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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Still have faith in Lonzo but we clearly chose the wrong #2 pick to dump salary  |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Just posted this in the other draftees thread but thought it might be good for some discussion.
| Quote: | Just for fun, I went back and pulled all the draftees from the 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons. I sorted them by career VORP.
I also removed any players who have not met the following criteria:
- Minimum of HALF the seasons played per season average (so for 2015 players, that would be 140 games, for 2016 players that would be 100 games, and so on)
- Minimum of 20.0 MPG average over their career
I think we can safely assume any player who has not played in at least half of games in which they are eligible, and in those games, play at least 20 MPG, are ineligible for comparison. Here's what I got:
2015 Draftees - Career VORP (16 of 60 players eligible)
Karl-Anthony Towns
Myles Turner
Larry Nance
Josh Richardson
Willie Cauley-Stein
Kristaps Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Justise Winslow
Frank Kaminsky
Devin Booker
Stanley Johnson
Andrew Harrison
Kelly Oubre
Jahlil Okafor
Emmanuel Mudiay
2016 Draftees - Career VORP (14 of 60 players eligible)
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam
Malcolm Brogdon
Buddy Hield
Jamal Murray
Caris LeVert
Domantas Sabonis
Kris Dunn
Taurean Waller-Prince
Denzel Valentine
Jaylen Brown
Marquese Chriss
Dragan Bender
Brandon Ingram
Tyler Ulis
2017 Draftees - Career VORP (17 of 60 players eligible)
Jayson Tatum
Donovan Mitchell
Lonzo Ball
John Collins
Jarrett Allen
Bam Adebayo
Josh Hart
OG Anunoby
Kyle Kuzma
Jonathan Isaac
Lauri Markkanen
Dennis Smith
Justin Jackson
De'Aaron Fox
Dillon Brooks
Frank Ntilikina
Josh Jackson |
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Organized highest to lowest? |
Yes sir. |
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Lonzo-Lite
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Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 5090
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: Re: The Hype and Expectations of our #2 Picks (via Magic Johnson) |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: |
Magic on Lonzo Ball:
| Quote: | - "He's the new face of the Lakers, the guy who I think will lead us back to where we want to get to."
- "We expect a Ball jersey hanging up there one day."
- "He has greatness written all over him. Now he just has to go out and push him, and we will, too."
- "You have to have a great leader, somebody that can make their teammates better, somebody who has incredible basketball IQ -- his IQ is off the charts -- and somebody who can get their teammates to follow them and want to get out on that wing like Worthy and Byron and Cooper used to do back in the day. We feel like we have that person right here in Lonzo Ball."
- "Don't break all my records! Just leave me one or two okay?" |
Magic on Brandon Ingram:
| Quote: | - "I would say probably the only player that we would say we would probably not move is Brandon Ingram. We're excited about what he can possibly turn into." (when asked if there were any untouchables on the team)
- "Ingram's been practicing so hard all summer long. I told him, 'If you don't average 20 points a game, I'm going to be disappointed.'" (when asked about expectations on Ingram in his 2nd year)
- “I think the star in the making, and playing with LeBron is going to help him, is Brandon Ingram. He's big time. He's has the length, he has the size, he has the basketball IQ." (when asked which young player will be a star alongside LeBron)
- “It’s got to be Brandon Ingram because every year he’s taken a step forward. He’s gotten better and better and he has the game to score 20 points a night." (when asked again who the next Lakers' star will be) |
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I don’t think both are good at handling pressure and expectations placed on them. They might be better served being players with a chip on their shoulder.
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29286
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
If we're living in the hypothetical. Adding Durant to the current roster trumps anything else proposed.
The hypothetical world is a pleasant place to live. Detached from reality. But pleasant nonetheless.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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AFireInside619
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
Stop being a defensive baby. The fact is the FO chose the wrong 2 of our lottery picks to keep and that is probably going to cost us. Their trade value right now is too low to net back a superstar and the odds of getting KD, KL, or Klay are super slim. It's not Dlo and Randle over Bron that is some BS you just made up to make your argument seem better. We would still sign Lebron but instead of Zo and BI we'd have JR and Dlo.
We could have EASILY gotten Kuzma even if we didn't trade Dlo. That is not an issue, it's only a straw man created by proponents of the Dlo trade. I would have traded the #2 pick (Zo) with Moz and taken back the Net's pick AND a future 1st. |
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32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73063
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
Well said. It's really difficult to go back and unravel everything the FO did. The bottom line the FO got the Lakers to this point. They are a playoff contender this year. They were in 4th seed until Lebron got hurt. They have flexibility to make trades and have saved $38M in cap space. They are in a healthy position going forward.
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16143
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
Stop being a defensive baby. The fact is the FO chose the wrong 2 of our lottery picks to keep and that is probably going to cost us. Their trade value right now is too low to net back a superstar and the odds of getting KD, KL, or Klay are super slim. It's not Dlo and Randle over Bron that is some BS you just made up to make your argument seem better. We would still sign Lebron but instead of Zo and BI we'd have JR and Dlo.
We could have EASILY gotten Kuzma even if we didn't trade Dlo. That is not an issue, it's only a straw man created by proponents of the Dlo trade. I would have traded the #2 pick (Zo) with Moz and taken back the Net's pick AND a future 1st. |
DLo and Randle are free agents this year. We can sign them as free agents. So maybe the mistake is not signing them this summer? |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
Stop being a defensive baby. The fact is the FO chose the wrong 2 of our lottery picks to keep and that is probably going to cost us. Their trade value right now is too low to net back a superstar and the odds of getting KD, KL, or Klay are super slim.
We could have EASILY gotten Kuzma even if we didn't trade Dlo. That is not an issue, it's only a straw man created by proponents of the Dlo trade. |
And stop being a whiny baby. DLO is gone. Randle is gone. They aren’t coming back. And still no one has answered the cap space issue. We needed to unload Moz to get Lebron. The Nets wanted DLO and the front office had to do something to make that happen. Plus Ball was about to be drafted, so I can understand why they saw DLO expendable. And no we couldn’t have EASILY gotten Kuzma. He could EASILY be in a Nets uniform right now. I’m sorry if you can’t or refuse to comprehend any of my points. Just as long as you can get your whining in I guess.
Plus Ingram and Ball have been disappointing, but when they flourish somewhere else you’ll be crying about that too. |
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akk7
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3013
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
The bolded isn’t true at all. Had to call you out on that.
Correct me if I’m wrong I thought we had room for one max even with Moz’s contract on the books? Moving Moz’s contract was done to make room for a second max?
And we had the 28th pick. There was a report that the Nets weren’t taking Kuzma with the 27th pick. But you’re right that’s speculation.
But yea crying over Dlo and Randle isn’t necessary. They’re doing well, but not well enough to get all up in arms. I just find it funny the same people who would whine about the previous regime and previous moves like not signing IT or Whiteside are telling people to stop crying about the past when it comes to this regime’s moves. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
What do you mean your argument is based on fact? The claim that we wouldn't have had Kuzma, if we didn't trade DLO, is not a fact. It's an assumption.
It's also an assumption, that the only way to move Moz's contract was by including DLO. It's possible other options were available. That's what we're discussing.
But yeah, I do get your point in that, what's really the point in discussing hypotheticals. There's no right answer. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| akk7 wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
The bolded isn’t true at all. Had to call you out on that.
Correct me if I’m wrong I thought we had room for one max even with Moz’s contract on the books? Moving Moz’s contract was done to make room for a second max?
And we had the 28th pick. There was a report that the Nets weren’t taking Kuzma with the 27th pick. But you’re right that’s speculation.
But yea crying over Dlo and Randle isn’t necessary. They’re doing well, but not well enough to get all up in arms. I just find it funny the same people who would whine about the previous regime and previous moves like not signing IT or Whiteside are telling people to stop crying about the past when it comes to this regime’s moves. |
I think you are right. Even if we kept Moz, we would have had room for 1 max. After all, we were going after PG13 AND Lebron this offseason so the inclusion Moz would have meant one instead of both.
So the statement of DLO or Randle or Lebron is not correct. We could have had DLO, Lebron, but then we would not have Rondo/KCP/Lance/Beas most likely. |
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AFireInside619
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| akk7 wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
The bolded isn’t true at all. Had to call you out on that.
Correct me if I’m wrong I thought we had room for one max even with Moz’s contract on the books? Moving Moz’s contract was done to make room for a second max?
And we had the 28th pick. There was a report that the Nets weren’t taking Kuzma with the 27th pick. But you’re right that’s speculation.
But yea crying over Dlo and Randle isn’t necessary. They’re doing well, but not well enough to get all up in arms. I just find it funny the same people who would whine about the previous regime and previous moves like not signing IT or Whiteside are telling people to stop crying about the past when it comes to this regime’s moves. |
Look it up. I created a poll right after DLO was traded, asking if we would regret the trade like OKC regrets trading Harden. Most people laughed at it. He was by far my favorite Laker. But he’s gone and I refuse to be a Nets fan. But call me out all you want, you’ll just be wrong.
DLO is having a great season. Better than Ball and Ingram. But remember what Ball and Ingram did to him last year at Staples. They locked DLO up. And Ingram and Ball will be good players someday, just not on the Lakers. And we’ll all be regretting that too. |
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ReaListik
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 6553
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: |
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It’s that you have Magic Johnson, who you would hope has actually researched the player he drafts, goes on to tout a player as being the one to take the mantle of being the next great Laker. It matters what Magic and Rob say because they are the talent evaluators. Magic didn’t have to go into the records being broken and all the pomp and circumstance, he could have just said, “I think player X has potential to be successful in this league.” But when he basically says player X is going to be legendary and implies HoF quality with his compliments, it is disappointing to see the player look very pedestrian consistently. We don’t get to see these players before they reach the NBA in the same talent evaluative manner that the FO does. Either Magic was totally and purposely full of bs when pumping up Lonzo, in which case I as a fan don’t want a bs’er anywhere near this team, or he actually believed his words in which case it’s been very disappointing to see Ingram and Lonzo’s progress to say the least. Their play have been nowhere close to the evaluations of Magic. I could see if expectations are set high at superstar level, but player X reaches all star status instead or is on the verge of all star status, but they’re not quite at franchise player level. Magic has essentially said players X and Y are going to be legendary but they end up being questionable in proficiency even as role players and show no signs of potentially being great. You have to have talent evaluators that know what they’re talking about and are trustworthy in what they say.
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16143
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I'm trying to differentiate between this thread and the other thread about our no. 2 picks.
"The Hype and Expectations of our #2 Picks (via Magic Johnson)"
"We had three number two picks in three straight drafts"
Can someone explain to me the subtle differences and when should I post in one vs. the other? |
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AshesToAshes
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Unsure the reason for the post originally but, are we trying to fault him for propping up the young guys?
As the for #2 pick convo... can't just swap them in and out and ignore bron and kuz (our 2 best players now).
Dlo? trade anyone onto the nets and they will "look" twice as good as here.
Randle? a big getting 20/9 is big $$ contract. But next to AD who's not happy at all and still a sub .500 team is the reason i'll miss him but never want him back.
So as a snapshot, bron and kuz makes the moves correct. The rest is just master-baiter material - like debating ABynum back in the day as the future of this franchise by ignoring reality of the situation.
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matrixskillz
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 7502
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Outta sight! 
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"I GOT WHEATIES!" |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | I love these posts. They always seem to surface after our team has a tough stretch (just like EVERY team in the league suffers at some point during the season). Nobody was complaining when we looked great (when healthy) and kicked the crap out of the Warriors. We are very shorthanded, so what did anyone expect. Everyone seems to become ROBO GM's when things are bad. I would like to remind some of where we were just a couple of years ago and where we are today. Now Magic gets hammered because he hyped up teenagers. What did anyone expect him to say: "We drafted this kid, but he sucks and will not have a prosperous career. We took him to help us in our pursuit of the tank." Come on folks. Get a grip. Its a GREAT time to be a Laker fan, and things are only going to be better. Don't let a few bad losses because we are extremely shorthanded derail you. |
The measure of a person's character is best realized in times of peril.
Who these Lakers are is revealed during trying times, and we are seeing what they are. It's always easy when you win, but no team always wins, so I need to see what my young players do when they lose...and so far, I'm not impressed.
There are three types of fans; bandwagoners, who know little about the game, but watch only because it's trendy to do so. Cheerleaders, who are pie in the sky, everything will be just fine types, often ignoring reality in the process. And analyzers, people like me who strongly desire championships and question/challenge players who fail to contribute to that. I'm cool with all sorts of fans; each has their merit, but I'm not backing away from critiquing my Lakers when there is clearly something wrong. |
You forgot the fourth type: the “I think I know a lot but I’m really just a bellyacher” fan.
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Kobesystem
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Dec 2018
Posts: 641
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
We could of had PG13, DLO and this summer Leonard. I don't really miss Randle, but if Lebron was not a laker, I would not be surprised if PG13 would of been and Leonard as well this summer....
SO, Leonard + PG13 > Lebron |
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hydrohead
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 4108
Location: Space City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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They played to Magic’s expectation tonight.
Keep bringing it boys. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobesystem wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | How much better would our team be right now if we swapped Lonzo for Dlo and Ingram for Randle? |
Then we wouldn’t have Kuzma or the cap space for Lebron. Start a petition to resign DLO and Randle if it’s so important to everyone who’s living in the past. |
Not entirely true. We could have traded for a pick if we really wanted Kuzma, or not drafted Hart/Thomas and drafted Kuzma instead with the #30. It's within the realm of plausibility. |
Yeah, it was definitely possible to do it like that. For some reason that poster got really defensive, it was just a hypothetical.
In my opinion we would be better with Dlo and Randle over Zo and Ingram, the FO made the wrong decision with them. |
I loved DLO as a Laker. But how many times are we gonna hear the same (bleep) over and over again? It gets very old.
And I love it when people say we could have just got Kuzma later. Like they had a crystal ball or something. My argument is based on facts. The other is based on assumption. Kuzma also said he worked out for the Nets and the Spurs and they were both very interested in him.
And no one seems to mention the cap space issue. If we still had Moz, we would have no money for Lebron.
And if anyone here feels we’re better off with DLO or Randle over Lebron, you are nuts. |
We could of had PG13, DLO and this summer Leonard. I don't really miss Randle, but if Lebron was not a laker, I would not be surprised if PG13 would of been and Leonard as well this summer....
SO, Leonard + PG13 > Lebron |
You’re lining for a guy who didn’t want to be a Laker and another who may want to join the Clips?
All the while not wanting a guy who took a major leap of faith to join the Lakers?
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