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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Yin is right:
Health
More 3's
Defense
rest is noise |
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3169
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: |
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There's no such thing as a sure thing but I'd say it's pretty much a sure thing that he increases his FGA, including 3PA, while getting higher quality attempts more often as well as increasing his FT%. 20+ppg is well within reach. Last season he averaged 22 when he had at least 16 FGA (15 games) and he only hit 11 3s total over that span. 19.6 PPG in 5 games with exactly 16 attempts. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I don't know the big need to trade for a superstar when there is already four that can develop into stars. With a couple more possible solid rotation players.
Ingram has the best chance of turning into a Durant or PG type of player. If he can get his shooting to elite he will be there.
The same thing for Lonzo. Lonzo has elite PG skills. But his shot is broken. But it can be fixed just like Ingram is improving. He has to accept that working on it will make him a superstar.
Kuzma has superstar shooting skills. But as they say his defense can be improved. But it is not that far away.
Josh Hart is a solid rotation player and a winner. Much like the Fisher type who will hit the big shot.
And this year they have the best mentors in Lebron and Rondo.
Would consider hiring Kobe as a shooting coach. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Ingram has the best chance of turning into a Durant or PG type of player. |
Pretty big divide b/w KD/PG.
I've never understood why people think BI/KD has any comparison other than they are both insanely long and skinny. They play nothing alike IMO. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Ingram has the best chance of turning into a Durant or PG type of player. |
Pretty big divide b/w KD/PG.
I've never understood why people think BI/KD has any comparison other than they are both insanely long and skinny. They play nothing alike IMO. |
Yeah, I've never agreed with the KD comparisons. How do you feel about the comparisons with PG? _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Ingram was the number 2 pick in a draft. He must have shown something.
The Lakers were lucky enough to have 3 number 2 picks.
DLO was a strikeout. But still can make it.
They have two more strikes.
Have to give them time to develop. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Ingram has the best chance of turning into a Durant or PG type of player. |
Pretty big divide b/w KD/PG.
I've never understood why people think BI/KD has any comparison other than they are both insanely long and skinny. They play nothing alike IMO. |
Yeah, I've never agreed with the KD comparisons. How do you feel about the comparisons with PG? |
I don't see it. PG was always a pretty stout defender. BI has some tools but defense wasn't exactly his calling card. BI has a lot of time though and I'm excited about him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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We will be fortunate if Ingram develops into a player close to PG. PG’s role of second offensive option who can defend on a contending team is something we could use. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: |
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laker50 wrote: | Ingram was the number 2 pick in a draft. He must have shown something.
The Lakers were lucky enough to have 3 number 2 picks.
DLO was a strikeout. But still can make it.
They have two more strikes.
Have to give them time to develop. |
I don't think DLO is a strikeout b/c he helped us shed Moz (huge), have Brook for a year (helping us win 35 games), and a 1st round pick that we used to draft Kuz. I still think the kid can put it together.
Now, someone like Okafor, that's a strikeout. 76ers literally got nothing for him. IIRC they had to include a 2nd rounder to trade him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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pokoy Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14545
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | We will be fortunate if Ingram develops into a player close to PG. PG’s role of second offensive option who can defend on a contending team is something we could use. |
For the amount of money PG is making, he better be a second offensive option who can defend on a contending team. I never thought he'd be a great alpha which is why he was never my first choice on my free agent wishlist for that much money (in fact before Lebron ever became a target I was on the "let the kids grow together" bandwagon).
That said, we don't have to worry about that with Ingram because if he doesn't develop into that, then he's not getting paid that money yet. We have the luxury of talented young guys and vets on really great deals, we have a lot of value for what we are paying right now. It's perfect.
If we face OKC and Ingram manages to give PG fits the same way Joe Ingles completely owned him for Utah, then that is amazing value. |
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Annihilator Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:52 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | We will be fortunate if Ingram develops into a player close to PG. PG’s role of second offensive option who can defend on a contending team is something we could use. |
pokoy wrote: | For the amount of money PG is making, he better be a second offensive option who can defend on a contending team. I never thought he'd be a great alpha which is why he was never my first choice on my free agent wishlist for that much money (in fact before Lebron ever became a target I was on the "let the kids grow together" bandwagon).
That said, we don't have to worry about that with Ingram because if he doesn't develop into that, then he's not getting paid that money yet. We have the luxury of talented young guys and vets on really great deals, we have a lot of value for what we are paying right now. It's perfect.
If we face OKC and Ingram manages to give PG fits the same way Joe Ingles completely owned him for Utah, then that is amazing value. | _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
--Anonymous |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Ingram is someone who I can see coming up big under pressure, when the Thunder needed Paul George to step up in Game 6 he completely layed an egg, the same guy who whined when CJ Miles took the last shot in the playoffs when PG was playing for the Pacers, Ingram has more intangibles to be apart of a title team. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram won't have to do alot of playmaking this season with Lonzo, Rondo, and Lebron on the roster.
Which is fine, he's well suited to be a finisher. He's a free throw magnet and uses his length well around the basket. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Ingram has the best chance of turning into a Durant or PG type of player. |
Pretty big divide b/w KD/PG.
I've never understood why people think BI/KD has any comparison other than they are both insanely long and skinny. They play nothing alike IMO. |
Yeah, I've never agreed with the KD comparisons. How do you feel about the comparisons with PG? |
I don't see it. PG was always a pretty stout defender. BI has some tools but defense wasn't exactly his calling card. BI has a lot of time though and I'm excited about him. |
When he was drafted he actually had the reputation of being a very good defender. That was a big part of his upside as a prospect. To this point it just hasn't translated in his pro career. He still has to learn to use his length to his advantage. But I'm more confident he’ll get there with high basketball IQ guys like LeBron and Rondo shepherding his development now. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is a SHAME when you have to give up second picks in the draft to get rid of a player that you HIRED at big money. This is not good. It is incompetence.
Ingram has his own unique skill set. But even Durant and PG had to have time to grow. Lets give Ingram and Ball their chance to grow.
But don't want the Lakers to spend their time giving up second draft picks to get rid of players that they hired.
Quote: |
laker50 wrote:
Ingram was the number 2 pick in a draft. He must have shown something.
The Lakers were lucky enough to have 3 number 2 picks.
DLO was a strikeout. But still can make it.
They have two more strikes.
Have to give them time to develop.
I don't think DLO is a strikeout b/c he helped us shed Moz (huge), have Brook for a year (helping us win 35 games), and a 1st round pick that we used to draft Kuz. I still think the kid can put it together.
Now, someone like Okafor, that's a strikeout. 76ers literally got nothing for him. IIRC they had to include a 2nd rounder to trade him.
_________________ |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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I think Ingram has a chance of being better than PG, on average, over the next 4 seasons... the same way I thought Randle had a chance of being better than Blake Griffin over the next 4 seasons. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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laker50 wrote: | I think it is a SHAME when you have to give up second picks in the draft to get rid of a player that you HIRED at big money. This is not good. It is incompetence.
Ingram has his own unique skill set. But even Durant and PG had to have time to grow. Lets give Ingram and Ball their chance to grow.
But don't want the Lakers to spend their time giving up second draft picks to get rid of players that they hired.
Quote: |
laker50 wrote:
Ingram was the number 2 pick in a draft. He must have shown something.
The Lakers were lucky enough to have 3 number 2 picks.
DLO was a strikeout. But still can make it.
They have two more strikes.
Have to give them time to develop.
I don't think DLO is a strikeout b/c he helped us shed Moz (huge), have Brook for a year (helping us win 35 games), and a 1st round pick that we used to draft Kuz. I still think the kid can put it together.
Now, someone like Okafor, that's a strikeout. 76ers literally got nothing for him. IIRC they had to include a 2nd rounder to trade him.
_________________ |
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All of this assumes that all draft classes are relatively equal in talent.
This is far from the case. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | I think Ingram has a chance of being better than PG, on average, over the next 4 seasons... the same way I thought Randle had a chance of being better than Blake Griffin over the next 4 seasons. |
I'm 50/50 on the BI > PG for the next 4 years, which says a lot about BI.
The only way I see Julius being better than Blake for the next 4 years is if Blake stays injury prone. I think Blake's offense being more well rounded than Julius' out weighs the defense that Julius brings. |
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3baller Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2017 Posts: 992
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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manlisten wrote: | There's no such thing as a sure thing but I'd say it's pretty much a sure thing that he increases his FGA, including 3PA, while getting higher quality attempts more often as well as increasing his FT%. 20+ppg is well within reach. Last season he averaged 22 when he had at least 16 FGA (15 games) and he only hit 11 3s total over that span. 19.6 PPG in 5 games with exactly 16 attempts. |
16 attempts a game is legit 2nd option type usage. He has to average 19-21 a game if he gets that many looks. But there's a lot of deterrent to that happening this year.
Luke Walton believes in ball movement but seems allergic to hot individual scoring. I don't think he realizes that the Warriors which he tries to emulate are actually very top heavy when it comes to usage and FGA with KD, Steph and Klay getting 18, 16 and 16 FGA each respectively. Sure they pass the ball around during a possession but the ball ultimately ends up on one of those 3 key guys. Luke wants the ball passed around but doesn't have much of a plan where it ends up before the shot. I would be pleasantly surprised if Luke adopts a top heavy approach and get both Kuz and Ingram 15+ looks next season.
We also have a bunch of vets who will want to get their shots. We brought in Beasley who's gonna shoot at least 10 a game from the bench who also plays forward. Lebron of course is here which means better efficiency but less attempts for everybody else(good for the team, not for individual stats).
So no, I don't think BI will even get 14 FGA this season which means he'll probably end up with 17-18ppg on more effecient shooting. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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3baller wrote: | manlisten wrote: | There's no such thing as a sure thing but I'd say it's pretty much a sure thing that he increases his FGA, including 3PA, while getting higher quality attempts more often as well as increasing his FT%. 20+ppg is well within reach. Last season he averaged 22 when he had at least 16 FGA (15 games) and he only hit 11 3s total over that span. 19.6 PPG in 5 games with exactly 16 attempts. |
16 attempts a game is legit 2nd option type usage. He has to average 19-21 a game if he gets that many looks. But there's a lot of deterrent to that happening this year.
Luke Walton believes in ball movement but seems allergic to hot individual scoring. I don't think he realizes that the Warriors which he tries to emulate are actually very top heavy when it comes to usage and FGA with KD, Steph and Klay getting 18, 16 and 16 FGA each respectively. Sure they pass the ball around during a possession but the ball ultimately ends up on one of those 3 key guys. Luke wants the ball passed around but doesn't have much of a plan where it ends up before the shot. I would be pleasantly surprised if Luke adopts a top heavy approach and get both Kuz and Ingram 15+ looks next season.
We also have a bunch of vets who will want to get their shots. We brought in Beasley who's gonna shoot at least 10 a game from the bench who also plays forward. Lebron of course is here which means better efficiency but less attempts for everybody else(good for the team, not for individual stats).
So no, I don't think BI will even get 14 FGA this season which means he'll probably end up with 17-18ppg on more effecient shooting. |
I think we just didn't really have guys last year you trusted to shoot that many times and given the inexperience of our talent, he tried to preach equal distribution. I think that will slowly go away now that LeBron is here. BI and Kuz will most def be our #2 and #3 guys... |
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Eindhoven Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 Posts: 1930 Location: Zürich
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Jesusdelonla wrote: | Yin is right:
Health
More 3's
Defense
rest is noise |
Of course we all want Ingram to have a healthy season, but I don't think it's a point of concern. He played 79 games in his 1st season and had missed only 4 games when that incident with Justise Winslow happened.
So far, he only had one considerable chunk of missed games due to injury, and that was caused by a rough play. _________________ .... |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:16 am Post subject: |
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3baller wrote: | manlisten wrote: | There's no such thing as a sure thing but I'd say it's pretty much a sure thing that he increases his FGA, including 3PA, while getting higher quality attempts more often as well as increasing his FT%. 20+ppg is well within reach. Last season he averaged 22 when he had at least 16 FGA (15 games) and he only hit 11 3s total over that span. 19.6 PPG in 5 games with exactly 16 attempts. |
16 attempts a game is legit 2nd option type usage. He has to average 19-21 a game if he gets that many looks. But there's a lot of deterrent to that happening this year.
Luke Walton believes in ball movement but seems allergic to hot individual scoring. I don't think he realizes that the Warriors which he tries to emulate are actually very top heavy when it comes to usage and FGA with KD, Steph and Klay getting 18, 16 and 16 FGA each respectively. Sure they pass the ball around during a possession but the ball ultimately ends up on one of those 3 key guys. Luke wants the ball passed around but doesn't have much of a plan where it ends up before the shot. I would be pleasantly surprised if Luke adopts a top heavy approach and get both Kuz and Ingram 15+ looks next season.
We also have a bunch of vets who will want to get their shots. We brought in Beasley who's gonna shoot at least 10 a game from the bench who also plays forward. Lebron of course is here which means better efficiency but less attempts for everybody else(good for the team, not for individual stats).
So no, I don't think BI will even get 14 FGA this season which means he'll probably end up with 17-18ppg on more effecient shooting. | Fair, but a coach also has to adapt to his personnel. Sure BI and Kuz can get hot for a quarter or two, but it is nothing like having two of the top 5 scorers in the league playing off each other. Why do you think the heavily under-talented 2014 Spurs so thoroughly dismantled prime Lebron and the Heatles? I get Luke is no Pop but if we can get to playing more like that we will be very, very difficult to stop. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Ingram has the best chance of turning into a Durant or PG type of player. |
Pretty big divide b/w KD/PG.
I've never understood why people think BI/KD has any comparison other than they are both insanely long and skinny. They play nothing alike IMO. |
Yeah, I've never agreed with the KD comparisons. How do you feel about the comparisons with PG? |
I don't see it. PG was always a pretty stout defender. BI has some tools but defense wasn't exactly his calling card. BI has a lot of time though and I'm excited about him. |
When he was drafted he actually had the reputation of being a very good defender. That was a big part of his upside as a prospect. To this point it just hasn't translated in his pro career. He still has to learn to use his length to his advantage. But I'm more confident he’ll get there with high basketball IQ guys like LeBron and Rondo shepherding his development now. |
He's also very young and physically underdeveloped so I give him more time (at least until his 4th season next year). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:00 am Post subject: |
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What needs to be considered is Ingram and Ball are only 20 years old. And you can see it on the court where they are not yet physically developed like the other players. They will add muscle and strength. Hopefully, it doesn't slow them down.
Hart and Kuzma seems to be more developed and they did finish their college time. So they most likely are older. |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Bron and Ingram working out:
https://i.redd.it/7gfz04a5c3f11.jpg
I'm (bleep) hype _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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