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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

He did qualify this:

“When I say we kick them, I don’t mean we do anything inappropriate, we don’t do anything illegal, but we have to be tough and we have to fight,” he said.

To which I approve.


Yeah, but it was an asinine choice of words that just plays into the GOP's hands. Dems have to be assertive and dedicated, but they also have to be smart more than anything. That comment was anything but.


What was an asinine choice of words: not doing anything inappropriate or illegal? Generally speaking, I agree the Dems should not do anything inappropriate such as lying or cheating, or, certainly, anything illegal. If I understood you correctly, and you believe they should, perhaps you can provide some examples so we are a bit clearer on what we are saying.


"Kick them".
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

All US presidents, including Obama, have had morally indefensible dealings with the Saudis, but this is an explicit statement that directly signals to despots that you can kill a journalist if you want to so long as you keep buying stuff that Trump can tout as a good deal.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Zero F**** given by POTUS

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/11/politics/trump-saudi-arabia-journalist-corker/index.html

Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Corker told CNN that the "intel points directly" to Saudi Arabia for the disappearance of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi and said the Saudis need to "produce" the 59-year-old father of four to dispel concerns.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

He did qualify this:

“When I say we kick them, I don’t mean we do anything inappropriate, we don’t do anything illegal, but we have to be tough and we have to fight,” he said.

To which I approve.


Yeah, but it was an asinine choice of words that just plays into the GOP's hands. Dems have to be assertive and dedicated, but they also have to be smart more than anything. That comment was anything but.


What was an asinine choice of words: not doing anything inappropriate or illegal? Generally speaking, I agree the Dems should not do anything inappropriate such as lying or cheating, or, certainly, anything illegal. If I understood you correctly, and you believe they should, perhaps you can provide some examples so we are a bit clearer on what we are saying.


"Kick them".


It's not that I disagree, he should have used other words to say Dems need to fight back, but...

We know there is a huge double-standard in the press where Republicans can get away with the most outrageous and perverse remarks, and the media doesn't react at all. But the right-wing-media-outrage machine will literally take ANYTHING a Democrat says and twist it, spin it and make it a mock-outrage to gin up their base.

So when we liberals "pile on" and help them beat up our side, we're doing their work for them. People aren't perfect. They don't say things perfectly. We can't hold our side to the standard of perfection while the other side can spew almost any garbage at us.

The message is Democrats need to fight back. And it will be messy. Being polite is easy. Fighting back is messy. We need to worry about motivating our side by making them feel that the Democratic leaders are fighting for them. We can't worry about the other side who is in a perpetual stage of outrage and victimhood. If a Democrat didn't say or do anything untoward, THEY WILL MAKE IT UP ANYWAY.

So, we can't be exactly like them, but we can't be walking on eggshells and afraid to fight them aggressively either. Even if that means it's not perfect.


Last edited by ChefLinda on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Zero F**** given by POTUS

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/11/politics/trump-saudi-arabia-journalist-corker/index.html

Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Corker told CNN that the "intel points directly" to Saudi Arabia for the disappearance of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi and said the Saudis need to "produce" the 59-year-old father of four to dispel concerns.


I'm sure you probably know this from reports last night, but it looks like the Saudis sent in an assassination team with a bone saw and dismembered him after they murdered him inside the embassy. Our intel overheard the "lure and kidnap" plan and the Turks knew of the Saudi team bringing a bone saw with them when they entered the country. There is video of him going in, but none of him coming out.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
governator wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Zero F**** given by POTUS

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/11/politics/trump-saudi-arabia-journalist-corker/index.html

Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Corker told CNN that the "intel points directly" to Saudi Arabia for the disappearance of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi and said the Saudis need to "produce" the 59-year-old father of four to dispel concerns.


I'm sure you probably know this from reports last night, but it looks like the Saudis sent in an assassination team with a bone saw and dismembered him after they murdered him inside the embassy. Our intel overheard the "lure and kidnap" plan and the Turks knew of the Saudi team bringing a bone saw with them when they entered the country. There is video of him going in, but none of him coming out.


Yeah, Bob Corker is a Republican by the way... this is insane (imagine you're a current US permanent resident, I'd be a little scared, POTUS basically saying US gov't won't protect you)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject:

If there was any karmic justice in the world, Trump and Kanye would be locked in a room together for eternity with no camera, no phones, no TV and no internet. Just two toxic, delusional, narcissists enjoying each others company.

Ye: I'm the chosen one.

Trump: No, I'm the chosen one.

Ye: My fans love me more.

Trump: No, my fans love me more. 6th Avenue!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:


Yeah, Bob Corker is a Republican by the way... this is insane (imagine you're a current US permanent resident, I'd be a little scared, POTUS basically saying US gov't won't protect you)


In Helsinki, Trump actually considered giving up a US citizen, a former US Ambassador, so that Russia could interrogate him. So, this should not be a shock.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
governator wrote:


Yeah, Bob Corker is a Republican by the way... this is insane (imagine you're a current US permanent resident, I'd be a little scared, POTUS basically saying US gov't won't protect you)


In Helsinki, Trump actually considered giving up a US citizen, a former US Ambassador, so that Russia could interrogate him. So, this should not be a shock.


Who do you think gave them the bone saw?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

According to new data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, worker wages have been essentially flat since the GOP tax bill was passed in December.

The average hourly wage for production and nonsupervisory employees crept up from $9.25 in August 2018 to $9.27 in September. However, the July figure matches numbers from the same month in 2017 — effectively meaning there was no growth from the year prior. From September 2017 to September 2018, real average hourly earnings did increase 0.4 percent, per the release.

https://thinkprogress.org/wage-growth-flat-after-trump-tax-cut-46ed96ece170/
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
If there was any karmic justice in the world, Trump and Kanye would be locked in a room together for eternity with no camera, no phones, no TV and no internet. Just two toxic, delusional, narcissists enjoying each others company.

Ye: I'm the chosen one.

Trump: No, I'm the chosen one.

Ye: My fans love me more.

Trump: No, my fans love me more. 6th Avenue!



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

He did qualify this:

“When I say we kick them, I don’t mean we do anything inappropriate, we don’t do anything illegal, but we have to be tough and we have to fight,” he said.

To which I approve.


Yeah, but it was an asinine choice of words that just plays into the GOP's hands. Dems have to be assertive and dedicated, but they also have to be smart more than anything. That comment was anything but.


What was an asinine choice of words: not doing anything inappropriate or illegal? Generally speaking, I agree the Dems should not do anything inappropriate such as lying or cheating, or, certainly, anything illegal. If I understood you correctly, and you believe they should, perhaps you can provide some examples so we are a bit clearer on what we are saying.


"Kick them".


It's not that I disagree, he should have used other words to say Dems need to fight back, but...

We know there is a huge double-standard in the press where Republicans can get away with the most outrageous and perverse remarks, and the media doesn't react at all. But the right-wing-media-outrage machine will literally take ANYTHING a Democrat says and twist it, spin it and make it a mock-outrage to gin up their base.

So when we liberals "pile on" and help them beat up our side, we're doing their work for them. People aren't perfect. They don't say things perfectly. We can't hold our side to the standard of perfection while the other side can spew almost any garbage at us.

The message is Democrats need to fight back. And it will be messy. Being polite is easy. Fighting back is messy. We need to worry about motivating our side by making them feel that the Democratic leaders are fighting for them. We can't worry about the other side who is in a perpetual stage of outrage and victimhood. If a Democrat didn't say or do anything untoward, THEY WILL MAKE IT UP ANYWAY.

So, we can't be exactly like them, but we can't be walking on eggshells and afraid to fight them aggressively either. Even if that means it's not perfect.

I think the Democrats need their own version of Karl Rove. They need a sound PR strategy for all their candidates, especially whoever their presidential candidate is in 2020, because it all comes down to marketing. Seems like the GOP has been MUCH better than the Dems in marketing themselves to Middle America (which is really what presidential elections come down to) even since Reagan ran for governor of California on a platform of sending "welfare bums" back to work. Look it up, Reagan literally used the phrase "welfare bums".

It's weird how in my lifetime (I'm an older millennial) Dems have won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections, and the majority of people in our nation support liberal policies and ideas, and yet these same people hate the Democratic party. As far as I can tell it comes down to how Dems market themselves and respond to the constant stereotyping and stigmatizing from the GOP.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Trump is no different than Obama or any other US President in this regard. He's just dumb enough to say it out loud. In a way it's a good thing, at least he's saying what the US government's official policy really is.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject:

Ted wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Trump is no different than Obama or any other US President in this regard. He's just dumb enough to say it out loud. In a way it's a good thing, at least he's saying what the US government's official policy really is.


Well, except that part the CL mentioned immediately above your response.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Ted wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Trump is no different than Obama or any other US President in this regard. He's just dumb enough to say it out loud. In a way it's a good thing, at least he's saying what the US government's official policy really is.


No. Trump calls journalists the enemy of the people, liars and evil. He is not only whipping people up at home, he is telling autocrats around the world they are free to do whatever they want to journalist because we won't interfere.

Obama never did that.
Bill Clinton never did that.

I''m tired of these both sides bogus arguments. None of the past presidents is perfect. But Trump's basic immorality is in another stratosphere.

I saw the video and it's even WORSE than the text because his disdain for even being asked the question comes through and he is blatantly dismissive of the idea that the death of this journalist is significant in any way, and it's clear he not bothered by it AT ALL.

It's okay to have a problem with Democratic presidents, but the credibility of your argument falls apart when you try to equate any of them to the current immoral, ignorant, unfeeling, shameless buffoon.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject:

more trump bs...

The Arms Deal That Never Was? Trump's $110 Billion Deal With Saudis Is 'Fake News,' Defense Expert Says
Former CIA officer and Brookings Institute fellow says no contracts were signed during Trump's visit to Kingdom, but instead a wish list compiled of deals already discussed under Obama

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-s-110b-deal-with-saudis-is-fake-news-says-defense-expert-1.5480979
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Hillary Clinton verified account @HillaryClinton

Seriously, you asked Russia to hack me on national television.


Quote:
NBC News Verified account @NBCNews
President Trump directly accused Hillary Clinton of engaging in a conspiracy with Russia to affect the 2016 election during a rally in Pennsylvania.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject:

@ribeye.....if you have a chance, take a look at this race per FiveThirtyEight.

FL-27 (FiveThirtyEight Link)

There is a lot of analytical data provided....and I am mostly just looking at the basic information. Still the site claims Shalala (D) has over a 76% chance of winning the seat over Salazar (R).

Simple facts:
- been a GOP seat for nearly 25 years (Ileana Ros-Lehtinen).
- majority Latino (Cuban American) population - Salazar is a well known Spanish speaking Cuban American famous for being a Correspondent for Telemundo and other Spanish language programming. In contrast, Shalala is not Latino, born in Cleveland and spent the majority of her life North of the Mason Dixon line.

Polls:
- Sept. 1-4 - Partisan Democrat Poll - Shalala +4
- Sept. 10-13 - Partisan Republican Poll - Salazar +9
- Oct. 1-6 - non-Partisan Poll (Mason Dixon) - Salazar +2

I notice at the bottom they are weighting factors such as money raised and generic ballot.....but I struggle to see how FiveThirtyEight justifies a "likely Dem" rating in this race. Democrats having an advantage in registered voters has been a fact while Ileana Ros-Lehtinen continued to hold this seat election after election.

I get these guys have forgot more about evaluating analytical data and developing models/projections than I will ever know, but damn it feels like they are overthinking it.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject:

Nancy Pelosi said today that if they win the House, the first thing they are going to do is get Trump's taxes. She said it's a very easy thing to do.

BUT NO ONE KNOWS THAT BECAUSE KANYE AND KID ROCK VISITED WHITE HOUSE TODAY AND THE MEDIA COVERED IT LIKE A STATE VISIT FROM THE QUEEN.

I know because I follow her on Twitter. But how do you get a message out in the crazy Trump 24/7 news cycle that features 10 crazy things per day?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
KID ROCK VISITED WHITE HOUSE TODAY


Bawitdaba da bang da bang diggy diggy diggy, Shake the boogie said up jump the boogie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:


I notice at the bottom they are weighting factors such as money raised and generic ballot.....but I struggle to see how FiveThirtyEight justifies a "likely Dem" rating in this race. Democrats having an advantage in registered voters has been a fact while Ileana Ros-Lehtinen continued to hold this seat election after election.

I get these guys have forgot more about evaluating analytical data and developing models/projections than I will ever know, but damn it feels like they are overthinking it.


My guess is that the factors you listed (money raised, generic ballot etc) are those that would impact the likelihood of the polling sample being representative of the likely make up of the population of actual voters come Nov. The factors are used to adjust the prediction accordingly. For e.g. money raised would imply more TV ads, which is likely to have the effect of encouraging more than the usual number of democrat voters to the polling booth. The idea is to reflect this in the sample composition.

Polls are only as good as the assumptions used in deciding the composition of their samples anyways. As they always say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

PS: Of course in the age of trump, money raised might not be a good predictor anymore. So I always takes polls with a grain of salt, since he seems to be able to defy conventional wisdom. More specifically, Trump is able to consistently get an incredible amount of campaign coverage for the republicans without spending a dime. Makes buying ads seem almost obsolete. As CL stated, its almost like he drowns everything else out.


Last edited by Vanquish on Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
paymonM wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michael-avenatti-offers-fight-donald-125002890.html

Michael Avenatti offers to fight Donald Trump Jr for charity


One of the reasons I wasn't wild about the idea people were floating around about him running in 2020.


very damaging to the democrats if he decides to run. It's fun watching him call junior a Buttercup, and even the offer to fight sounds entertaining, but if he decides to run for presidency, it will backfire.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject:

paymonM wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
paymonM wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michael-avenatti-offers-fight-donald-125002890.html

Michael Avenatti offers to fight Donald Trump Jr for charity


One of the reasons I wasn't wild about the idea people were floating around about him running in 2020.


very damaging to the democrats if he decides to run. It's fun watching him call junior a Buttercup, and even the offer to fight sounds entertaining, but if he decides to run for presidency, it will backfire.


No. It won't be "very damaging" if he runs. But it will be a pointless distraction.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 17951
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject:

Democrats don’t want our version of Trump.
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Turn your losses into lessons. - Mike "The Situation"
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