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999
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 Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Thank god for Dave Filoni.
The live actions might be crap but Dave fills in the holes with the animations.
I hated both episode 7 and 8. The fact they made Luke some hermit living on a remote island because his nephew destroyed his Jedi world is lame. They are trying to make him look like yoda when Luke is not that. And ray and Kylo are annoying they don’t have much substance. Disney really (bleep) up on what could have been a good stories. They watered it down and boasted new plot lines away from the skywalker family. I suppose that’s cool but they didn’t do it right |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Eh. We'll always have the Timothy Zahn trilogy. That was better than any of the prequels and sequels. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The fact they made Luke some hermit living on a remote island because his nephew destroyed his Jedi world is lame. They are trying to make him look like yoda when Luke is not that. |
It's interesting that so many people are having this reaction. You say "Luke is not that" as if you know who this imaginary person you didn't create is and they aren't allowed to change or be any different from when you last saw them. I think this is rubbing people the wrong way not because they want to just be fed the same thing over and over again (though that is possible) but because Luke went from representing themselves at their most heroically pure into them at their most humanly flawed. And they don't find that nearly as fun.
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I think what makes the treatment of Luke particularly troublesome is that we had the happy ending. We had it for over 40 years. Our vision of Luke was the guy who ran off with Obi-Wan for adventure. He convinced Han to help him rescue Leia on the Death Star. He then volunteers to go on a suicide mission to destroy that Death Star. Against Yoda's and Obi-Wan's better judgment, he runs to try to save Han and Leia, knowing it will result in a confrontation with Vader. He rescues everyone from Jabba the Hutt. Finally, he leaves to face the Emperor and Darth Vader alone.
Star Wars fans had that image of Luke for 40 years. Always the fearless hero who tries to save everyone. To eventually have his story conclude be learning that he actually runs away from a threat he almost definitely could have stopped is disappointing for many. I've mentioned before that this wasn't surprising for me because I knew something like this would happen once the new trilogy was announced. New stories have to be told. Honestly, though as much as I enjoyed The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi to a degree, I'm not sure if I would have rather have had the happy Return of the Jedi ending with the expanded universe in the books.
It just comes down to fan-service vs. story telling. While I understand the need to tell new good stories, I don't think people should be too surprised when fans take big changes to characters poorly. Mark Hamill himself didn't like the changes. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| 999 wrote: | | I hated both episode 7 and 8. The fact they made Luke some hermit living on a remote island because his nephew destroyed his Jedi world is lame. They are trying to make him look like yoda when Luke is not that. |
Ya, I was hoping to see more shades of Anakin in Luke. I think it would've made for a better character.
Heck maybe even have Luke leading a third party group. Or working for "the bad guys" by thinking he could change things from within. Hermit Luke served the movie fine. But there were better alternatives.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | I think what makes the treatment of Luke particularly troublesome is that we had the happy ending. We had it for over 40 years. Our vision of Luke was the guy who ran off with Obi-Wan for adventure. He convinced Han to help him rescue Leia on the Death Star. He then volunteers to go on a suicide mission to destroy that Death Star. Against Yoda's and Obi-Wan's better judgment, he runs to try to save Han and Leia, knowing it will result in a confrontation with Vader. He rescues everyone from Jabba the Hutt. Finally, he leaves to face the Emperor and Darth Vader alone.
Star Wars fans had that image of Luke for 40 years. Always the fearless hero who tries to save everyone. To eventually have his story conclude be learning that he actually runs away from a threat he almost definitely could have stopped is disappointing for many. I've mentioned before that this wasn't surprising for me because I knew something like this would happen once the new trilogy was announced. New stories have to be told. Honestly, though as much as I enjoyed The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi to a degree, I'm not sure if I would have rather have had the happy Return of the Jedi ending with the expanded universe in the books.
It just comes down to fan-service vs. story telling. While I understand the need to tell new good stories, I don't think people should be too surprised when fans take big changes to characters poorly. Mark Hamill himself didn't like the changes. |
This is dead on the money. The Timothy Zahn trilogy and the next few books (I read only a handful of them after Zahn’s trilogy) continued the story in the spirit of the original trilogy. The movies were going to be something different. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think what makes the treatment of Luke particularly troublesome is that we had the happy ending. We had it for over 40 years |
I agree this is definitely the crux of this particular criticism. There's a lot of beautiful, rich storytelling going on with Luke in The Last Jedi, but to appreciate it you first have to be willing to let go of that happy ending from RotJ. You have to be willing to see the character as a human and not an avatar for traditional heroic ideals. It seems a lot of fans simply didn't want to do that.
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I think what makes the treatment of Luke particularly troublesome is that we had the happy ending. We had it for over 40 years |
I agree this is definitely the crux of this particular criticism. There's a lot of beautiful, rich storytelling going on with Luke in The Last Jedi, but to appreciate it you first have to be willing to let go of that happy ending from RotJ. You have to be willing to see the character as a human and not an avatar for traditional heroic ideals. It seems a lot of fans simply didn't want to do that. |
I realize my math was off. I should have said 35 years. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | I think what makes the treatment of Luke particularly troublesome is that we had the happy ending. We had it for over 40 years. Our vision of Luke was the guy who ran off with Obi-Wan for adventure. He convinced Han to help him rescue Leia on the Death Star. He then volunteers to go on a suicide mission to destroy that Death Star. Against Yoda's and Obi-Wan's better judgment, he runs to try to save Han and Leia, knowing it will result in a confrontation with Vader. He rescues everyone from Jabba the Hutt. Finally, he leaves to face the Emperor and Darth Vader alone.
Star Wars fans had that image of Luke for 40 years. Always the fearless hero who tries to save everyone. To eventually have his story conclude be learning that he actually runs away from a threat he almost definitely could have stopped is disappointing for many. I've mentioned before that this wasn't surprising for me because I knew something like this would happen once the new trilogy was announced. New stories have to be told. Honestly, though as much as I enjoyed The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi to a degree, I'm not sure if I would have rather have had the happy Return of the Jedi ending with the expanded universe in the books.
It just comes down to fan-service vs. story telling. While I understand the need to tell new good stories, I don't think people should be too surprised when fans take big changes to characters poorly. Mark Hamill himself didn't like the changes. |
This is dead on the money. The Timothy Zahn trilogy and the next few books (I read only a handful of them after Zahn’s trilogy) continued the story in the spirit of the original trilogy. The movies were going to be something different. |
Thrawn trilogy is so, so good.
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | I think what makes the treatment of Luke particularly troublesome is that we had the happy ending. We had it for over 40 years. Our vision of Luke was the guy who ran off with Obi-Wan for adventure. He convinced Han to help him rescue Leia on the Death Star. He then volunteers to go on a suicide mission to destroy that Death Star. Against Yoda's and Obi-Wan's better judgment, he runs to try to save Han and Leia, knowing it will result in a confrontation with Vader. He rescues everyone from Jabba the Hutt. Finally, he leaves to face the Emperor and Darth Vader alone.
Star Wars fans had that image of Luke for 40 years. Always the fearless hero who tries to save everyone. To eventually have his story conclude be learning that he actually runs away from a threat he almost definitely could have stopped is disappointing for many. I've mentioned before that this wasn't surprising for me because I knew something like this would happen once the new trilogy was announced. New stories have to be told. Honestly, though as much as I enjoyed The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi to a degree, I'm not sure if I would have rather have had the happy Return of the Jedi ending with the expanded universe in the books.
It just comes down to fan-service vs. story telling. While I understand the need to tell new good stories, I don't think people should be too surprised when fans take big changes to characters poorly. Mark Hamill himself didn't like the changes. |
This is dead on the money. The Timothy Zahn trilogy and the next few books (I read only a handful of them after Zahn’s trilogy) continued the story in the spirit of the original trilogy. The movies were going to be something different. |
Thrawn trilogy is so, so good. |
I've reread it a few times recently. I had all the the books from the expanded universe growing up. All of them. I didn't like the New Jedi Order era though, ironically because it took a lot of the story away from the original characters. |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I saw an article earlier today that said Disney is likely canceling the new Rian Johnson trilogy. Not sure if that's old news or even true. I would be thrilled if it was true. It said Kathleen Kennedy may also get fired, Disney hates TLJ, Rian Johnson completely abandoned what TLJ was supposed to be about and killed off Luke early, and Colin Trevorrow was fired from episode 9 because he was furious about what Rian Johnson was doing with ep 8. Interesting. Really wish they would have just hired someone like Joss Whedon to write the whole trilogy. Not sure if he still has it but his Buffy writing was exceptional and he knows how to write an awesome mythology about destiny. Plus he's a SW fan. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | I saw an article earlier today that said Disney is likely canceling the new Rian Johnson trilogy. Not sure if that's old news or even true. I would be thrilled if it was true. It said Kathleen Kennedy may also get fired, Disney hates TLJ, Rian Johnson completely abandoned what TLJ was supposed to be about and killed off Luke early, and Colin Trevorrow was fired from episode 9 because he was furious about what Rian Johnson was doing with ep 8. Interesting. |
Was the article written by LukeRoolz69?
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The Thief
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Amazes me that with unlimited budget and resources they can still make crappy movies. I'd much rather have cookie cutter MCU style movies that are at least entertaining than what has been churned out in these first 2 movies. I'm not against deviation from the formula but you better get it right. Don't see how anyone that grew up with the original trilogy could see TFA and TLJ as anything but a massive fail. TFA awakens could have been passable with a few scene changes but TLJ is a complete throwaway. |
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | I saw an article earlier today that said Disney is likely canceling the new Rian Johnson trilogy. Not sure if that's old news or even true. I would be thrilled if it was true. It said Kathleen Kennedy may also get fired, Disney hates TLJ, Rian Johnson completely abandoned what TLJ was supposed to be about and killed off Luke early, and Colin Trevorrow was fired from episode 9 because he was furious about what Rian Johnson was doing with ep 8. Interesting. |
Was the article written by LukeRoolz69? |
I have not heard the rumor, but it is something that I have wondered myself. Lucasfilm has a history of not hesitating when it comes to letting go of directors and even cancelling projects. It's not ridiculous to think Rian Johnson's trilogy would be something they would reconsider since it seems like a lot of fans are mad at him. I have a friend who refused to see Solo because he was so mad about TLJ, which I know doesn't make sense. I just wanted to share the state of the fandom.
I liked TLJ fine. It's better than the prequels. Significantly better. I strongly disagree with anyone who feels otherwise. It might be better than Rogue One, but doesn't top any of the other Star Wars films in my opinion. My main problem with the movie wasn't the Luke story line, but the Rose one. I thought it was horrible. Cringe-worthy at times. I feel bad that the actress has been the victim of cyber-bullying and obviously did not partake in any of that, but I did not like her character in the film. I also thought many of the jokes didn't land. I saw the movie 3 times in crowded theaters on opening weekend and during every showing there was silence in the audience during obvious attempts at humor in the movie. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: |
I have not heard the rumor, but it is something that I have wondered myself. Lucasfilm has a history of not hesitating when it comes to letting go of directors and even cancelling projects. It's not ridiculous to think Rian Johnson's trilogy would be something they would reconsider since it seems like a lot of fans are mad at him. I have a friend who refused to see Solo because he was so mad about TLJ, which I know doesn't make sense. I just wanted to share the state of the fandom. |
I think the amount of fans that are personally offended and outraged over the last movie is relatively very small but very very vocal. To call this a rumor is generous. Disney approved the scripts for the movie, and saw all the cuts, and saw the final product. Their reaction wasn't disappointment, as the previous poster implied, but rather to give Johnson a whole new trilogy to spearhead. That's a funny way of showing that they hate his movie.
| Vishnu wrote: | | I liked TLJ fine. It's better than the prequels. Significantly better. I strongly disagree with anyone who feels otherwise. It might be better than Rogue One, but doesn't top any of the other Star Wars films in my opinion. My main problem with the movie wasn't the Luke story line, but the Rose one. I thought it was horrible. Cringe-worthy at times. I feel bad that the actress has been the victim of cyber-bullying and obviously did not partake in any of that, but I did not like her character in the film. I also thought many of the jokes didn't land. I saw the movie 3 times in crowded theaters on opening weekend and during every showing there was silence in the audience during obvious attempts at humor in the movie. |
I had a very different theater experience than you, where the jokes seemed to land very well and the audience was super excited throughout. I liked Rose and thought she served a real purpose, but I respect that some of the elements may not have worked for you.
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: |
I have not heard the rumor, but it is something that I have wondered myself. Lucasfilm has a history of not hesitating when it comes to letting go of directors and even cancelling projects. It's not ridiculous to think Rian Johnson's trilogy would be something they would reconsider since it seems like a lot of fans are mad at him. I have a friend who refused to see Solo because he was so mad about TLJ, which I know doesn't make sense. I just wanted to share the state of the fandom. |
I think the amount of fans that are personally offended and outraged over the last movie is relatively very small but very very vocal. To call this a rumor is generous. Disney approved the scripts for the movie, and saw all the cuts, and saw the final product. Their reaction wasn't disappointment, as the previous poster implied, but rather to give Johnson a whole new trilogy to spearhead. That's a funny way of showing that they hate his movie.
| Vishnu wrote: | | I liked TLJ fine. It's better than the prequels. Significantly better. I strongly disagree with anyone who feels otherwise. It might be better than Rogue One, but doesn't top any of the other Star Wars films in my opinion. My main problem with the movie wasn't the Luke story line, but the Rose one. I thought it was horrible. Cringe-worthy at times. I feel bad that the actress has been the victim of cyber-bullying and obviously did not partake in any of that, but I did not like her character in the film. I also thought many of the jokes didn't land. I saw the movie 3 times in crowded theaters on opening weekend and during every showing there was silence in the audience during obvious attempts at humor in the movie. |
I had a very different theater experience than you, where the jokes seemed to land very well and the audience was super excited throughout. I liked Rose and thought she served a real purpose, but I respect that some of the elements may not have worked for you. |
I agree on the small but vocal take. At the same time though, Solo did not do well for a Star Wars film, even one not part of the main episodic storyline. TLJ itself, while being I believe the #1 film of 2017, fell short of expectations. (Personally, I saw TFA 13 times in theaters and TLJ only four. I kept thinking I would like it more with a rewatch so I could see what the critics saw. I never quite got there though) It's part of the issue of managing the Star Wars franchise. It's the biggest piece of IP in the world. The expectations are always super high. It's for that reason that I wondered if Rian Johnson's new trilogy is in jeopardy. Also, consider that this is going to be a trilogy, not a single movie. What if the first one has a similar reception as Solo? What if it's even worse? Are they still going to make the next 2? These are expensive movies. These thoughts have likely been considered by Disney and Lucasfilm. They might not want to risk the embarrassment of having to cancel the final 2 movies.
Regarding the jokes. everyone loved the porgs and anything with the droids. It's the other stuff that missed. |
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Fallout
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: |
I have not heard the rumor, but it is something that I have wondered myself. Lucasfilm has a history of not hesitating when it comes to letting go of directors and even cancelling projects. It's not ridiculous to think Rian Johnson's trilogy would be something they would reconsider since it seems like a lot of fans are mad at him. I have a friend who refused to see Solo because he was so mad about TLJ, which I know doesn't make sense. I just wanted to share the state of the fandom. |
I think the amount of fans that are personally offended and outraged over the last movie is relatively very small but very very vocal. To call this a rumor is generous. Disney approved the scripts for the movie, and saw all the cuts, and saw the final product. Their reaction wasn't disappointment, as the previous poster implied, but rather to give Johnson a whole new trilogy to spearhead. That's a funny way of showing that they hate his movie.
| Vishnu wrote: | | I liked TLJ fine. It's better than the prequels. Significantly better. I strongly disagree with anyone who feels otherwise. It might be better than Rogue One, but doesn't top any of the other Star Wars films in my opinion. My main problem with the movie wasn't the Luke story line, but the Rose one. I thought it was horrible. Cringe-worthy at times. I feel bad that the actress has been the victim of cyber-bullying and obviously did not partake in any of that, but I did not like her character in the film. I also thought many of the jokes didn't land. I saw the movie 3 times in crowded theaters on opening weekend and during every showing there was silence in the audience during obvious attempts at humor in the movie. |
I had a very different theater experience than you, where the jokes seemed to land very well and the audience was super excited throughout. I liked Rose and thought she served a real purpose, but I respect that some of the elements may not have worked for you. |
I agree on the small but vocal take. At the same time though, Solo did not do well for a Star Wars film, even one not part of the main episodic storyline. TLJ itself, while being I believe the #1 film of 2017, fell short of expectations. (Personally, I saw TFA 13 times in theaters and TLJ only four. I kept thinking I would like it more with a rewatch so I could see what the critics saw. I never quite got there though) It's part of the issue of managing the Star Wars franchise. It's the biggest piece of IP in the world. The expectations are always super high. It's for that reason that I wondered if Rian Johnson's new trilogy is in jeopardy. Also, consider that this is going to be a trilogy, not a single movie. What if the first one has a similar reception as Solo? What if it's even worse? Are they still going to make the next 2? These are expensive movies. These thoughts have likely been considered by Disney and Lucasfilm.
Regarding the jokes. everyone loved the porgs and anything with the droids. It's the other stuff that missed. |
The stuff that was missed is basically the entire rest of the movie. TFA at least was watchable. To be honest I didn't like the casts. But TLJ is just horrible. The fan backlash is very vocal, myself included. I know the old cast had to be killed off to make room for the new generation, but its just an atrocity that we never saw Luke fight again. And he even thought about killing his own nephew. TFA hyped up finding Luke, TLJ just made him a weak old man. Unforgivable.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: |
I agree on the small but vocal take. At the same time though, Solo did not do well for a Star Wars film, even one not part of the main episodic storyline. TLJ itself, while being I believe the #1 film of 2017, fell short of expectations. (Personally, I saw TFA 13 times in theaters and TLJ only four. I kept thinking I would like it more with a rewatch so I could see what the critics saw. I never quite got there though) It's part of the issue of managing the Star Wars franchise. It's the biggest piece of IP in the world. The expectations are always super high. It's for that reason that I wondered if Rian Johnson's new trilogy is in jeopardy. Also, consider that this is going to be a trilogy, not a single movie. What if the first one has a similar reception as Solo? What if it's even worse? Are they still going to make the next 2? These are expensive movies. These thoughts have likely been considered by Disney and Lucasfilm.
Regarding the jokes. everyone loved the porgs and anything with the droids. It's the other stuff that missed. |
I think there's several reasons for Solo not doing very well, and I don't think many or any have to do with TLJ (other than its release date being too close to TLJ). I just didn't know a single person who was excited to see it. I like Star Wars but I'm no superfan (don't partake in any of the Extended U) and a young Han Solo movie could not have interested me less.
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: |
I agree on the small but vocal take. At the same time though, Solo did not do well for a Star Wars film, even one not part of the main episodic storyline. TLJ itself, while being I believe the #1 film of 2017, fell short of expectations. (Personally, I saw TFA 13 times in theaters and TLJ only four. I kept thinking I would like it more with a rewatch so I could see what the critics saw. I never quite got there though) It's part of the issue of managing the Star Wars franchise. It's the biggest piece of IP in the world. The expectations are always super high. It's for that reason that I wondered if Rian Johnson's new trilogy is in jeopardy. Also, consider that this is going to be a trilogy, not a single movie. What if the first one has a similar reception as Solo? What if it's even worse? Are they still going to make the next 2? These are expensive movies. These thoughts have likely been considered by Disney and Lucasfilm.
Regarding the jokes. everyone loved the porgs and anything with the droids. It's the other stuff that missed. |
I think there's several reasons for Solo not doing very well, and I don't think many or any have to do with TLJ (other than its release date being too close to TLJ). I just didn't know a single person who was excited to see it. I like Star Wars but I'm no superfan (don't partake in any of the Extended U) and a young Han Solo movie could not have interested me less. |
Definitely true. At the same time though, and this would be a discussion separate from Rian Johnson's effect on viewers, there could be worry on Star Wars over-saturation. That might affect his trilogy as well as other Star Wars stories. Last I heard, other film projects are "on hold" and everything is going into episode 9. How that is received could affect other films.
Star Wars needs to learn from Marvel in at least this respect: not everything needs to be the biggest movie of the year. Make Avengers, but then have lower expectations for Guardians of the Galaxy, and even lower expectations for Ant-Man. With Star Wars, it seems like everything has to be a historical box office force. Perhaps, this is outside their control since it's just a reputation they have developed through past films. It could be that the "failure" of the last 2 films will allow everyone to view different Star Wars films through different lenses. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: |
I agree on the small but vocal take. At the same time though, Solo did not do well for a Star Wars film, even one not part of the main episodic storyline. TLJ itself, while being I believe the #1 film of 2017, fell short of expectations. (Personally, I saw TFA 13 times in theaters and TLJ only four. I kept thinking I would like it more with a rewatch so I could see what the critics saw. I never quite got there though) It's part of the issue of managing the Star Wars franchise. It's the biggest piece of IP in the world. The expectations are always super high. It's for that reason that I wondered if Rian Johnson's new trilogy is in jeopardy. Also, consider that this is going to be a trilogy, not a single movie. What if the first one has a similar reception as Solo? What if it's even worse? Are they still going to make the next 2? These are expensive movies. These thoughts have likely been considered by Disney and Lucasfilm.
Regarding the jokes. everyone loved the porgs and anything with the droids. It's the other stuff that missed. |
I think there's several reasons for Solo not doing very well, and I don't think many or any have to do with TLJ (other than its release date being too close to TLJ). I just didn't know a single person who was excited to see it. I like Star Wars but I'm no superfan (don't partake in any of the Extended U) and a young Han Solo movie could not have interested me less. |
Definitely true. At the same time though, and this would be a discussion separate from Rian Johnson's effect on viewers, there could be worry on Star Wars over-saturation. That might affect his trilogy as well as other Star Wars stories. Last I heard, other film projects are "on hold" and everything is going into episode 9. How that is received could affect other films.
Star Wars needs to learn from Marvel in at least this respect: not everything needs to be the biggest movie of the year. Make Avengers, but then have lower expectations for Guardians of the Galaxy, and even lower expectations for Ant-Man. With Star Wars, it seems like everything has to be a historical box office force. Perhaps, this is outside their control since it's just a reputation they have developed through past films. It could be that the "failure" of the last 2 films will allow everyone to view different Star Wars films through different lenses. |
It's certainly possible they scale things back. I think that would be a good thing. But if Johnson's trilogy ends up being put on hold it won't be because Disney hated TLJ, as the OP of my initial response suggested. I agree that expectations are probably a bit out of whack. Solo still outperformed Marvel's Ant Man sequel. Their misses are still incredibly popular films.
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: |
I agree on the small but vocal take. At the same time though, Solo did not do well for a Star Wars film, even one not part of the main episodic storyline. TLJ itself, while being I believe the #1 film of 2017, fell short of expectations. (Personally, I saw TFA 13 times in theaters and TLJ only four. I kept thinking I would like it more with a rewatch so I could see what the critics saw. I never quite got there though) It's part of the issue of managing the Star Wars franchise. It's the biggest piece of IP in the world. The expectations are always super high. It's for that reason that I wondered if Rian Johnson's new trilogy is in jeopardy. Also, consider that this is going to be a trilogy, not a single movie. What if the first one has a similar reception as Solo? What if it's even worse? Are they still going to make the next 2? These are expensive movies. These thoughts have likely been considered by Disney and Lucasfilm.
Regarding the jokes. everyone loved the porgs and anything with the droids. It's the other stuff that missed. |
I think there's several reasons for Solo not doing very well, and I don't think many or any have to do with TLJ (other than its release date being too close to TLJ). I just didn't know a single person who was excited to see it. I like Star Wars but I'm no superfan (don't partake in any of the Extended U) and a young Han Solo movie could not have interested me less. |
Definitely true. At the same time though, and this would be a discussion separate from Rian Johnson's effect on viewers, there could be worry on Star Wars over-saturation. That might affect his trilogy as well as other Star Wars stories. Last I heard, other film projects are "on hold" and everything is going into episode 9. How that is received could affect other films.
Star Wars needs to learn from Marvel in at least this respect: not everything needs to be the biggest movie of the year. Make Avengers, but then have lower expectations for Guardians of the Galaxy, and even lower expectations for Ant-Man. With Star Wars, it seems like everything has to be a historical box office force. Perhaps, this is outside their control since it's just a reputation they have developed through past films. It could be that the "failure" of the last 2 films will allow everyone to view different Star Wars films through different lenses. |
It's certainly possible they scale things back. I think that would be a good thing. But if Johnson's trilogy ends up being put on hold it won't be because Disney hated TLJ, as the OP of my initial response suggested. I agree that expectations are probably a bit out of whack. Solo still outperformed Marvel's Ant Man sequel. Their misses are still incredibly popular films. |
I didn't mean to distract from the original response. The potential cancellation of the Rian Johnson trilogy was just something that had crossed my mind. Personally, I don't want it to be cancelled. I'm a big fan and want Star Wars to be the dominant franchise in film. |
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Fallout
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Joined: 03 Jun 2002
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: |
I didn't mean to distract from the original response. The potential cancellation of the Rian Johnson trilogy was just something that had crossed my mind. Personally, I don't want it to be cancelled. I'm a big fan and want Star Wars to be the dominant franchise in film. |
Dude, I hope Rian never gets the chance to butcher another Star Wars movie. The team that did Rogue One, they should be given a trilogy. Thats a master class on on a great movie. Best movie since Empire.
-Casting and compelling characters? Check.
-Solid story? Check.
-Epicness? Death Star blast and Vader massacre. Check.
They're cancelling alot of spinoffs, but I do hope they do a good Boba Fett movie, he deserves one.
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Vishnu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallout wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: |
I didn't mean to distract from the original response. The potential cancellation of the Rian Johnson trilogy was just something that had crossed my mind. Personally, I don't want it to be cancelled. I'm a big fan and want Star Wars to be the dominant franchise in film. |
Dude, I hope Rian never gets the chance to butcher another Star Wars movie. The team that did Rogue One, they should be given a trilogy. Thats a master class on on a great movie. Best movie since Empire.
-Casting and compelling characters? Check.
-Solid story? Check.
-Epicness? Death Star blast and Vader massacre. Check.
They're cancelling alot of spinoffs, but I do hope they do a good Boba Fett movie, he deserves one. |
I didn't like Rogue One that much. I enjoyed it overall since it's Star Wars, but I only have it above the prequels when comparing it to other films. I didn't care for the monks. It's also tough to become too invested in a story when you know exactly how it's going to end. The Vader scene at the end wasn't that exciting for me. |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a shame the Solo was a box office blunder. I personally have it as the best or 2nd best SW film since the original trilogy |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53836
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | Fallout wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: |
I didn't mean to distract from the original response. The potential cancellation of the Rian Johnson trilogy was just something that had crossed my mind. Personally, I don't want it to be cancelled. I'm a big fan and want Star Wars to be the dominant franchise in film. |
Dude, I hope Rian never gets the chance to butcher another Star Wars movie. The team that did Rogue One, they should be given a trilogy. Thats a master class on on a great movie. Best movie since Empire.
-Casting and compelling characters? Check.
-Solid story? Check.
-Epicness? Death Star blast and Vader massacre. Check.
They're cancelling alot of spinoffs, but I do hope they do a good Boba Fett movie, he deserves one. |
I didn't like Rogue One that much. I enjoyed it overall since it's Star Wars, but I only have it above the prequels when comparing it to other films. I didn't care for the monks. It's also tough to become too invested in a story when you know exactly how it's going to end. The Vader scene at the end wasn't that exciting for me. |
I've found the Vader scene to be an interesting bellwether for fans. It's an act of epic dominance, but it ultimately doesn't mean much. He's casually wiping away nameless extras. Similar to how I was surprised people were so tickled by the Avengers pounding a horde of faceless space robots who were introduced moments earlier so the Avengers could pound them. As long as it was "epic" or "badass" its good. It's why some feel robbed they didn't get to see Luke have his version of that Vader scene. They want Hulk to smash.
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