry in and out, Malone injury, Shaq contract decision most importantly) and I'm not sure if that team really burnt itself out. You could say the same for Jordan's retirement as well. I'd like to hear some opinions on if this could or even should be "fixed". |
There's lots of reasons that potential dynasties get stopped short --
1. injuries
2. player conflicts in terms of how the money/attention, etc. gets divided up
3. losing a little of their edge because of success
4. player mobility makes it more difficult to hold onto guys because they can leave for greener pastures easily
5. simply the fact that there are always other good teams, so no matter how much talent you collect you can't rubber-stamp your way to a ring
We were dominant in the middle-year in our threepeat, but we had a 7-game series in the playoffs the years before and after, so it's not like we were cutting through the league like a knife through butter. |
Agreed, we were VERY LUCKY during the sac series in championship no 3. I honestly believe that if Horry didn't sink that last second 3, we would never have recovered in the series and Sac would have won.
PS: God the east was horrible during the 3 peat. I cant remember any of our nba finals opponents but the WCF are still fresh in my mind. Goes to show which series was the real championship. Pretty much like Hou- GS is basically the NBA championship series right now. |
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RG73
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Vanquish"] | RG73 wrote: |
Couldn't we just increase the roster size and allow coaches to rest players, especially in weeks where there are multiple back to backs in the regular season. There probably should be some kind of limit on the number of starters resting to prevent tanking (as well as the frequency for such rests), but I think teams should be able to rest one or two starters at a time.
In baseball pitchers do not play every game, and MLB isn't really affected by the practice. I think basketball should do the same. |
Increased roster size would mean either more payroll expenses or reduced player salaries. Neither side goes for that. It also means fans would have a higher chance of seeing the JV roster instead of the stars. Fans and the networks wouldn't go for that. There's just too much money involved for too many people to change the status quo. It isn't like the league is hurting. Until people are losing money there won't be any meaningful change. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Wow is the West wide open? |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | Houston showing how to beat the Warriors?
2 Max FA and Lakers can matchup with Rockets.
Even more reason for LBJ to come.
If LBJ and PG13 come and JR is kept by trading 2 #1 to dump Deng, this is a nice matchup:
PG13 vs. James Harden
Ball vs. Chris Paul
JR vs. Clint Capela.
BI vs. Trevor Ariza.
LBJ vs. P.J. Tucker
subs:
Hart, Kuzma, $4M FA vs. Gordon, Green, Nene |
houston hasnt shown a thing.
how to beat the warriors? ask the cavs how they did it?
notice anything similar?
I do..
it's called injuries.
thats the only way any of these currently setup teams can beat the warriors. they have to pray for an injury or two.
Cavs only won that series where they were about to lose quickly due to Draymond getting suspended, then Iggy playing too many minutes ended up having back spasms the next game and was hobbled the entire game(there goes yet another lock down defender and passer), in addition bogut got hurt. paint defender and extra passer(he used to run the offense from the post.. ball movement was hampered when these two guys were down/hobbled.)
you see the same pattern now. iggy is down, ball movement is suspect, turnover city(bone head turnovers, not forced TO's). a lack of defense on certain guys all because iggy is injured. and klay is now playing half hurt even though he can score still. he can't defend the same.
Thats the recipe. wait for an injury or two then pounce. nothing more...nothing less.
the west is not wise open when it comes to the top spot. not until some other team creates a team full of equal or better talent with an equal or better approach offensively/defensively. that has not happened yet. all you can do is hope they get hurt or age out. |
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