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socalsp3
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
I thought KCP was pretty good after the jail thing.

I expect him to be key contributor this season. He has the tools.


I generally agree but his shot selection (at least last season) was horrible.

He is going to have to tighten up his game and play more efficiently for me to be completely on board.


a lot of it was being the only scorer on the floor on last years team at times. He should be more efficient getting open looks with lebron.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject:

This year's market for marginal starters / rotation players @ SG & SF:

Group 1 (multi-year > $20M total)
Zach Lavine 4-$78M
Will Barton 4-$54M
Dante Exum 3-$33M
Kyle Anderson 4-$37M
Jerami Grant 3-$27M
Doug McDermott 3-$22M
Avery Bradley 2-$25M (can turn into 1-$14M)

Group 2 (1-year > $10M)
Trevor Ariza 1-$15M
JJ Redick 1-$13M
Tyreke Evans 1-$12.5M
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 1-$12M

Group 3 (avg < $10M)
Joe Harris 2-$16M
Marco Belinelli 2-$12M
Glenn Robinson III 2-$8.3M
Mario Hezonja 1-$6.5M
Lance Stephenson 1-$4.5M
Luc Mbah Moute 1-$4.3

Group 4 (min)
Jeff Green Min
Gerald Green Min
Omar Caspi Min
Nik Stauskas Min

In a lien market teams still spent on (a) stars, (b) shooting and (c) wings.

KCP is 25 years old. Last year he shot 38% from 3pt distance on 5.6 attempts and shot 42% post all star break (25 games). He's a decent defender and has a good motor. There are a lot of things he doesn't do well, but it seems to me we pegged his market at about the right spot.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
This year's market for marginal starters / rotation players @ SG & SF:

Group 1 (multi-year > $20M total)
Zach Lavine 4-$78M
Will Barton 4-$54M
Dante Exum 3-$33M
Kyle Anderson 4-$37M
Jerami Grant 3-$27M
Doug McDermott 3-$22M
Avery Bradley 2-$25M (can turn into 1-$14M)

Group 2 (1-year > $10M)
Trevor Ariza 1-$15M
JJ Redick 1-$13M
Tyreke Evans 1-$12.5M
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 1-$12M

Group 3 (avg < $10M)
Joe Harris 2-$16M
Marco Belinelli 2-$12M
Glenn Robinson III 2-$8.3M
Mario Hezonja 1-$6.5M
Lance Stephenson 1-$4.5M
Luc Mbah Moute 1-$4.3

Group 4 (min)
Jeff Green Min
Gerald Green Min
Omar Caspi Min
Nik Stauskas Min

In a lien market teams still spent on (a) stars, (b) shooting and (c) wings.

KCP is 25 years old. Last year he shot 38% from 3pt distance on 5.6 attempts and shot 42% post all star break (25 games). He's a decent defender and has a good motor. There are a lot of things he doesn't do well, but it seems to me we pegged his market at about the right spot.


Nice 👍 good post
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:14 am    Post subject:

I'm confused over KCP's bird rights. Next season, wouldn't they be able to spend their money and then go over the cap to sign him? That would be a big deal if so. Regardless of Hart's progression, having KCP's defense from 1-3 and hopefully improved shot selection would be a big deal to build long term...

G: Ball, Hart, KCP, Bonga
F: James, Leonard, Ingram, Kuzma, Svi
C: Wagner

I'm copying the work from 32's post to lead the KL thread....

"Cap Space Math to Sign Kawhi (after Deng Dump or Stretch) in Summer 2019
The only way to trade for Kawhi right now is to include at least $16.1m in salary. We cannot use any of the free agents we signed (Rondo, Stephenson or McGee) in a trade until after December 12, 2018. We cannot use KCP in a trade because he has a 1 year deal (after extending with the Lakers), making it so he has a no trade clause.

To sign Kawhi next summer of 2019, we will need to either dump Deng or stretch him. If we stretch him, we'll need to rescind all of our rights/cap holds for our FAs. Here is the math -

$37,430,000......LeBron James (1)
$32,700,000......Kawhi Leonard (2)
$8,719,320........Lonzo Ball (3)
$7,265,485........Brandon Ingram (4)
$2,164,680........Moritz Wagner (5)
$1,974,600........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$1,934,160........Josh Hart (7)
$1,550,000...…...Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk (8)
$1,416,852........Isaac Bonga (9)
$897,158...........Min Salary (10)
$897,158...........Min Salary (11)
$897,158...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$97,846,571

$6,200,000........Luol Deng (1 year $18.8m Stretched)
____________
$104,046,571

Deng Dump: $109,000,000 (Cap) - $97,846,571 (Salaries) = $11,153,429 cap space left
Deng Stretch: $109,000,000 (Cap) - $104,046,571 (Salaries) = $4,953,429 cap space left"

.... so my question would be wouldn't they be able to spend the room up until hitting the cap and then sign KCP with bird rights? That, or would the fact that they'd have to renounce his cap hold revoke the full bird rights? This could be a big deal that we may be overlooking when considering KCP's signing, as it would basically be a quality 6th man for nothing (vs the cap) in a year. If you've made it this far, I'd ask the same quesion about Zubac, but I'm thinking he'd have to be signed within space or an exception.

Even if they didn't retain any of the UFA's (Rondo, McGee, Beasley, etc..), you still have the room that needs used ($4.95M from 32's math) and the room exception (a little more than $4.5M).

Figure in being able to keep the 1st round pick, and those are THREE significant assets to build onto that core....plus KCP. If anyone knows this would be helpful. Thank you.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:00 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
I'm confused over KCP's bird rights. Next season, wouldn't they be able to spend their money and then go over the cap to sign him? That would be a big deal if so. Regardless of Hart's progression, having KCP's defense from 1-3 and hopefully improved shot selection would be a big deal to build long term...

G: Ball, Hart, KCP, Bonga
F: James, Leonard, Ingram, Kuzma, Svi
C: Wagner

I'm copying the work from 32's post to lead the KL thread....

"Cap Space Math to Sign Kawhi (after Deng Dump or Stretch) in Summer 2019
The only way to trade for Kawhi right now is to include at least $16.1m in salary. We cannot use any of the free agents we signed (Rondo, Stephenson or McGee) in a trade until after December 12, 2018. We cannot use KCP in a trade because he has a 1 year deal (after extending with the Lakers), making it so he has a no trade clause.

To sign Kawhi next summer of 2019, we will need to either dump Deng or stretch him. If we stretch him, we'll need to rescind all of our rights/cap holds for our FAs. Here is the math -

$37,430,000......LeBron James (1)
$32,700,000......Kawhi Leonard (2)
$8,719,320........Lonzo Ball (3)
$7,265,485........Brandon Ingram (4)
$2,164,680........Moritz Wagner (5)
$1,974,600........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$1,934,160........Josh Hart (7)
$1,550,000...…...Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk (8)
$1,416,852........Isaac Bonga (9)
$897,158...........Min Salary (10)
$897,158...........Min Salary (11)
$897,158...........Min Salary (12)
____________
$97,846,571

$6,200,000........Luol Deng (1 year $18.8m Stretched)
____________
$104,046,571

Deng Dump: $109,000,000 (Cap) - $97,846,571 (Salaries) = $11,153,429 cap space left
Deng Stretch: $109,000,000 (Cap) - $104,046,571 (Salaries) = $4,953,429 cap space left"

.... so my question would be wouldn't they be able to spend the room up until hitting the cap and then sign KCP with bird rights? That, or would the fact that they'd have to renounce his cap hold revoke the full bird rights? This could be a big deal that we may be overlooking when considering KCP's signing, as it would basically be a quality 6th man for nothing (vs the cap) in a year. If you've made it this far, I'd ask the same quesion about Zubac, but I'm thinking he'd have to be signed within space or an exception.

Even if they didn't retain any of the UFA's (Rondo, McGee, Beasley, etc..), you still have the room that needs used ($4.95M from 32's math) and the room exception (a little more than $4.5M).

Figure in being able to keep the 1st round pick, and those are THREE significant assets to build onto that core....plus KCP. If anyone knows this would be helpful. Thank you.


I thought u to had to play 3 seasons for a team to have bird rights
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject:

if you renounce a players cap hold you release their bird rights as well
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
if you renounce a players cap hold you release their bird rights as well


https://www.thoughtco.com/bird-rights-definition-325754

I didn't read into it enough, thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject:

According cbafaq:

Quote:


EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception. It also allows teams to exceed the cap to re-sign their own free agents, but with more limited contracts than the Larry Bird exception. To qualify for this exception the player must play for two seasons without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent (see question number 32 for details and nuances to this rule). A team may use the Early Bird exception to re-sign its own free agent for up to 175% of his salary in the previous season (not over the maximum salary, of course) or 105% of the average salary in the previous season3, whichever is greater (see question number 31 for the definition of "average salary"). Early Bird contracts must be at least two seasons in length, which prevents teams from using the Early Bird to sign a one-year contract, then signing the same player with the full Larry Bird exception the following season. Early Bird contracts can be up to four years in length, with raises up to 8% of the salary in the first season of the contract. Early Bird is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception, and qualifying players are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
This year's market for marginal starters / rotation players @ SG & SF:

Group 1 (multi-year > $20M total)
Zach Lavine 4-$78M
Will Barton 4-$54M
Dante Exum 3-$33M
Kyle Anderson 4-$37M
Jerami Grant 3-$27M
Doug McDermott 3-$22M
Avery Bradley 2-$25M (can turn into 1-$14M)

Group 2 (1-year > $10M)
Trevor Ariza 1-$15M
JJ Redick 1-$13M
Tyreke Evans 1-$12.5M
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 1-$12M

Group 3 (avg < $10M)
Joe Harris 2-$16M
Marco Belinelli 2-$12M
Glenn Robinson III 2-$8.3M
Mario Hezonja 1-$6.5M
Lance Stephenson 1-$4.5M
Luc Mbah Moute 1-$4.3

Group 4 (min)
Jeff Green Min
Gerald Green Min
Omar Caspi Min
Nik Stauskas Min

In a lien market teams still spent on (a) stars, (b) shooting and (c) wings.

KCP is 25 years old. Last year he shot 38% from 3pt distance on 5.6 attempts and shot 42% post all star break (25 games). He's a decent defender and has a good motor. There are a lot of things he doesn't do well, but it seems to me we pegged his market at about the right spot.


Looking at that list, KCP is better then most of those guys.
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lakerican
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
This year's market for marginal starters / rotation players @ SG & SF:

Group 1 (multi-year > $20M total)
Zach Lavine 4-$78M
Will Barton 4-$54M
Dante Exum 3-$33M
Kyle Anderson 4-$37M
Jerami Grant 3-$27M
Doug McDermott 3-$22M
Avery Bradley 2-$25M (can turn into 1-$14M)

Group 2 (1-year > $10M)
Trevor Ariza 1-$15M
JJ Redick 1-$13M
Tyreke Evans 1-$12.5M
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 1-$12M

Group 3 (avg < $10M)
Joe Harris 2-$16M
Marco Belinelli 2-$12M
Glenn Robinson III 2-$8.3M
Mario Hezonja 1-$6.5M
Lance Stephenson 1-$4.5M
Luc Mbah Moute 1-$4.3

Group 4 (min)
Jeff Green Min
Gerald Green Min
Omar Caspi Min
Nik Stauskas Min

In a lien market teams still spent on (a) stars, (b) shooting and (c) wings.

KCP is 25 years old. Last year he shot 38% from 3pt distance on 5.6 attempts and shot 42% post all star break (25 games). He's a decent defender and has a good motor. There are a lot of things he doesn't do well, but it seems to me we pegged his market at about the right spot.


Looking at that list, KCP is better then most of those guys.


Yep, but for LG the only good player is "old" Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
This year's market for marginal starters / rotation players @ SG & SF:

Group 1 (multi-year > $20M total)
Zach Lavine 4-$78M
Will Barton 4-$54M
Dante Exum 3-$33M
Kyle Anderson 4-$37M
Jerami Grant 3-$27M
Doug McDermott 3-$22M
Avery Bradley 2-$25M (can turn into 1-$14M)

Group 2 (1-year > $10M)
Trevor Ariza 1-$15M
JJ Redick 1-$13M
Tyreke Evans 1-$12.5M
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 1-$12M

Group 3 (avg < $10M)
Joe Harris 2-$16M
Marco Belinelli 2-$12M
Glenn Robinson III 2-$8.3M
Mario Hezonja 1-$6.5M
Lance Stephenson 1-$4.5M
Luc Mbah Moute 1-$4.3

Group 4 (min)
Jeff Green Min
Gerald Green Min
Omar Caspi Min
Nik Stauskas Min

In a lien market teams still spent on (a) stars, (b) shooting and (c) wings.

KCP is 25 years old. Last year he shot 38% from 3pt distance on 5.6 attempts and shot 42% post all star break (25 games). He's a decent defender and has a good motor. There are a lot of things he doesn't do well, but it seems to me we pegged his market at about the right spot.


Looking at that list, KCP is better then most of those guys.


Yep, but for LG the only good player is "old" Kawhi.


Fans only seem to be attached to star players, but KCP is a very valuable player when he’s engaged.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

If KCP plays like he did after his legal troubles were over, his signing will be HUGE. Last couple of months he averaged about 14 points, almost 7 rebounds, and shot about 43% from 3. I think its fair to say LJ will allow him to get more wide open looks.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
If KCP plays like he did after his legal troubles were over, his signing will be HUGE. Last couple of months he averaged about 14 points, almost 7 rebounds, and shot about 43% from 3. I think its fair to say LJ will allow him to get more wide open looks.


Yep, I’m expecting him to have a big season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
If KCP plays like he did after his legal troubles were over, his signing will be HUGE. Last couple of months he averaged about 14 points, almost 7 rebounds, and shot about 43% from 3. I think its fair to say LJ will allow him to get more wide open looks.


the numbers won't matter as much as the efficiency and defense but I agree that LeBron opens up the game for him
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
According cbafaq:

Quote:


EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception. It also allows teams to exceed the cap to re-sign their own free agents, but with more limited contracts than the Larry Bird exception. To qualify for this exception the player must play for two seasons without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent (see question number 32 for details and nuances to this rule). A team may use the Early Bird exception to re-sign its own free agent for up to 175% of his salary in the previous season (not over the maximum salary, of course) or 105% of the average salary in the previous season3, whichever is greater (see question number 31 for the definition of "average salary"). Early Bird contracts must be at least two seasons in length, which prevents teams from using the Early Bird to sign a one-year contract, then signing the same player with the full Larry Bird exception the following season. Early Bird contracts can be up to four years in length, with raises up to 8% of the salary in the first season of the contract. Early Bird is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception, and qualifying players are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA.



Thanks for the post and I'm sorry I was too lazy not to see this. Since he hasn't changed teams due to free agency, I don't see anything regarding a cap hold, hence the exception. So, it would benefit the team to sign him to a reasonable deal long term and front load the money the 8% each year to combat future extensions.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
If KCP plays like he did after his legal troubles were over, his signing will be HUGE. Last couple of months he averaged about 14 points, almost 7 rebounds, and shot about 43% from 3. I think its fair to say LJ will allow him to get more wide open looks.


the numbers won't matter as much as the efficiency and defense but I agree that LeBron opens up the game for him


nah. KCP after his jail time was probably the best player in our team...

For some reason, it always felt as if KCP's form affected us the most on how good we were last season.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject:

IMO since we had the flexibility, one year for $12 mill for KCP was with in reason.
KCP is a good all-round 3 & D player. He's not quite as tough a defender as advertised but he can hold his own most of the time (1.1 spg). Pope has always been a pretty good scorer and has a nice 3-point shot.
Plus he is a returning for his second season in LA so there should be more cohesion and familiarity with teammates.

KCP's numbers will probably be similar to to last season but his shooting percentages should go up because he will get more open looks with LBJ and Rondo added to the mix.
Also, with the team focusing on defense, KCP should get a lot of easy baskets and fast break points.
Overall KCP, with more consistency, should have a solid season.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject:

If KCP plays efficiently, he may end up being the go-to perimeter scorer behind Lebron. KCP would be the smarter, better defending JR Smith.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject:

KCP is going to be big for the Lakers this year.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
KCP is going to be big for the Lakers this year.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
KCP is going to be big for the Lakers this year.


He’s gonna be that guy who makes the Important baskets.


Last edited by Inspector Gadget on Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
If KCP plays efficiently, he may end up being the go-to perimeter scorer behind Lebron. KCP would be the smarter, better defending JR Smith.
yep. JR if given the chance could pass better than kcp. but since he rarely got that chance with the cavs. kcp will exceed Jr's production in every category.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject:

I don't think JR Smith is a good comp for KCP. Very different players. And KCP's basketball IQ isn't much to rave about, even in comparison to Smith. He gets by defensively primarily on effort and anticipation.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject:

From Bball Index:

Quote:

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope:

Perimeter Shooting: A-
Finishing: B
Playmaking: B

Perimeter Defense: B
Overall Rebounding: A-


https://twitter.com/The_BBall_Index/status/1026528330072260608


I think KCP has become a little underrated. Yes, he can have some low IQ plays but after his legal troubles ended he played fantastic for us. He should have an even better more efficient season with Zo, Rondo, and Bron feeding him.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:30 am    Post subject:

We have discussed quite a bit about who will be the secondary star this year behind Lebron. Many think it will/should be Brandon Ingram and that may well be the case. Where I think BI can make the biggest impact is in the non-scoring stats like defense, rebounds, assists, etc. BI chiefly drove the ball and lead the offense in the second half of the year, probably not how we will be used this year with Lebron and the other vets brought in. Perimeter shooting is really important, and BI may or may not fill this role.

I have this feeling that KCP might be the overlooked secondary option. A guy who has shot well from the perimeter and can get quite hot shooting 3 pointers. It might be KCP who becomes that 18-22 ppg player, chiefly from the perimeter, that becomes the second leading scorer behind Lebron.

For a guy that we paid $18 million dollars last year, he was easily the best big-money contract, where we received a good return for our money. Better than Lopez, Mozgov, Deng, and possibly Howard and Nash. Now on a $12 million one year deal, playing alongside Lebron, I expect an equally good return on our investment.
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