Miss America Pageant Will No Longer Judge Contestants Based on Outward Appearance
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ElginBaylor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

It's funny cuz I play in a band fronted by a woman who went to the pageant as Miss Indiana in the 80s and she's really upset by this. Of course she's very anchored in the past and believes the world is going to hell in a hand basket with our lack of morals and lack of respect for traditions. Personally I think the whole beauty pageant thing is an idea that has outlived it usefulness and should be scrapped altogether. Just not relevant to today's society.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

ElginBaylor wrote:
It's funny cuz I play in a band fronted by a woman who went to the pageant as Miss Indiana in the 80s and she's really upset by this. Of course she's very anchored in the past and believes the world is going to hell in a hand basket with our lack of morals and lack of respect for traditions. Personally I think the whole beauty pageant thing is an idea that has outlived it usefulness and should be scrapped altogether. Just not relevant to today's society.


It will be scrapped when nobody watches it. It shouldn't be scrapped as a part of a social engineering experiment. You know the free market of ideas. What usefulness did it or any other TV show have other than serve as a vehicle for selling advertising spots.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
It will be scrapped when nobody watches it. It shouldn't be scrapped as a part of a social engineering experiment. You know the free market of ideas. What usefulness did it or any other TV show have other than serve as a vehicle for selling advertising spots.


True. If someone morphed the pageant into a reality TV show called American Bimbo, would it even seem out of place? The Bachelor and the like isn't much different from that. Who needs a swimsuit competition when you could have competitive pole dancing and a tattoo competition? American Bimbo could be ratings gold.

I'm being facetious, but only slightly. The Miss America pageant is like reality TV from the early days of television. The difference is that the Miss America pageant is fighting a losing battle to retain its dignity.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Seems odd to me a woman who won the pageant on looks wants to change the format. I wonder what her motivation to do so is?


Maybe she thought she won it on her cunning wit?

Or perhaps its just virtue signaling.

Seems like to some degree we have lost the ability to contextualize and compartmentalize. Isn’t it possible to judge a woman on her looks in one setting, and then not judge that woman on her looks in another?

For instance, in a beauty competition you judge on looks. In a job interview, you judge the same woman on her qualifications.

Maybe that isn’t feasible, and that’s why this is necessary, but if it isn’t feasible, then how will they not judge on looks so long as you can see what they look like?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Seems odd to me a woman who won the pageant on looks wants to change the format. I wonder what her motivation to do so is?


Maybe she thought she won it on her cunning wit?

Or perhaps its just virtue signaling.

Seems like to some degree we have lost the ability to contextualize and compartmentalize. Isn’t it possible to judge a woman on her looks in one setting, and then not judge that woman on her looks in another?

For instance, in a beauty competition you judge on looks. In a job interview, you judge the same woman on her qualifications.

Maybe that isn’t feasible, and that’s why this is necessary, but if it isn’t feasible, then how will they not judge on looks so long as you can see what they look like?


Or, we could stop pretending judging a woman on her looks is actually some virtuous talent show and empowerment event? Or quit marketing it to little girls? I don’t have a problem with a woman or a man allowing themselves to be objectified, just call it what it is.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:39 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I'm not a pageant patron. I haven't watched a beauty pageant in years. I understand the changing society that wants to teach women their worth. Teaching is a misnomer because they already know their worth. I don't think changing the format of the Miss America Pageant will do much to accomplish that.

Miss America is a institution to a degree. Changing the format may help some women but it may also hurt others. You eliminate one group, install another. Which group should we hold higher?

Old adage, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"
you fix it because it is broke and always has been broken. a lot of us just didnt know any better. now we do.

truthfully they need to get rid of it. now if they want to start up some other contest go ahead and call it something else.

But to your point here's an issue.

What if my best feature is actually my looks. I think God has given us many gifts. but some of those gifts are better than others.

if my beauty is my best attribute why should I not flaunt it? Why should I not be praised for it?

Why is there a difference between being praised for my beauty vs my brain. They are both God given or for the non believers. DNA level gifts that we had little to do with. Smart people are born that way, you dont Become Highly intelligent. You're born that way, then you are taught certain things where you can show how intelligent you are by the speed in which you comprehend things, see patterns, etc. Just like you were born smart, some people are born beautiful.

When I see a very attractive person doing a low level job. I will always tell them, you know... dont be afraid to use what the good lord gave you. meaning use your looks as well as your brains. dont stop using one because its considered a bad thing in society. it's not.

now i'm not talking about people cutting on themselves to shape their bodies or starving themselves to shape their bodies. I'm talking about people who just have it naturally.

lastly, there isnt a darn thing wrong with a person telling another person that they are very attractive. Nothing at all. If I see a pretty natural scene in a photo on Bing. I will say "Wow, So pretty". There is no difference when I see a beautiful woman. "wow, so pretty."
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The contest announced today (June 5) that the next edition in September will drop the swimsuit portion of the competition and be inclusive of women of all sizes.

And if there was any confusion—because ditching swimsuits and including women with a whole range of bodies doesn’t preclude the show still being about beauty—Gretchen Carlson, chair of the Miss America board of directors, said on Good Morning America that “we will no longer judge our candidates on their outward physical appearance.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1297330/the-miss-america-swimsuit-competition-is-out/amp/


Sounds like they are saying the next Miss America could even be a woman that is clearly overweight. But would they really do that? The winner could get mocked and humiliated because people are so harsh.

If they would never pick a heavier woman, then this stuff about beauty not mattering would just be talk.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject:

^Looks like the show was pulling 33 million viewers back in '88, they're now down to around 5 million in 2017, so it was probably time to change it up. The new format might actually reverse the declining trend next year. If it is anything like The Voice, Carlson could have something here that might spark some changes in other pageants/competitions going forward.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Seems odd to me a woman who won the pageant on looks wants to change the format. I wonder what her motivation to do so is?


Gretchen Carlson (the lady that brought Roger Ailes down) is running it now. She was Miss America in 1989.....but I know she is thought to be very religious and conservative in her personal life (not really referring to conservative in political terms). I would not be surprised if she had a strong voice in the decision.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
adkindo wrote:
so the Miss America Pageant can now be a radio only event?

Miss USA > Miss America

"Miss America is the girl next door.....Miss USA is the girl you wished lived next door."


I honestly didn't know they were different titles from different pageants until I read this.


not sure of all the differences.....think one of the big ones is Miss America is judged on talent (35% of score) and I do not think Miss USA requires a talent. The prizes and scholarships are a little different. Miss America is between the ages of 17-24....while Miss USA can be up to 28 years old.....and Miss USA competes in Miss Universe.

You can tell the difference in contestants because California's rep for Miss America holds to title of Miss California....while the rep for the Miss USA holds the title of Miss California USA

I think the stereotype has always been Miss America is a little more "apple pie" while Miss USA leans a little more towards "cherry pie".
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Seems odd to me a woman who won the pageant on looks wants to change the format. I wonder what her motivation to do so is?


Gretchen Carlson (the lady that brought Roger Ailes down) is running it now. She was Miss America in 1989.....but I know she is thought to be very religious and conservative in her personal life (not really referring to conservative in political terms). I would not be surprised if she had a strong voice in the decision.


I knew she brought Ailes down. That's the reason I posed the question. In my mind I wondered if that had anything to do with the decision to change the format. I didn't know she was religious.

She's chairwoman of the Miss America board of directors so I would say she probably had a strong voice in the decision.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Quote:
The contest announced today (June 5) that the next edition in September will drop the swimsuit portion of the competition and be inclusive of women of all sizes.

And if there was any confusion—because ditching swimsuits and including women with a whole range of bodies doesn’t preclude the show still being about beauty—Gretchen Carlson, chair of the Miss America board of directors, said on Good Morning America that “we will no longer judge our candidates on their outward physical appearance.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1297330/the-miss-america-swimsuit-competition-is-out/amp/


Sounds like they are saying the next Miss America could even be a woman that is clearly overweight. But would they really do that? The winner could get mocked and humiliated because people are so harsh.

If they would never pick a heavier woman, then this stuff about beauty not mattering would just be talk.
well thats not necessarily true.
a heavier woman doesn't have to be over weight in reality. just looks bigger than these rail thin beauty queens/models we see. a regular sized woman can be extremely attractive.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject:

Great move!

I really hope this gives way for Thicker contestants and the Lakergirls follow that lead.

*fingers crossed*
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

My fave pageant contestant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Quote:
The contest announced today (June 5) that the next edition in September will drop the swimsuit portion of the competition and be inclusive of women of all sizes.

And if there was any confusion—because ditching swimsuits and including women with a whole range of bodies doesn’t preclude the show still being about beauty—Gretchen Carlson, chair of the Miss America board of directors, said on Good Morning America that “we will no longer judge our candidates on their outward physical appearance.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1297330/the-miss-america-swimsuit-competition-is-out/amp/


Sounds like they are saying the next Miss America could even be a woman that is clearly overweight. But would they really do that? The winner could get mocked and humiliated because people are so harsh.

If they would never pick a heavier woman, then this stuff about beauty not mattering would just be talk.
well thats not necessarily true.
a heavier woman doesn't have to be over weight in reality. just looks bigger than these rail thin beauty queens/models we see. a regular sized woman can be extremely attractive.


I think I agree with you, but it seems like they are suggesting that weight won’t matter anymore.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Quote:
The contest announced today (June 5) that the next edition in September will drop the swimsuit portion of the competition and be inclusive of women of all sizes.

And if there was any confusion—because ditching swimsuits and including women with a whole range of bodies doesn’t preclude the show still being about beauty—Gretchen Carlson, chair of the Miss America board of directors, said on Good Morning America that “we will no longer judge our candidates on their outward physical appearance.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1297330/the-miss-america-swimsuit-competition-is-out/amp/


Sounds like they are saying the next Miss America could even be a woman that is clearly overweight. But would they really do that? The winner could get mocked and humiliated because people are so harsh.

If they would never pick a heavier woman, then this stuff about beauty not mattering would just be talk.


To be fair, these pageant contestants have been mocked regardless for things like dumb answers to questions, etc.

And I wouldn't say its true that if they never picked a heavier woman that it would be just talk since it is possible that the best contestants happen to also be attractive.

I guess I just don't see anything wrong with a beauty pageant. They aren't selecting the winners for important jobs and the participation is entirely voluntary. Then again, maybe that's the point of the change, that, they no longer want to be a beauty pageant. But if that's what you are, then, it's pretty dumb to say you don't care about beauty -- in a beauty pageant. Would be just as dumb to have a "smartest kid in America" contest where you don't care about IQ or other intelligence measures.

By the way, the pageant has an age restriction from 17 to 25 iirc. Does that mean they're going to open it up to all ages? If not, is the implication that age matters in determining a person's value?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject:

ElginBaylor wrote:
It's funny cuz I play in a band fronted by a woman who went to the pageant as Miss Indiana in the 80s and she's really upset by this. Of course she's very anchored in the past and believes the world is going to hell in a hand basket with our lack of morals and lack of respect for traditions. Personally I think the whole beauty pageant thing is an idea that has outlived it usefulness and should be scrapped altogether. Just not relevant to today's society.


I'm curious do you remember her name

I don't think you're referring to Shelli Yoder she was in the 90s and a Democrat.

That being said these pageants were always outdated and should've went away ages ago.

They stopped being relevant when Vanessa Williams had that nude scandal.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject:

When will outward appearance stop mattering in bodybuilding competitions? Hmph.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject:

Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
What's the Miss America Pageant?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::

You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mr in between.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::
but CL. if you leave us in here talking about it to ourselves, how us men ever get that lady insight? come on back in and break it down to us. We can only think like men, no matter how nice some of us may be on this topic we are still going to have blind spots due to our built in gender bias. But now you see how black people feel when they see a bunch of white people talking about racism affecting blacks and they noticed no one is really getting to the main points. which is why you need a brotha or sista or both to come in and break it down to help the conversation along. That's if of course you actually care like you say you do(not you CL, You being those having the discussion.)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject:

((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
When will outward appearance stop mattering in bodybuilding competitions? Hmph.


Probably when you stop pretending to be genuine?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
When will outward appearance stop mattering in bodybuilding competitions? Hmph.


Probably when you stop pretending to be genuine?


This should go in that volt thing.
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