Should Lakers start FLOPPING? (Update: The Official NBA Refs twitter chimes in - pg. 2)
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:16 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CabinCreek44 wrote:
Simply put, the NBA is a business and relies heavily on TV exposure. Therefore, much like Hollywood, they need "stars", and they are very much in the business of helping to craft them.

This dates back to the 70s when CBS began heavily hyping "The Doctor" and "The Mountain Man", on into the 80s with "The Magic Man", "The Hick From French Lick", "The Round Mound of Rebound", etc. Then NBC shot it into deep space in the 90s with Jordan, who became "The Greatest Player of All Time", and absolutely ZERO debate was tolerated on that subject.

In today's game, look no further than James Harden's teammate, Chris Paul, who the league's TV partners hilariously dubbed "The Closer" some years back (it was also, not coincidentally, a nice tie-in to a TNT series of the time that had the same title). At the risk of seeming impolite, what, exactly, has Chris Paul ever "closed", besides his own team, in a playoff series? If the nickname had been bestowed upon one of the real superstar closers across the years that had closed people down in the NBA Finals, then the nickname would have been appropriate.

Once upon a time, the stars would simply avail themselves. But in today's non-stop hyper-competitive media world, the NBA has decided that they can't sit around and waste time waiting for things like that to happen.

Someone could probably write a book on something like this, but the bottom line is the NBA is of course not just a sport, it's a business, and a "sports and entertainment" business to boot. It's not enough to just have one or two transcendent players...today I would name them LeBron James and Steph Curry...no, the league feels it has to have as many as possible, even if they haven't quite yet earned that status. Of course all of this is just my opinion.

James Harden is an excellent offensive basketball player, he can take people off the dribble and he can shoot from distance. He's smart, tough and strong and can absorb contact and finish the play. The league can easily hype him with no problem at all, but for some reason the officials seem to feel under pressure to put this guy on the free throw line ad nauseum, even when he is clearly hurling himself into the defender and then falling over as if he's been shot.

If the zebras had been engaged in this sort of malpractice in the old days, a defender(s) would have casually wandered over to one of them and said something along the lines of "if you keep putting this guy on the line when he's the one creating all the contact and then throwing himself to the floor, I'm going to put something on him that will require medical attention", and the refs probably would have gotten the message. But of course you can't do that now.

It's all part of the TV show now. Harden is one of the league's chosen ones, and the players have to adjust as best they can. It's frustrating for the players and coaches, to say the least, but that's their problem. Everybody's being paid handsomely for their efforts. On with The Show...



I don't believe anyone in the NBA decided, "We need to make James Harden a star, so we're going to have the refs call games in a way that he gets a lot of free throws."

I think the real answer is that Harden is simply a great student of the game, and he's got a knack for positioning his body in a way that he gets fouled, or contact is perceived as fouls from the refs angles.
NONSENSE.

Why is it that anyone who watches these games can see him throwing his body into the defender but the refs can't? dont give me that " they have a different angle on the court" talk. because they also have to watch tape on themselves. this means they've been watching tape of themselves getting FOOLED(as you probably believe) into going for the harden throw his body into the other guy move time and time again. at some point a ref would matchup what he sees on video with what he thought he saw in real life and start noticing some cues on the real life court that can tell him if harden is creating the contact and flopping. if you can't figure that out by now. you're either a horrible ref that needs to be fired from the nba OR you were instructed to call games in this manner for specific players or for Star players.

if you think harden is smart by studying the nba and how to manipulate officials. then what is lou will? he must be a genius.

Because there is a difference between sweet Lou and james harden. even on camera lou williams knows how to Make the defender foul him. while james harden is trying to Fool the refs into believing he's being fouled. there's a difference there.. one guy is actually being fouled the other isnt.


Well, we know it isn't because they are being instructed to make those calls in Harden's favor.

It would make no sense. No one pays money so they can see players on the FT line.
so then lets go with the next option. They are horrible at their jobs at the nba level. which means....they need to get new refs that can do a much better job.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject:

Nahhh. I don't think its the refs being horrible at their jobs. I mean sure, there are blown calls both ways in basically every game but in a fast paced sport you're going to have some of that as a function of human error.

If it was purely just bad calls, then, Harden wouldn't be what is essentially the lone beneficiary of them and we'd see more players with huge FT totals. But it's just a few players with Harden leading the way for guards.

If there is any blame to be cast, it's on the league office who are the ones that wanted "touch" fouls to be called to promulgate a more offensively oriented game. They wanted less fouls via less defense being able to be played. They got what they wanted. Less personal fouls called and less FT attempts this year vs 10 and 20 years ago in spite of possessions being up.

So most players might be enjoying the fact that can play more unimpeded, but, Harden is taking advantage by pressing for contact vs taking advantage of the greater freedom. It's annoying -- but it's smart.
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LakersRGolden
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:04 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Nahhh. I don't think its the refs being horrible at their jobs. I mean sure, there are blown calls both ways in basically every game but in a fast paced sport you're going to have some of that as a function of human error.

If it was purely just bad calls, then, Harden wouldn't be what is essentially the lone beneficiary of them and we'd see more players with huge FT totals. But it's just a few players with Harden leading the way for guards.

If there is any blame to be cast, it's on the league office who are the ones that wanted "touch" fouls to be called to promulgate a more offensively oriented game. They wanted less fouls via less defense being able to be played. They got what they wanted. Less personal fouls called and less FT attempts this year vs 10 and 20 years ago in spite of possessions being up.

So most players might be enjoying the fact that can play more unimpeded, but, Harden is taking advantage by pressing for contact vs taking advantage of the greater freedom. It's annoying -- but it's smart.



I don't think it's refs being bad at their jobs as a whole ( there's a few really bad refs). They get feedback on each call, so either they are universally ignoring negative feedback about how Harden is officiated or its being re-enforced, coming from the officiating office. It appears to be systematic.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
I don't think it's refs being bad at their jobs as a whole ( there's a few really bad refs). They get feedback on each call, so either they are universally ignoring negative feedback about how Harden is officiated or its being re-enforced, coming from the officiating office. It appears to be systematic.


We can be pretty sure that it is the latter. There have been a number of occasions over the last couple years when the Rockets were one of the teams in a last two minute report. We can see the grades. We know that the league's graders are not giving negative feedback about calls on Harden, at least not the kind of calls that people complain about. On the contrary, the officials are calling the game the way that they have been instructed. Harden is just exploiting the rules.

This should be obvious. There is no reason why James Harden, of all people, would get some special treatment from the league. Harden has elevated drawing fouls to an artform. We may not like it, but the real question is why other players are not doing the same thing. It's not like NBA players are too proud to claim cheap free throws. If other players started doing the same thing, there would be pressure to change the rules or at least the rule interpretations. But instead FTAs leaguewide are at an historic low.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject:

Not sure I've ever seen 3 defensive 3 seconds/illegal d called on one team in the same game. Not sure I've ever seen that called in the last 2-3 minutes of the 4th either.

Iman Shumpert literally threw himself into BI and BI got hit with a blocking call.

I know we've been the beneficiary of a lot of favorable officiating over the years so there's nothing for us to complain about. But it does suck seeing a James Harden, who's never won anything, live at the FT line for flopping.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Not sure I've ever seen 3 defensive 3 seconds/illegal d called on one team in the same game. Not sure I've ever seen that called in the last 2-3 minutes of the 4th either.

Iman Shumpert literally threw himself into BI and BI got hit with a blocking call.

I know we've been the beneficiary of a lot of favorable officiating over the years so there's nothing for us to complain about. But it does suck seeing a James Harden, who's never won anything, live at the FT line for flopping.


It only sucks when it's not on your team. When it is on your team (i.e. Shaq/Kobe), it's pretty awesome.
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DLaker
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:17 pm    Post subject:

Harden is pretty strong, so it takes a lot to knock him down.

{video}How slow reaction

I hope the ref get the idea of how officiate him cause if he fall down like a tons of brick its a flop.

{video}Flop city
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dna.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject:

Not sure where to put this so I'm going to just leave it here

Quote:
NBA referees will answer questions about calls in real time over Twitter in a selection of games for the rest of the season, starting with two games next week.

During Monday's Golden State Warriors at Los Angeles Lakers game on TNT and Wednesday's San Antonio Spurs at Philadelphia 76ers game on ESPN, fans can tweet @OfficialNBARefs or use the hashtag #RefWatchParty to get responses from officials who are watching the game.

...

This season, the NBA league office has agreed to work in collaboration with the referee union on this project. As part of the deal, the tweeting referees will have access to the league's replay center in Secaucus, New Jersey, just like the officials who are on duty that evening, so they can have all the angles available to answer questions.

The union and the NBA plan a series of these games over the next few months, including some playoff games.


source

Light em up Laker Nation!
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VicXLakers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject:

dna. wrote:
Not sure where to put this so I'm going to just leave it here

Quote:
NBA referees will answer questions about calls in real time over Twitter in a selection of games for the rest of the season, starting with two games next week.

During Monday's Golden State Warriors at Los Angeles Lakers game on TNT and Wednesday's San Antonio Spurs at Philadelphia 76ers game on ESPN, fans can tweet @OfficialNBARefs or use the hashtag #RefWatchParty to get responses from officials who are watching the game.

...

This season, the NBA league office has agreed to work in collaboration with the referee union on this project. As part of the deal, the tweeting referees will have access to the league's replay center in Secaucus, New Jersey, just like the officials who are on duty that evening, so they can have all the angles available to answer questions.

The union and the NBA plan a series of these games over the next few months, including some playoff games.


source

Light em up Laker Nation!


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