Kobe Bryant doesn't buy the "LeBron has no help" excuses
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject:

venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
akk7 wrote:
I'm sure this has been brought up, but why didn't Kobe figure it out between 2005-2007?

He was so sick of his supporting cast he demanded a trade.


He's making these statements because he is frustrated he was not being considered in the GOAT conversation a few weeks ago, and now he is trying to sabotage our chances of getting Lebron because he doesn't want to see LA full of LeBron Laker jerseys.

BTW when has Lebron ever said anything negative about Kobe? He's said nothing but good things about him in the past. His comments reek of insecurity, and I am glad to see the media call him out on it.


When has LeBron ever been in a position to critique Kobe? If he was, I'm sure he would say something. Kobe didn't run to the media, the media ran to him, all for clicks.



Snitching on Shaq to the police? Complaining about roster personel and wanting to get traded to the Bulls? Butting heads with PJ? Publically advocating to trade teammates? The fact that he has the most missed shots in NBA history? The fact that the Lakers have never been able to recruit an all-star free agent during the post-Shaq years while Kobe was on the team while people actually want to sign to teams Lebron plays for? There is plenty of ammo Lebron could use but he stays silent. Besides like many commentators have already noted, Kobe is being a hypocrite considering the 'advice' he is giving out he never actually followed when he was playing.


I would love for Lebron to sign with the Lakers and wing a couple of rings, that would be the best way to stick to Kobe. Kobe is going to be livid if Lebron actually signs here.


I don't think you understood my question, but perhaps that's my fault for not being clear.

What I tried to ask was, when has LeBron been in a position to be asked by the media to comment on Kobe regarding purely basketball in regards to winning or a lack of winning?

You seem to think Kobe is coming out of the woodwork to critique LeBron due to supposed insecurity, when all that is really happening is an all time great is being asked for his opinion by the media. And the timing of the media reaching out to Kobe can also be explained due to LeBron potentially coming to Kobe's city.



Any time Lebron has been asked questions regarding Kobe, he has said nothing but positive things.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/01/lebron-james-says-he-wanted-to-be-like-kobe-bryant.ap/

And if Lebron is asked about Kobe's career, you really think he's going to throw shade at Kobe? That's not his character. He's never done that to any player or coach, like EVER. And as evidenced with JR Smith, if a reporter tries to bait him into bashing a teammate, he will deflect the question. BTW some of those quotes from Kobe are in response to random fans on Twitter, they're not all reporters. Why a guy like Kobe thinks it's worth his time to bash Lebron to a random Twitter user is baffling to me.


Don't you think there's world of difference in the context between what we're discussing here, and the article that you posted (Kobe's retirement year)?

Again, show me an instance of LeBron being asked his opinion when Kobe was struggling with Kwame and Smush, or the lack of success after 2010. That would be an apples to apples comparison.

The reality is, and to be fair, you can't speculate either way what LeBron would have said because he was never asked.



I can't find a quote on Lebron being asked when Kobe was struggling with Kobe and Smush, but what I can say is I'm sure it's come up plenty of times in his Twitter account from random fans and he has never bothered responding to them. Meanwhile, Kobe responds to random people on Twitter with negative statements on Lebron. Furthermore like I said, he's never said anything negative about any other player so I don't know why he would start now? Especially directing it at a player who isn't even playing anymore.

It's easy to say all he's doing is answering a question, but you dont think it's a little hypocritical that his 'advice' is something he never followed himself as a player? I think it is, and I don't think the timing of it is a coincidence. He starts responding to random people on Twitter at the same time is name is no longer being brought up in the GOAT discussion? At a time where is possible, he might sign with the Lakers? And even if he is asked a question regarding Kobe and the Smush years, he'll fine some way to spin it in a positive way about Kobe. That's just how he is, and his personality is a reason why players sign up to play for him. Can't say the same for Kobe as couldn't land any big name free agents during the post-Shaq era.


Can I please see an example of this? A clear cut example of him saying something negative about LeBron on twitter.

I do see this positive thing however. https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/1000943668071514112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slamonline.com%2Fnba%2Fkobe-bryant-weighs-in-michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-debate%2F

Also, I think it's clear he's taken his own advice. He even mentioned how he himself lamented to Jordan about having to face the Big 3 Celtics, and Jordan told him to figure it out. And he did.



He responded to a random twitter user about his path to the finals being harder than Lebron's due to him being in the West and using the Spurs as an example. It still in his feed, I don't know how to link tweets. BTW Kobe's record against the Spurs in the post Shaq era was 1-2, so I don't think that was a great example.

And he didn't really 'figure out' the big 3, considering the big 3 weren't as good as they were in 08. Furthermore he shot 6/24 in game 7 and managed to still win the game. How many games you think the Cavs win if Lebron shoots like that? He scored 50 in a game and still lost. It's easy to make a statement like that when you have help from Odom, Artest and Gasol. You really think Kobe would 'figure it out' against the stacked Warriors who are all in their prime with guys like Love/Smith and Korver? I highly doubt it. Lebron put up statistics in this years finals that trump anything Kobe has ever done in a finals series and they still got swept.

If Lebron were still playing with a Prime Wade, Bosh and Allen he might have a point but instead he tries to talk up players like Smith, Korver and Love. If Kobe were stuck playing with these guys he'd be demanding another trade like in 07.
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venky
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
akk7 wrote:
I'm sure this has been brought up, but why didn't Kobe figure it out between 2005-2007?

He was so sick of his supporting cast he demanded a trade.


He's making these statements because he is frustrated he was not being considered in the GOAT conversation a few weeks ago, and now he is trying to sabotage our chances of getting Lebron because he doesn't want to see LA full of LeBron Laker jerseys.

BTW when has Lebron ever said anything negative about Kobe? He's said nothing but good things about him in the past. His comments reek of insecurity, and I am glad to see the media call him out on it.


When has LeBron ever been in a position to critique Kobe? If he was, I'm sure he would say something. Kobe didn't run to the media, the media ran to him, all for clicks.



Snitching on Shaq to the police? Complaining about roster personel and wanting to get traded to the Bulls? Butting heads with PJ? Publically advocating to trade teammates? The fact that he has the most missed shots in NBA history? The fact that the Lakers have never been able to recruit an all-star free agent during the post-Shaq years while Kobe was on the team while people actually want to sign to teams Lebron plays for? There is plenty of ammo Lebron could use but he stays silent. Besides like many commentators have already noted, Kobe is being a hypocrite considering the 'advice' he is giving out he never actually followed when he was playing.


I would love for Lebron to sign with the Lakers and wing a couple of rings, that would be the best way to stick to Kobe. Kobe is going to be livid if Lebron actually signs here.


I don't think you understood my question, but perhaps that's my fault for not being clear.

What I tried to ask was, when has LeBron been in a position to be asked by the media to comment on Kobe regarding purely basketball in regards to winning or a lack of winning?

You seem to think Kobe is coming out of the woodwork to critique LeBron due to supposed insecurity, when all that is really happening is an all time great is being asked for his opinion by the media. And the timing of the media reaching out to Kobe can also be explained due to LeBron potentially coming to Kobe's city.



Any time Lebron has been asked questions regarding Kobe, he has said nothing but positive things.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/01/lebron-james-says-he-wanted-to-be-like-kobe-bryant.ap/

And if Lebron is asked about Kobe's career, you really think he's going to throw shade at Kobe? That's not his character. He's never done that to any player or coach, like EVER. And as evidenced with JR Smith, if a reporter tries to bait him into bashing a teammate, he will deflect the question. BTW some of those quotes from Kobe are in response to random fans on Twitter, they're not all reporters. Why a guy like Kobe thinks it's worth his time to bash Lebron to a random Twitter user is baffling to me.


Don't you think there's world of difference in the context between what we're discussing here, and the article that you posted (Kobe's retirement year)?

Again, show me an instance of LeBron being asked his opinion when Kobe was struggling with Kwame and Smush, or the lack of success after 2010. That would be an apples to apples comparison.

The reality is, and to be fair, you can't speculate either way what LeBron would have said because he was never asked.



I can't find a quote on Lebron being asked when Kobe was struggling with Kobe and Smush, but what I can say is I'm sure it's come up plenty of times in his Twitter account from random fans and he has never bothered responding to them. Meanwhile, Kobe responds to random people on Twitter with negative statements on Lebron. Furthermore like I said, he's never said anything negative about any other player so I don't know why he would start now? Especially directing it at a player who isn't even playing anymore.

It's easy to say all he's doing is answering a question, but you dont think it's a little hypocritical that his 'advice' is something he never followed himself as a player? I think it is, and I don't think the timing of it is a coincidence. He starts responding to random people on Twitter at the same time is name is no longer being brought up in the GOAT discussion? At a time where is possible, he might sign with the Lakers? And even if he is asked a question regarding Kobe and the Smush years, he'll fine some way to spin it in a positive way about Kobe. That's just how he is, and his personality is a reason why players sign up to play for him. Can't say the same for Kobe as couldn't land any big name free agents during the post-Shaq era.


Can I please see an example of this? A clear cut example of him saying something negative about LeBron on twitter.

I do see this positive thing however. https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/1000943668071514112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slamonline.com%2Fnba%2Fkobe-bryant-weighs-in-michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-debate%2F

Also, I think it's clear he's taken his own advice. He even mentioned how he himself lamented to Jordan about having to face the Big 3 Celtics, and Jordan told him to figure it out. And he did.



He responded to a random twitter user about his path to the finals being harder than Lebron's due to him being in the West and using the Spurs as an example. It still in his feed, I don't know how to link tweets. BTW Kobe's record against the Spurs in the post Shaq era was 1-2, so I don't think that was a great example.

And he didn't really 'figure out' the big 3, considering the big 3 weren't as good as they were in 08. Furthermore he shot 6/24 in game 7 and managed to still win the game. How many games you think the Cavs win if Lebron shoots like that? He scored 50 in a game and still lost. It's easy to make a statement like that when you have help from Odom, Artest and Gasol. You really think Kobe would 'figure it out' against the stacked Warriors who are all in their prime with guys like Love/Smith and Korver? I highly doubt it. Lebron put up statistics in this years finals that trump anything Kobe has ever done in a finals series and they still got swept.

If Lebron were still playing with a Prime Wade, Bosh and Allen he might have a point but instead he tries to talk up players like Smith, Korver and Love. If Kobe were stuck playing with these guys he'd be demanding another trade like in 07.


That's the tweet I thought you were referring to. I didn't take that as negative against LeBron. I took that as him defending himself about facing just as tough of competition as LeBron. Again, it was about HIM and his career, not LeBron.

I don't give LeBron a pass because he constructed those teams himself. You roll with the team that you have. LeBron still had Kevin Love, who averaged 20 and 10 throughout the series. That's just as good if not better than Kobe's second option during his 2 back to back title runs. His surrounding cast is not nearly as bad as advertised.

I would say Kobe figured it out. Kobe had great games in games 4 and 5, especially game 5, but we still lost. Sure, the Celtics were a bit older, but they were still the team that knocked out the 66 win LeBron led team.

Also, Kobe scored 10 4th quarter points in the 4th and outrebounded the Big 3 Celtics, both in game 7. His shot wasn't falling, but he still didn't quit. He attacked the glass, and that made ALL the difference in a 4 point win.

Also, you seem to dismiss that NO ONE shot well in that game 7, on the Lakers or the Celtics. It was a defensive blood bath.

But I'm not going to bleep on the Lakers cast though to make Kobe look better, because there's no need to.
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject:

venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
akk7 wrote:
I'm sure this has been brought up, but why didn't Kobe figure it out between 2005-2007?

He was so sick of his supporting cast he demanded a trade.


He's making these statements because he is frustrated he was not being considered in the GOAT conversation a few weeks ago, and now he is trying to sabotage our chances of getting Lebron because he doesn't want to see LA full of LeBron Laker jerseys.

BTW when has Lebron ever said anything negative about Kobe? He's said nothing but good things about him in the past. His comments reek of insecurity, and I am glad to see the media call him out on it.


When has LeBron ever been in a position to critique Kobe? If he was, I'm sure he would say something. Kobe didn't run to the media, the media ran to him, all for clicks.



Snitching on Shaq to the police? Complaining about roster personel and wanting to get traded to the Bulls? Butting heads with PJ? Publically advocating to trade teammates? The fact that he has the most missed shots in NBA history? The fact that the Lakers have never been able to recruit an all-star free agent during the post-Shaq years while Kobe was on the team while people actually want to sign to teams Lebron plays for? There is plenty of ammo Lebron could use but he stays silent. Besides like many commentators have already noted, Kobe is being a hypocrite considering the 'advice' he is giving out he never actually followed when he was playing.


I would love for Lebron to sign with the Lakers and wing a couple of rings, that would be the best way to stick to Kobe. Kobe is going to be livid if Lebron actually signs here.


I don't think you understood my question, but perhaps that's my fault for not being clear.

What I tried to ask was, when has LeBron been in a position to be asked by the media to comment on Kobe regarding purely basketball in regards to winning or a lack of winning?

You seem to think Kobe is coming out of the woodwork to critique LeBron due to supposed insecurity, when all that is really happening is an all time great is being asked for his opinion by the media. And the timing of the media reaching out to Kobe can also be explained due to LeBron potentially coming to Kobe's city.



Any time Lebron has been asked questions regarding Kobe, he has said nothing but positive things.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/01/lebron-james-says-he-wanted-to-be-like-kobe-bryant.ap/

And if Lebron is asked about Kobe's career, you really think he's going to throw shade at Kobe? That's not his character. He's never done that to any player or coach, like EVER. And as evidenced with JR Smith, if a reporter tries to bait him into bashing a teammate, he will deflect the question. BTW some of those quotes from Kobe are in response to random fans on Twitter, they're not all reporters. Why a guy like Kobe thinks it's worth his time to bash Lebron to a random Twitter user is baffling to me.


Don't you think there's world of difference in the context between what we're discussing here, and the article that you posted (Kobe's retirement year)?

Again, show me an instance of LeBron being asked his opinion when Kobe was struggling with Kwame and Smush, or the lack of success after 2010. That would be an apples to apples comparison.

The reality is, and to be fair, you can't speculate either way what LeBron would have said because he was never asked.



I can't find a quote on Lebron being asked when Kobe was struggling with Kobe and Smush, but what I can say is I'm sure it's come up plenty of times in his Twitter account from random fans and he has never bothered responding to them. Meanwhile, Kobe responds to random people on Twitter with negative statements on Lebron. Furthermore like I said, he's never said anything negative about any other player so I don't know why he would start now? Especially directing it at a player who isn't even playing anymore.

It's easy to say all he's doing is answering a question, but you dont think it's a little hypocritical that his 'advice' is something he never followed himself as a player? I think it is, and I don't think the timing of it is a coincidence. He starts responding to random people on Twitter at the same time is name is no longer being brought up in the GOAT discussion? At a time where is possible, he might sign with the Lakers? And even if he is asked a question regarding Kobe and the Smush years, he'll fine some way to spin it in a positive way about Kobe. That's just how he is, and his personality is a reason why players sign up to play for him. Can't say the same for Kobe as couldn't land any big name free agents during the post-Shaq era.


Can I please see an example of this? A clear cut example of him saying something negative about LeBron on twitter.

I do see this positive thing however. https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/1000943668071514112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slamonline.com%2Fnba%2Fkobe-bryant-weighs-in-michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-debate%2F

Also, I think it's clear he's taken his own advice. He even mentioned how he himself lamented to Jordan about having to face the Big 3 Celtics, and Jordan told him to figure it out. And he did.



He responded to a random twitter user about his path to the finals being harder than Lebron's due to him being in the West and using the Spurs as an example. It still in his feed, I don't know how to link tweets. BTW Kobe's record against the Spurs in the post Shaq era was 1-2, so I don't think that was a great example.

And he didn't really 'figure out' the big 3, considering the big 3 weren't as good as they were in 08. Furthermore he shot 6/24 in game 7 and managed to still win the game. How many games you think the Cavs win if Lebron shoots like that? He scored 50 in a game and still lost. It's easy to make a statement like that when you have help from Odom, Artest and Gasol. You really think Kobe would 'figure it out' against the stacked Warriors who are all in their prime with guys like Love/Smith and Korver? I highly doubt it. Lebron put up statistics in this years finals that trump anything Kobe has ever done in a finals series and they still got swept.

If Lebron were still playing with a Prime Wade, Bosh and Allen he might have a point but instead he tries to talk up players like Smith, Korver and Love. If Kobe were stuck playing with these guys he'd be demanding another trade like in 07.


That's the tweet I thought you were referring to. I didn't take that as negative against LeBron. I took that as him defending himself about facing just as tough of competition as LeBron. Again, it was about HIM and his career, not LeBron.

I don't give LeBron a pass because he constructed those teams himself. You roll with the team that you have. LeBron still had Kevin Love, who averaged 20 and 10 throughout the series. That's just as good if not better than Kobe's second option during his 2 back to back title runs. His surrounding cast is not nearly as bad as advertised.

I would say Kobe figured it out. Kobe had great games in games 4 and 5, especially game 5, but we still lost. Sure, the Celtics were a bit older, but they were still the team that knocked out the 66 win LeBron led team.

Also, Kobe scored 10 4th quarter points in the 4th and outrebounded the Big 3 Celtics, both in game 7. His shot wasn't falling, but he still didn't quit. He attacked the glass, and that made ALL the difference in a 4 point win.

Also, you seem to dismiss that NO ONE shot well in that game 7, on the Lakers or the Celtics. It was a defensive blood bath.


Yeah but the question in the tweet was hypothetical which included Lebron, from some random fan and here he is chiming in on it. I see it as another swipe, you don't. It's fine.

And while Love averaged 20/10, he shot a poor percentage and everyone else shot a poor percentage as well. Not sure how you can expect him to win games when your teammates don't show up. And yes I agree he had a hand in crafting those teams, however that doesn't excuse his teammates for failing to show up in the finals. All of these guys like Love/JR Smith/Korver played better in the regular season and in the playoffs but failed to show up in the finals.


And there is a big difference between the situation between Kobe playing against the big 3 in 10 and Lebron vs the current Cavs in that Kobe had a competitive roster against the Celtics and the Cavs don't against the Warriors. There is nothing for Lebron to figure out with you're playing against Durant, Curry, Thompson and Green when you have Love/JR Smith/Korver as teammates.

There is no way to 'figure them out' unless you have a roster similar to theirs.


And I disagree about Kobe 'figuring it out' against the Celtics. As I mentioned he had a more competitive roster against them and his job is to score, which he failed to do in game 7 and had teammates like Artest and Pau to help pick up the scoring load for him and that's why they won.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject:

Still mad.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Compared to GS and Houston, every team is terrible. Super teams are where it’s at these days. That’s why CP3 went to Houston. And it looked like it was going to work until his injury. He never “figured it out” with New Orleans and the Clippers.

Seems like what Kobe is talking about is an idea that’s outdated. These days when you can’t figure it out, you create (or join up with) a super team. Lebron and Durant won rings doing it, and CP3 made the conference finals which is like winning a championship for him.


cp3 never had a chance to "figure it out"

you guys are missing kobe's point.

Lets go over this slowly.


The bron narrative is this.

He's the greatest... look at how many times he's been to the finals.

Other basketball minds say "yeah but look at how weak the east has been the entire time."

bron lovers: he's the greatest who else is in the finals like this?

Other basketball minds " i just told you, the east is super weak its much easier to do that in the east."

Kobe says " Once you get to the finals, odds are you're teammates are good enough you dont need to get more stars to help. you're already good enough to get that far." "now all you need to do is coach your teammates up to be the best they can be."

Ask yourselves. was JR smith the best he could be? Kevin love played better, Was Green the best he could be? how about clarkson? how's about hood? I'll give them a pass on G hill he had back spasms.

So if the bron lovers are saying he's great because he keeps getting to the finals. Then that means the eastern conf comp is great. which means his teammates are more than capable of beating whoever they face in the finals since they keep getting their thru stiff comp.

OR the bron lovers will finally have to admit. the east is weak. which makes bron getting to the finals not so big of a deal. and would mean thats why he can keep getting to the finals with this same roster more or less even though he wont win. its because the east is so much weaker than the west. Which would also make a case for no more conferences. and lets have the 2 best on opposite brackets.



CP3 played with Blake, DeAndre and JJ Redick as his 3 best teammates. I think that’s more than Lebron had to work with this year. I think Lebron with those guys would be awesome.

And I didn’t miss the point. I just think those comments from Kobe are outdated. Today we have super teams that are far more talented than the rest of the league. Expecting Lebron to “figure it out” against them is pretty silly IMO. We live in a time when the last 3 Finals MVPs are guys that joined up with super teams because they couldn’t win with their other teams.

Lebron is obviously the guy that started this too so I’m not exactly praising him either.


again, you are missing the point. did kobe not beat a "super team" yes he did. the celtics with 3 hall of famers and rondo.

1st ballot guys did kobe have on his team that beat the celtics? one...Himself. Gasol might make the hall(i think he should). even if you give kobe 2 counting himself and gasol. the rest of the guys were role players.

he got it done why? because once he got to the finals and got smacked around. he knew he had enough talent. he just needed to coach his guys up. which is exactly what kobe did. bron on the other hand is having non of that. if it doesnt work he goes straight for more talent, more talent, more talent. he isnt going to coach his guys up to that next level. Now if you're saying thats not fair look at how good gstate is. I will say but houston just pushed them to 7 games and the cavs got swept. I mean the pelicans got a couple of games off. So that means what? The only reason bron is living in the finals like that every season is not due to his greatest as much as its due to the lack of comp in the east. You can't have it both ways. he can't be the greatest, and always need MORE talent even after making the finals. Or we have to finally admit the only reason he's there is due to the east being weak.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
akk7 wrote:
I'm sure this has been brought up, but why didn't Kobe figure it out between 2005-2007?

He was so sick of his supporting cast he demanded a trade.


He's making these statements because he is frustrated he was not being considered in the GOAT conversation a few weeks ago, and now he is trying to sabotage our chances of getting Lebron because he doesn't want to see LA full of LeBron Laker jerseys.

BTW when has Lebron ever said anything negative about Kobe? He's said nothing but good things about him in the past. His comments reek of insecurity, and I am glad to see the media call him out on it.


When has LeBron ever been in a position to critique Kobe? If he was, I'm sure he would say something. Kobe didn't run to the media, the media ran to him, all for clicks.



Snitching on Shaq to the police? Complaining about roster personel and wanting to get traded to the Bulls? Butting heads with PJ? Publically advocating to trade teammates? The fact that he has the most missed shots in NBA history? The fact that the Lakers have never been able to recruit an all-star free agent during the post-Shaq years while Kobe was on the team while people actually want to sign to teams Lebron plays for? There is plenty of ammo Lebron could use but he stays silent. Besides like many commentators have already noted, Kobe is being a hypocrite considering the 'advice' he is giving out he never actually followed when he was playing.


I would love for Lebron to sign with the Lakers and wing a couple of rings, that would be the best way to stick to Kobe. Kobe is going to be livid if Lebron actually signs here.


I don't think you understood my question, but perhaps that's my fault for not being clear.

What I tried to ask was, when has LeBron been in a position to be asked by the media to comment on Kobe regarding purely basketball in regards to winning or a lack of winning?

You seem to think Kobe is coming out of the woodwork to critique LeBron due to supposed insecurity, when all that is really happening is an all time great is being asked for his opinion by the media. And the timing of the media reaching out to Kobe can also be explained due to LeBron potentially coming to Kobe's city.



Any time Lebron has been asked questions regarding Kobe, he has said nothing but positive things.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/01/lebron-james-says-he-wanted-to-be-like-kobe-bryant.ap/

And if Lebron is asked about Kobe's career, you really think he's going to throw shade at Kobe? That's not his character. He's never done that to any player or coach, like EVER. And as evidenced with JR Smith, if a reporter tries to bait him into bashing a teammate, he will deflect the question. BTW some of those quotes from Kobe are in response to random fans on Twitter, they're not all reporters. Why a guy like Kobe thinks it's worth his time to bash Lebron to a random Twitter user is baffling to me.


Don't you think there's world of difference in the context between what we're discussing here, and the article that you posted (Kobe's retirement year)?

Again, show me an instance of LeBron being asked his opinion when Kobe was struggling with Kwame and Smush, or the lack of success after 2010. That would be an apples to apples comparison.

The reality is, and to be fair, you can't speculate either way what LeBron would have said because he was never asked.



I can't find a quote on Lebron being asked when Kobe was struggling with Kobe and Smush, but what I can say is I'm sure it's come up plenty of times in his Twitter account from random fans and he has never bothered responding to them. Meanwhile, Kobe responds to random people on Twitter with negative statements on Lebron. Furthermore like I said, he's never said anything negative about any other player so I don't know why he would start now? Especially directing it at a player who isn't even playing anymore.

It's easy to say all he's doing is answering a question, but you dont think it's a little hypocritical that his 'advice' is something he never followed himself as a player? I think it is, and I don't think the timing of it is a coincidence. He starts responding to random people on Twitter at the same time is name is no longer being brought up in the GOAT discussion? At a time where is possible, he might sign with the Lakers? And even if he is asked a question regarding Kobe and the Smush years, he'll fine some way to spin it in a positive way about Kobe. That's just how he is, and his personality is a reason why players sign up to play for him. Can't say the same for Kobe as couldn't land any big name free agents during the post-Shaq era.


Can I please see an example of this? A clear cut example of him saying something negative about LeBron on twitter.

I do see this positive thing however. https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/1000943668071514112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slamonline.com%2Fnba%2Fkobe-bryant-weighs-in-michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-debate%2F

Also, I think it's clear he's taken his own advice. He even mentioned how he himself lamented to Jordan about having to face the Big 3 Celtics, and Jordan told him to figure it out. And he did.



He responded to a random twitter user about his path to the finals being harder than Lebron's due to him being in the West and using the Spurs as an example. It still in his feed, I don't know how to link tweets. BTW Kobe's record against the Spurs in the post Shaq era was 1-2, so I don't think that was a great example.

And he didn't really 'figure out' the big 3, considering the big 3 weren't as good as they were in 08. Furthermore he shot 6/24 in game 7 and managed to still win the game. How many games you think the Cavs win if Lebron shoots like that? He scored 50 in a game and still lost. It's easy to make a statement like that when you have help from Odom, Artest and Gasol. You really think Kobe would 'figure it out' against the stacked Warriors who are all in their prime with guys like Love/Smith and Korver? I highly doubt it. Lebron put up statistics in this years finals that trump anything Kobe has ever done in a finals series and they still got swept.

If Lebron were still playing with a Prime Wade, Bosh and Allen he might have a point but instead he tries to talk up players like Smith, Korver and Love. If Kobe were stuck playing with these guys he'd be demanding another trade like in 07.


That's the tweet I thought you were referring to. I didn't take that as negative against LeBron. I took that as him defending himself about facing just as tough of competition as LeBron. Again, it was about HIM and his career, not LeBron.

I don't give LeBron a pass because he constructed those teams himself. You roll with the team that you have. LeBron still had Kevin Love, who averaged 20 and 10 throughout the series. That's just as good if not better than Kobe's second option during his 2 back to back title runs. His surrounding cast is not nearly as bad as advertised.

I would say Kobe figured it out. Kobe had great games in games 4 and 5, especially game 5, but we still lost. Sure, the Celtics were a bit older, but they were still the team that knocked out the 66 win LeBron led team.

Also, Kobe scored 10 4th quarter points in the 4th and outrebounded the Big 3 Celtics, both in game 7. His shot wasn't falling, but he still didn't quit. He attacked the glass, and that made ALL the difference in a 4 point win.

Also, you seem to dismiss that NO ONE shot well in that game 7, on the Lakers or the Celtics. It was a defensive blood bath.


Yeah but the question in the tweet was hypothetical which included Lebron, from some random fan and here he is chiming in on it. I see it as another swipe, you don't. It's fine.

And while Love averaged 20/10, he shot a poor percentage and everyone else shot a poor percentage as well. Not sure how you can expect him to win games when your teammates don't show up. And yes I agree he had a hand in crafting those teams, however that doesn't excuse his teammates for failing to show up in the finals. All of these guys like Love/JR Smith/Korver played better in the regular season and in the playoffs but failed to show up in the finals.


And there is a big difference between the situation between Kobe playing against the big 3 in 10 and Lebron vs the current Cavs in that Kobe had a competitive roster against the Celtics and the Cavs don't against the Warriors. There is nothing for Lebron to figure out with you're playing against Durant, Curry, Thompson and Green when you have Love/JR Smith/Korver as teammates.

There is no way to 'figure them out' unless you have a roster similar to theirs.


And I disagree about Kobe 'figuring it out' against the Celtics. As I mentioned he had a more competitive roster against them and his job is to score, which he failed to do in game 7 and had teammates like Artest and Pau to help pick up the scoring load for him and that's why they won.
the only way you see that as another swipe is if you get all in your feelings when someone mentions the fact that bron is not on the mountain top all by himself. its as if a person asks another great player about their road to winning in comparison to bron and they can't say anything because it may hurt bron's fans feelings? the only reason anyone's feelings would get hurt in these discussions is because you know in your heart of hearts that bron isnt what the media makes him out to be. He is a great player among other great players. but he is not better than jordan, he is not better than magic, kareem, nor kobe .yet he's still great. it's not a slight to say that either. its the truth. to make it seem like bron is this special among the special greats because he goes to the finals all the time disregarding the fact he's in the weak east is a slight to every western conference superstar that ever played.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject:

george kush will always take an opportunity to dig at kobe. best to not waste time there.


Anyway, people asking "how come Kobe didn't figure it out 2005-2007!?"

Are missing the point entirely, particularly as Kobe referenced getting to the Finals. Thus you got to the Finals, you figure it out when you fail.

Did Kobe ever get to the Finals with Smush?

Anyway, when you judge what Kobe is saying, you look at the 2007 Finals.

You look at the team that failed there, and you watch and listen to what Kobe said, at that time about changing his leadership strategy, and taking the time to getting the guys to that level, his teammates, with how he worked with them in practice to otherwise, and pushing them to that level.

Kobe's mentality was that they had enough to make it to the Finals but didn't win, so what could he do as a leader to get those guys across the jump and over the top, as players and with that mentality.

That is precisely what he dedicated that season to, and it worked, they got back to the Finals and they didn't fail. Then they came back the next year and beat the same Celtics team. And that Celtics team steamrolled the Heat, and the Cavs and the Magic(last years Finals team) in 6 games.


We got that series despite Bynum still being injured. And we didn't use that as an excuse.


Anyway, you look at how Kobe's leadership evolved after that 07 loss and what he went about and how he empowered his teammates and how that lead to the successes the next 2 seasons after that and not being afraid to take all the blame on himself and use that responsibility to push himself, and his teammates.

This is what Kobe references. As LeBron doesn't do that, LeBron is more focused on controlling the narrative, ducking out of blame's way, and letting the media come down on his teammates instead, which is why Kyrie is no longer there and why Love very likely wants out. This is the same man that pushed for the FO to re-sign JR Smith and Tristan Thompson to their huge contracts, and then cried about the salary being taken up by the team that had spent the most money in the NBA for him. Then he just needed an extra ball handler, a shooter and some bench depth. He wound up getting George Hill, Kyle Korver, Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance Jr and Jeff Green. That's about as best as it gets. They did everything he asked and went above and beyond to put the pieces around him he asked for, yet he still wants to duck and dodge any kind of blame and is fine with the media protecting him. He even feeds into it himself with his narrative controlling. that's what he needs.

Whereas Kobe took the loss as needing to improve as a leader and going about how he could do that while helping his teammates get to the level they needed to get to. That was the crux behind his and Phil Jackson's previous "doing too much" conversation.

So some have either missed the point, or are moving the goalposts to try to make a point that isn't even there to be made.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Only people who have a problem with what Kobe said are insecure LeBron Stans that had their jimmies rustled.


I’m not a “LeBron Stan”, and I’m bothered by it. It’s not a good look on the eve of a huge free agency period. That shouldn’t even be controversial, and absolutely wouldn’t be if we were talking about another team.

And rereading this and other threads, it seems you have it a bit backward. The insecurity seems to be coming from Kobe’s defenders. I give you guys some benefit as this is a Lakers site, but damn dude, there’s some serious projection going on.

That doesn’t absolve a few guys who seem to enjoy digging at Kobe. I see you too.


Can you blame them though? I mean, this is Lakersground, I don't come here expecting to read objective opinions about other teams, especially in the Lounge
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

he got it done why? because once he got to the finals and got smacked around. he knew he had enough talent. he just needed to coach his guys up.



Here's the difference between Kobe and Lebron's experience. As you admitted, Kobe felt he had enough talent to beat the Celtics, which he did. We ALL KNOW Lebron did not have enough talent to defeat the Warriors. There is no amount of 'coaching up' he can provide to Love/JR Smith/George Hill/ and is suddenly going to make them as good as Durant/Curry/Thompson. Simple as that..

Furthermore the following year he got swept out of the playoffs by the Mavericks with essentially the same roster. Why didn't he 'figure it out' then?

Here's what Phil Jackson said after they were swept by the Maverics:

Quote:
"This team just had an ability to get in a funk and not be able to heal and surge, to find that common thread to come back and turn things around," Jackson said Wednesday in his final address to the media as coach of the Lakers. "And I never really had a team like that, that couldn't make adjustments and learn from mistakes."


Funny how Kobe couldn't 'figure it out' in this situation, even though they essentially had the same roster as the year before when they won a championship, and finished with the same regular season record as the year before.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject:

pkflyers wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Only people who have a problem with what Kobe said are insecure LeBron Stans that had their jimmies rustled.


I’m not a “LeBron Stan”, and I’m bothered by it. It’s not a good look on the eve of a huge free agency period. That shouldn’t even be controversial, and absolutely wouldn’t be if we were talking about another team.

And rereading this and other threads, it seems you have it a bit backward. The insecurity seems to be coming from Kobe’s defenders. I give you guys some benefit as this is a Lakers site, but damn dude, there’s some serious projection going on.

That doesn’t absolve a few guys who seem to enjoy digging at Kobe. I see you too.


Can you blame them though? I mean, this is Lakersground, I don't come here expecting to read objective opinions about other teams, especially in the Lounge


Yes, and to a degree I allow more latitude. But there are some uber fans of a single player who go bat (bleep) every time someone says something even tepidly complimentary about their guy, and rip everyone who disagrees, and complain that the other guys are coming at them or always showing up, yet there they are. I call them Team Temecula.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

again, you are missing the point. did kobe not beat a "super team" yes he did. the celtics with 3 hall of famers and rondo.

1st ballot guys did kobe have on his team that beat the celtics? one...Himself. Gasol might make the hall(i think he should). even if you give kobe 2 counting himself and gasol. the rest of the guys were role players.



It’s an interesting question about whether the Lakers or Celtics had more talent; I don’t have a strong opinion since I find them fairly close. For what it’s worth,and for fun – just some data points:

1. The Celtics were #15 on offense and #5 on defense. They had the fourth best record in the east; they were tied with three other teams for the 9th best record in the league.

2. The Lakers were #11 on offense and #4 on defense. They had the best record in the west; they had the 3rd best record in the west.

3. They each had a winning margin of 4 points a game or so – good, but not dominating.

4. Just as the 7 game series was tight, the teams were evenly matched in the regularly season, splitting two games, each of which were won by only 1 point.

5. The web site 538 ranks team using a system called ELO, which is based on a system developed by physicist Arpad Elo to rank chess players. In 2015, 538 ranked the best finals teams in the past 30 years based on their ELO score. Surprising to me, the 2009-10 Lakers were #4 and the Celtics were #43, which placed them a few slots below the 2009-10 Cavaliers.

6. In terms of end-of-season awards, Kobe made first team all-NBA and Pau made third team. Rondo was first runner up for the 3rd team at guard, but the big three got virtually no votes. In fact, Bynum got more all-NBA votes than Garnett, though neither got a significant number (and it’s not apples to apples since they play different positions).

7. In other awards, Kobe made #1 all-defensive team, and Artest was first runner-up for the forward spot on the second team. Garnett, Perkins, Odom, and Gasol (in that order) got a few votes, but none of them were in serious contention to make the team.

8. If you look beyond that season to their overall careers, it's clear the Celtics players have the edge. They will have 3 likely Hall of Famers, while the Lakers have 2 likely Hall of Famers. Rondo was a four-time all-star, as was Rasheed Wallace who came off the bench for them. Bynum made one all-star team, as did Artest who also won DPoY. Odom won 6th man of the year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
splashmtn wrote:

again, you are missing the point. did kobe not beat a "super team" yes he did. the celtics with 3 hall of famers and rondo.

1st ballot guys did kobe have on his team that beat the celtics? one...Himself. Gasol might make the hall(i think he should). even if you give kobe 2 counting himself and gasol. the rest of the guys were role players.



It’s an interesting question about whether the Lakers or Celtics had more talent; I don’t have a strong opinion since I find them fairly close. For what it’s worth,and for fun – just some data points:

1. The Celtics were #15 on offense and #5 on defense. They had the fourth best record in the east; they were tied with three other teams for the 9th best record in the league.

2. The Lakers were #11 on offense and #4 on defense. They had the best record in the west; they had the 3rd best record in the west.

3. They each had a winning margin of 4 points a game or so – good, but not dominating.

4. Just as the 7 game series was tight, the teams were evenly matched in the regularly season, splitting two games, each of which were won by only 1 point.

5. The web site 538 ranks team using a system called ELO, which is based on a system developed by physicist Arpad Elo to rank chess players. In 2015, 538 ranked the best finals teams in the past 30 years based on their ELO score. Surprising to me, the 2009-10 Lakers were #4 and the Celtics were #43, which placed them a few slots below the 2009-10 Cavaliers.

6. In terms of end-of-season awards, Kobe made first team all-NBA and Pau made third team. Rondo was first runner up for the 3rd team at guard, but the big three got virtually no votes. In fact, Bynum got more all-NBA votes than Garnett, though neither got a significant number (and it’s not apples to apples since they play different positions).

7. In other awards, Kobe made #1 all-defensive team, and Artest was first runner-up for the forward spot on the second team. Garnett, Perkins, Odom, and Gasol (in that order) got a few votes, but none of them were in serious contention to make the team.

8. If you look beyond that season to their overall careers, it's clear the Celtics players have the edge. They will have 3 likely Hall of Famers, while the Lakers have 2 likely Hall of Famers. Rondo was a four-time all-star, as was Rasheed Wallace who came off the bench for them. Bynum made one all-star team, as did Artest who also won DPoY. Odom won 6th man of the year.


That's because we had a Kobe which was the best player in the league but the Celtics had the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and arguably 5th (depending on where you place Pau) in that Series... 4 all stars vs 2 all stars
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
splashmtn wrote:

again, you are missing the point. did kobe not beat a "super team" yes he did. the celtics with 3 hall of famers and rondo.

1st ballot guys did kobe have on his team that beat the celtics? one...Himself. Gasol might make the hall(i think he should). even if you give kobe 2 counting himself and gasol. the rest of the guys were role players.



It’s an interesting question about whether the Lakers or Celtics had more talent; I don’t have a strong opinion since I find them fairly close. For what it’s worth,and for fun – just some data points:

1. The Celtics were #15 on offense and #5 on defense. They had the fourth best record in the east; they were tied with three other teams for the 9th best record in the league.

2. The Lakers were #11 on offense and #4 on defense. They had the best record in the west; they had the 3rd best record in the west.

3. They each had a winning margin of 4 points a game or so – good, but not dominating.

4. Just as the 7 game series was tight, the teams were evenly matched in the regularly season, splitting two games, each of which were won by only 1 point.

5. The web site 538 ranks team using a system called ELO, which is based on a system developed by physicist Arpad Elo to rank chess players. In 2015, 538 ranked the best finals teams in the past 30 years based on their ELO score. Surprising to me, the 2009-10 Lakers were #4 and the Celtics were #43, which placed them a few slots below the 2009-10 Cavaliers.

6. In terms of end-of-season awards, Kobe made first team all-NBA and Pau made third team. Rondo was first runner up for the 3rd team at guard, but the big three got virtually no votes. In fact, Bynum got more all-NBA votes than Garnett, though neither got a significant number (and it’s not apples to apples since they play different positions).

7. In other awards, Kobe made #1 all-defensive team, and Artest was first runner-up for the forward spot on the second team. Garnett, Perkins, Odom, and Gasol (in that order) got a few votes, but none of them were in serious contention to make the team.

8. If you look beyond that season to their overall careers, it's clear the Celtics players have the edge. They will have 3 likely Hall of Famers, while the Lakers have 2 likely Hall of Famers. Rondo was a four-time all-star, as was Rasheed Wallace who came off the bench for them. Bynum made one all-star team, as did Artest who also won DPoY. Odom won 6th man of the year.


That's because we had a Kobe which was the best player in the league but the Celtics had the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and arguably 5th (depending on where you place Pau) in that Series... 4 all stars vs 2 all stars


Kobe was definitely the best player in the series, but there is definitely a good case to be made that the Laker supporting cast after him was equivalent to the Celtics supporting cast after whoever you consider their best player.

You can also make a strong case that, at that point in everyone's career, Gasol was the second best player on the court. The all-NBA team voters who placed him above Garnett seem to think so.

To me, this is an interesting topic about how to measure talent. For example, Ray Allen had a much better career than Lamar Odom, but I am not sold that by 2009-10 he was a better player than Odom.

Personally, I am not a fan of using all-star appearances as a way of evaluating teams for two reasons: 1. They are awarded based on performance for only the first half of the season. 2. All star appearances are conference based, so it's not all apples to apples; the fact that a player makes the all-star team in one conference does not inherently mean he's better than a player from another conference at the same position who doesn't make team. That's why I prefer end of season all-NBA voting that cuts across conference lines.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Number of 50 win teams beaten in the playoffs:
Kobe(without Shaq) - 10
MJ - 20
Bron - 13.




Fixed for you.


Kobe played in the playoffs without Shaq from 2005-2012 (except he was injured and missed the 2012 playoffs and the 2005 team missed the playoffs because of injuries that season). So 10 is actually pretty good because we’re not talking about that many years.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject:

thats cool. now do a Lebron without Wade&Kyrie
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
venky wrote:
george w kush wrote:
akk7 wrote:
I'm sure this has been brought up, but why didn't Kobe figure it out between 2005-2007?

He was so sick of his supporting cast he demanded a trade.


He's making these statements because he is frustrated he was not being considered in the GOAT conversation a few weeks ago, and now he is trying to sabotage our chances of getting Lebron because he doesn't want to see LA full of LeBron Laker jerseys.

BTW when has Lebron ever said anything negative about Kobe? He's said nothing but good things about him in the past. His comments reek of insecurity, and I am glad to see the media call him out on it.


When has LeBron ever been in a position to critique Kobe? If he was, I'm sure he would say something. Kobe didn't run to the media, the media ran to him, all for clicks.



Snitching on Shaq to the police? Complaining about roster personel and wanting to get traded to the Bulls? Butting heads with PJ? Publically advocating to trade teammates? The fact that he has the most missed shots in NBA history? The fact that the Lakers have never been able to recruit an all-star free agent during the post-Shaq years while Kobe was on the team while people actually want to sign to teams Lebron plays for? There is plenty of ammo Lebron could use but he stays silent. Besides like many commentators have already noted, Kobe is being a hypocrite considering the 'advice' he is giving out he never actually followed when he was playing.


I would love for Lebron to sign with the Lakers and wing a couple of rings, that would be the best way to stick to Kobe. Kobe is going to be livid if Lebron actually signs here.


I don't think you understood my question, but perhaps that's my fault for not being clear.

What I tried to ask was, when has LeBron been in a position to be asked by the media to comment on Kobe regarding purely basketball in regards to winning or a lack of winning?

You seem to think Kobe is coming out of the woodwork to critique LeBron due to supposed insecurity, when all that is really happening is an all time great is being asked for his opinion by the media. And the timing of the media reaching out to Kobe can also be explained due to LeBron potentially coming to Kobe's city.



Any time Lebron has been asked questions regarding Kobe, he has said nothing but positive things.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/01/lebron-james-says-he-wanted-to-be-like-kobe-bryant.ap/

And if Lebron is asked about Kobe's career, you really think he's going to throw shade at Kobe? That's not his character. He's never done that to any player or coach, like EVER. And as evidenced with JR Smith, if a reporter tries to bait him into bashing a teammate, he will deflect the question. BTW some of those quotes from Kobe are in response to random fans on Twitter, they're not all reporters. Why a guy like Kobe thinks it's worth his time to bash Lebron to a random Twitter user is baffling to me.


Don't you think there's world of difference in the context between what we're discussing here, and the article that you posted (Kobe's retirement year)?

Again, show me an instance of LeBron being asked his opinion when Kobe was struggling with Kwame and Smush, or the lack of success after 2010. That would be an apples to apples comparison.

The reality is, and to be fair, you can't speculate either way what LeBron would have said because he was never asked.



I can't find a quote on Lebron being asked when Kobe was struggling with Kobe and Smush, but what I can say is I'm sure it's come up plenty of times in his Twitter account from random fans and he has never bothered responding to them. Meanwhile, Kobe responds to random people on Twitter with negative statements on Lebron. Furthermore like I said, he's never said anything negative about any other player so I don't know why he would start now? Especially directing it at a player who isn't even playing anymore.

It's easy to say all he's doing is answering a question, but you dont think it's a little hypocritical that his 'advice' is something he never followed himself as a player? I think it is, and I don't think the timing of it is a coincidence. He starts responding to random people on Twitter at the same time is name is no longer being brought up in the GOAT discussion? At a time where is possible, he might sign with the Lakers? And even if he is asked a question regarding Kobe and the Smush years, he'll fine some way to spin it in a positive way about Kobe. That's just how he is, and his personality is a reason why players sign up to play for him. Can't say the same for Kobe as couldn't land any big name free agents during the post-Shaq era.


Can I please see an example of this? A clear cut example of him saying something negative about LeBron on twitter.

I do see this positive thing however. https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/1000943668071514112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slamonline.com%2Fnba%2Fkobe-bryant-weighs-in-michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-debate%2F

Also, I think it's clear he's taken his own advice. He even mentioned how he himself lamented to Jordan about having to face the Big 3 Celtics, and Jordan told him to figure it out. And he did.



He responded to a random twitter user about his path to the finals being harder than Lebron's due to him being in the West and using the Spurs as an example. It still in his feed, I don't know how to link tweets. BTW Kobe's record against the Spurs in the post Shaq era was 1-2, so I don't think that was a great example.

And he didn't really 'figure out' the big 3, considering the big 3 weren't as good as they were in 08. Furthermore he shot 6/24 in game 7 and managed to still win the game. How many games you think the Cavs win if Lebron shoots like that? He scored 50 in a game and still lost. It's easy to make a statement like that when you have help from Odom, Artest and Gasol. You really think Kobe would 'figure it out' against the stacked Warriors who are all in their prime with guys like Love/Smith and Korver? I highly doubt it. Lebron put up statistics in this years finals that trump anything Kobe has ever done in a finals series and they still got swept.

If Lebron were still playing with a Prime Wade, Bosh and Allen he might have a point but instead he tries to talk up players like Smith, Korver and Love. If Kobe were stuck playing with these guys he'd be demanding another trade like in 07.


I stopped reading here. Your hating is ridiculous at this point and not worth anyone's time. Kobe met Tim Duncan and the Spurs once in the playoffs post-Shaq and won that matchup (Kobe missed the matchup in 2013 due a career ending injury)
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trablos
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Death, taxes, and george w kush in massive quote trees slandering Kobe

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trablos
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
george kush will always take an opportunity to dig at kobe. best to not waste time there.


Anyway, people asking "how come Kobe didn't figure it out 2005-2007!?"

Are missing the point entirely, particularly as Kobe referenced getting to the Finals. Thus you got to the Finals, you figure it out when you fail.

Did Kobe ever get to the Finals with Smush?

Anyway, when you judge what Kobe is saying, you look at the 2007 Finals.

You look at the team that failed there, and you watch and listen to what Kobe said, at that time about changing his leadership strategy, and taking the time to getting the guys to that level, his teammates, with how he worked with them in practice to otherwise, and pushing them to that level.

Kobe's mentality was that they had enough to make it to the Finals but didn't win, so what could he do as a leader to get those guys across the jump and over the top, as players and with that mentality.

That is precisely what he dedicated that season to, and it worked, they got back to the Finals and they didn't fail. Then they came back the next year and beat the same Celtics team. And that Celtics team steamrolled the Heat, and the Cavs and the Magic(last years Finals team) in 6 games.


We got that series despite Bynum still being injured. And we didn't use that as an excuse.


Anyway, you look at how Kobe's leadership evolved after that 07 loss and what he went about and how he empowered his teammates and how that lead to the successes the next 2 seasons after that and not being afraid to take all the blame on himself and use that responsibility to push himself, and his teammates.

This is what Kobe references. As LeBron doesn't do that, LeBron is more focused on controlling the narrative, ducking out of blame's way, and letting the media come down on his teammates instead, which is why Kyrie is no longer there and why Love very likely wants out. This is the same man that pushed for the FO to re-sign JR Smith and Tristan Thompson to their huge contracts, and then cried about the salary being taken up by the team that had spent the most money in the NBA for him. Then he just needed an extra ball handler, a shooter and some bench depth. He wound up getting George Hill, Kyle Korver, Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance Jr and Jeff Green. That's about as best as it gets. They did everything he asked and went above and beyond to put the pieces around him he asked for, yet he still wants to duck and dodge any kind of blame and is fine with the media protecting him. He even feeds into it himself with his narrative controlling. that's what he needs.

Whereas Kobe took the loss as needing to improve as a leader and going about how he could do that while helping his teammates get to the level they needed to get to. That was the crux behind his and Phil Jackson's previous "doing too much" conversation.

So some have either missed the point, or are moving the goalposts to try to make a point that isn't even there to be made.

The context is so clear when you read the article, and somehow everyone is getting lost and missing the point. Kobe mentions his conversation with MJ, and how he was upset his teammates weren't doing their part, and MJ basically told him it is what it is, you gotta figure it out, THEN that's when he took his leadership to another level and started working with Pau, Ariza, etc. on improving their games. Phil gave the same advice. So he is basically telling the world that no matter how good your excuses look, you just gotta figure it out. That is the mamba mentality.

From the article:

Quote:
Bryant: Michael gave me some really good advice after the '08 Finals: 'You got all the tools. You gotta figure out how to get these guys to that next level to win that championship.' Going into the 2010 series, I said, 'Listen, Boston, they got Ray Allen, they got Paul Pierce, they got [Kevin] Garnett, they got Sheed [Wallace], the talent is there. They're stacked.' That was the first superteam. [Michael] kind of heard me lament about it, and he just goes, 'Yeah, well, it is what it is; you gotta figure it out. There's no other alternative.' And that's the challenge LeBron has. You have pieces that you have to try to figure out how to work with. Excuses don't work right now. …

It has everything to do with how you build the team, from an emotional level. How do you motivate them? … Leadership is not making guys better by just throwing them the ball. That's not what it is. It's about the influence that you have on them to reach their full potential. And some of it's not pretty. Some of it's challenging, some of it's confrontational. Some of it's pat on the back. But it's finding that balance, so now when you show up to play a Golden State or a Boston, your guys feel like you have the confidence to take on more.

The second paragraph rings especially true and is rarely discussed.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2780523-kobe-bryant-nba-greats-get-lathered-about-lebrons-legacy
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Kush, you’re done in this thread until further notice.
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trablos
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
splashmtn wrote:

he got it done why? because once he got to the finals and got smacked around. he knew he had enough talent. he just needed to coach his guys up.



Here's the difference between Kobe and Lebron's experience. As you admitted, Kobe felt he had enough talent to beat the Celtics, which he did. We ALL KNOW Lebron did not have enough talent to defeat the Warriors. There is no amount of 'coaching up' he can provide to Love/JR Smith/George Hill/ and is suddenly going to make them as good as Durant/Curry/Thompson. Simple as that..

Furthermore the following year he got swept out of the playoffs by the Mavericks with essentially the same roster. Why didn't he 'figure it out' then?

Here's what Phil Jackson said after they were swept by the Maverics:

Quote:
"This team just had an ability to get in a funk and not be able to heal and surge, to find that common thread to come back and turn things around," Jackson said Wednesday in his final address to the media as coach of the Lakers. "And I never really had a team like that, that couldn't make adjustments and learn from mistakes."


Funny how Kobe couldn't 'figure it out' in this situation, even though they essentially had the same roster as the year before when they won a championship, and finished with the same regular season record as the year before.

Yeah and that's what you're failing to realize in your crusade...Kobe will fully take the blame for those playoff loses since he holds himself to the highest standard. There is no contradiction, he (and our team) simply failed that year. In fact if you listen to interviews in his younger years, it's always been championship or bust. Doesn't matter if you miss the playoffs or lose in game 7 of the finals, you failed, and that's his mentality.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
george w kush wrote:
splashmtn wrote:

he got it done why? because once he got to the finals and got smacked around. he knew he had enough talent. he just needed to coach his guys up.



Here's the difference between Kobe and Lebron's experience. As you admitted, Kobe felt he had enough talent to beat the Celtics, which he did. We ALL KNOW Lebron did not have enough talent to defeat the Warriors. There is no amount of 'coaching up' he can provide to Love/JR Smith/George Hill/ and is suddenly going to make them as good as Durant/Curry/Thompson. Simple as that..

Furthermore the following year he got swept out of the playoffs by the Mavericks with essentially the same roster. Why didn't he 'figure it out' then?

Here's what Phil Jackson said after they were swept by the Maverics:

Quote:
"This team just had an ability to get in a funk and not be able to heal and surge, to find that common thread to come back and turn things around," Jackson said Wednesday in his final address to the media as coach of the Lakers. "And I never really had a team like that, that couldn't make adjustments and learn from mistakes."


Funny how Kobe couldn't 'figure it out' in this situation, even though they essentially had the same roster as the year before when they won a championship, and finished with the same regular season record as the year before.

Yeah and that's what you're failing to realize in your crusade...Kobe will fully take the blame for those playoff loses since he holds himself to the highest standard. There is no contradiction, he (and our team) simply failed that year. In fact if you listen to interviews in his younger years, it's always been championship or bust. Doesn't matter if you miss the playoffs or lose in game 7 of the finals, you failed, and that's his mentality.


I think the thing is that no one is disagreeing that Kobe takes the blame for the losses.

It’s whether he is right that he is to blame for the losses. I think he’s got it wrong there even if trying to take the blame is what a leader does.

I can think of many seasons where Kobe did everything right imo, and we lost anyway.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
thats cool. now do a Lebron without Wade&Kyrie


Exactly. How many 50 win teams did Bron beat without his super teams that included prime Wade, Bosh, Love, and Kyrie?


FUN FACT: In the 2001 & 2002 Western Conference playoffs (Rounds 1-3) Kobe Bryant averaged more points per game than Shaq did.

Kobe 2001 & 2002 WC Playoffs: 31.6 PPG & 26.6 PPG

Shaq 2001 & 2002 WC Playoffs: 29.3 PPG & 26.4 PPG


Yet somehow the Kobe haters want to give him 0 credit for those years. Unbelievable
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject:

Can we all just ditch the use of haters and jockers and stans? That’s just looking for a response from someone and not necessary.
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lakurluv
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:32 am    Post subject:

Kobe shouldn't buy it, nobody should... With all the expectations and accolades placed on LBJ, there should never be an excuse for what happens in his career.
IMO if he made it to the NBA Finals, THE NBA FINALS with that Squad! If they were good enough to make it there, they were good enough to compete there, plain and simple...
What would they have said if they would have beat GSW?
LBJ: "My Teammates, were there, I couldn't have done it without them".
Cmon people give it a rest...

When you're at the level of Professional Sports/Athletics and you're getting paid millions of dollars to perform, there is NO EXCUSE that you can ever make. If you miss a free-throw, or don't defend, or rebound, or play hard. It's simply because you don't want to, you're being lazy, and entitled; you're not earning the money you make, you're dishonoring your own craft.

Never the less, LBJ is a great player, one of the greatest... AND NO I don't put him over KB24, sorry, I just can't and won't ever! I heard a commentator say, "How many rings would LeBron Have had he played with Shaq?" and the other person said, "A Ton", but they're forgetting, he did play with Shaq and they got nothing... Not only that, if LBJ would have played with Shaq in his Prime, I guarantee his numbers wouldn't be what they are today and he would probably only have 1, maybe 2 more rings; not to mention Shaq would have left town a lot sooner than he did with Kobe. In retrospect if you put KB24 on those Cavs Teams in the Eastern Conference and knowing the type of "Scorer" that he was, Coming in starting, not slowly being added to the rotation like he was with the Lakers, what would Kobe's stats be, how many NBA Finals would he had made it too? (If we're going to compare apples to oranges, let's compare all the way...LOL) LBJ Definitely top 5 though hands down no doubt.

His Cavs team, simply lost to a better team in GSW, just like the Celtics lost to a better more experienced team in the Cavs in the Conference Finals.
No excuses... These guys are pros, not high school players.
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ingle
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:43 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Kush, you’re done in this thread until further notice.


Bravo, although I'd say this site in general would be better off without him since his only contribution seems to be slandering Kobe, he ain't a Laker fan period.

Plenty of other places on the internet that encourages his sort.
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