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Jellojigglin
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Joined: 18 May 2001
Posts: 1548
Location: Venice, California
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 Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| ZenMaster4President wrote: | | Jellojigglin wrote: | | What are you people smoking he has 7 rings? He has more winning then most professional sports franchises. Big shot Bob is a damn NBA legend. There is no debate he will make it. |
So does Horace Grant. How about him? He has 4 rings hwith 2 teams AND an All-Star and 4 x All-D selections. Or is 7 the cut off?
Robert Horry won't be in HoF. There is no doubt in my mind. |
Yes blue collar specialists that are extraordinary like Horace Grant should make it. He is an eligible candidate not sure what point you are making? As I mentioned above Ben Wallace is a role player with similar specialties. Wallace was a four-time Defensive Player of the Year, and while his offensive contributions were limited he is still an NBA great.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 5234
Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:31 am Post subject: |
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There was a play @ SA in 02-03ish (only the wizardry of npz can bring this back to be reviewed) during which Tim Duncan had his arm outstretched over Horry's shoulder after a whistle. Horry had both arms extended straight upwards with palms to the sky to try and finesse the "see, I'm not the one making contact" trickery. Kenny Mauer turned his back to the play to communicate with the scorer's table. At this moment, Horry tangled Duncan's outstretched arm and bent forward at the waist which hyperextended Duncan's arm at the elbow and wrenched his shoulder. This lifted Duncan off of his feet as he shrieked in pain which the mics picked up. Duncan then pleads to Mauer during a closeup, and you can read Duncan's lips: "He tried to break my f___ing arm!" Mauer blew this off as run of the mill, standard Duncan whining. Horry did not receive any disciplinary action for this savagery.
Forget the HOF, Horry should have his own flag on the moon.
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Jellojigglin wrote: | | ZenMaster4President wrote: | | Jellojigglin wrote: | | What are you people smoking he has 7 rings? He has more winning then most professional sports franchises. Big shot Bob is a damn NBA legend. There is no debate he will make it. |
So does Horace Grant. How about him? He has 4 rings hwith 2 teams AND an All-Star and 4 x All-D selections. Or is 7 the cut off?
Robert Horry won't be in HoF. There is no doubt in my mind. |
Yes blue collar specialists that are extraordinary like Horace Grant should make it. He is an eligible candidate not sure what point you are making? As I mentioned above Ben Wallace is a role player with similar specialties. Wallace was a four-time Defensive Player of the Year, and while his offensive contributions were limited he is still an NBA great. |
Wallace was a four-time all-star, four-time DPoY, who made five all-NBA teams and twice led the league in rebounding.
Grant was a solid player but his resume isn't on par with Wallace's. |
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Batguano
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Jellojigglin wrote: | | What are you people smoking he has 7 rings? He has more winning then most professional sports franchises. Big shot Bob is a damn NBA legend. There is no debate he will make it. |
Agreed.. I understand the Importance of having great players being in the HOF, but I can’t help but think how many of those teams would have still won a title if it wasn’t for Big Shot Bob coming through in big games... |
Well, he's only hit TWO championship/series-swinging shots in his career. His buzzerbeater against the Kings in the 2002 WCFs (7 game series), and his game-winner against the Pistons in 2005 (7 game series).
So at MOST his teams would only have two less rings out of the 7 he helped win.
Not really that much of a dent as you and the rest of the Horry crusaders are trying to make it seem... |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Jellojigglin wrote: | | What are you people smoking he has 7 rings? He has more winning then most professional sports franchises. Big shot Bob is a damn NBA legend. There is no debate he will make it. |
Agreed.. I understand the Importance of having great players being in the HOF, but I can’t help but think how many of those teams would have still won a title if it wasn’t for Big Shot Bob coming through in big games... |
Well, he's only hit TWO championship/series-swinging shots in his career. His buzzerbeater against the Kings in the 2002 WCFs (7 game series), and his game-winner against the Pistons in 2005 (7 game series).
So at MOST his teams would only have two less rings out of the 7 he helped win.
Not really that much of a dent as you and the rest of the Horry crusaders are trying to make it seem... |
What about the clutch 3 against the Sixers in the 2001 Finals in Game 3? If he doesn’t hit the 3 it’s possible the Sixers would have went on to win and possibly turn the tide in the series. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Jellojigglin wrote: | | What are you people smoking he has 7 rings? He has more winning then most professional sports franchises. Big shot Bob is a damn NBA legend. There is no debate he will make it. |
I think Kurt Rambis should be in. How many rings does he have as a player + assistant coach?
4 as a player, 4 as an assistant coach?
Nope, just checked, says on wikipedia:
4 as a player, 2 as an assistant coach. Still, 6 is impressive!
Plus:
No. 34 retired by Santa Clara
Did Horry get his number retired anywhere? |
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Bol
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4045
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's just put everyone in the Hall of Fame. We don't want anybody's feelings hurt. |
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Batguano
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Jellojigglin wrote: | | What are you people smoking he has 7 rings? He has more winning then most professional sports franchises. Big shot Bob is a damn NBA legend. There is no debate he will make it. |
Agreed.. I understand the Importance of having great players being in the HOF, but I can’t help but think how many of those teams would have still won a title if it wasn’t for Big Shot Bob coming through in big games... |
Well, he's only hit TWO championship/series-swinging shots in his career. His buzzerbeater against the Kings in the 2002 WCFs (7 game series), and his game-winner against the Pistons in 2005 (7 game series).
So at MOST his teams would only have two less rings out of the 7 he helped win.
Not really that much of a dent as you and the rest of the Horry crusaders are trying to make it seem... |
What about the clutch 3 against the Sixers in the 2001 Finals in Game 3? If he doesn’t hit the 3 it’s possible the Sixers would have went on to win and possibly turn the tide in the series. |
You can't be serious.... 
I know that's one of those "it was closer than people remember" series but let's not kid ourselves. BTW, the Lakers were ALREADY up by 1 point before he made that 3.
Next you're going to tell me about the series-clinching 3 he hit against the Blazers in 2002 (in a series we swept them)...
Just grasping for straws at this point. |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4791
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| If they have HOF for clutch , Horry definitely deserved to be in that lore . As far as his career, he’s just did have any accolades, accomplishments and numbers to be mention among the greats. Rodman was one of those role player who made his way but he was so dominant defensively and his rebounding titles are hard to ignore. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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I really do think an exception should be made for Horry, and only him as far as I can think of.
People saying he absolutely shouldn't are as usual arguing from a pure statistical point of view. It's not just that he's an important role player, there are tons of those. He has a handful of moments, very distinct, clearly defined moments that have altered the NBA's overall history. Extremely important moments. A lot of the biggest stars in the sport don't have these moments, let alone multiple ones. I'm talking Kobe, MJ, MAgic, etc. that kind. It's unique, inexplicable, but enough for me to make an exception if i were king of the NBA.
His shot vs the Kings preserved that dynasty. He is solely responsible for the Spurs and DUncan's reputation. The Kings have never recovered! it's been like 20 years! Look at the people he's rescued from the Titanic...Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Phil, Pop. Very very strange. Nobody like him. DOn't make this about stats! There's nobody to compare him to! pistol pete would give up ALL his points to have 3 of those shots HOrry has made. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29281
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I remember his career fondly. All the way back to his HOU days.
Not many players could've found championship success on 3 different teams like he did.
But he's still not a HOFer. It's a tough list to make.
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ringfinger
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Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam Morrison has twice as many rings as Jerry West. HOF here we come! |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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If you can put Horry in, how do you not put Fisher in too?
The idea that Horry would be a HOF for a handful of albeit highly impactful plays is ridiculous.
The whole point of HOF is sustained success over time. |
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lakertang
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Location: Staples Center Boiler Room
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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As you're entering the Hall of Fame museum, there should be a lobby or at least a wall in the restroom, that has all the the great role players, or honorable mentions, with a small plaque and a picture, and their most famous play or contributions to the game. Then when you enter the REAL HALL, you'll see the all time greats, Jerseys, Game balls, trophies, et. al..
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Jellojigglin wrote: | | What are you people smoking he has 7 rings? He has more winning then most professional sports franchises. Big shot Bob is a damn NBA legend. There is no debate he will make it. |
Horry has been eligible for the Hall for four years, and people have been debating whether he deserves it or will make it for four years.
As far as I can make out, while there is a small minority that is passionate for his inclusion, the vast majority feels he doesn't have a shot. That said, unlike the baseball hall of fame, the basketball hall doesn't release any voting results, so we don't have any idea what level of support he has, if any, from the actual voters. I don't believe he's ever made the list of finalists though.
Of course, the Hall is fickled and secretive so who knows. Twenty years from now, the voting committee could be different and some of his cronies could get into power and push him through. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Of course, the Hall is fickled and secretive so who knows. Twenty years from now, the voting committee could be different and some of his cronies could get into power and push him through. |
Horry is not a Hall of Famer, but it wouldn’t offend me if the selection committee had a liquid lunch and voted him in. His resume is unique in the dictionary definition sense of the word. There is no other player like Horry. He was a journeyman role player who never won any leaguewide honor unless you count the glorified participation trophy called all-rookie second team. He was not even a particularly good shooter in the playoffs — .359 on threes and .546 TS% for his career. But he had moments, and he had them over and over again.
If he gets into the Hall some day, it’s not like it would open the floodgates for other role players. Horry would be a pink unicorn, the God Emperor of Statistical Outliers. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I remember badly wanting the team to upgrade the PF position in the late 90’s after Karl Malone and Tim Duncan (guys that are real HOF players btw) exposed the Lakers major weakness at the position.
The team picking up an aging Dennis Rodman in 1999 was made out of desperation because Horry simply wasn’t good enough.
I would have laughed if someone said Horry was a HOF player back then when he was in his prime. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: |
Ask Hakeem/Rudy, Kobe/Shaq/Phil and Duncan/Pop if they would swap Horry for prime TMac, Richmond and Joe Johnson on those teams...
There's your answer. |
I would swap Horry for a prime TMac on those Shaq/Kobe teams and I wouldn’t even blink when I do it. And Duncan, TMac, Parker and Ginobioi sounds incredible.
Last edited by Steve007 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Scoffs
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Horry was instrumental in that Spurs championship win vs the Pistons; they don't win without Horry's clutch shots in that game at Detroit. (Rasheed, you don't leave Horry open, ever!)
Lakers probably don't beat the Kings without Horry's shot.
Horry directly contributed to 2 championships; Fisher contributed in that Celtics series. I'd put them both in the HOF.
Honorable mention: Ariza killed Orlando but the lakers would've won without his contribution. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: |
Ask Hakeem/Rudy, Kobe/Shaq/Phil and Duncan/Pop if they would swap Horry for prime TMac, Richmond and Joe Johnson on those teams...
There's your answer. |
This is an unfair question because we already know the results. No one would ever take a title away.
Example: 1999-2002 Lakers. Which would you rather have:
1) Keep the team the way it is - and keep the threepeat; or
2) I'll let you swap out Sam Jacobson, Travis Knight, John Salley, and John Celestand for:
Hakeem, Jordan, LeBron, Tim Duncan and you play out all 3 seasons again.
Which would you rather have? Which would Kobe/Shaq/Phil rather have? |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Batguano wrote: |
Ask Hakeem/Rudy, Kobe/Shaq/Phil and Duncan/Pop if they would swap Horry for prime TMac, Richmond and Joe Johnson on those teams...
There's your answer. |
This is an unfair question because we already know the results. No one would ever take a title away.
Example: 1999-2002 Lakers. Which would you rather have:
1) Keep the team the way it is - and keep the threepeat; or
2) I'll let you swap out Sam Jacobson, Travis Knight, John Salley, and John Celestand for:
Hakeem, Jordan, LeBron, Tim Duncan and you play out all 3 seasons again.
Which would you rather have? Which would Kobe/Shaq/Phil rather have? |
Yeah it's dopey to ask, "Would you change a team that won a ring?"
But if you asked, "In their prime, on a team at the start of the season when you have no idea how they're going to do, would you rather have Horry or Tmac," I can't imagine a single coach or GM that would take Horry. |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4791
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Batguano wrote: |
Ask Hakeem/Rudy, Kobe/Shaq/Phil and Duncan/Pop if they would swap Horry for prime TMac, Richmond and Joe Johnson on those teams...
There's your answer. |
This is an unfair question because we already know the results. No one would ever take a title away.
Example: 1999-2002 Lakers. Which would you rather have:
1) Keep the team the way it is - and keep the threepeat; or
2) I'll let you swap out Sam Jacobson, Travis Knight, John Salley, and John Celestand for:
Hakeem, Jordan, LeBron, Tim Duncan and you play out all 3 seasons again.
Which would you rather have? Which would Kobe/Shaq/Phil rather have? |
Yeah it's dopey to ask, "Would you change a team that won a ring?"
But if you asked, "In their prime, on a team at the start of the season when you have no idea how they're going to do, would you rather have Horry or Tmac," I can't imagine a single coach or GM that would take Horry. |
Lol if we have Tmac, we don’t need all those clutch shots from Horry . We can cruise through out the regular season and stillhave the home court advantage throughout the Playoffs. Our bench was really thin during Shaq era. Those veterans were made for playoffs. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Scoffs wrote: | Horry was instrumental in that Spurs championship win vs the Pistons; they don't win without Horry's clutch shots in that game at Detroit. (Rasheed, you don't leave Horry open, ever!)
Lakers probably don't beat the Kings without Horry's shot.
Horry directly contributed to 2 championships; Fisher contributed in that Celtics series. I'd put them both in the HOF.
Honorable mention: Ariza killed Orlando but the lakers would've won without his contribution. |
Actually there is no way of knowing if the 2002 Lakers and 2005 Spurs win without Horry. Replace Horry with someone else and those three point shots might not be needed to win the game. Replace Horry with a real HOF player and those series might not even be close anymore.
Even if you assume Horry misses and the Spurs go down 3-2, games 6 and 7 were in San Antonio where they won the first 2. I wouldn’t count them out of the series. They weren’t just going to go home and give up in game 6 with their backs to the ball.
Horry also had a horrendous series in 2003 against the Spurs. He missed a three that would have put the Lakers up 3-2. In fact he missed almost everything in that series. He attempted 38 threes in that postseason and made 2 of them. This is a guy people think is a HOF player? 
Fortunately the next year he joined the Spurs, had a horrible series against the Lakers, and as a result helped the Spurs blow a 2-0 series lead and lose 4 straight.
I would rather put Artest in the HOF. I don’t think he belongs either but at least he played a much bigger role. And he had some major clutch moments against Phoenix and Boston in 2010. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how many serious discussions about Horry being a HOFamer have ever existed?
This is one. I wonder has there ever been another one? I know emply had one in his head.
Like when they referred to SA as the big 3 future HOFamers - did anyone correct themselves and say - ummm don’t you mean 4 future HOFamers?
If you were to refer to SA as having 4 future HOFamers, how many people would be able to pick out Horry as the 4th HOFamer? |
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Hammett
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:57 am Post subject: |
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If you watched the Lakers during the three peat years you'll remember power foward was one of our weakest positions. Horry held his ground against legends like Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Tim Duncan, etc. But he was never a #1 or #2 guy on the Lakers. Fox, Fisher, and Horry were the core supporting cast to mega stars Shaq and Kobe. Role players that did their job in a system and fed off the top dogs. We just remember Horry more because of the clutch shots and his titles with HOU and SA.
I love Horry and you don't just stumble onto 7 championships by accident, but he was a "right place, right time" kind of guy.
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