What? Worthy was much quicker, faster and explosive. Worthy was great in the low post and running the break. BI is a better ball handler and outside shooter. BI had a similar low post turn around jumper. Defensively BI has a chance to be better and more versatile.
I see BI as a more all around guy who can play the 1-4 while Worthy was strictly a 3/4. Worthy low post game and running the break were as good as anyone.
I said Ingram had more "get up" meaning hops.. None of those other things, which are debatable. I'm well acquainted with Worthy's game, he had the prettiest game on the block that I've seen. Not saying he was the best ever in the low post, but his moves were a thing of beauty. But yea, all I'm saying is Ingram has more hops, nothing more. Also Worthy wasn't all that fast, nor would I characterize him as explosive.
Gotta disagree about Worthy's speed Dev. I ways thought James had elite SG level end to end speed. That guy could seriously get out on a break.
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject:
Luminous8 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
oldlakerfan wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
Neither is Brandon.
Yea, but he has more get up than Worthy.
What? Worthy was much quicker, faster and explosive. Worthy was great in the low post and running the break. BI is a better ball handler and outside shooter. BI had a similar low post turn around jumper. Defensively BI has a chance to be better and more versatile.
I see BI as a more all around guy who can play the 1-4 while Worthy was strictly a 3/4. Worthy low post game and running the break were as good as anyone.
I said Ingram had more "get up" meaning hops.. None of those other things, which are debatable. I'm well acquainted with Worthy's game, he had the prettiest game on the block that I've seen. Not saying he was the best ever in the low post, but his moves were a thing of beauty. But yea, all I'm saying is Ingram has more hops, nothing more. Also Worthy wasn't all that fast, nor would I characterize him as explosive.
Gotta disagree about Worthy's speed Dev. I ways thought James had elite SG level end to end speed. That guy could seriously get out on a break.
For a guy that's 6'9 I think he had good speed.. but not the kind where you're thinking "man he's fast"..
In today's game I think you're looking at superior athletes. Guys are bigger, faster and stronger. Not as skilled, but superior athletically.
I admit im not the biggest lebron fan. But im worried about the youth around him. I can't remember any young player thriving with lebron. If anything a lot of players decline with him because hes so ball dominant. and ingram playing similar position as lebron, not too optimistic
Kyrie? On the ball dominant thing, Wade too.
Kyrie definitely thrived because he didn't have as much pressure on him, but he also didn't want to play with Lebron after a while. Hoping that doesn't happen with our younguns as well.
there's always room for a #2 to thrive. No matter how ball dominate someone is they dont have the energy to try to control every offensive possession.
I do have concerns on how much chemistry BI and LBJ can have on the floor together where if they can do more than just taking turns on who is going to attack _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:53 pm Post subject:
Luminous8 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Also Worthy wasn't all that fast, nor would I characterize him as explosive.
Gotta disagree about Worthy's speed Dev. I ways thought James had elite SG level end to end speed. That guy could seriously get out on a break.
Agreed, Luminous8. Worthy's top speed on a fast break and his first step from the triple threat position were elite. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
This kind of proves my point.. Worthy was no high flyer. Which is fine, he didn't need to be.
Yea, he's more of a mid flyer.
But man, speaking of Big Game James. If BI can become Expandin' Brandon and come up big in big games, that would be nice.
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
pokoy wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Vino24 wrote:
I admit im not the biggest lebron fan. But im worried about the youth around him. I can't remember any young player thriving with lebron. If anything a lot of players decline with him because hes so ball dominant. and ingram playing similar position as lebron, not too optimistic
Kyrie? On the ball dominant thing, Wade too.
Kyrie definitely thrived because he didn't have as much pressure on him, but he also didn't want to play with Lebron after a while. Hoping that doesn't happen with our younguns as well.
there's always room for a #2 to thrive. No matter how ball dominate someone is they dont have the energy to try to control every offensive possession.
I do have concerns on how much chemistry BI and LBJ can have on the floor together where if they can do more than just taking turns on who is going to attack
I could be wrong but I was thinking they'd have great chemistry, Kuz included. Pic n roll, and pic n pop plays between those three will be difficult to manage given Bron's passing ability, and Ingram's improving passing ability. Bron has also become a much better spot up shooter, Ingram is a decent spot up shooter who's improving. I don't really see any issues.
I admit im not the biggest lebron fan. But im worried about the youth around him. I can't remember any young player thriving with lebron.If anything a lot of players decline with him because hes so ball dominant. and ingram playing similar position as lebron, not too optimistic
You have to think through that premise carefully. It's way too simplistic. He's never been on a team with as much young talent as the Lakers have. He's always been on contending teams for the most part. Lonzo, BI, Kuz, and Hart are all lottery level talents who will be playing significant minutes. The closest team he’s been on that you can compare to this one in that regard is the Cleveland team he went to in 2014. But the two groups are very different talent wise.
Irving was already a star, and as others have pointed out, you could definitely make the case that he did, in fact, get better because of playing with LeBron. But Thompson has improved as well, hasn't he? How much of that was related to LeBron is debatable, but it does poke a significant hole in your argument. Thompson and Waiters were drafted in the lottery, but I don't think it even needs to be said that this young core the Lakers have is far superior to the one Cleveland had at the time if you exclude Irving. But that's the point. He's never played on a team with this much young talent on one team. Your premise is kind of rigged. What young players thrived under Kobe? Think about that one deeply and be brutally honest about it. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
I admit im not the biggest lebron fan. But im worried about the youth around him. I can't remember any young player thriving with lebron. If anything a lot of players decline with him because hes so ball dominant. and ingram playing similar position as lebron, not too optimistic
Kyrie? On the ball dominant thing, Wade too.
Kyrie definitely thrived because he didn't have as much pressure on him, but he also didn't want to play with Lebron after a while. Hoping that doesn't happen with our younguns as well.
there's always room for a #2 to thrive. No matter how ball dominate someone is they dont have the energy to try to control every offensive possession.
I do have concerns on how much chemistry BI and LBJ can have on the floor together where if they can do more than just taking turns on who is going to attack
I could be wrong but I was thinking they'd have great chemistry, Kuz included. Pic n roll, and pic n pop plays between those three will be difficult to manage given Bron's passing ability, and Ingram's improving passing ability. Bron has also become a much better spot up shooter, Ingram is a decent spot up shooter who's improving. I don't really see any issues.
Yeah, I don't have any concerns about BI and LeBron together. They're both point forwards. They can both attack, but both of them are also willing ball movers. I actually think they could thrive together, especially if they have shooting on the floor with them. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
I admit im not the biggest lebron fan. But im worried about the youth around him. I can't remember any young player thriving with lebron.If anything a lot of players decline with him because hes so ball dominant. and ingram playing similar position as lebron, not too optimistic
You have to think through that premise carefully. It's way too simplistic. He's never been on a team with as much young talent as the Lakers have. He's always been on contending teams for the most part. Lonzo, BI, Kuz, and Hart are all lottery level talents who will be playing significant minutes. The closest team he’s been on that you can compare to this one in that regard is the Cleveland team he went to in 2014. But the two groups are very different talent wise.
Irving was already a star, and as others have pointed out, you could definitely make the case that he did, in fact, get better because of playing with LeBron. But Thompson has improved as well, hasn't he? How much of that was related to LeBron is debatable, but it does poke a significant hole in your argument. Thompson and Waiters were drafted in the lottery, but I don't think it even needs to be said that this young core the Lakers have is far superior to the one Cleveland had at the time if you exclude Irving. But that's the point. He's never played on a team with this much young talent on one team. Your premise is kind of rigged. What young players thrived under Kobe? Think about that one deeply and be brutally honest about it.
LeBron has never played with a group of youngsters as talented as the ones the Lakers now have. That is very true. However, the same goes for Kobe. He got JC, Randle, Dlo and Nance at the tail-end of his career, but obviously, Kobe wasn't Kobe anymore. I feel like Caron benefited from playing with Kobe, but he only played with Kobe for 1 season. Drew had really started to develop a nice chemistry with Kobe during his breakout season prior to his knee injury. Of course, the synergy was never the same between Kobe and Drew because Drew lost so much mobility with all his injuries. Ariza also played very well next to Kobe, and he has credited Kobe's shooting Bible with his improved shot. However, he only played 2 seasons with Kobe. Those 3 are the best young players that Kobe played with, and he got limited time with 2 of them (Caron and Trevor) and never got extended time with the best version of the other (Drew). If you look at the list of players he played with from 2004-05 (1st post-Shaq season) to 2012-13 (last healthy season), here are the guys he played with:
Brian Cook
Kareem Rush
Luke Walton
Ronny Turiaf
Sasha Vujacic
Von Wafer
Smush Parker
Jordan Farmar
Coby Karl
Shannon Brown
Adam Morrison
Josh Powell
Derek Caracter
Devin Ebanks
Andrew Goudelock
Jordan Hill
Darius Morris
Robert Sacre
It's fair to say that LeBron shouldn't be judged for not elevating the young talent around him, but the same argument applies to Kobe as well. Neither guy had much to work with in terms of young talent throughout their careers.
Last edited by RCS926 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
I admit im not the biggest lebron fan. But im worried about the youth around him. I can't remember any young player thriving with lebron. If anything a lot of players decline with him because hes so ball dominant. and ingram playing similar position as lebron, not too optimistic
Kyrie? On the ball dominant thing, Wade too.
Kyrie definitely thrived because he didn't have as much pressure on him, but he also didn't want to play with Lebron after a while. Hoping that doesn't happen with our younguns as well.
Well he’s turning 34 this year and I don’t expect him to stick around after his contract (I’m betting he either plays his final year in Cle or goes wherever Bronny does, assuming he’s good enough). If they don’t like playing with him, they won’t have to deal with it for all that long.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject:
SocalDevin wrote:
mookielala wrote:
epak wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Maybe somewhere in the middle, James Worthy wasn't a high flyer.
Yea. Definitely somewhere in between Shawn Kemp and Kendall Marshall. LOL.
Either way, that length just makes up for any hops he may not have. Woo wee!
He had some impressive hops in games before he got hurt. It looked like he was playing slightly injured a lot of last year, IMO.
@Mookielala Agreed, he had more speed as well before injured.
@Epak, I was thinking the same thing as well, his length does make up the difference, even though he gets up when he isn't injured.
BI has a 40" plus vertical, he has plenty of hops for a 6'10" guy. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
Maybe somewhere in the middle, James Worthy wasn't a high flyer.
Yea. Definitely somewhere in between Shawn Kemp and Kendall Marshall. LOL.
Either way, that length just makes up for any hops he may not have. Woo wee!
He had some impressive hops in games before he got hurt. It looked like he was playing slightly injured a lot of last year, IMO.
@Mookielala Agreed, he had more speed as well before injured.
@Epak, I was thinking the same thing as well, his length does make up the difference, even though he gets up when he isn't injured.
BI has a 40" plus vertical, he has plenty of hops for a 6'10" guy.
He definitely doesn't have a 40" vert. I'd guess that his vert is in the low 30s, which is fine considering how tall and long he is.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject:
RCS926 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
mookielala wrote:
epak wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Maybe somewhere in the middle, James Worthy wasn't a high flyer.
Yea. Definitely somewhere in between Shawn Kemp and Kendall Marshall. LOL.
Either way, that length just makes up for any hops he may not have. Woo wee!
He had some impressive hops in games before he got hurt. It looked like he was playing slightly injured a lot of last year, IMO.
@Mookielala Agreed, he had more speed as well before injured.
@Epak, I was thinking the same thing as well, his length does make up the difference, even though he gets up when he isn't injured.
BI has a 40" plus vertical, he has plenty of hops for a 6'10" guy.
He definitely doesn't have a 40" vert. I'd guess that his vert is in the low 30s, which is fine considering how tall and long he is.
Maybe somewhere in the middle, James Worthy wasn't a high flyer.
Yea. Definitely somewhere in between Shawn Kemp and Kendall Marshall. LOL.
Either way, that length just makes up for any hops he may not have. Woo wee!
He had some impressive hops in games before he got hurt. It looked like he was playing slightly injured a lot of last year, IMO.
@Mookielala Agreed, he had more speed as well before injured.
@Epak, I was thinking the same thing as well, his length does make up the difference, even though he gets up when he isn't injured.
BI has a 40" plus vertical, he has plenty of hops for a 6'10" guy.
He definitely doesn't have a 40" vert. I'd guess that his vert is in the low 30s, which is fine considering how tall and long he is.
Some research before you post would be good on your end. People always sleep on BI's athleticism.
I'm not sleeping on his athleticism. He has more than enough athleticism. I just didn't believe he had a 40" vert based on watching him play. I can't think of a time where I remember him impressing me with his explosiveness off the ground. Still, I stand corrected on his max vert. It looks like he's at least in the high 30s. The angle of those videos makes it hard to determine if Ingram's head really is at the rim. If it is, then he really does have a 40" vert or more.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:25 pm Post subject:
RCS926 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
mookielala wrote:
epak wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Maybe somewhere in the middle, James Worthy wasn't a high flyer.
Yea. Definitely somewhere in between Shawn Kemp and Kendall Marshall. LOL.
Either way, that length just makes up for any hops he may not have. Woo wee!
He had some impressive hops in games before he got hurt. It looked like he was playing slightly injured a lot of last year, IMO.
@Mookielala Agreed, he had more speed as well before injured.
@Epak, I was thinking the same thing as well, his length does make up the difference, even though he gets up when he isn't injured.
BI has a 40" plus vertical, he has plenty of hops for a 6'10" guy.
He definitely doesn't have a 40" vert. I'd guess that his vert is in the low 30s, which is fine considering how tall and long he is.
Some research before you post would be good on your end. People always sleep on BI's athleticism.
I'm not sleeping on his athleticism. He has more than enough athleticism. I just didn't believe he had a 40" vert based on watching him play. I can't think of a time where I remember him impressing me with his explosiveness off the ground. Still, I stand corrected on his max vert. It looks like he's at least in the high 30s. The angle of those videos makes it hard to determine if Ingram's head really is at the rim. If it is, then he really does have a 40" vert or more.
This one does the math, 44 inches. Pretty freaking amazing!
H/T SM
I have seen him throw down some pretty nasty dunks. The more strength he gets the more he will show off his hops in the NBA. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
Maybe somewhere in the middle, James Worthy wasn't a high flyer.
Yea. Definitely somewhere in between Shawn Kemp and Kendall Marshall. LOL.
Either way, that length just makes up for any hops he may not have. Woo wee!
He had some impressive hops in games before he got hurt. It looked like he was playing slightly injured a lot of last year, IMO.
@Mookielala Agreed, he had more speed as well before injured.
@Epak, I was thinking the same thing as well, his length does make up the difference, even though he gets up when he isn't injured.
BI has a 40" plus vertical, he has plenty of hops for a 6'10" guy.
He definitely doesn't have a 40" vert. I'd guess that his vert is in the low 30s, which is fine considering how tall and long he is.
Some research before you post would be good on your end. People always sleep on BI's athleticism.
I'm not sleeping on his athleticism. He has more than enough athleticism. I just didn't believe he had a 40" vert based on watching him play. I can't think of a time where I remember him impressing me with his explosiveness off the ground. Still, I stand corrected on his max vert. It looks like he's at least in the high 30s. The angle of those videos makes it hard to determine if Ingram's head really is at the rim. If it is, then he really does have a 40" vert or more.
This one does the math, 44 inches. Pretty freaking amazing!
H/T SM
I have seen him throw down some pretty nasty dunks. The more strength he gets the more he will show off his hops in the NBA.
The math is a bit off on that vid. The vid seems to indicate that the top of his head is level with the rim. The rim is 120" high. Subtract BI's 80" height, and you have a 40" vert. Still, your point is proven. I way underestimated his vert, but in my defense, if you look at his dunk highlights, his head isn't near the rim on those dunks. However, in BI's defense, he dunks like a guy who knows he doesn't need to use his max vert. In that way, he's similar to Worthy who didn't try to jump as high as he possibly could on every dunk.
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