College Admissions Scandal
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Cutheon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject:

Looked into H/Y -- seems like figures used to be higher, apparently they have reduced their transfer slots for CC students. As for credits -- not sure, but *some* do apply, if not all. In any event, it's certainly doable and I'm sure more than a few students have done so successfully.

As to the UC's --- historically, IVC feeds into UCI. SBCC feeds into UCSB. SD has a couple - SDCC, SDMC. I think Berkeley's is Berkeley City College. I don't remember UCLA's, but I *think* Cypress...maybe? Lots of CC's feed into UCLA. UCR has Riverside City College. There are various programs that directly feed CC kids into those UC's, -- look up TAG -- but even without those programs, historically the UC's I've listed above have excellent relationships with those CC's, such that it is an open secret that if you attend one and do well you'll get into the "sister" UC.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject:

^One of the main CC's that feed into UCLA would be SMC (Santa Monica College).
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
^One of the main CC's that feed into UCLA would be SMC (Santa Monica College).


Yes, that was the main one I was thinking of but couldn't remember. Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
Looked into H/Y -- seems like figures used to be higher, apparently they have reduced their transfer slots for CC students. As for credits -- not sure, but *some* do apply, if not all. In any event, it's certainly doable and I'm sure more than a few students have done so successfully.

As to the UC's --- historically, IVC feeds into UCI. SBCC feeds into UCSB. SD has a couple - SDCC, SDMC. I think Berkeley's is Berkeley City College. I don't remember UCLA's, but I *think* Cypress...maybe? Lots of CC's feed into UCLA. UCR has Riverside City College. There are various programs that directly feed CC kids into those UC's, -- look up TAG -- but even without those programs, historically the UC's I've listed above have excellent relationships with those CC's, such that it is an open secret that if you attend one and do well you'll get into the "sister" UC.


Only indirectly -- and I say this as someone who's responsible for the business analytics for one UC, and previously worked in student transfer on behalf of all of California for 20+ years.

Local affinity does exist - many students want to go to a school that's close to home, and for those going the CC route that affinity is stronger for multiple reasons. In addition, the articulation agreements are more robust between the UCs and their primary (by volume) feeders, and many CCs tune their curriculum to ensure that they offer the lower division coursework that articulates to the specific lower division requirements for their local UC and CSU campuses -- but again, this is due to the CCs catering to need based on the volume of transfers they generate. But to imply that this means there's some secret about admissions preference being given to students from local "sister" CCs is just wrong.

And I have plenty of data to back it up.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Looked into H/Y -- seems like figures used to be higher, apparently they have reduced their transfer slots for CC students. As for credits -- not sure, but *some* do apply, if not all. In any event, it's certainly doable and I'm sure more than a few students have done so successfully.

As to the UC's --- historically, IVC feeds into UCI. SBCC feeds into UCSB. SD has a couple - SDCC, SDMC. I think Berkeley's is Berkeley City College. I don't remember UCLA's, but I *think* Cypress...maybe? Lots of CC's feed into UCLA. UCR has Riverside City College. There are various programs that directly feed CC kids into those UC's, -- look up TAG -- but even without those programs, historically the UC's I've listed above have excellent relationships with those CC's, such that it is an open secret that if you attend one and do well you'll get into the "sister" UC.


Only indirectly -- and I say this as someone who's responsible for the business analytics for one UC, and previously worked in student transfer on behalf of all of California for 20+ years.

Local affinity does exist - many students want to go to a school that's close to home, and for those going the CC route that affinity is stronger for multiple reasons. In addition, the articulation agreements are more robust between the UCs and their primary (by volume) feeders, and many CCs tune their curriculum to ensure that they offer the lower division coursework that articulates to the specific lower division requirements for their local UC and CSU campuses -- but again, this is due to the CCs catering to need based on the volume of transfers they generate. But to imply that this means there's some secret about admissions preference being given to students from local "sister" CCs is just wrong.

And I have plenty of data to back it up.


This reminds me that I had one snag in my experience as a transfer student. After I graduated from UCSB, I received a letter from the University that upon review, I was missing one lower division credit because a US History class I took at CC was not an approved class. Guess where I retook the class post graduation to qualify? The same CC. True story.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Looked into H/Y -- seems like figures used to be higher, apparently they have reduced their transfer slots for CC students. As for credits -- not sure, but *some* do apply, if not all. In any event, it's certainly doable and I'm sure more than a few students have done so successfully.

As to the UC's --- historically, IVC feeds into UCI. SBCC feeds into UCSB. SD has a couple - SDCC, SDMC. I think Berkeley's is Berkeley City College. I don't remember UCLA's, but I *think* Cypress...maybe? Lots of CC's feed into UCLA. UCR has Riverside City College. There are various programs that directly feed CC kids into those UC's, -- look up TAG -- but even without those programs, historically the UC's I've listed above have excellent relationships with those CC's, such that it is an open secret that if you attend one and do well you'll get into the "sister" UC.


Only indirectly -- and I say this as someone who's responsible for the business analytics for one UC, and previously worked in student transfer on behalf of all of California for 20+ years.

Local affinity does exist - many students want to go to a school that's close to home, and for those going the CC route that affinity is stronger for multiple reasons. In addition, the articulation agreements are more robust between the UCs and their primary (by volume) feeders, and many CCs tune their curriculum to ensure that they offer the lower division coursework that articulates to the specific lower division requirements for their local UC and CSU campuses -- but again, this is due to the CCs catering to need based on the volume of transfers they generate. But to imply that this means there's some secret about admissions preference being given to students from local "sister" CCs is just wrong.

And I have plenty of data to back it up.


That's fair, but it seems like the thrust of your post is the same as mine: whether it is due to curriculum matching or locality, if you were giving advice to a prospective CC student that very badly wanted to transfer to a specific UC, the best advice would be to choose whichever CC feeder is closest.

In any event, there is a reason IVC became the go-to CC for students wanting to attend UCI, and it's because of its location and relationship with UCI. Ultimately, I think both things are true: IVC feeds into UCI because it has done an excellent job catering to UCI's preferences, and UCI likes to take IVC students because, well, they attended IVC and UCI knows they prepare their students for success at the next level.

And, to be totally clear, I never stated that the admissions preference was reliant on one simply attending the school. All i stated is that if you attend the right sister CC, and do well, you are a virtual lock for admission. Whether it's because of locality - which I didn't state outright but I understand why my post was interpreted that way -- or the "excellent relationship" between the two schools, which you substantiated as including curriculum matching and strong (m?)atriculation agreements, -- thanks very much for that, btw -- the fact remains: want to go to UCI...probably best to go to IVC.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I would assume if you have 500K to throw around just to get your kid in the door, you would not have to go through some black market fraud scheme like this for USC. Just call up a few higher ups about the donation you are giving, let some time pass, and then tell them your kid is applying.


Come on. This is USC. If you can provide a preschool transcript stating that you never peed on yourself in class then a positive admissions letter will be in the offing.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
That's fair, but it seems like the thrust of your post is the same as mine: whether it is due to curriculum matching or locality, if you were giving advice to a prospective CC student that very badly wanted to transfer to a specific UC, the best advice would be to choose whichever CC feeder is closest.


It's multifactoral. Not all CCs are the same quality, just as not all high schools are of the same quality. In fact, there have been cases where CCs have been disaccredited (Compton College being one example). So yeah, the better schools tend to be better feeders to the UC system. Regional affinity means that distance is a factor. So the best feeders to a given UC campus are the good schools that are close. But that doesn't mean that BECAUSE you choose to go to that particular school you stand any better chance (other than that you're choosing to go to a better school). The fact that the CC curriculum is a better match to the UC campus lower-division requirements has an effect on the ease of finishing your degree, but it doesn't affect admissions decisions. I know you're not intentionally saying this, but you appear to me to be mixing a priori with a posteriori.

Quote:
In any event, there is a reason IVC became the go-to CC for students wanting to attend UCI, and it's because of its location and relationship with UCI. Ultimately, I think both things are true: IVC feeds into UCI because it has done an excellent job catering to UCI's preferences, and UCI likes to take IVC students because, well, they attended IVC and UCI knows they prepare their students for success at the next level.


Coincidentally, just this afternoon I had an extended meeting with UCI's Admissions director and others in their office, about some of their processes. It is NOT true that UCI "likes" to take students from any particular school for ANY particular reason. Their decision making is neutral, but it's true that IN ARREARS you can say that a large proportion of students come from its primary feeders, due to the reasons I discussed above.

In fact, I know it's true that what UCI "likes" has nothing to do with it because the ranking is farmed out to a third-party analytics firm (Maguire Associates) specifically to help remove any bias and improve objectivity in its cohort selection.

Quote:
And, to be totally clear, I never stated that the admissions preference was reliant on one simply attending the school. All i stated is that if you attend the right sister CC, and do well, you are a virtual lock for admission. Whether it's because of locality - which I didn't state outright but I understand why my post was interpreted that way -- or the "excellent relationship" between the two schools, which you substantiated as including curriculum matching and strong (m?)atriculation agreements, -- thanks very much for that, btw -- the fact remains: want to go to UCI...probably best to go to IVC.


I did mean "articulation" and not "matriculation" as you suggested. Matriculation refers to the student. Articulation refers to courses and requirements in general.

That said, what you suggested in this last paragraph is rather reductive. Go to ANY good school, do well, and apply to a UC (especially a mid-tier one like Irvine, and especially one that a transfer student destination like Irvine) and you're likely to be admitted. That doesn't mean (a priori) that I should pick WHICH good college to go to in order to affect my chances; it only means (a posteriori) that there will be disproportionate representation among certain schools when looking in arrears at an aggregate cohort.

I'll repeat -- if you're a single individual looking to get into UCI, then FOR ADMISSION PURPOSES it doesn't matter WHICH Community College you choose, but the quality of that Community College DOES matter. But that's not to say you won't have an easier path to graduation (affecting retention, graduation rates and time-to-degree) if you choose a specific CC like IVC.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
Looked into H/Y -- seems like figures used to be higher, apparently they have reduced their transfer slots for CC students. As for credits -- not sure, but *some* do apply, if not all. In any event, it's certainly doable and I'm sure more than a few students have done so successfully.

As to the UC's --- historically, IVC feeds into UCI. SBCC feeds into UCSB. SD has a couple - SDCC, SDMC. I think Berkeley's is Berkeley City College. I don't remember UCLA's, but I *think* Cypress...maybe? Lots of CC's feed into UCLA. UCR has Riverside City College. There are various programs that directly feed CC kids into those UC's, -- look up TAG -- but even without those programs, historically the UC's I've listed above have excellent relationships with those CC's, such that it is an open secret that if you attend one and do well you'll get into the "sister" UC.


Only indirectly -- and I say this as someone who's responsible for the business analytics for one UC, and previously worked in student transfer on behalf of all of California for 20+ years.

Local affinity does exist - many students want to go to a school that's close to home, and for those going the CC route that affinity is stronger for multiple reasons. In addition, the articulation agreements are more robust between the UCs and their primary (by volume) feeders, and many CCs tune their curriculum to ensure that they offer the lower division coursework that articulates to the specific lower division requirements for their local UC and CSU campuses -- but again, this is due to the CCs catering to need based on the volume of transfers they generate. But to imply that this means there's some secret about admissions preference being given to students from local "sister" CCs is just wrong.

And I have plenty of data to back it up.


This reminds me that I had one snag in my experience as a transfer student. After I graduated from UCSB, I received a letter from the University that upon review, I was missing one lower division credit because a US History class I took at CC was not an approved class. Guess where I retook the class post graduation to qualify? The same CC. True story.
lol what? if thats the case, you probably should have provided UCSB a copy of the summary page in the catalog for that year you took the original class, showing its description. then going to UCSB's catalog for the year you graduated, and pulling up the same course description. If it's identical(which is most likely is. i mean its history. history aint changed much(sure they do find new old things to add in that were not known prior) lol.


But nowadays they have computer systems that clearly show you the exact courses that translate, there is no more haggling if you've taken one of those courses at your local city college thats listed on their transfer system.

Rules, question for you. when you say they sent you a letter AFTER you graduated. did you mean, after you walked the stage? Or after you were in possession of a degree, and where you could pull up your transcript and it read your completion date and degree date?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
lol what? if thats the case, you probably should have provided UCSB a copy of the summary page in the catalog for that year you took the original class, showing its description. then going to UCSB's catalog for the year you graduated, and pulling up the same course description. If it's identical(which is most likely is. i mean its history. history aint changed much(sure they do find new old things to add in that were not known prior) lol.


That's not how it works, unfortunately. There are two artifacts: The Transfer Course Agreement (TCA) establishes what courses are taught at a level where they are deemed to be UC transferable (or CSU transferable). Then the articulation agreement is the contract between the two schools about how the course can be used in lieu of other courses or to meet lower division requirements. (And separately, CSU GE and IGETC agreements detail how they can be used to meet GE requirements). Just looking at a course description isn't good enough, because there are about 50 factors that go into it -- even if the text of the catalog description IS identical. There are lots of pedagogical factors.

BTW, students have catalog rights to graduation requirements (IE, if you enter a school in 2018-19, then you get to complete the 2018-19 graduation requirements, even if the graduation requirements change before you graduate. However, there are NO catalog rights to articulation.

Quote:
But nowadays they have computer systems that clearly show you the exact courses that translate, there is no more haggling if you've taken one of those courses at your local city college thats listed on their transfer system.


Well, except for everything I mentioned above, yes. BTW, I was the architect of the system you mentioned.

Quote:
Rules, question for you. when you say they sent you a letter AFTER you graduated. did you mean, after you walked the stage? Or after you were in possession of a degree, and where you could pull up your transcript and it read your completion date and degree date?


Walking at graduation is just ceremonial. The degree actually confers sometime later, and there are checks that happen in the meantime. Most likely, this was flagged in one of those checks.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
splashmtn wrote:

Quote:
Rules, question for you. when you say they sent you a letter AFTER you graduated. did you mean, after you walked the stage? Or after you were in possession of a degree, and where you could pull up your transcript and it read your completion date and degree date?


Walking at graduation is just ceremonial. The degree actually confers sometime later, and there are checks that happen in the meantime. Most likely, this was flagged in one of those checks.



Exactly what I happened. I had my ceremony at Spring Graduation. A good few months later, I got the notification letter stating what the issue was. I appealed, but after some clarification from the university, apparently the history class I transferred with was not approved, even though it was a credit used to qualify for transfer. I was told that if I retook the history class as it currently was offered, I would have the appropriate credits. Since it was a good 4 or so years after I had taken it the first time, I had assumed that the curriculum had been corrected or updated in some way that was more satisfying the university.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject:

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USC

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Updated information on the College Admissions Issue:

• USC has placed holds on the accounts of students who may be associated with the alleged admissions scheme; this prevents the students from registering for classes or acquiring transcripts while their cases are under review


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• These students have been notified that their status is under review
• Following the review, we will take the proper action related to their status, up to revoking admission or expulsion

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject:

UCLA soccer coach in admissions scandal resigns

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UCLA men's soccer coach Jorge Salcedo has resigned following his indictment last week for allegedly taking payments totaling $200,000 as part of an extensive college admissions and testing bribery scheme, the school confirmed Thursday.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
UCLA soccer coach in admissions scandal resigns

Quote:
UCLA men's soccer coach Jorge Salcedo has resigned following his indictment last week for allegedly taking payments totaling $200,000 as part of an extensive college admissions and testing bribery scheme, the school confirmed Thursday.


LINK


I see an IRS audit in this man's future but he'll probably coach professionally again somewhere.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject:

Hot Pockets Heiress, Vineyard Owner in Court in College Admissions Scheme

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A Hot Pockets heiress, a Napa Valley winemaker and a former Wynn Resorts executive were among the parents who faced a judge in Boston federal court Friday for allegedly bribing their children's way into elite universities as part of a nationwide college cheating scandal.


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Clearly.....the news here is there was someone out there known as the "Hot Pockets heiress".
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
focus wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Being a parent of a high school senior, my wife, daughter and I have been weighing options while watching other parents go through the process. It's been eye opening to me watching all the needless stress, effort and expense people spend on a decision and process that is nowhere near as life defining as some people have convinced themselves it is . . .
So what alternative mindset or set of values are you hoping your daughter embraces in in this context, specifically, to avoid this needless stuff, or what are you trying exactly to teach her for this stage?


After much discussion and soul searching, my daughter has elected to take some time and go the route of community college to get her general ed out of the way while she figures out what she wants to do and where. Then in a couple of years will transfer to a university with a better sense of navigating her path.

It's the way I did it and it worked out very well for me.


I did the same and it worked out incredibly well for me. Transferred to UCLA and eventually graduated at the top of my class. Now I’m going to Columbia for grad school. Good luck to your daughter.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Attending SMC and being part of the scholars program makes it much easier to transfer to UCLA, I just wanted to put this out there for those discussing it. Must have a minimum gpa of 3.5 and you’ll almost be guaranteed admission.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject:

LORI LOUGHLIN & FELICITY HUFFMAN
ANY PLEA DEAL WILL HAVE PRISON ATTACHED


Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman could cut plea bargains if they want 'em -- but they wouldn't be getting off easy ... because prosecutors want prison time, TMZ has learned.

Federal law enforcement sources tell TMZ, any plea would come with a recommendation by prosecutors that the actresses serve some time behind bars. The official told us, "You can't have people being treated differently because they have money. That's how we got to this place. Every defendant will be treated the same."


We'll see about that.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LORI LOUGHLIN & FELICITY HUFFMAN
ANY PLEA DEAL WILL HAVE PRISON ATTACHED


Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman could cut plea bargains if they want 'em -- but they wouldn't be getting off easy ... because prosecutors want prison time, TMZ has learned.

Federal law enforcement sources tell TMZ, any plea would come with a recommendation by prosecutors that the actresses serve some time behind bars. The official told us, "You can't have people being treated differently because they have money. That's how we got to this place. Every defendant will be treated the same."


We'll see about that.


What a joke. Definitely a good example of the state of our judicial system.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman could cut plea bargains if they want 'em -- but they wouldn't be getting off easy ... because prosecutors want prison time, TMZ has learned.

Federal law enforcement sources tell TMZ, any plea would come with a recommendation by prosecutors that the actresses serve some time behind bars. The official told us, "You can't have people being treated differently because they have money. That's how we got to this place. Every defendant will be treated the same."

Why the heck are federal law enforcement officials talking to TMZ about anything?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject:

focus wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman could cut plea bargains if they want 'em -- but they wouldn't be getting off easy ... because prosecutors want prison time, TMZ has learned.

Federal law enforcement sources tell TMZ, any plea would come with a recommendation by prosecutors that the actresses serve some time behind bars. The official told us, "You can't have people being treated differently because they have money. That's how we got to this place. Every defendant will be treated the same."

Why the heck are federal law enforcement officials talking to TMZ about anything?


trump likes to stick his nose in where it doesn't belong...

Justice Department Warns Academy Over Potential Oscar Rule Changes Threatening Netflix

https://variety.com/2019/politics/news/doj-oscar-rules-changes-netflix-1203178413/

looking like Barr will jump through any hoop trump asks him to.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject:

focus wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman could cut plea bargains if they want 'em -- but they wouldn't be getting off easy ... because prosecutors want prison time, TMZ has learned.

Federal law enforcement sources tell TMZ, any plea would come with a recommendation by prosecutors that the actresses serve some time behind bars. The official told us, "You can't have people being treated differently because they have money. That's how we got to this place. Every defendant will be treated the same."

Why the heck are federal law enforcement officials talking to TMZ about anything?


I know TMZ has the tabloid reputation, but they have grown into an actual news gathering agency of significant and mostly reputable note. Hell, they broke the story of the OBL raid in Pakistan.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
focus wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman could cut plea bargains if they want 'em -- but they wouldn't be getting off easy ... because prosecutors want prison time, TMZ has learned.

Federal law enforcement sources tell TMZ, any plea would come with a recommendation by prosecutors that the actresses serve some time behind bars. The official told us, "You can't have people being treated differently because they have money. That's how we got to this place. Every defendant will be treated the same."

Why the heck are federal law enforcement officials talking to TMZ about anything?


trump likes to stick his nose in where it doesn't belong...

Justice Department Warns Academy Over Potential Oscar Rule Changes Threatening Netflix

https://variety.com/2019/politics/news/doj-oscar-rules-changes-netflix-1203178413/

looking like Barr will jump through any hoop trump asks him to.


Not sure Trump would be the guy championing the effort to go aggressively after wealthy white people engaging in scandal. Not really the ball of yarn he wants to unwind, regardless of the intended target of that first yank on the ball.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:53 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman could cut plea bargains if they want 'em -- but they wouldn't be getting off easy ... because prosecutors want prison time, TMZ has learned.


I saw this reported earlier today, and was really surprised. Have you heard any "sentence lengths" mentioned? The good news for them is it would likely be a minimum security Federal prison camp....which sucks, but is nothing like a State Penitentiary.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject:

Felicity Huffman, 13 others to plead guilty in U.S. college admissions scandal: prosecutors

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Actress Felicity Huffman and 13 other people have agreed to plead guilty to participating in what prosecutors call the largest college admissions scam uncovered in U.S. history, federal prosecutors said on Monday.


LINK
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