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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
I’m listening but there aren’t points being made beyond quotes from people with inherently biased opinions. The ignorant side is opposite of me. |
Prove that their opinions are biased. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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OC Lakerfan wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
Exactly. Just another person who I don't take their takes seriously anymore. |
Every argument dude loses he finishes it off with the typical "I'm smarter then you guys, you guys are sensitive and offended by fAcTs".
But no one believes that but him, and quite frankly he's not as smart as he thinks he is. Which is why he gets proven wrong time and time again.
We just gotta stop taking him seriously. _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe
Last edited by Villain6Activated on Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.
The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws. |
b0x ThCoRes |
You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.
All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well. |
Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
I’m listening but there aren’t points being made beyond quotes from people with inherently biased opinions. The ignorant side is opposite of me. |
Prove that their opinions are biased. |
They’re paid by Ingram’s team or by a company that relys on the Lakers popularity. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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1ngr4m wrote: | OC Lakerfan wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
Exactly. Just another person who I don't take their takes seriously anymore. |
Every argument dude loses he finishes it off with the typical "I'm smarter then you guys, you guys are sensitive and offended by fAcTs".
But no one believes that but him, and quite frankly he's not as smart as he thinks he is. Which is why he gets proven wrong time and time again.
We just gotta stop taking him seriously. |
Instead of claiming I’ve been proven wrong why don’t you do it instead of gossiping about it. |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3914
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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OC Lakerfan wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
Exactly. Just another person who I don't take their takes seriously anymore. |
+1 Glad that this is the topic of discussion though and not us worrying what BI will perform like in another uni. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | 1ngr4m wrote: | OC Lakerfan wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
Exactly. Just another person who I don't take their takes seriously anymore. |
Every argument dude loses he finishes it off with the typical "I'm smarter then you guys, you guys are sensitive and offended by fAcTs".
But no one believes that but him, and quite frankly he's not as smart as he thinks he is. Which is why he gets proven wrong time and time again.
We just gotta stop taking him seriously. |
Instead of claiming I’ve been proven wrong why don’t you do it instead of gossiping about it. |
Done it once before, rather argue against a brick wall at this point. You don't have the ability to admit when you're wrong and love to finish every argument calling the other people delusional/stupid/bias etc. _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3914
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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1ngr4m wrote: | OC Lakerfan wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
Exactly. Just another person who I don't take their takes seriously anymore. |
Every argument dude loses he finishes it off with the typical "I'm smarter then you guys, you guys are sensitive and offended by fAcTs".
But no one believes that but him, and quite frankly he's not as smart as he thinks he is. Which is why he gets proven wrong time and time again.
We just gotta stop taking him seriously. |
VLF burner account? _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
I’m listening but there aren’t points being made beyond quotes from people with inherently biased opinions. The ignorant side is opposite of me. |
Prove that their opinions are biased. |
They’re paid by Ingram’s team or by a company that relys on the Lakers popularity. |
That is not proof. That is motive.
I asked for proof. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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CervantesRises wrote: | OC Lakerfan wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
Exactly. Just another person who I don't take their takes seriously anymore. |
+1 Glad that this is the topic of discussion though and not us worrying what BI will perform like in another uni. |
Funny cause the guy we're all arguing against has had some of the hottest Brandon Ingram trade takes in the past couple of months.
Brandon is still here though _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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1ngr4m wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | 1ngr4m wrote: | OC Lakerfan wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
Exactly. Just another person who I don't take their takes seriously anymore. |
Every argument dude loses he finishes it off with the typical "I'm smarter then you guys, you guys are sensitive and offended by fAcTs".
But no one believes that but him, and quite frankly he's not as smart as he thinks he is. Which is why he gets proven wrong time and time again.
We just gotta stop taking him seriously. |
Instead of claiming I’ve been proven wrong why don’t you do it instead of gossiping about it. |
Done it once before, rather argue against a brick wall at this point. You don't have the ability to admit when you're wrong and love to finish every argument calling the other people delusional/stupid/bias etc. |
Must be cause a brick wall doesn’t disprove your opinion. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.
The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws. |
b0x ThCoRes |
You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.
All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well. |
Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point. |
Ingram played less minutes and put up less than one more shot extra than Tayshaun 12.9 to 12.2... and he averaged 16 to Prince's 14 points.
And he's three to four years younger when he's doing this. It doesn't take a visionary to see that he will get more open looks with LBJ/Rondo/Ball feeding him next season. Just like Tayshaun had Chauncey instead of Ennis, Clarkson and Caruso feeding him for good portions of the season.
Last edited by Sentient Meat on Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Judah wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
I love it when people do this. Say something that's totally ridiculous about a player, get pushback, then act like the reason for the pushback is because people are just offended that you dissed their supposed favorite player
That shows you literally aren't listening to why people are objecting. |
I’m listening but there aren’t points being made beyond quotes from people with inherently biased opinions. The ignorant side is opposite of me. |
Prove that their opinions are biased. |
They’re paid by Ingram’s team or by a company that relys on the Lakers popularity. |
That is not proof. That is motive.
I asked for proof. |
In a court of law proving motive is a piece of evidence especially when other evidence is unavailable. Considering I don’t know any Lakers reporters personally, that’s the case. |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.
The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws. |
b0x ThCoRes |
You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.
All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well. |
Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point. |
Ingram played less minutes and put up less than one more shot extra than Tayshaun 12.9 to 12.2... and he averaged 16 to Prince's 14 points.
And he's three to four years younger when he's doing this. It doesn't take a visionary to see that he will get more open looks with LBJ/Rondo/Ball feeding him next season. Just like Tayshaun had Chauncey instead of Ennis, Clarkson and Caruso feeding him for good portions of the season. |
Hit em' up Meat!
Last edited by Luminous8 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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socalsp3 Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Posts: 3501
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | socalsp3 wrote: | Prince was a great defender that's it. Not a shooter not a play maker. I don't think even a garbage team would give the ball to Prince and tell him to go make a play. |
Point guards made plays in those days. |
so 3's never made any plays eh? |
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Andre2K Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 12199
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | socalsp3 wrote: | Prince was a great defender that's it. Not a shooter not a play maker. I don't think even a garbage team would give the ball to Prince and tell him to go make a play. |
Point guards made plays in those days. |
Oh snap, here I was thinking Kobe and Tracy McGrady were shooting guards, Scottie Pippen and Lamar Odom were small forwards, Garnett and CWebbb were power forwards, Brad Miller was a center didn’t know they were point guards all along, since they made plays for their team, and only point guards made plays in those days they had me fooled _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon
Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc |
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Andre2K Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 12199
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.
The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws. |
b0x ThCoRes |
You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.
All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well. |
Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point. |
What point is that? Prince didn’t enter the league until the age of 22, Ingram is going on his 3rd at age 20 _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon
Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc |
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FreakofNature Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 9187 Location: Maui ...
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Andre2K wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | socalsp3 wrote: | Prince was a great defender that's it. Not a shooter not a play maker. I don't think even a garbage team would give the ball to Prince and tell him to go make a play. |
Point guards made plays in those days. |
Oh snap, here I was thinking Kobe and Tracy McGrady were shooting guards, Scottie Pippen and Lamar Odom were small forwards, Garnett and CWebbb were power forwards, Brad Miller was a center didn’t know they were point guards all along, since they made plays for their team, and only point guards made plays in those days they had me fooled |
Ouch and double ouch on VLF..... |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe I didnt watch him enough or its been so long I dont remember Prince but I would take 2018-2019 BI over him any day of the week. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Andre2K wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.
The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws. |
b0x ThCoRes |
You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.
All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well. |
Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point. |
What point is that? Prince didn’t enter the league until the age of 22, Ingram is going on his 3rd at age 20 |
Princes prime vs BI now. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29152 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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socalsp3 wrote: | Prince was a great defender that's it. Not a shooter not a play maker. I don't think even a garbage team would give the ball to Prince and tell him to go make a play. |
I'm not ready to say Ingram is an above average starter on a championship team. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Andre2K wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.
The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws. |
b0x ThCoRes |
You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.
All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well. |
Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point. |
What point is that? Prince didn’t enter the league until the age of 22, Ingram is going on his 3rd at age 20 |
Princes prime vs BI now. | you are basing "now" on last season though. The likelihood is that Ingram in year 3 will be significantly improved over what we saw from him last year. And offensively, he surpassed prime Prince in year 2. |
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mookielala Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Posts: 3026
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Man, I really riled up the Ingram bunch with this one. Sorry I interrupted, I’ll let you tell each other he’s the next Durant some more. |
Go away, man. |
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FreakofNature Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 9187 Location: Maui ...
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | socalsp3 wrote: | Prince was a great defender that's it. Not a shooter not a play maker. I don't think even a garbage team would give the ball to Prince and tell him to go make a play. |
I'm not ready to say Ingram is an above average starter on a championship team. |
I believe with the natural progress we "should" see this season I believe BI will be an above average starter on the 18'/19' Lakers championship team....
He should be at 18ppg, with 5 boards and 4 dimes. and a pretty big jump on defense and overall intangibles, at his age it is almost a given, nothing guaranteed of course, but I would bet on it if i was a betting man...
I think a couple seasons from now he will be an all-star.... |
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