Official MAGINKA Front Office Thread (Magic: "I built this team based on playoffs", p. 27)
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petergr
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Definitely doesn't sound like KL is in the works now. I'm happy about that. I've said from day one that the Lakers should roll with their young core.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject:

petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."



When I first read that, I thought that Pelinka was nuts. But on reflection, I understand what he is saying. He isn’t saying that Lebron plus Rondo, Casey P., Stephenson, and McGee are going to take down the Warriors. He is saying that he wants to bolster the defensive spine and toughness of our existing team, rather than loading up on offense and trying to play the Warriors’ style. I am not sold on that particular group of players, but I think Pelinka and Magic have the right idea.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."



When I first read that, I thought that Pelinka was nuts. But on reflection, I understand what he is saying. He isn’t saying that Lebron plus Rondo, Casey P., Stephenson, and McGee are going to take down the Warriors. He is saying that he wants to bolster the defensive spine and toughness of our existing team, rather than loading up on offense and trying to play the Warriors’ style. I am not sold on that particular group of players, but I think Pelinka and Magic have the right idea.


I agree and don't think its nuts at all. There is no way you can beat the warriors at their own game, you just can't assemble that kind of shooting talent because they have it all!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo'sBalls wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."



When I first read that, I thought that Pelinka was nuts. But on reflection, I understand what he is saying. He isn’t saying that Lebron plus Rondo, Casey P., Stephenson, and McGee are going to take down the Warriors. He is saying that he wants to bolster the defensive spine and toughness of our existing team, rather than loading up on offense and trying to play the Warriors’ style. I am not sold on that particular group of players, but I think Pelinka and Magic have the right idea.


I agree and don't think its nuts at all. There is no way you can beat the warriors at their own game, you just can't assemble that kind of shooting talent because they have it all!


I feel like you can. Houston was close.

But I think the formula is 2 superstars + 3 and D + Interior Defender.

You're not beating that team without 2 superstars and a top defense.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject:

petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."



I think Magic Johnson is making a mistake in remembering how the Pistons took down his own Showtime Lakers, and from that extrapolates how the Lakers now can build a defense-first team to similarly take down the Warriors.

It won't work.

1. The rules about defensive contact have radically changed since 1989, such that a team radically slanted towards defense - one coupled with poor perimeter shooting - can't win the title today. Can't.

2. The error in his plan is found in a second poor interpretation of history and its transference of lessons to today. He's forgotten that the Lakers were incredibly reduced as an offensive power in Kareem's old age, such that a top defensive club could break down the Lakers. The Warriors' starters are in their prime, save for Iggy who is 34. The Lakers never won the trophy after '88 because Kareem got old and retired - first and foremost. Nothing like that has happened to the Warriors, and in facts, they're probably as strong today as in any of the four past seasons.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject:

KB8SD wrote:
https://dai.ly/x6o8cfo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject:

Any plan to beat the Warriors is very unlikely to work. They're an all-time great team. But it's worth a shot. And it's not like they just said the hell with shooting. As Rob pointed out, they have a number of good shooters.
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trablos
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."



I think Magic Johnson is making a mistake in remembering how the Pistons took down his own Showtime Lakers, and from that extrapolates how the Lakers now can build a defense-first team to similarly take down the Warriors.

It won't work.

1. The rules about defensive contact have radically changed since 1989, such that a team radically slanted towards defense - one coupled with poor perimeter shooting - can't win the title today. Can't.

2. The error in his plan is found in a second poor interpretation of history and its transference of lessons to today. He's forgotten that the Lakers were incredibly reduced as an offensive power in Kareem's old age, such that a top defensive club could break down the Lakers. The Warriors' starters are in their prime, save for Iggy who is 34. The Lakers never won the trophy after '88 because Kareem got old and retired - first and foremost. Nothing like that has happened to the Warriors, and in facts, they're probably as strong today as in any of the four past seasons.

You just built an argument on a notion that doesn't exist. Ironic considering your username
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24Legend007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject:

The Alchemist is my favorite book as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."



When I first read that, I thought that Pelinka was nuts. But on reflection, I understand what he is saying. He isn’t saying that Lebron plus Rondo, Casey P., Stephenson, and McGee are going to take down the Warriors. He is saying that he wants to bolster the defensive spine and toughness of our existing team, rather than loading up on offense and trying to play the Warriors’ style. I am not sold on that particular group of players, but I think Pelinka and Magic have the right idea.

It's actually not a bad idea. You get some tough defenders who are playoff proven in here on 1 years to really really push the young guys hard - and then push them even harder. They get to see which of the young guys can grow into roles and which ones have the stones for that kind of game. They'll make the playoffs this year, and the young guys learn from that too.
Next year, they have all those ending contracts and they know which young guys they want to keep. Then they sign Kawhi or some other top free agent, assemble a WCF finals team.
It seems like a fairly workable plan.
I suspect that a lot of guys will have their feet held to the fire this year - prove it or lose it
Lonzo, Zu, Kuzma (especially his D) immediately spring to mind
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Jerry West: "All due respect to the Lakers, who handled everything well, but, as these things go, LeBron was not a tough free-agent signing. LeBron wanted to come to L.A. and he wanted to come to the Lakers. Period. He has a family he's thinking about. He has a home here."

The Logo still bitter that Maginka didn't want him to come back to the Lakers to take the credit for bringing back the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
Jerry West: "All due respect to the Lakers, who handled everything well, but, as these things go, LeBron was not a tough free-agent signing. LeBron wanted to come to L.A. and he wanted to come to the Lakers. Period. He has a family he's thinking about. He has a home here."

The Logo still bitter that Maginka didn't want him to come back to the Lakers to take the credit for bringing back the Lakers.


Arn't the clippers in LA? Don't the Clippers have the same advantages in terms of Lebron's home preferences and family considerations?

Its not like West is the GM of memphis anymore lol
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
The Alchemist is my favorite book as well.


I'm more of a THE ALCHEMY OF THE HEAVENS kind of guy

http://kencroswell.com/alchemyexcerpt.html
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
Jerry West: "All due respect to the Lakers, who handled everything well, but, as these things go, LeBron was not a tough free-agent signing. LeBron wanted to come to L.A. and he wanted to come to the Lakers. Period. He has a family he's thinking about. He has a home here."

The Logo still bitter that Maginka didn't want him to come back to the Lakers to take the credit for bringing back the Lakers.


Arn't the clippers in LA? Don't the Clippers have the same advantages in terms of Lebron's home preferences and family considerations?

Its not like West is the GM of memphis anymore lol


The Logo is salty Jeanie and Magic didn't want him back.
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24Legend007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
The Alchemist is my favorite book as well.


I'm more of a THE ALCHEMY OF THE HEAVENS kind of guy

http://kencroswell.com/alchemyexcerpt.html


Looks interesting, I'll have to check it out.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject:

petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."




So you sign a guy that doesn't play defense and has lost to them 3 out of 4 times.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
petergr wrote:
Pelinka: Lakers designed to combat Warriors
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24070278/los-angeles-lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-built-team-differently-lebron-james

"If your goal is to win a championship, you've got to look at the way the champs are assembled and how you can give yourself the best chance to take them down," Pelinka said. "It is certainly part of the equation. ... Earvin [Johnson] and I had a conversation and LeBron echoed this sentiment -- I think to try to play the Warriors at their own game is a trap. No one is going to beat them at their own game, so that is why we wanted to add these elements of defense and toughness and depth and try to look at areas where we will have an advantage."




So you sign a guy that doesn't play defense and has lost to them 3 out of 4 times.

So signing LeBron has hurt their chances of beating the Warriors?

Who should they have signed instead then? Go ahead.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject:

One thing that should work to their favor against GS is their identity as a defense first team that plays at a breakneck pace. Golden State’s biggest flaw is that they don’t take care of the ball. Take advantage of their live ball turnovers by striking in transition every time. Every single time. I almost get the sense that they want to play even faster next season. That could be a big reason why they elected to part ways with Brook and are rolling with McGee instead. Based off of that recent McGee interview, it sounds like they’ve already given him the goal of being the fastest 7 footer in the league next year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
Jerry West: "All due respect to the Lakers, who handled everything well, but, as these things go, LeBron was not a tough free-agent signing. LeBron wanted to come to L.A. and he wanted to come to the Lakers. Period. He has a family he's thinking about. He has a home here."

The Logo still bitter that Maginka didn't want him to come back to the Lakers to take the credit for bringing back the Lakers.


Arn't the clippers in LA? Don't the Clippers have the same advantages in terms of Lebron's home preferences and family considerations?

Its not like West is the GM of memphis anymore lol


What's really funny is that with Jordan opting out, the Clippers could have signed Lebron and, so long as they didn't give Lou that multi-year deal, would have had a max slot just like us next year. In fact, as things stand now, they'll have $56m in cap space next summer. The big difference is that while the Clippers would still have $22m committed to Galo, the Lakers have that money committed to multiple players - Ingram, Ball, Kuz, Hart and Mo. Lebron looked at both rosters, among other variables, and said the Lakers have the advantage. That's not just luck.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
The Alchemist is my favorite book as well.


I'm more of a THE ALCHEMY OF THE HEAVENS kind of guy

http://kencroswell.com/alchemyexcerpt.html


Looks interesting, I'll have to check it out.


All Ken's books are good...(I've read The Life of Stars, Magnificent Universe and Alchemy)

http://kencroswell.com/index.html

I enjoy him as much a I enjoy reading KipThorne

I just pulled out my copy of Magnificent Universe...I forgot how beautiful this book is...full of large photos with an explanation of what you are seeing


Last edited by VicXLakers on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
You could make the case that Magic has been on one hell of a hot streak.

2017

Trade Deadline: moved Lou for Brewer/1st (#28). Modest deal that Mitch had lined up. But Magic pulled the trigger and it ended up helping the tank and netting Kuzma (practically speaking) - Win

Draft Lottery: Landed the 2nd pick, defering their obligation to Philly for another year and converting the first round pick owed to Orlando (Dwight Deal) to a 2nd round pick - Win

Pre-Draft: Traded Mozgov/Russell for Lopez/#27. At the time a tough deal to swallow, but led to additional flexibility and Josh Hart - Win

Draft: Selected Ball, Kuzma, Hart and Bryant - Win

Free Agency: Got KCP on an exagerated one year deal which also helped LA build a relationship with Klutch sports - Win

2018
Trade Deadline: Moved Jordan and Nance for Thomas, Frye and a 1st round pick. Also openned up more 2018 cap room - Win

Draft Lottery: Pick was to be conveyed to Philly or Boston, the latter if the pick moved up. Giving such an asset to the Celtics would have been painful to Laker fans. The pick stayed at 10 - Win

Draft: Selected Wagner and Svi at 25 and 47 respectively. Traded for pick 39 and took Isaac Bonga. It's early, but it looks good - Win

Free Agency: Signed LeBron James, KCP, Lance and McGee. Lost Lopez, Randle and Thomas. Still have $5.5M cap room, a line on additional moves and preserved max space for next year - Win

They took some loses along the way. They got dinged for tampering with George and the relationship with Mintz is probably as bad as it gets. But adding things up they've been on one hell of a run.


Great post, concur.

My only complaint is I prefer "Maglinka" to "Maginka" but other than that it is all good.

Magic and Robe pulling a franchise 180 when it looked hopeless and in a very short period of time.

Meanwhile Mitch has signed Tim Mozgov, Tony Parker, Kyle Anderson
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
I think Magic Johnson is making a mistake in remembering how the Pistons took down his own Showtime Lakers, and from that extrapolates how the Lakers now can build a defense-first team to similarly take down the Warriors.

It won't work.

1. The rules about defensive contact have radically changed since 1989, such that a team radically slanted towards defense - one coupled with poor perimeter shooting - can't win the title today. Can't.

2. The error in his plan is found in a second poor interpretation of history and its transference of lessons to today. He's forgotten that the Lakers were incredibly reduced as an offensive power in Kareem's old age, such that a top defensive club could break down the Lakers. The Warriors' starters are in their prime, save for Iggy who is 34. The Lakers never won the trophy after '88 because Kareem got old and retired - first and foremost. Nothing like that has happened to the Warriors, and in facts, they're probably as strong today as in any of the four past seasons.


You may be right, or you may be reading to much into what has been said. I don't get the impression that we're trying to reincarnate the Bad Boy Pistons. I think the FO envisions a team with guys like Ingram, Ball, and Kuzma growing into shooters, but with nasty old vets like Rondo and Stephenson to bring some defensive intensity and grit.

I'm not sold on this particular group of nasty old vets, but I think the vision is a good one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject:

No one even mentions the improvements that Ingram made as a rookie after Magic critiqued his game. He was looking like a bust until that point.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
70sdude wrote:
I think Magic Johnson is making a mistake in remembering how the Pistons took down his own Showtime Lakers, and from that extrapolates how the Lakers now can build a defense-first team to similarly take down the Warriors.

It won't work.

1. The rules about defensive contact have radically changed since 1989, such that a team radically slanted towards defense - one coupled with poor perimeter shooting - can't win the title today. Can't.

2. The error in his plan is found in a second poor interpretation of history and its transference of lessons to today. He's forgotten that the Lakers were incredibly reduced as an offensive power in Kareem's old age, such that a top defensive club could break down the Lakers. The Warriors' starters are in their prime, save for Iggy who is 34. The Lakers never won the trophy after '88 because Kareem got old and retired - first and foremost. Nothing like that has happened to the Warriors, and in facts, they're probably as strong today as in any of the four past seasons.


You may be right, or you may be reading to much into what has been said. I don't get the impression that we're trying to reincarnate the Bad Boy Pistons. I think the FO envisions a team with guys like Ingram, Ball, and Kuzma growing into shooters, but with nasty old vets like Rondo and Stephenson to bring some defensive intensity and grit.

I'm not sold on this particular group of nasty old vets, but I think the vision is a good one.

Absolutely, I like the out of the box thinking. GS simply has too much firepower, it's like trying to out-box Mayweather- it's a losing scenario. Best you could hope for us to rough them up and keep them on their toes by capitalizing on all their mistakes, and making very little of them. The sample size isn't very big, but the teams that have given GS a real fight (Rox and OKC pre durant) played great defense and took advantage of their tiny margin for error. Defense and good IQ players are exactly what our focus should be, at least until we get another max all star hopefully.
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