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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Do you think Wiggin's averages 4.1 APG with Zion?
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Kansas doesn't even run an NBA offense. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | #1 in untradeable.
I think #2 has a lot of value, Morant is a cash cow at worst. Not a big fan of Barrett. Stiff athlete and no play-making ability. Wiggins type with better motor. Not bad but not franchise-changing. |
Barrett seems to be a willing passer with good vision.
Wiggins averaged 1.5 APG.. Barrett 4.1 APG.
4.1 APG is very respectable in CBB, especially for a non-pg. Barrett also averaged 4.6 APG in FIBA. |
Barrett has adequate court vision...maybe even good court vision....his problem is trust in his teammates. Much of this year, he will only pass to Zion or Cam....if they are not open, he jacks up a bad shot. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | #1 in untradeable.
I think #2 has a lot of value, Morant is a cash cow at worst. Not a big fan of Barrett. Stiff athlete and no play-making ability. Wiggins type with better motor. Not bad but not franchise-changing. |
Im convinced you haven't watched Barrett play. He has a developed body, but he's not a stiff at all LOL. And he absolutely has playmaking ability. He needs to invoke that part of his game more, but he has a scorer mentality.
The Wiggins comparison is weird especially since you called him stiff. |
High-usage, low efficiency, poor 3pt shooter. Both have avg handles at best. Sub-par defensively. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | #1 in untradeable.
I think #2 has a lot of value, Morant is a cash cow at worst. Not a big fan of Barrett. Stiff athlete and no play-making ability. Wiggins type with better motor. Not bad but not franchise-changing. |
Im convinced you haven't watched Barrett play. He has a developed body, but he's not a stiff at all LOL. And he absolutely has playmaking ability. He needs to invoke that part of his game more, but he has a scorer mentality.
The Wiggins comparison is weird especially since you called him stiff. |
High-usage, low efficiency, poor 3pt shooter. Both have avg handles at best. Sub-par defensively. |
Yet still incredibly productive.
Imagine if he sorts out a couple things. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | #1 in untradeable.
I think #2 has a lot of value, Morant is a cash cow at worst. Not a big fan of Barrett. Stiff athlete and no play-making ability. Wiggins type with better motor. Not bad but not franchise-changing. |
Im convinced you haven't watched Barrett play. He has a developed body, but he's not a stiff at all LOL. And he absolutely has playmaking ability. He needs to invoke that part of his game more, but he has a scorer mentality.
The Wiggins comparison is weird especially since you called him stiff. |
High-usage, low efficiency, poor 3pt shooter. Both have avg handles at best. Sub-par defensively. |
I would argue he has displayed poor shot selection more so than being a poor shooter. The shot looks fine to me.
We will never know, but I would like to hear Coach K's thoughts on his "High-usage, moderate efficiency" game, because much of it appears to be part of the scheme. Duke leans on Barrett with the ball much more than Zion....is that by design or does Coach K just accept RJ being selfish? I do not see Coach K going crazy or reprimanding Barrett when he plays selfishly. Barrett is just more capable than Zion and Cam on the perimeter, and Duke does not have a lot of dynamic perimeter players on this roster. There is a world where Barrett is allowed to just do what he does best, and is a much more efficient player.
We have seen Barrett for years....high school, in International play, and now at the highest levels in college. He clearly has NBA All Star potential....and is going to have a 10-15 year NBA career. I love Morant....I have talked him up for most of the year....but I am still taking Barrett @ #2.
Last edited by adkindo on Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Wiggins lacks work ethic and has a very low basketball IQ, Comparing RJ to Wiggs is very disrespectful. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: |
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The Lebrons wrote: | adkindo wrote: | if Bryce Brown (PG Auburn) was a little taller......he is 6'3", but to me he clearly is a SG in a PG body. He can shoot and defend well....maybe work with a tall/longer PG in the back court? |
These days of "is he too short to play the 2?" are over. If you can guard 1s and shoot, there is a place for you in the league (I don't know if he can, just a general point). You don't need to be a "PG", there's plenty of guards and wings that create for their teams. |
I am not saying you are wrong, but I personally disagree in that I strongly feel positional size matters. There may be a place for you in the league, but I want my starters to walk on the court with as little disadvantage as possible. If I send a 6'3" SG out there, I know I am likely starting the game with a material size disadvantage. I may be able to find places and matchups throughout the game that the 6'3" SG can help my team....but measurements still matter to me, especially when we are talking about unproven players at the NBA level. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | #1 in untradeable.
I think #2 has a lot of value, Morant is a cash cow at worst. Not a big fan of Barrett. Stiff athlete and no play-making ability. Wiggins type with better motor. Not bad but not franchise-changing. |
Im convinced you haven't watched Barrett play. He has a developed body, but he's not a stiff at all LOL. And he absolutely has playmaking ability. He needs to invoke that part of his game more, but he has a scorer mentality.
The Wiggins comparison is weird especially since you called him stiff. |
High-usage, low efficiency, poor 3pt shooter. Both have avg handles at best. Sub-par defensively. |
I would argue he has displayed poor shot selection more so than being a poor shooter. The shot looks fine to me.
We will never know, but I would like to hear Coach K's thoughts on his "High-usage, moderate efficiency" game, because much of it appears to be part of the scheme. Duke leans on Barrett with the ball much more than Zion....is that by design or does Coach K just accept RJ being selfish? I do not see Coach K going crazy or reprimanding Barrett when he plays selfishly. Barrett is just more capable than Zion and Cam on the perimeter, and Duke does not have a lot of dynamic perimeter players on this roster. There is a world where Barrett is allowed to just do what he does best, and is a much more efficient player.
We have seen Barrett for years....high school, in International play, and now at the highest levels in college. He clearly has NBA All Star potential....and is going to have a 10-15 year NBA career. I love Morant....I have talked him up for most of the year....but I am still taking Barrett @ #2. |
My issue with Morant is his atrocious defense. Barret has better two-way potential. If Morant's shooting is legit (could be 80+ FT shooter) then you live with it, especially with guys like BI and Lonzo making up on D.
Barret's poor FT shooting is another concerning thing. It doesn't bode well for his perimeter shooting when you add the 3pt shooting with that. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:03 am Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | My issue with Morant is his atrocious defense. |
maybe he is a terrible defender in the NBA....but I recall 2 years ago, "draft experts" were terrified about Fultz and Ball's lack of defensive effort. We all know that Ball has not had issues on defense, but the little we have seen of Fultz suggests he is at least an average NBA defender. So for the moment, I have just quit giving defense, especially as a guard, strong consideration in my overall evaluations. Even guys like Trae Young who did not play defense in college, and does not play much in the NBA is still on track to potentially be an All Star at some point.
I guess what I am saying is right now, I just have to hope Morant will give the effort needed once in the NBA. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Brandon Clarke highlights against Baylor
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UigTVBnk7RU
He looks like another Donavan Mitchell in the making in terms of coming into the NBA and making big Impact immediately. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:12 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | My issue with Morant is his atrocious defense. |
maybe he is a terrible defender in the NBA....but I recall 2 years ago, "draft experts" were terrified about Fultz and Ball's lack of defensive effort. We all know that Ball has not had issues on defense, but the little we have seen of Fultz suggests he is at least an average NBA defender. So for the moment, I have just quit giving defense, especially as a guard, strong consideration in my overall evaluations. Even guys like Trae Young who did not play defense in college, and does not play much in the NBA is still on track to potentially be an All Star at some point.
I guess what I am saying is right now, I just have to hope Morant will give the effort needed once in the NBA. |
I think it is an effort thing. He has way more upside defensively than a guy like Young, who will never be even a neutral defender. I think if the shot translates, he's an All-Star easily. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:13 am Post subject: |
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If Magic and Pelinka want a immediate Impact player in the draft no better then getting Clarke unless of course we have a chance at Zion. |
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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | My issue with Morant is his atrocious defense. |
maybe he is a terrible defender in the NBA....but I recall 2 years ago, "draft experts" were terrified about Fultz and Ball's lack of defensive effort. We all know that Ball has not had issues on defense, but the little we have seen of Fultz suggests he is at least an average NBA defender. So for the moment, I have just quit giving defense, especially as a guard, strong consideration in my overall evaluations. Even guys like Trae Young who did not play defense in college, and does not play much in the NBA is still on track to potentially be an All Star at some point.
I guess what I am saying is right now, I just have to hope Morant will give the effort needed once in the NBA. |
With Lonzo there was data showing that people were sleeping om him defensively, but people laughed it off and used the Fox game to say he’s a terrible defender. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Coby White looking like he has a pure stroke from 3. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:28 am Post subject: |
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I like Clarke but his shot is terrible. No draft for me. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:31 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | Coby White looking like he has a pure stroke from 3. |
see that step back |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | If Magic and Pelinka want a immediate Impact player in the draft no better then getting Clarke unless of course we have a chance at Zion. |
We don't need more sub 70% FT shooters without range.
Let's get Hunter or White instead.
Clarke did look great but someone needs to put the ball in the hole. |
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bandiger Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Posts: 12555
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:31 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Coby White looking like he has a pure stroke from 3. |
see that step back |
This guy is good. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | If Magic and Pelinka want a immediate Impact player in the draft no better then getting Clarke unless of course we have a chance at Zion. |
We don't need more sub 70% FT shooters without range.
Let's get Hunter or White instead.
Clarke did look great but someone needs to put the ball in the hole. |
I would also be thrilled if we get Coby White, a lot of options to choose from, I’m confident we will draft a stud either way. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: |
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bandiger wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Coby White looking like he has a pure stroke from 3. |
see that step back |
This guy is good. |
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Coby White is just awesome |
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kentu_tiro Star Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2007 Posts: 2798
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | Brandon Clarke highlights against Baylor
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UigTVBnk7RU
He looks like another Donavan Mitchell in the making in terms of coming into the NBA and making big Impact immediately. |
Hardly impressive. Doesn't even go with his left hand when he needed to. Lacks the strength. I didn't see much defense on that make him look good highlight. _________________ The road back to the top... |
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ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 Star Player
Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 8361
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | adkindo wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | My issue with Morant is his atrocious defense. |
maybe he is a terrible defender in the NBA....but I recall 2 years ago, "draft experts" were terrified about Fultz and Ball's lack of defensive effort. We all know that Ball has not had issues on defense, but the little we have seen of Fultz suggests he is at least an average NBA defender. So for the moment, I have just quit giving defense, especially as a guard, strong consideration in my overall evaluations. Even guys like Trae Young who did not play defense in college, and does not play much in the NBA is still on track to potentially be an All Star at some point.
I guess what I am saying is right now, I just have to hope Morant will give the effort needed once in the NBA. |
I think it is an effort thing. He has way more upside defensively than a guy like Young, who will never be even a neutral defender. I think if the shot translates, he's an All-Star easily. |
Thats exactly what it is. He has to carry that team offensively-- like their offense started and stopped with him. He was responsible for scoring and facilitating. Defense is always going to suffer, and in college you can get away with not playing any defense and not getting burned for it.
I'd imagine in the NBA, with more talent around him, that he will develop into a good possibly great defender. He has the athletic tools, he certainly seems like a smart player, and he is a big time competitor. He's also very coachable. If I am drafting him, I am not concerned with his ability to be a good defender. He has great potential on that end. |
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ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 Star Player
Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 8361
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | Coby White looking like he has a pure stroke from 3. |
Im hesitant with throwing this name in when talking about his game, but he has some Steph Curry traits in his game. Please note Im not comparing him to Curry. He won't be at that level. But his ability to get his shot off, and his off ball ability carry some similarities to Steph. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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maybe if we end up at like #9 and Charlotte is @ #11 we can use Coby White as a decoy to trade down (#11) and pick up their two 2nd Round picks (#38 & #50). |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | maybe if we end up at like #9 and Charlotte is @ #11 we can use Coby White as a decoy to trade down (#11) and pick up their two 2nd Round picks (#38 & #50). |
Unless we get Kemba, I'd just take him for ourselves.
His composure as a freshman... he makes an effort on defense... he's not the flashiest passer but has good vision... and he can create.
I think he's going to get better and better with time. |
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