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Laker_Dynasty_01
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&TeamID=1610612747

^

Proof why Ingram/Ball should never be a starting defensive backcourt in the NBA. Look at the top 6 lineups in minutes played. Lonzo and BI cannot guard a team's lead ballhandler(s).

Fixing these bad combinations will solve most of our problems.


That link is not loading for me for some reason.


Doesn't work on my mobile device either.



------------------------------------------------GP-----MIN-----OFF-----DEF-----NET
L. James, .J. McGee, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma-9-----147-----102.7----108.4_-5.7

L. James, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart---10-----101------108.7----100.4_8.2

L. James, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma-7-----90------100.5----110.8_-10.3

L. James, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .K. Kuzma-5---89-----101.5----110.9_-9.4

J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma----6---81-----101.1----114.0_-12.9

L. James, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball----5-----79-----101.7-----110.6_-8.9

J. McGee, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart-------8-----61-----102.8-----100.7_2.1

L. James, .J. McGee, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart-----8-----61-----105.8---102.1_3.7

L. James, .J. McGee, .L. Ball, .J. Hart--------9-----54-----103.2-----96.1_7.1

.L. James, .R. Rondo, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram-6----44-----108.5-----95.3_13.2
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Staccatos
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&TeamID=1610612747

^Proof why Ingram/Ball should never be a starting defensive backcourt in the NBA. Look at the top 6 lineups in minutes played. Lonzo and BI cannot guard a team's lead ballhandler(s).

Fixing these bad combinations will solve most of our problems.

This can still be a 50-win team.


I also think BI should stick more at 3 than 2. As for Lonzo, the Lonzo/Hart lineup is a + one. So I think Lonzo/Hart should be the Lakers starting backcourt.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612747&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*l.%20ball

Shortened link: https://on.nba.com/2Ozec0a

It's actually the only 2 man combo where Lonzo gets a net +
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&TeamID=1610612747

^

Proof why Ingram/Ball should never be a starting defensive backcourt in the NBA. Look at the top 6 lineups in minutes played. Lonzo and BI cannot guard a team's lead ballhandler(s).

Fixing these bad combinations will solve most of our problems.


That link is not loading for me for some reason.


Doesn't work on my mobile device either.



------------------------------------------------GP-----MIN-----OFF-----DEF-----NET
L. James, .J. McGee, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma-9-----147-----102.7----108.4_-5.7

L. James, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart---10-----101------108.7----100.4_8.2

L. James, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma-7-----90------100.5----110.8_-10.3

L. James, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .K. Kuzma-5---89-----101.5----110.9_-9.4

J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma----6---81-----101.1----114.0_-12.9

L. James, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball----5-----79-----101.7-----110.6_-8.9

J. McGee, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart-------8-----61-----102.8-----100.7_2.1

L. James, .J. McGee, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart-----8-----61-----105.8---102.1_3.7

L. James, .J. McGee, .L. Ball, .J. Hart--------9-----54-----103.2-----96.1_7.1

.L. James, .R. Rondo, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram-6----44-----108.5-----95.3_13.2



Here you go...


Code:

GP...MIN...OFF......DEF......NET
09...147...102.7...108.4...-05.7 L. James, .J. McGee, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma
10...101...108.7...100.4...+08.2 L. James, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart
07...090...100.5...110.8...-10.3 L. James, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma
05...089...101.5...110.9...-09.4 L. James, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .K. Kuzma
06...081...101.1...114.0...-12.9 J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma
05...079...101.7...110.6...-08.9 L. James, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram, .L. Ball
08...061...102.8...100.7...+02.1 J. McGee, .L. Ball, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart
08...061...105.8...102.1...+03.7 L. James, .J. McGee, .K. Kuzma, .J. Hart
09...054...103.2...096.1...+07.1 L. James, .J. McGee, .L. Ball, .J. Hart
06...044...108.5...095.3...+13.2 L. James, .R. Rondo, .J. McGee, .B. Ingram

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cathy78
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject:

there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA
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Staccatos
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject:

cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.
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chekmatex4
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Multiple conflicts to work around

* Start Ingram else coming off the bench will crater his potential trade value

* Ingram appears to not fit as well with LeBron as Kuzma does on offense

* Start Kuzma to keep the offense flowing with LeBron

* Kuzma and LeBron might not be the strongest duo on defense

* Neither Kuzma or Ingram are close to ideal as a SG

* Neither Kuzma or Ingram are close to ideal as a Small Ball Center


This is a good summary of the issues. I think Lakers should start following players:

PG: Lonzo, SG: Hart, SF: Ingram, PF: Lebron, C: McGee. This is probably our strongest two-way team.

For more offense, take Lonzo out for Kuzma: PG: Hart, SG: Ingram, SF: Lebron, PF: Kuzma, C: McGee.

Key bench players are Rondo, Kuzma, Chandler. Possibly bring in Svi for shooting and Wagner for more offense at the C spot. It was tough shifting Kuzma to the bench but he needs to work out his defensive issues.

Lonzo/Rondo and Chandler/McGee are generally interchangeable based on who has the hot hand/playing well that night.

I'd also like to see Ingram get some minutes without Lebron on the floor to work on his playmaking.
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levon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Best 5 man lineup by net rating in 50 minutes played is Lebron, McGee, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball. And it's not hard to see why. If D'Antoni was our coach, that lineup would be starting every game.
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levon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Then you could have Rondo, KCP/Svi, Lance, BI, and Chandler/Wagner off the bench.

Not sure how it'd work with BI, but Rondo + KCP + Lance have a netrating of +5 so far.
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Outspoken
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Staccatos wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.


Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Best 5 man lineup by net rating in 50 minutes played is Lebron, McGee, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball. And it's not hard to see why. If D'Antoni was our coach, that lineup would be starting every game.


If you’re right, that would be one of the few times I agree with Dantoni. Been preaching for this lineup since we first saw it.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
levon wrote:
Best 5 man lineup by net rating in 50 minutes played is Lebron, McGee, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball. And it's not hard to see why. If D'Antoni was our coach, that lineup would be starting every game.


If you’re right, that would be one of the few times I agree with Dantoni. Been preaching for this lineup since we first saw it.


I'd be down with this lineup too.

Hart and Zo are hopefully our starting back court for years...might as well get them going now.
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levon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
levon wrote:
Best 5 man lineup by net rating in 50 minutes played is Lebron, McGee, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball. And it's not hard to see why. If D'Antoni was our coach, that lineup would be starting every game.


If you’re right, that would be one of the few times I agree with Dantoni. Been preaching for this lineup since we first saw it.

Shooting + spacing, mostly switchable, high pace, vertical threat.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
levon wrote:
Best 5 man lineup by net rating in 50 minutes played is Lebron, McGee, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball. And it's not hard to see why. If D'Antoni was our coach, that lineup would be starting every game.


If you’re right, that would be one of the few times I agree with Dantoni. Been preaching for this lineup since we first saw it.

Shooting + spacing, mostly switchable, high pace, vertical threat.


I hear ya
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Best 5 man lineup by net rating in 50 minutes played is Lebron, McGee, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball. And it's not hard to see why. If D'Antoni was our coach, that lineup would be starting every game.


Yup! Luke is too damn stubborn or stupid to make that our starting lineup permanently and run them together for majority of the game including closing out games.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.


Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee.


No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
levon wrote:
Best 5 man lineup by net rating in 50 minutes played is Lebron, McGee, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball. And it's not hard to see why. If D'Antoni was our coach, that lineup would be starting every game.


If you’re right, that would be one of the few times I agree with Dantoni. Been preaching for this lineup since we first saw it.


I'd be down with this lineup too.

Hart and Zo are hopefully our starting back court for years...might as well get them going now.


The problem with the Lebron/Kuzma starting lineup is that's both the PFs. So if you play Lebron/Kuzma together for 24 minutes then you need 24 backup PF minutes. So you either maybe Lebron and Kuzma each play 36 minutes (12 additional minutes each) a night rain or shine or you have someone who isn't a PF play those minutes like Hart....

High 30 minutes might be okay for a few games, but you'll wear out your players over an entire season. But based on how Luke runs his players, yeah he looks like he wants to run them into the ground a la D'Antoni.
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Mamba Mentality
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.


Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee.


No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it.


+1 Better defensive lineup too because Ingram isn't getting beat by shooting guards. A lot of our defensive lapses are from this kind of penetration to the lane.
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Staccatos
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject:

JeezyXVII wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Luke creating "culture" while Rick Pitino actually coached the team as Lead Assistant could take this group places.


Luke needs to find someone like Kerr did whos a defensive specialist, a legit defensive minded heach coach. Right now, Keefe is in charge and its not looking pretty.

Their giving players 3-4 feet of space to opperate. Switching on players all game instead of going iso at times.

Over-aggressively playing their man after getting blown by or after a pick and bumping into them on shots.

Very disorganized and out of wack.


Bring in Frank Vogel as defensive coach.

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He's be a really strong defensive add. The data lines up with the eye test on that part.Cranjis McBasketball added,
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@T1m_NBA What do you think of Frank Vogel as an addition to Luke's staff?
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject:

If Vogel is down we should jump at the chance to add him to Luke's staff.
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oaktown_dimond
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject:

i wonder what Rondo thinks of Luke's assistants? i'm betting he's a better X's and O's guy than any of them?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.


Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee.


No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it.


Data also shows that we are better with LeBron sitting. Also it's not a big enough sample size with Zo, Hart, BI, james, and McGee to even talk about data. BI right now is out of his right position, guarding shooting guards and points (when he isn't picking up other players on switches). Watching the game Kuz isn't that good at defense and it disrupts the team defense because others have to pick up his man. Kuzma isn't shooting the ball from the 3 that well this season, Brandon Ingram is actually shooting better from behind the arch and Brandon Ingram does everything else better than Kuz, at 21. Kuz is 23 and spent more time developing in college. Kuz should be our Ginobili off the bench.


Last edited by Outspoken on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lakersfan8
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.


Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee.


No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it.

How about the defense though? For example if we play against the Spurs, you want to see hart defending DeRozan again?
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.


Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee.


No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it.


Data also shows that we are better with LeBron sitting. Also it's not a big enough sample size with Zo, Hart, BI, james, and McGee to even talk about data. Watching the game Kuz isn't that good at defense and it disrupts the team defense because others have to pick up his man. Kuzma isn't shooting the ball from the 3 that well this season, Brandon Ingram is actually shooting better from behind the arch and Brandon Ingram does everything else better than Kuz, at 21. Kuz is 23 and spent more time developing in college. Kuz should be our Ginobili off the bench.


Y’all have fallen into the trap of thinking a 6th man of the year type player is somebody who strictly puts up a lot of points. You’re misunderstanding how those guys get their points. They are often guys who dominate the ball, that isn’t Kuz, it’s BI. IT, Crawford, Manu, Lamar etc they are guys who like having the ball but usually aren’t good enough to be the primary option in a good first unit. They are given a second unit to utilize their ability to carry an offense. BI has that ability, Kuz doesn’t. Kuz is an off ball spot up shooter who is an excellent cutter and the best on the team at attacking close outs. That’s what fits perfectly with LeBron. I understand the defensive concerns but the lineup with Hart instead of Ingram has still been one of our best defensive ones by the numbers. Ingram will be BETTER in the second unit and will be able to fill a more natural role. Still play him 30ish minutes but a lot with the second unit. Luke needs to make this change ASAP.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
there is worse...
https://on.nba.com/2qAUiIA


Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.

You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though.


Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee.


No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it.


Data also shows that we are better with LeBron sitting. Also it's not a big enough sample size with Zo, Hart, BI, james, and McGee to even talk about data. Watching the game Kuz isn't that good at defense and it disrupts the team defense because others have to pick up his man. Kuzma isn't shooting the ball from the 3 that well this season, Brandon Ingram is actually shooting better from behind the arch and Brandon Ingram does everything else better than Kuz, at 21. Kuz is 23 and spent more time developing in college. Kuz should be our Ginobili off the bench.


Y’all have fallen into the trap of thinking a 6th man of the year type player is somebody who strictly puts up a lot of points. You’re misunderstanding how those guys get their points. They are often guys who dominate the ball, that isn’t Kuz, it’s BI. IT, Crawford, Manu, Lamar etc they are guys who like having the ball but usually aren’t good enough to be the primary option in a good first unit. They are given a second unit to utilize their ability to carry an offense. BI has that ability, Kuz doesn’t. Kuz is an off ball spot up shooter who is an excellent cutter and the best on the team at attacking close outs. That’s what fits perfectly with LeBron. I understand the defensive concerns but the lineup with Hart instead of Ingram has still been one of our best defensive ones by the numbers. Ingram will be BETTER in the second unit and will be able to fill a more natural role. Still play him 30ish minutes but a lot with the second unit. Luke needs to make this change ASAP.


I think there is a great argument for BI to come off the bench...Ball Handling and Iso Scoring.

And there's a great argument for Kuz to come off the bench...his defense is hot kitty crap 85% of the time, he's lost on D and doesn't offer any rebounding.

What we can all agree on is that Hart needs to be a starter along side Zo.

I personally think our best lineup will be Zo, Hart, BI, Bron, Tyson

Which gives us Rondo, Kuz, Javale, KCP, and one of Svi, Moe, Lance or even Beasy to pick up the extra minutes.

We start doing that and I think we are a top 4 team in the West by season's end.
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durden-tyler
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:28 am    Post subject:

We won 3 of the last 4, I doubt Luke will change anything, but I'd prefer Hart in the lineup instead of Kuzma.
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