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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

No, they could sign KCP to an $8M deal on 7/1 without renouncing him and that new contract figure would become his new hit on the Lakers cap while they pursue max free agents.


Really? Hmm. That's news to me.
Thanks. Not that I would questions BVH, but can someone confirm?

Quote:
Free agents continue to be included in team salary until one of the following happens:

The player signs a new contract with the same team. When this happens, the team salary reflects the player's new salary rather than his cap hold.

The player signs with a different team. As soon as this happens, the player becomes his new team's problem, and his salary no longer counts against his old team.

The team renounces the player.

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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

No, they could sign KCP to an $8M deal on 7/1 without renouncing him and that new contract figure would become his new hit on the Lakers cap while they pursue max free agents.


Really? Hmm. That's news to me.
Thanks. Not that I would questions BVH, but can someone confirm?

Quote:
Free agents continue to be included in team salary until one of the following happens:

The player signs a new contract with the same team. When this happens, the team salary reflects the player's new salary rather than his cap hold.

The player signs with a different team. As soon as this happens, the player becomes his new team's problem, and his salary no longer counts against his old team.

The team renounces the player.


But continuing onto #34.

Quote:
34. What does renouncing a player mean?

As detailed in question number 31, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exceptions (see question number 19) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. After renouncing a player, the team is still permitted to re-sign that player, but must either have enough cap room to fit the salary, or sign the player using the Minimum Salary exception. The exception to this is an Early Bird free agent who is coming off the second season of his rookie scale contract. Such players, when renounced, are treated as Non-Bird free agents.

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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

Nope. James and George.

Renounce Pope.
Trade Deng with picks.
Resign Pope for 8 mill.


Oh, so no Randle is your premise then.
I'll take Randle over Pope.

I’d get a commitment (no ink) from Pope after he realizes that he’s only getting MLE money, probably late July.

I’d get commitments from George and James early, before Pope commits, but actually sign them after the Randle situation is resolved, which could go well into August, IMO.

After Randle realizes that he doesn’t have a market, he’ll be forced to resign with the Lakers for their price (around ten million per) or take the qualifying offer.

When Randle makes that difficult decision, you officially ink Pope, James, and George and ride off into the sunset.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I thought KCP played well this past season. Just think that for him to be signed as a Laker several marquee free agents signed elsewhere. If no George, then perhaps a KCP strategy. Solid defender, plays hard and decent 3pt shooter. Just needs to be more selective IMO. In a strategy that relies on development instead of the quick fix he makes more sense.

Randle is a much more valued option IMO. I find it hard to put them in the same category. For me Randle should be a priority, KCP a nice fallback plan.

Going to be interesting to see these guys start signing contracts in a few weeks. Some of the speculated salaries seem way too low to me. (KCP at $8M, Randle under $16M?) Maybe I'm way off with what the market will support.

The market will be quite dry. Would the Sixers rather have Pope or Reddick?

Randle and Pope will get less than they expect because there won’t be enough buyers to drive up prices.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

^

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (1)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (2)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (3)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (4)
$10,447,727.......Julius Randle (sign below cap hold) (5)
$35,350,000.......LeBron (6)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (7)
____________
$92,661,807
$101,000,000 - $92,661,807 = $8,338,193 left


But we need to fill those slots

$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$4,156,555 needed to fill roster at 12.

$8,338,193 - $4,156,555 + $831,311 (remove hold for KCP) = ~$4M left



We can't pay KCP ~$8M.
What other moves were you planning? Get rid of some young guys? Or Lebron/PG taking less than max?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
^

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (1)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (2)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (3)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (4)
$10,447,727.......Julius Randle (sign below cap hold) (5)
$35,350,000.......LeBron (6)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (7)
____________
$92,661,807
$101,000,000 - $92,661,807 = $8,338,193 left


But we need to fill those slots

$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$4,156,555 needed to fill roster at 12.

$8,338,193 - $4,156,555 + $831,311 (remove hold for KCP) = ~$4M left



We can't pay KCP ~$8M.
What other moves were you planning? Get rid of some young guys? Or Lebron/PG taking less than max?


He wants to let Randle walk.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

Nope. James and George.

Renounce Pope.
Trade Deng with picks.
Resign Pope for 8 mill.


Oh, so no Randle is your premise then.
I'll take Randle over Pope.

I’d get a commitment (no ink) from Pope after he realizes that he’s only getting MLE money, probably late July.

I’d get commitments from George and James early, before Pope commits, but actually sign them after the Randle situation is resolved, which could go well into August, IMO.

After Randle realizes that he doesn’t have a market, he’ll be forced to resign with the Lakers for their price (around ten million per) or take the qualifying offer.

When Randle makes that difficult decision, you officially ink Pope, James, and George and ride off into the sunset.


You are thinking end of July or Aug for agreements to be reached?

I'd be surprised if both are not resolved a couple weeks into free agency at the latest. Free agency opens July 6th. JMO but I think Randle is going to get an offer sheet and Pope showed enough to be a solid second tier signing after the marquee players decide the direction of free agency.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

No, they could sign KCP to an $8M deal on 7/1 without renouncing him and that new contract figure would become his new hit on the Lakers cap while they pursue max free agents.


Really? Hmm. That's news to me.
Thanks. Not that I would questions BVH, but can someone confirm?

Quote:
Free agents continue to be included in team salary until one of the following happens:

The player signs a new contract with the same team. When this happens, the team salary reflects the player's new salary rather than his cap hold.

The player signs with a different team. As soon as this happens, the player becomes his new team's problem, and his salary no longer counts against his old team.

The team renounces the player.


But continuing onto #34.

Quote:
34. What does renouncing a player mean?

As detailed in question number 31, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exceptions (see question number 19) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. After renouncing a player, the team is still permitted to re-sign that player, but must either have enough cap room to fit the salary, or sign the player using the Minimum Salary exception. The exception to this is an Early Bird free agent who is coming off the second season of his rookie scale contract. Such players, when renounced, are treated as Non-Bird free agents.

Renouncing a player is noted in the portion I quoted. A team can re-sign a player to a new contract establishing a new value under the cap or can renounce and re-sign that player.

In your scenario, the Spurs, if over the cap, couldn't re-sign an aging Duncan to a lower salary without having to renounce his Bird Rights and use a cap exception to bring him back. A player's salary would only perpetually go up irrespective of performance and age until renounced by a team.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
^

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (1)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (2)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (3)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (4)
$10,447,727.......Julius Randle (sign below cap hold) (5)
$35,350,000.......LeBron (6)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (7)
____________
$92,661,807
$101,000,000 - $92,661,807 = $8,338,193 left


But we need to fill those slots

$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$4,156,555 needed to fill roster at 12.

$8,338,193 - $4,156,555 + $831,311 (remove hold for KCP) = ~$4M left



We can't pay KCP ~$8M.
What other moves were you planning? Get rid of some young guys? Or Lebron/PG taking less than max?

Under the old CBA you could go over the cap for minimum contracts, thus there would be no capholds for those number 8-12 guys you have listed above.

Has that changed without me knowing? If it has, I stand corrected.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
^

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (1)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (2)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (3)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (4)
$10,447,727.......Julius Randle (sign below cap hold) (5)
$35,350,000.......LeBron (6)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (7)
____________
$92,661,807
$101,000,000 - $92,661,807 = $8,338,193 left


But we need to fill those slots

$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$4,156,555 needed to fill roster at 12.

$8,338,193 - $4,156,555 + $831,311 (remove hold for KCP) = ~$4M left



We can't pay KCP ~$8M.
What other moves were you planning? Get rid of some young guys? Or Lebron/PG taking less than max?

Under the old CBA you could go over the cap for minimum contracts, thus there would be no capholds for those number 8-12 guys you have listed above.

Has that changed without me knowing? If it has, I stand corrected.


You can go over the cap for minimum contracts yes but they still have cap holds
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

Nope. James and George.

Renounce Pope.
Trade Deng with picks.
Resign Pope for 8 mill.


Oh, so no Randle is your premise then.
I'll take Randle over Pope.

I’d get a commitment (no ink) from Pope after he realizes that he’s only getting MLE money, probably late July.

I’d get commitments from George and James early, before Pope commits, but actually sign them after the Randle situation is resolved, which could go well into August, IMO.

After Randle realizes that he doesn’t have a market, he’ll be forced to resign with the Lakers for their price (around ten million per) or take the qualifying offer.

When Randle makes that difficult decision, you officially ink Pope, James, and George and ride off into the sunset.


You are thinking end of July or Aug for agreements to be reached?

I'd be surprised if both are not resolved a couple weeks into free agency at the latest. Free agency opens July 6th. JMO but I think Randle is going to get an offer sheet and Pope showed enough to be a solid second tier signing after the marquee players decide the direction of free agency.

Okay. I respect your opinion. Who signs Randle to an offer sheet though? And who signs Pope?

Out of all the teams with space (very few, by the way), who signs Randle and Pope?

I have Indiana and Dallas as suitors for Randle, but they’re both becoming bigger longshots by the day. Is there a team willing to pay Pope 10, 12, 14, 15 mill?

With Dallas possibly drafting a big and probably looking at Cousins, i don’t see a fit on many teams with space for neither Randle nor Pope.

Let’s talk though. Who do you see as a good fit for Randle and Pope (out of teams with space)?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
^

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (1)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (2)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (3)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (4)
$10,447,727.......Julius Randle (sign below cap hold) (5)
$35,350,000.......LeBron (6)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (7)
____________
$92,661,807
$101,000,000 - $92,661,807 = $8,338,193 left


But we need to fill those slots

$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$4,156,555 needed to fill roster at 12.

$8,338,193 - $4,156,555 + $831,311 (remove hold for KCP) = ~$4M left



We can't pay KCP ~$8M.
What other moves were you planning? Get rid of some young guys? Or Lebron/PG taking less than max?

Under the old CBA you could go over the cap for minimum contracts, thus there would be no capholds for those number 8-12 guys you have listed above.

Has that changed without me knowing? If it has, I stand corrected.


You can go over the cap for minimum contracts yes but they still have cap holds

Thank you. Again, I stand corrected. As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

Also, if Randle takes that qualifying offer, like I think he will, James and George won’t have to sacrifice a damn thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.

Randle’s the better player. Pope’s the better fit (with James, George, and Ingram). Simple as that for me.

When you’re building a team with no franchise players you can collect talented guys and hope for the best, when you have your cornerstones, you have to dulled properly around them.

Even with Hart, George, and Ingram on the roster, Pope is needed more than Randle, especially on a team with James and especially in a series with the Warriors.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

Nope. James and George.

Renounce Pope.
Trade Deng with picks.
Resign Pope for 8 mill.


Oh, so no Randle is your premise then.
I'll take Randle over Pope.

I’d get a commitment (no ink) from Pope after he realizes that he’s only getting MLE money, probably late July.

I’d get commitments from George and James early, before Pope commits, but actually sign them after the Randle situation is resolved, which could go well into August, IMO.

After Randle realizes that he doesn’t have a market, he’ll be forced to resign with the Lakers for their price (around ten million per) or take the qualifying offer.

When Randle makes that difficult decision, you officially ink Pope, James, and George and ride off into the sunset.


You are thinking end of July or Aug for agreements to be reached?

I'd be surprised if both are not resolved a couple weeks into free agency at the latest. Free agency opens July 6th. JMO but I think Randle is going to get an offer sheet and Pope showed enough to be a solid second tier signing after the marquee players decide the direction of free agency.

Okay. I respect your opinion. Who signs Randle to an offer sheet though? And who signs Pope?

Out of all the teams with space (very few, by the way), who signs Randle and Pope?

I have Indiana and Dallas as suitors for Randle, but they’re both becoming bigger longshots by the day. Is there a team willing to pay Pope 10, 12, 14, 15 mill?

With Dallas possibly drafting a big and probably looking at Cousins, i don’t see a fit on many teams with space for neither Randle nor Pope.

Let’s talk though. Who do you see as a good fit for Randle and Pope (out of teams with space)?


Obviously you have put much more thought into the various scenarios then I have. Trying to speculate specific 2nd tier options goes beyond my patience level and expertise. Simply my general impression that Randle and Pope have more value then being given credit for. Potentially both get a couple million more then you expect and a couple million less then I do.

So many scenarios can change. Will teams unexpectedly become players because of opt outs or trades to clear space? Could dry up the market more or increase some potential offers. Or draft day trades could make those sure thing bigs going to different teams.

You may be spot on with suitors and contracts. I tend to think that there are head scratching surprises every year that no one saw coming in free agency and the draft that upsets all the well laid plans.

We will find out in just a few weeks.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject:

Indeed we will. I must add though that value isn’t arbitrary. Value is determined by market. Both Randle and Pope will be affected by good old-fashioned supply and demand. There are just not enough buyers this summer, not enough demand for the supply (Pope and Randle). We’ll see.
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scooterp10
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.

Randle’s the better player. Pope’s the better fit (with James, George, and Ingram). Simple as that for me.

When you’re building a team with no franchise players you can collect talented guys and hope for the best, when you have your cornerstones, you have to dulled properly around them.

Even with Hart, George, and Ingram on the roster, Pope is needed more than Randle, especially on a team with James and especially in a series with the Warriors.


In my ideal scenario we keep Julius and Lopez.

Lonzo
PG
BI
LeBron
Randle

Hart
Kuzma
Lopez

I think that squad would be good vs the Warriors and makes the all Warriors have to play defense too.
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lakersibleed
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.


I feel KCP's contributions on a LBJ team are more valuable than Julius' though... Remember Julius' skills looked good on THIS team... just dont know how valuable his skills would be on NEXT YEARS team... I could see him fitting on our second unit maybe...but honestly there is probably going to be a better way to spend that money... But KCP would be an absolute steal on the bench next year to me!
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epak
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject:

lakersibleed wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.


I feel KCP's contributions on a LBJ team are more valuable than Julius' though... Remember Julius' skills looked good on THIS team... just dont know how valuable his skills would be on NEXT YEARS team... I could see him fitting on our second unit maybe...but honestly there is probably going to be a better way to spend that money... But KCP would be an absolute steal on the bench next year to me!


How much are you paying for that bench player?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject:

lakersibleed wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.


I feel KCP's contributions on a LBJ team are more valuable than Julius' though... Remember Julius' skills looked good on THIS team... just dont know how valuable his skills would be on NEXT YEARS team... I could see him fitting on our second unit maybe...but honestly there is probably going to be a better way to spend that money... But KCP would be an absolute steal on the bench next year to me!


It depends what Randle's price tag will end up being. A lot of people think there isn't much of a market for Julius. Dallas has been rumored to be interested in true 7-footers (Cousins, Deandre Jordan, Capela). Indiana might have interest but they already have a glut of bigs. There aren't many teams with capspace who will chase Randle. If we can get him at his cap-hold, he'll be more valuable than KCP at $8M-10M.
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Hector the Pup
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
^

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (1)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (2)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (3)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (4)
$10,447,727.......Julius Randle (sign below cap hold) (5)
$35,350,000.......LeBron (6)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (7)
____________
$92,661,807
$101,000,000 - $92,661,807 = $8,338,193 left


But we need to fill those slots

$831,311...........Min Salary (8)
$831,311...........Min Salary (9)
$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$4,156,555 needed to fill roster at 12.

$8,338,193 - $4,156,555 + $831,311 (remove hold for KCP) = ~$4M left



We can't pay KCP ~$8M.
What other moves were you planning? Get rid of some young guys? Or Lebron/PG taking less than max?

Under the old CBA you could go over the cap for minimum contracts, thus there would be no capholds for those number 8-12 guys you have listed above.

Has that changed without me knowing? If it has, I stand corrected.


There have always been cap holds for minimum contracts, but they use the minimum for a 2nd year player.
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lakersibleed
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.


Three point shooting is huge in this league NOW... You have to have players that can space the floor for LBJ and PG13.... All the young lakers need to be working on shooting this summer, we were second to last in the league as far as 3pt percentage goes.... and you think that Randle is as valuable as a guy that hit 160 of them for us last year?

I feel KCP's contributions on a LBJ team are more valuable than Julius' though... Remember Julius' skills looked good on THIS team... just dont know how valuable his skills would be on NEXT YEARS team... I could see him fitting on our second unit maybe...but honestly there is probably going to be a better way to spend that money... But KCP would be an absolute steal on the bench next year to me!


How much are you paying for that bench player?


All of that will shake itself out in a few weeks... I guess im just talking about who i would like to see on next years team provided that we are trying to compete for it all... Unless Randle somehow finds a way to get a consistent jumper or something resembling that his particular skill are overlapping to much to have a balanced roster. I would rather see D12 as a center/backupcenter on this team than have randle... Atleast you have some rim protection on your team.... IMO what randle offers you get in other players.. Not quite sure what Randle supporters are holding on to....with him on the court with lbj and pg13 what exactly does he offer?
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lakersibleed
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject:

scooterp10 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
As controversial as it may sound, if James and George were unwilling to sacrifice 2 mill apiece (completely understandable if they’d won’t), I’d let Randle walk (in favor of the cheaper Pope).



I'd disagree.
I feel KCP's contributions are easier to replace than Julius'.

Randle’s the better player. Pope’s the better fit (with James, George, and Ingram). Simple as that for me.

When you’re building a team with no franchise players you can collect talented guys and hope for the best, when you have your cornerstones, you have to dulled properly around them.

Even with Hart, George, and Ingram on the roster, Pope is needed more than Randle, especially on a team with James and especially in a series with the Warriors.


In my ideal scenario we keep Julius and Lopez.

Lonzo
PG
BI
LeBron
Randle

Hart
Kuzma
Lopez

I think that squad would be good vs the Warriors and makes the all Warriors have to play defense too.


Lonzo
PG
Bi
Lebron
D12-- Vet min after buyout play 25 minutes a game

KCP??
Kuzma
Hart
Lopez-- alternative to stretch the floor??
Frye
Caruso
Wagner

Carmello --Buyout later in season...
Dwade--- Buyout later in season....
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Pope for “MLE-level” money, around 8 mill.

In addition to Hart and Ingram and George, the Lakers need one more versatile defender who can shoot if they want to beat the Warriors.

Pope, because of his defense and shooting, may be more valuable in a series against the Warriors than would Randle.


You want to renounce him and then use 8m in cap for him?
I'd take a shot at tyreke over him at that price.

There's nothing to really renounce from the Lakers perspective.

What? You have to renounce free agents to free up all your space. That’s the definition of a caphold sir.

I know, I'm just saying that the Lakers won't be incentivized to not re-start his bird rights clock in order to free up more cap space by renouncing his hold.

I don't understand why they would care to bring him back unless he's willing to take the room exception, though. I'd prefer Randle to KCP if one of them is signed into cap space.


His cap hold is over $20M. If they don't renounce, they have to start his salary at that. Which no one is crazy enough to.

Note: Joe's premise is we're only getting PG and no Lebron I believe.

Nope. James and George.

Renounce Pope.
Trade Deng with picks.
Resign Pope for 8 mill.


Oh, so no Randle is your premise then.
I'll take Randle over Pope.

I’d get a commitment (no ink) from Pope after he realizes that he’s only getting MLE money, probably late July.

I’d get commitments from George and James early, before Pope commits, but actually sign them after the Randle situation is resolved, which could go well into August, IMO.

After Randle realizes that he doesn’t have a market, he’ll be forced to resign with the Lakers for their price (around ten million per) or take the qualifying offer.

When Randle makes that difficult decision, you officially ink Pope, James, and George and ride off into the sunset.
I like this plan. can we ink lopez for the vet min too?
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