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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8288 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: No rebounds, no rings |
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As much as I'm starting to love this Laker roster (at least on paper), I'm somewhat concerned about defense and rebounding. I think we'll be a great offensive team and average 110-115 a game. It also looks like Magic, Pelinka and Walton want us to be a hard core running team.
But as Pat Riley told Magic's showtime teams, no rebounds, no rings. Besides maybe Lebron, who else on this team is a good rebounder? Maybe McGee when he's in, but he can't play major minutes. I don't know if we can count on Zubac to do anything meaningful. Ball is a good rebounder for a guard, but he only good for about 6-7 rebounds a game. You can't run if you don't have the ball.
I also wonder if Magic and Pelinka are disregarding the center position and counting on having forwards just masquerading at the 5 for major minutes long term. If I'm them, then either next summer or by the trade deadline I'm looking to sign a C who is a good rebounder and rim protector, unless Zubac becomes exactly that this season. They don't necessarily need a Deandre Jordan or Clint Capela, but maybe someone who's on the next level down in those two departments.
Am I the only one who's concerned about rebounding, especially defensive rebounding? How will we be able to run teams out of the gym if we're not good at that? _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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We can become a good rebounding team by committee same for Defense, it’s a collective thing that the Lakers will need to have. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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You forgot to mention Rondo, he’s a guy who can get double digit rebounds. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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We were second in rebounding last season and we traded Julius for LeBron and all we need to do is exceed Lopez's four rebounds per game from our center by committee position. Seems doable to me.
Rondo rebounds better than IT or Caruso... upgrade there as well.
Free throws and threes were our weak spot, but I'm hoping LBJ and Svi helps with that. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Lebron and Zo are good rebounders. Kuz, Hart, KCP, and BI are all decent. I'm not too worried about it. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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How did warriors do with rebounds? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | We were second in rebounding last season and we traded Julius for LeBron and all we need to do is exceed Lopez's four rebounds per game from our center by committee position. Seems doable to me.
Rondo rebounds better than IT or Caruso... upgrade there as well.
Free throws and threes were our weak spot, but I'm hoping LBJ and Svi helps with that. |
Yup, these two are still the biggest areas of concern. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Annihilator Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | We were second in rebounding last season and we traded Julius for LeBron and all we need to do is exceed Lopez's four rebounds per game from our center by committee position. Seems doable to me.
Rondo rebounds better than IT or Caruso... upgrade there as well.
Free throws and threes were our weak spot, but I'm hoping LBJ and Svi help with that. | _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
--Anonymous |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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People tend to forget also how good of a rebounder Stephenson is. That dude gets boards. Beasley is no slouch either. I'd expect a better year from.Kuz as well. Gang rebounding will be the theme and I fully expect everyone to buy in. |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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What you don't seem to be factoring in is how much the game has changed and how it impacts rebounding. Teams shoot a bunch of threes now. A bunch. And as they say, 'long shot, long rebound.' You don't necessarily need a huge guy in the paint who can gobble up boards for you to be an elite rebounding team in today's league. A decade or so ago (let alone over 30 years ago during the Showtime era) teams still valued mid range shots and ran their offense through the post, which means there weren't too many long rebounds. But now many of the rebounds are long because of the high volume of three point attempts.
LeBron will lead the team in rebounds and Lonzo will most likely be second. Hart is an elite rebounder amongst guards and Rondo has always been a good rebounding guard throughout his career. Lance is a pretty strong wing and one of several guys on this team who are consistent triple double threats (LeBron, Lonzo, and Rondo being the others), which requires a knack for rebounds. Kuz has also gotten a lot stronger this offseason (per Luke and Miles Simon), so I wouldn't be surprised if his rebounding is better since he'll be able to battle in traffic a little more than he did last year. But all in all, I think the rebounding will be fine. If anything they'll probably be among the best, if not the best. It's not an area of concern for me at all. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | People tend to forget also how good of a rebounder Stephenson is. That dude gets boards. Beasley is no slouch either. I'd expect a better year from.Kuz as well. Gang rebounding will be the theme and I fully expect everyone to buy in. |
we were a great rebounding team last year with Lopez being a very poor rebounder, now we have guys who bring effort on that end. |
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Raijin Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 6576
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Annihilator Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I think it depends on the team. The Laker's offense during Riley's time was centered on the fast break. Getting a defensive rebound started the offense. If the other team made a basket, the Lakers usually did not run. So, no rebounds meant no fast breaks and the Lakers had to go to offensive Plan B that involved Kareem trotting down the court.
The Warriors offense is not centered on running fast breaks so rebounding is not as important in starting their offense. _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
--Anonymous |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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They were top 5 in defensive boards.
Bottom 5 in offensive.
The adage has some truth to it, it’s just not the be all end all. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to get offensive boards when you never miss...lol |
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ForumBlueFrank Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 12889
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think you are forgetting we have Josh Barkley on the team. |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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im more concerned about being the worst shooting team in the league. we'll have loads of rebounds, at least offensive ones. the real bad sign would be if we were not just the worst shooting team in the league, but also the worst offensive rebounding team. that'll be the formula for doom. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11600
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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How do small lineups work if rebounding was an issue? The Warriors use small lineup all the time. If you have a small lineup in with a threat for fastbreaks, then the opposing team would not be so aggressive at trying to grab the offensive boards and set their players back in position to defend the fastbreaks better. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit. |
If LeBron wants he can grab rebounds like Randle but he is so good at scoring and passing and rebounding that he can do all 3 at the same time. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Riley's adage was disproved by Riley's 2012-2013 Heat, ironically. Outside of James, no one could rebound. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit. |
If LeBron wants he can grab rebounds like Randle but he is so good at scoring and passing and rebounding that he can do all 3 at the same time. |
Sustained motor like that doesn't work for guys past age 32 unless it's the one thing they do best.
GT had mentioned before on a podcast that LeBron found ways to rest in the middle of the game, and was essentially running it at a walking pace.
Gotta find an alternative. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo and Hart both MONSTER rebounders at their positions. _________________ KOBE |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: No rebounds, no rings |
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slavavov wrote: | Am I the only one who's concerned about rebounding, especially defensive rebounding? How will we be able to run teams out of the gym if we're not good at that? |
I am less concerned with defensive rebounding than with interior defense in general. It is a mistake to conflate the two. Just because you have a rebounding big man (say, Kevin Love in his Minneapolis days) does not mean that you are a good defensive rebounding team. A defensive rebound can go anywhere. Everyone has a role in getting the rebounds. You can be a good rebounding team without a dominant big man.
Interior defense is a different kettle of fish. JaVale McGee hasn't averaged more than 11.5 mpg since 2014. On a per 36 basis, he averaged 5.3 fouls per game last year. That's disturbing.
It isn't necessarily a question of opposing centers lighting it up against us. There aren't that many teams who can play that way in this era. People forget that post entry passes are not simple, and most centers are picked for their defense anyway. However, we may have zero rim protection. Some of our games may turn into layup drills for the other team.
That's the possibility that disturbs me, not the rebounding issue. |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit. |
losing randle, gaining lebron.
it's a wash in the rebounding category. in addition a good 1 of randle's 2 offensive boards was him rebounding his own miss.
lopez avg 4 a game at like 20 mins + per game. javale averaged 2.6 at 10 mins per game. you do the math. we didnt lose a thing in rebounding. |
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