OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
"Kawhi produced at a solid rate on these possessions when he got the opportunity - a significantly higher rate than Ingram did - but had a demonstrably different role."

Those numbers tell you what he would have produced playing the same role as Ingram, with the same personnel?

Those numbers tell you what Ingram would produce under the same conditions as KL?

Would it be safe to say that Ingram's data would look a lot different if he wasn't pressured to fill a role he wasn't ready for?

How might KL's data look if he were asked to play point at that age for extended minutes?

If we're going to be nuanced shouldn't we also consider circumstances and conditions?

And since we can't replicate the same conditions under which a particular result is given aren't we operating on assumption?

You proved KL played well under the conditions he operated in. Not Brandon's.

You didn't prove any of those players mentioned would be just as effective given the same role and opportunity at the same age. There is no way to know.

Which is why I wouldn't dismiss Ingram's per 36 with "oh they would have done it too".


My thoughts exactly. But you forget the biggest factor here Devin "Brandon's just not very good at basketball"
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
"Kawhi produced at a solid rate on these possessions when he got the opportunity - a significantly higher rate than Ingram did - but had a demonstrably different role."

Those numbers tell you what he would have produced playing the same role as Ingram, with the same personnel?

Those numbers tell you what Ingram would produce under the same conditions as KL?

Would it be safe to say that Ingram's data would look a lot different if he wasn't pressured to fill a role he wasn't ready for?

How might KL's data look if he were asked to play point at that age for extended minutes?

If we're going to be nuanced shouldn't we also consider circumstances and conditions?

And since we can't replicate the same conditions under which a particular result is given aren't we operating on assumption?

You proved KL played well under the conditions he operated in. Not Brandon's.

You didn't prove any of those players mentioned would be just as effective given the same role and opportunity at the same age. There is no way to know.

Which is why I wouldn't dismiss Ingram's per 36 with "oh they would have done it too".


My thoughts exactly. But you forget the biggest factor here Devin "Brandon's just not very good at basketball"


Knock it off.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
"Kawhi produced at a solid rate on these possessions when he got the opportunity - a significantly higher rate than Ingram did - but had a demonstrably different role."

Those numbers tell you what he would have produced playing the same role as Ingram, with the same personnel?

Those numbers tell you what Ingram would produce under the same conditions as KL?

Would it be safe to say that Ingram's data would look a lot different if he wasn't pressured to fill a role he wasn't ready for?

How might KL's data look if he were asked to play point at that age for extended minutes?

If we're going to be nuanced shouldn't we also consider circumstances and conditions?

And since we can't replicate the same conditions under which a particular result is given aren't we operating on assumption?

You proved KL played well under the conditions he operated in. Not Brandon's.

You didn't prove any of those players mentioned would be just as effective given the same role and opportunity at the same age. There is no way to know.

Which is why I wouldn't dismiss Ingram's per 36 with "oh they would have done it too".


My thoughts exactly. But you forget the biggest factor here Devin "Brandon's just not very good at basketball"


Knock it off.


Is that not a factual statement made?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Here's my bold prediction for Ingram:

He will be our clear second option and have a statline of: 20/5/5 on 48/37/72 in about 33 minutes per game.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
Here's my bold prediction for Ingram:

He will be our clear second option and have a statline of: 20/5/5 on 48/37/72 in about 33 minutes per game.


he was forced feed to be a #1 option last year and didnt average those numbers and u think this year with lebron and other vets he is averaging that much?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
Here's my bold prediction for Ingram:

He will be our clear second option and have a statline of: 20/5/5 on 48/37/72 in about 33 minutes per game.


Not sure about the numbers, but agree he will likely be second option and an occasionally a designated stopper on D. In two years, he could be all star.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Here's my bold prediction for Ingram:

He will be our clear second option and have a statline of: 20/5/5 on 48/37/72 in about 33 minutes per game.


he was forced feed to be a #1 option last year and didnt average those numbers and u think this year with lebron and other vets he is averaging that much?


Two main reasons:

1. I think he gets alot better this upcoming season, he made a huge jump in his first to second season without a legit trainer. Now he's actually training with legit trainers, has more confidence and more experience. I don't see him as a guy that stops improving.

2. I think he was forced to ISO as much as he did last season because as a team we didn't have many options. I think he's better suited to be a robin to Lebron, because his numbers are more efficient off the ball. He's going to thrive in his new role.

Also, I don't think his touches go down even with the roster we have. He was force fed to be the number 1 option last season, and I think he'll be force fed to be the second option this season. They're going to groom him to be Lebron's wing man, and he's going to come out proving he deserves that role.

plus, I said it was a "bold prediction" so the numbers had to be bold lol
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject:

1. Ignores Adam Keefe.
https://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170915-ingram-keefe-interview

2. Pretty sure he ran a lot more PnR than Iso, but now he has to work more off-ball, which he rarely exhibited in January/February, but okay.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
1. Ignores Adam Keefe.
https://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170915-ingram-keefe-interview

2. Pretty sure he ran a lot more PnR than Iso, but now he has to work more off-ball, which he rarely exhibited in January/February, but okay.


good points.

However last off season Ingram didn't have a legit shooting coach (according to Magic), this off season he (and his trainer has too) has expressed confidence about his confidence in his jump shot.

He will be more off ball and I think that will increase his numbers because he'll have guys looking for him on backdoor cuts, transition etc. Something only Lonzo really did last season, I think his scoring numbers improve due to that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
1. Ignores Adam Keefe.
https://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170915-ingram-keefe-interview

2. Pretty sure he ran a lot more PnR than Iso, but now he has to work more off-ball, which he rarely exhibited in January/February, but okay.


good points.

However last off season Ingram didn't have a legit shooting coach (according to Magic), this off season he (and his trainer has too) has expressed confidence about his confidence in his jump shot.

He will be more off ball and I think that will increase his numbers because he'll have guys looking for him on backdoor cuts, transition etc. Something only Lonzo really did last season, I think his scoring numbers improve due to that.


1. https://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170915-ingram-keefe-interview

Quote:
RELEASE POINT
INGRAM: I was shooting over my head. With my long arms, it was like a slingshot. Coming from college to the NBA, I was only about 180 pounds, so I was trying to push the ball to the rim from the 3-point line. I think I’ve gotten strong enough now where I feel comfortable shooting the ball from the 3-point line now. As I keep getting stronger, it’s going to be natural.

KEEFE: (We focused on) his hand placement on the ball and where his guide hand was. He has very long arms, so making his shot a little bit tighter and more compact, because when you have long arms more mistakes can be made. Shooting more one-handed and getting his left hand off the ball, specifically.


2. It's not that the Lakers can't find him. It's that he doesn't make the cut.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
1. Ignores Adam Keefe.
https://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170915-ingram-keefe-interview

2. Pretty sure he ran a lot more PnR than Iso, but now he has to work more off-ball, which he rarely exhibited in January/February, but okay.


Brian Keefe.

But yeah, he was getting work in with a pretty well-respected player development guy in Keefe last summer, when he stayed in town. I thought it was interesting that he sought training elsewhere and left LA after the progress he made last year.

Also, 38.6% of his offense was out of the PnR and 15.2% of it was on Isos, so you're correct about that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
1. Ignores Adam Keefe.
https://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170915-ingram-keefe-interview

2. Pretty sure he ran a lot more PnR than Iso, but now he has to work more off-ball, which he rarely exhibited in January/February, but okay.


Brian Keefe.

But yeah, he was getting work in with a pretty well-respected player development guy in Keefe last summer, when he stayed in town. I thought it was interesting that he sought training elsewhere and left LA after the progress he made last year.

Also, 38.6% of his offense was out of the PnR and 15.2% of it was on Isos, so you're correct about that.


I was wondering why I was getting Utah Jazz flashbacks.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject:

Keefe wasn't a legit shooting coach, Magic Johnson specifically said that Luke opted to not have a shooting coach last season and this off season he'd make sure they work with a shooting coach.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject:

I think Kuz will emerge as the second option initially, just based on his style of play. He's uber aggressive, and I don't see him dialing it back (assuming he starts).

Ingram will look to assimilate and find his place within the flow of what's going on. While he's calibrating and making adjustments I don't believe he'll be as aggressive as Kuz. It usually takes Ingram a while to get revved up, though maybe that changes this season.

Eventually Ingram and Rondo will be the second initiators within the half court sets.

I'm thinking Ingram and Kuz will have similar scoring numbers throughout the season with neither emerging as a clear cut second option, only difference being Ingram will initiate more often.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Here's my bold prediction for Ingram:

He will be our clear second option and have a statline of: 20/5/5 on 48/37/72 in about 33 minutes per game.


he was forced feed to be a #1 option last year and didnt average those numbers and u think this year with lebron and other vets he is averaging that much?


Two main reasons:

1. I think he gets alot better this upcoming season, he made a huge jump in his first to second season without a legit trainer. Now he's actually training with legit trainers, has more confidence and more experience. I don't see him as a guy that stops improving.

2. I think he was forced to ISO as much as he did last season because as a team we didn't have many options. I think he's better suited to be a robin to Lebron, because his numbers are more efficient off the ball. He's going to thrive in his new role.

Also, I don't think his touches go down even with the roster we have. He was force fed to be the number 1 option last season, and I think he'll be force fed to be the second option this season. They're going to groom him to be Lebron's wing man, and he's going to come out proving he deserves that role.

plus, I said it was a "bold prediction" so the numbers had to be bold lol


I agree, I completely believe he will get to 18-20ppg and 5/5. I believe in most other offenses he would get 6-7 assists as well but this team is just stacked with above average facilitators all through out the lineup. Ingram is going to thrive as the second option catching passes off the ball from all these guys and I believe right from the start of the season he is going to look lethal out there.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
Keefe wasn't a legit shooting coach, Magic Johnson specifically said that Luke opted to not have a shooting coach last season and this off season he'd make sure they work with a shooting coach.


Micah Lancaster isn't a shooting coach either, he's a skills trainer.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
Here's my bold prediction for Ingram:

He will be our clear second option and have a statline of: 20/5/5 on 48/37/72 in about 33 minutes per game.


Sounds about right
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
"Kawhi produced at a solid rate on these possessions when he got the opportunity - a significantly higher rate than Ingram did - but had a demonstrably different role."

Those numbers tell you what he would have produced playing the same role as Ingram, with the same personnel?

Those numbers tell you what Ingram would produce under the same conditions as KL?

Would it be safe to say that Ingram's data would look a lot different if he wasn't pressured to fill a role he wasn't ready for?

How might KL's data look if he were asked to play point at that age for extended minutes?

If we're going to be nuanced shouldn't we also consider circumstances and conditions?

And since we can't replicate the same conditions under which a particular result is given aren't we operating on assumption?

You proved KL played well under the conditions he operated in. Not Brandon's.

You didn't prove any of those players mentioned would be just as effective given the same role and opportunity at the same age. There is no way to know.

Which is why I wouldn't dismiss Ingram's per 36 with "oh they would have done it too".


My thoughts exactly. But you forget the biggest factor here Devin "Brandon's just not very good at basketball"


Knock it off.


Is that not a factual statement made?


Not really, on two fronts:

The context of when and how it was made (Ingram was indeed playing pretty awful basketball), and the fact that you’re not adding it to put some useful fact into the discussion, but rather to try and yank a chain. Unfortunately, I’m now on the other end of that chain, and my bite is worse than your bark, so I suggest just moving on.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Keefe wasn't a legit shooting coach, Magic Johnson specifically said that Luke opted to not have a shooting coach last season and this off season he'd make sure they work with a shooting coach.


Micah Lancaster isn't a shooting coach either, he's a skills trainer.


Are the Lakers still bringing in a shooting coach?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject:

oldschool32 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Keefe wasn't a legit shooting coach, Magic Johnson specifically said that Luke opted to not have a shooting coach last season and this off season he'd make sure they work with a shooting coach.


Micah Lancaster isn't a shooting coach either, he's a skills trainer.


Are the Lakers still bringing in a shooting coach?


I haven't heard anything on that front. From what I've seen it's the same structure that's been in place, with individual assistant coaches overseeing the development of the players that they're assigned. I haven't been there since mid-June with the draft workouts, but I don't think anything has changed.

Brian Keefe = Brandon Ingram
Miles Simon = Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart
Jud Buechler = Ivica Zubac, Thomas Bryant (I don't know if they'll replace him)
Jesse Mermuys = Julius Randle

I feel like Madsen was assigned someone, but I can't remember who it was.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject:

Its funny, this offseason the pro-Ingram posters have gotten much more militant. I like BI too, but jeez, any criticism of him is like peeing on the Kobe statue by the reaction you get.

I like him, some think he will become the Robin to Lebron's Batman, we'll see. Can he adapt to playing with Lebron, can he improve on open perimeter shooting enough to be a 18-22 point scorer? If he does that, then he can be the play the Pippin.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
Its funny, this offseason the pro-Ingram posters have gotten much more militant. I like BI too, but jeez, any criticism of him is like peeing on the Kobe statue by the reaction you get.

I like him, some think he will become the Robin to Lebron's Batman, we'll see. Can he adapt to playing with Lebron, can he improve on open perimeter shooting enough to be a 18-22 point scorer? If he does that, then he can be the play the Pippin.


This is a lie.. or maybe just an attempt to bait someone who is supposedly "pro-Ingram".
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject:

BBall Index


@The_BBall_Index
2m2 minutes ago
More
Brandon Ingram:

Perimeter Shooting: B
Slashing & BH: C+
Playmaking: C+
Post Play: D

Perimeter Defense: C+
Interior Defense: D+

Rebounding: B-

Overall Offense: B-
Overall Defense: C+

Still only 20 with tons of potential, raw offensively, look for him to make a leap this year
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
oldschool32 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Keefe wasn't a legit shooting coach, Magic Johnson specifically said that Luke opted to not have a shooting coach last season and this off season he'd make sure they work with a shooting coach.


Micah Lancaster isn't a shooting coach either, he's a skills trainer.


Are the Lakers still bringing in a shooting coach?


I haven't heard anything on that front. From what I've seen it's the same structure that's been in place, with individual assistant coaches overseeing the development of the players that they're assigned. I haven't been there since mid-June with the draft workouts, but I don't think anything has changed.

Brian Keefe = Brandon Ingram
Miles Simon = Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart
Jud Buechler = Ivica Zubac, Thomas Bryant (I don't know if they'll replace him)
Jesse Mermuys = Julius Randle

I feel like Madsen was assigned someone, but I can't remember who it was.


Interesting. DO Ball, KUz, and Hart train together? What is the reasoning behind BI training solo? Was it just a seniority thing?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject:

Practice wrote:
BBall Index


@The_BBall_Index
2m2 minutes ago
More
Brandon Ingram:

Perimeter Shooting: B
Slashing & BH: C+
Playmaking: C+
Post Play: D

Perimeter Defense: C+
Interior Defense: D+

Rebounding: B-

Overall Offense: B-
Overall Defense: C+

Still only 20 with tons of potential, raw offensively, look for him to make a leap this year


I think their grades are a little off. My ten cent evaluation (in parens):

Perimeter Shooting: B (C+)
Slashing & BH: C+ (A-)
Playmaking: C+ (B)
Post Play: D (D)

Perimeter Defense: C+ (C+)
Interior Defense: D+ (C)

Rebounding: B- (B)

Overall Offense: B- (B)
Overall Defense: C+ (C+)
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