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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| The shot is falling so now it's time to start increasing the aggressiveness. Take control of the game on both ends. Drive to the hole with authority don't shy away from contact. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | Still driving me nuts when he drives all the way to the rim and doesn't look to score. He's got the size and the athleticism to finish. What's his deal and is ever going to get over it? |
Maybe not. Just like with his perimeter shooting eventually opening up driving lanes, he's going to need to show he can finish at the rim well enough to open the passing lanes he wants first.
The finishing at the rim was always his real issue coming out of college while bad analysts focused on his defense and perimeter shooting. It's going to take him longer to fix and he may never get good at it - he's not particularly explosive off one foot, he's stiff through the upper body, and he lacks creativity and touch around the rim.
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | Still driving me nuts when he drives all the way to the rim and doesn't look to score. He's got the size and the athleticism to finish. What's his deal and is ever going to get over it? |
Maybe not. Just like with his perimeter shooting eventually opening up driving lanes, he's going to need to show he can finish at the rim well enough to open the passing lanes he wants first.
The finishing at the rim was always his real issue coming out of college while bad analysts focused on his defense and perimeter shooting. It's going to take him longer to fix and he may never get good at it - he's not particularly explosive off one foot, he's stiff through the upper body, and he lacks creativity and touch around the rim. |
Restricted area stats:
2017-18: 80/167 48% (65% unassisted)
2018-19: 4/7 57% (75% unassisted)
There's definitely room for more improvement. And it needs to happen. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | Still driving me nuts when he drives all the way to the rim and doesn't look to score. He's got the size and the athleticism to finish. What's his deal and is ever going to get over it? |
Maybe not. Just like with his perimeter shooting eventually opening up driving lanes, he's going to need to show he can finish at the rim well enough to open the passing lanes he wants first.
The finishing at the rim was always his real issue coming out of college while bad analysts focused on his defense and perimeter shooting. It's going to take him longer to fix and he may never get good at it - he's not particularly explosive off one foot, he's stiff through the upper body, and he lacks creativity and touch around the rim. |
Restricted area stats:
2017-18: 80/167 48% (65% unassisted)
2018-19: 4/7 57% (75% unassisted)
There's definitely room for more improvement. And it needs to happen. |
Small sample size, but it's nice to see an early improvement there this year. Especially since that 48% last season is *woof!* terribad.
Looking at Kidd's career, he got shots at the rim at a higher volume than Zo has so far, but he was never a particularly good finisher in that range being right around 50-55% for most of his prime. I could live with that from Zo if he can get the volume up.
And we haven't seen his floater yet this season, which could be a real difference-maker for him long-term. Kidd never really got that shot down with any consistency.
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Fortysixn2
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Now that his shooing numbers look good the criticism is that he just doesn’t look that excited? Come on man...lol.
Ball is a nice young player who has some eite skills and has some other skills he needs to work on. He is looking great this season, if you are finding fault with him at this point it’s because you simply don’t like the kid. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Fortysixn2 wrote: | Now that his shooing numbers look good the criticism is that he just doesn’t look that excited? Come on man...lol.
Ball is a nice young player who has some eite skills and has some other skills he needs to work on. He is looking great this season, if you are finding fault with him at this point it’s because you simply don’t like the kid. |
The attitude concerns show posters don’t like him. Concerns regarding his hesitation going to the basket and attacking the paint are more than fair. His defense hasn’t been bad but he can definitely be more impactful on that end too. |
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ThreePointBomber
Star Player
Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 3234
Location: Inland Empire
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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UCLA Zo is still the better player because he actually gets the ball back. Too many times last year (and these 3 games as well) he passes it once and NEVER sees the ball again. UCLA Zo was throwing down oops and dunking on people. I feel that is a reason he isn't doesn't' really get an opportunity. There are people in this very thread complaining about Lonzo passing up two attempts at the rim(which is fair.) But ridiculous givven how little he actually gets to go to work on offense.
Lonzo is a smart player, we all know a this point in his career he is a poor free throw shooter(I blame this on low volume combined with confidence.)
I know he is still getting back from injury, and he has a pass first mentality, but boy. If Zo ever regains the confidence he had at Chino Hills/UCLA he will be a SCARY player. He already does so many things well, including little plays that don't end up on the stat sheet.
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scooterp10
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 961
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Fortysixn2 wrote: | Now that his shooing numbers look good the criticism is that he just doesn’t look that excited? Come on man...lol.
Ball is a nice young player who has some eite skills and has some other skills he needs to work on. He is looking great this season, if you are finding fault with him at this point it’s because you simply don’t like the kid. |
The attitude concerns show posters don’t like him. Concerns regarding his hesitation going to the basket and attacking the paint are more than fair. His defense hasn’t been bad but he can definitely be more impactful on that end too. |
Zo doesn’t show a lot of emotion facially, but I’ve noticed the confidence on the defensive end this year. Honestly, if we are not going to put the ball in his hands that much, then he needed to be on DeRozen last night. His length seemed to bother him the few times he switched on to him. Maybe they go there more as the season progresses and Lonzo gets his conditioning. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| VujacicForThree wrote: | UCLA Zo is still the better player because he actually gets the ball back. Too many times last year (and these 3 games as well) he passes it once and NEVER sees the ball again. UCLA Zo was throwing down oops and dunking on people. I feel that is a reason he isn't doesn't' really get an opportunity. There are people in this very thread complaining about Lonzo passing up two attempts at the rim(which is fair.) But ridiculous givven how little he actually gets to go to work on offense.
Lonzo is a smart player, we all know a this point in his career he is a poor free throw shooter(I blame this on low volume combined with confidence.)
I know he is still getting back from injury, and he has a pass first mentality, but boy. If Zo ever regains the confidence he had at Chino Hills/UCLA he will be a SCARY player. He already does so many things well, including little plays that don't end up on the stat sheet. |
That's the game changer for him, but it may take a few years, if it does come. He could sign a value second contract without the gaudy scoring totals, though.
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | Still driving me nuts when he drives all the way to the rim and doesn't look to score. He's got the size and the athleticism to finish. What's his deal and is ever going to get over it? |
Maybe not. Just like with his perimeter shooting eventually opening up driving lanes, he's going to need to show he can finish at the rim well enough to open the passing lanes he wants first.
The finishing at the rim was always his real issue coming out of college while bad analysts focused on his defense and perimeter shooting. It's going to take him longer to fix and he may never get good at it - he's not particularly explosive off one foot, he's stiff through the upper body, and he lacks creativity and touch around the rim. |
He was getting to the basket at will in summer league, but obviously those were straight line drives with wide open lanes that aren't available in the NBA. I think his footwork is bad and yeah he has bad touch around the basket. What I'd give for him to work with Kyrie or Steph in terms of creativity around the basket. |
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kobe_somebody_odom
Star Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:07 am Post subject: |
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My take is that Lonzo (probably smart) is not a player who likes taking hits to the ground.
He is Ok diving for lose balls (no injury risk) but does not like the risks of being hit while jumping. In some ways he is scared of the Josh Hart type finish at the rim where he hits the ground like a sack of potatoes after a defender kills him mid air.....but how long will Josh Hart last playing that way? Josh Hart also seems to be more flexible and falls much better than Lonzo probably does.
Just my .02,
My guess is he will develop a Lebron type strong (upper body) in 3-4 years where he is driving and unaffected by contact. But that bulk takes time to put on. I am encouraged by the first off-season however; his gains are far superior to his peers in size and bulk. |
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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| I am just glad that his shots are falling |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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He's pointlessly over-helping to start the season - the whole team is - and I don't know if that's by design, if he's allowed to freelance, or what.
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PauPau
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Joined: 12 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | I am just glad that his shots are falling |
Thats such a huge step for him and the team.
Lonzo has the nerve to keep it going, im confident. |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | Still driving me nuts when he drives all the way to the rim and doesn't look to score. He's got the size and the athleticism to finish. What's his deal and is ever going to get over it? |
Maybe not. Just like with his perimeter shooting eventually opening up driving lanes, he's going to need to show he can finish at the rim well enough to open the passing lanes he wants first.
The finishing at the rim was always his real issue coming out of college while bad analysts focused on his defense and perimeter shooting. It's going to take him longer to fix and he may never get good at it - he's not particularly explosive off one foot, he's stiff through the upper body, and he lacks creativity and touch around the rim. |
He was getting to the basket at will in summer league, but obviously those were straight line drives with wide open lanes that aren't available in the NBA. I think his footwork is bad and yeah he has bad touch around the basket. What I'd give for him to work with Kyrie or Steph in terms of creativity around the basket. |
His footwork is awkward and bad. That's his main issue driving to the hoop. I wonder if it's a confidence issue because he wasn't as awkward at UCLA. Shying away from contact instead of drawing the foul and getting 2 FTs. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | Still driving me nuts when he drives all the way to the rim and doesn't look to score. He's got the size and the athleticism to finish. What's his deal and is ever going to get over it? |
Maybe not. Just like with his perimeter shooting eventually opening up driving lanes, he's going to need to show he can finish at the rim well enough to open the passing lanes he wants first.
The finishing at the rim was always his real issue coming out of college while bad analysts focused on his defense and perimeter shooting. It's going to take him longer to fix and he may never get good at it - he's not particularly explosive off one foot, he's stiff through the upper body, and he lacks creativity and touch around the rim. |
He was getting to the basket at will in summer league, but obviously those were straight line drives with wide open lanes that aren't available in the NBA. I think his footwork is bad and yeah he has bad touch around the basket. What I'd give for him to work with Kyrie or Steph in terms of creativity around the basket. |
he''s 6'6 he doesnt need to work with the short guys. he needs to work with other 6'5 plus perimeter players that score well in traffic. like i said a few pages ago. he plays small when he's in the paint on offense, which is weird because on defense he plays big when he's in the paint. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | Still driving me nuts when he drives all the way to the rim and doesn't look to score. He's got the size and the athleticism to finish. What's his deal and is ever going to get over it? |
Maybe not. Just like with his perimeter shooting eventually opening up driving lanes, he's going to need to show he can finish at the rim well enough to open the passing lanes he wants first.
The finishing at the rim was always his real issue coming out of college while bad analysts focused on his defense and perimeter shooting. It's going to take him longer to fix and he may never get good at it - he's not particularly explosive off one foot, he's stiff through the upper body, and he lacks creativity and touch around the rim. |
He was getting to the basket at will in summer league, but obviously those were straight line drives with wide open lanes that aren't available in the NBA. I think his footwork is bad and yeah he has bad touch around the basket. What I'd give for him to work with Kyrie or Steph in terms of creativity around the basket. |
he''s 6'6 he doesnt need to work with the short guys. he needs to work with other 6'5 plus perimeter players that score well in traffic. like i said a few pages ago. he plays small when he's in the paint on offense, which is weird because on defense he plays big when he's in the paint. |
I agree but for a different reason. I think the Kyrie/Steph finishing is something you have to start developing at a young age which he clearly never did. He doesn’t have the natural touch necessary to do it. What he does have is size length and a strong frame that he’s beginning to fill out. Lavar says a lot of stupid (bleep) but when he said Lonzo will grow into a “Ball body” I think he was right. Learn how to bump off defenders and finish over and through them instead of learning how to do it with finesse. He doesn’t have the requisite skills/touch for that but he’s got the body and athleticism to still be a good finisher in other ways. |
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watchME
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 3384
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| We need to get nash to work with lonzo on his handles and shooting. I just think he has never had a guy like that teach him the essensials. |
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ItsJustMagic
Sixth Man
Joined: 07 Nov 2017
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| watchME wrote: | | We need to get nash to work with lonzo on his handles and shooting. I just think he has never had a guy like that teach him the essensials. |
Is it just me or have you slightly soften your stance on Lonzo? |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ItsJustMagic wrote: | | watchME wrote: | | We need to get nash to work with lonzo on his handles and shooting. I just think he has never had a guy like that teach him the essensials. |
Is it just me or have you slightly soften your stance on Lonzo? |
A guy that has Lonzo on the trade machine as his avi?
Maybe he wants Lonzo to improve to improve his trade value:) |
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LakesGnrLake
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 1296
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo has to be the second best player on the team if Lakers plan on making any noise. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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If Lonzo shoots one ugly shot, i.e. an airball, a game while shooting ~40% on 3s, I'll take it!  |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo and LBJ will pick your team apart with their passing. Wow.
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socalsp3
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3502
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Hate to see Zo stand in the corner with Lance dominating the ball. He needs reps even in garbage time |
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ingle
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 960
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Nice steps forward today for Lonzo, saw that bounce in his step returning on some plays.
I know this was the Suns but Lonzo fits the first unit much better than Rondo and the sooner he returns to the starting lineup the better. |
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