What the Lakers can learn from the Clippers
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject:

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In a worse case scenario as per the Shelbourne speculation, would you prefer:

1. A complete demolition to gather assets and tank a few years for high draft picks.

2. Tear it apart and quickly reconfigure it into a team that may or not be a true contender, but at least able to make the playoffs.

Well, my point was that we just did a rebuild from 2013-19.

BI/Lonzo/Kuz will soon be up for hefty extensions, so are they part of the "Rebuild 2.0?"
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject:

How to not win a championship (and often get bounced in the first or second round) despite having multiple all-stars? (bleep) the Clippers
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
In a worse case scenario as per the Shelbourne speculation, would you prefer:

1. A complete demolition to gather assets and tank a few years for high draft picks.

2. Tear it apart and quickly reconfigure it into a team that may or not be a true contender, but at least able to make the playoffs.

Well, my point was that we just did a rebuild from 2013-19.

BI/Lonzo/Kuz will soon be up for hefty extensions, so are they part of the "Rebuild 2.0?"




If it is going to be a complete teardown with an accumulation of picks and tanking, then probably not since paying them interferes with selling cap space for picks and they could win enough to be stuck in the purgatory of not being bad enough to get a high draft pick.


If it is going to be a reconfiguration of the roster with the goal of making the playoffs ASAP, then maybe some will be kept.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:29 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
In a worse case scenario as per the Shelbourne speculation, would you prefer:

1. A complete demolition to gather assets and tank a few years for high draft picks.

2. Tear it apart and quickly reconfigure it into a team that may or not be a true contender, but at least able to make the playoffs.

Well, my point was that we just did a rebuild from 2013-19.

BI/Lonzo/Kuz will soon be up for hefty extensions, so are they part of the "Rebuild 2.0?"




If it is going to be a complete teardown with an accumulation of picks and tanking, then probably not since paying them interferes with selling cap space for picks and they could win enough to be stuck in the purgatory of not being bad enough to get a high draft pick.


If it is going to be a reconfiguration of the roster with the goal of making the playoffs ASAP, then maybe some will be kept.


It's going to be problematic b/c they will likely have to tear down again, accumulate high draft picks (and stop trading them out so cavalierly).

Meanwhile, your beta version of the rebuild remain in limbo (BI/Lonzo/Kuz) as they are unsure about being extended as they go from making 7-8m/year (BI/Lonzo) to the 20m+/year range and suddenly people feel differently about them.

It would be a mess IMO only b/c it's not like we just had a nice consecutive playoff run and we want to bottom out to start all over.

WE JUST WENT THROUGH A 6 YEAR REBUILD.
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kobe_4_mvp
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
epak wrote:
Thing to learn from the Clippers: Make the playoffs as an 8th seed and win one game against the GSW and have some Lakers fans go hyperbole mode on how great the Clippers are.


Why not, a lot of Laker fans here live off of a meaningless win against the Warriors on Christmas. At least a playoff win means something.


or the summer league title
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:41 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Serious question to the Clipper boosters, would you exchange our exact situations as of this moment (roster, cap, coach and FO)? Can’t pickmor choose components, just one or the other.

Me, no way. We have LeBron, a max slot, and tons of young high-end assets. Whoever we get as coach will be much better than Luke.


No. My Lakers have the better upside, only because we have better long term potential, and our players can make a more profound impact. We have a talented young core that matured greatly last season (conflict will do that to you). We also have Lebron and that cap space. The Clippers are built to be a bridesmaid team. What impresses me mostly about them is their resolve, which is what I hope our young core has developed. But the Clippers have severe limitations. They are weak to average at the center spot, they have a limited young core, and their cap space won't allow them to sign a superstar and keep some of their key energy players, like Pat Bev. They are build to make it to the playoffs, but they are NOT built to win it all.

While they have superior coaching and higher IQ, and higher intensity players, we have a much more superior young core and we have Lebron.

When all is said and done, the Lakers have the better upside. That said, if we fail to sign a key (A list or B list) player this off season, and we have another poor regular season, I don't see Lebron sticking around, unless AD all but publically says he's absolutely signing with us in 2020. This offseason is key to whether or not Lebron stays through his player option season.

Stay tuned, this offseason will be the most important maybe in recent Laker history...


Definitely agree. We have the higher upside, and make or break is who we sign in the off-season with our cap space. We’ll know soon enough.
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Daphanabe
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Serious question to the Clipper boosters, would you exchange our exact situations as of this moment (roster, cap, coach and FO)? Can’t pickmor choose components, just one or the other.

Me, no way. We have LeBron, a max slot, and tons of young high-end assets. Whoever we get as coach will be much better than Luke.


Yes. The roster and the cap are fleeting. The FO and ownership are long-term. Lebron is approaching, and may even have passed, his sell-by date. A max slot is worthless unless you can sign a max player who is really worth the money. We already dumped most of our young assets, and the ones that we kept have health issues. Within six months, you will probably hate the next coach just as much as you hated Luke.

The only way to make anything of this is with a good front office and good ownership. I'm not rooting against us. I won't gain any pleasure from seeing us face-plant this summer. I'd rather smile as you say "I told you so!"

But I have zero faith in Rob Pelinka and Jeanie Buss to lead us out of this mess. I fully expect to see some sort of splashy move that gets some of you excited and pounding your chest. That's what happened last summer. We know how that worked out. So yeah, I like the long-term prospects of the Clippers better than ours.


Fair enough. I think we have the higher upside in the short term, and you’re right if we do t play it right, then the window closes quickly. I’d rather play for a championship though in the short term, versus have stability but with a lower potential ceiling.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:49 am    Post subject:

kobe_4_mvp wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
epak wrote:
Thing to learn from the Clippers: Make the playoffs as an 8th seed and win one game against the GSW and have some Lakers fans go hyperbole mode on how great the Clippers are.


Why not, a lot of Laker fans here live off of a meaningless win against the Warriors on Christmas. At least a playoff win means something.


or the summer league title


Haha hilarious.
But happen to know any folks that are actually living off that game?


Last edited by epak on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
In a worse case scenario as per the Shelbourne speculation, would you prefer:

1. A complete demolition to gather assets and tank a few years for high draft picks.

2. Tear it apart and quickly reconfigure it into a team that may or not be a true contender, but at least able to make the playoffs.

Well, my point was that we just did a rebuild from 2013-19.

BI/Lonzo/Kuz will soon be up for hefty extensions, so are they part of the "Rebuild 2.0?"


Isn't this the effects of instability and repeated changing of plans mid-cycle?

They had a rebuild plan in place. Collecting good young players and "punting" free agent money in contracts with Deng and Mozgov. Hired a promising inexperienced HC to grow with them. They played a fast paced share the ball style of offense and worked hard on defense. They went from getting blown out by 20+ most nights to being competitive and losing close games in the fourth. They needed a leader and close out guy.

Then they changed the plan. Trade quality players to be able to park the "2 max" money. Signed a win now marquee player. Discussed trades and made odd over priced one year deals to undermine any roster stability and chemistry. Basically disrespecting all the core players in order to honor the whims of one player and his "team". (shouldn't his team be the Lakers?)

Now they have more disruption. What is the current plan? What will be the vision of the new GM and HC?

Think of it as you and your friends getting in a car and going to Staples to see a game. But you keep changing drivers, cars and routes. Everyone has their own idea of how to do it the "best" way. Until you realize you are not even close to Staples and it is already halftime.
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
In a worse case scenario as per the Shelbourne speculation, would you prefer:

1. A complete demolition to gather assets and tank a few years for high draft picks.

2. Tear it apart and quickly reconfigure it into a team that may or not be a true contender, but at least able to make the playoffs.

Well, my point was that we just did a rebuild from 2013-19.

BI/Lonzo/Kuz will soon be up for hefty extensions, so are they part of the "Rebuild 2.0?"




If it is going to be a complete teardown with an accumulation of picks and tanking, then probably not since paying them interferes with selling cap space for picks and they could win enough to be stuck in the purgatory of not being bad enough to get a high draft pick.


If it is going to be a reconfiguration of the roster with the goal of making the playoffs ASAP, then maybe some will be kept.


It's going to be problematic b/c they will likely have to tear down again, accumulate high draft picks (and stop trading them out so cavalierly).

Meanwhile, your beta version of the rebuild remain in limbo (BI/Lonzo/Kuz) as they are unsure about being extended as they go from making 7-8m/year (BI/Lonzo) to the 20m+/year range and suddenly people feel differently about them.

It would be a mess IMO only b/c it's not like we just had a nice consecutive playoff run and we want to bottom out to start all over.

WE JUST WENT THROUGH A 6 YEAR REBUILD.




I have been saying for several years that the circumstances have changed and not to rely on the winning years of the past as a predictor for the future. Quite a few teams have been stuck in a bad situation for a while and if a few things don't go right, it is very difficult to break the cycle. I don't see how the Lakers would be immune from that future if everything doesn't go right.

* LeBron able to play at a high level and not miss many games

* Acquire another high level player

* At least one of the young players moves his game upward in a significant way

* Roster configuration that makes sense


Quote:

WE JUST WENT THROUGH A 6 YEAR REBUILD


Sean Marks has been in charge of the Nets for just over three years (February 2016) and had limited resources to work with since Boston was skimming off the high draft picks from the beatings (losses) that the Nets were taking.

It is more than just the time spent in the rebuild, but what the FO/leadership does during that time.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject:

Daphanabe wrote:
Serious question to the Clipper boosters, would you exchange our exact situations as of this moment (roster, cap, coach and FO)? Can’t pickmor choose components, just one or the other.

Me, no way. We have LeBron, a max slot, and tons of young high-end assets. Whoever we get as coach will be much better than Luke.



Hmm. We have cap space, but so do a lot of teams. Lebron is still a very good player, but he just had his first major injury and is on the downside of his career.

I am not sure if our "young high-end assets" are considered that "high end" outside of LG. All of them are question marks.

Our major problem is we have an ownership that thinks our heritage is all we need.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
...I just don't comment on the Clips until the second round.


When's the last time we made the second round?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject:

1. Change owners.
2. Hire Jerry West.
3. Allow him to bring his people (I'm guessing Lawrence Frank).
4. Get out of the way.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
4. Get out of the way.


Most important IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
1. Change owners.
2. Hire Jerry West.
3. Allow him to bring his people (I'm guessing Lawrence Frank).
4. Get out of the way.


x1000000
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:32 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
...I just don't comment on the Clips until the second round.


When's the last time we made the second round?


2012. The year Bynum said, "closeout games are easy," when Lakers were trying to closeout Denver. It eventually took 7 games before they advanced to the 2nd round vs OKC.
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VicXLakers
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
MJST wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
...I just don't comment on the Clips until the second round.


When's the last time we made the second round?


2012. The year Bynum said, "closeout games are easy," when Lakers were trying to closeout Denver. It eventually took 7 games before they advanced to the 2nd round vs OKC.


https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Los-Angeles-Clippers/12/Playoff-History

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Los-Angeles-Lakers/13/Playoff-History
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1118992670322561025?s=21

Teams now want to poach from Clippers FO.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:45 pm    Post subject:

^^Thanks, good ol' Clips back in '15 when they held a 3-1 lead on the Rockets in the 2nd round but let it slip away...into the futu... abyss.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1118992670322561025?s=21

Teams now want to poach from Clippers FO.


woj
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
MJST wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
...I just don't comment on the Clips until the second round.


When's the last time we made the second round?


2012. The year Bynum said, "closeout games are easy," when Lakers were trying to closeout Denver. It eventually took 7 games before they advanced to the 2nd round vs OKC.


Yeah and the Clippers have been better since then. Actually built to something, and properly rebuilt when they let go of their talent or started the process and kept a strong team.

While the Lakers undid any progress they made over 6 years of rebuilding based on a pyramid scheme that they didn't need to unload anyone in order to seek.

So people that want to be on their high horse about what the Clippers are doing right, need to realistically look at where the Lakers have been.

The rebuild was acceptable as long as we took advantage of the talent we gained and drafted well.

That happened and then the new FO unnecessarily undid it.

We've got 2 more seasons of LeBron before he's outtie and the Lakers are still in the lottery and undid the progress they'd been building towards.

The Clippers did it the right way. Regardless of Lakers fans hatred of that organization it may be time to acknowledge they did it the right way, and for the past two off-seasons the Lakers haven't.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:13 pm    Post subject:

the biggest thing to learn from the Clippers is invest in your infrastructure
spare no expense with funding up fully staffed scouting, player development, analytics teams
or basically, sell the team to a multi-multi billionaire who has the desire and means to do so
Lakers are running on a skeleton crew to help preserve the Buss kid's trust fund cash flow
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
the biggest thing to learn from the Clippers is invest in your infrastructure
spare no expense with funding up fully staffed scouting, player development, analytics teams
or basically, sell the team to a multi-multi billionaire who has the desire and means to do so
Lakers are running on a skeleton crew to help preserve the Buss kid's trust fund cash flow


Bravo. Anyone chuckling at the Clipps: Would you prefer Ballmer over Jeanie Buss(!) or Rivers over Luke Walton or Mike Brown or Baby B types? We are bush league at the top and Jeanie seems like she wants to secure another humiliating pitch/sit a la LMA. What have they done since then when the league was shifting into what it is now? What's it been, 6-7 years since that debacle? As far as this fan is concerned, Jeanie, Pelinka, and the next coach off of the Ferris wheel that is our HC position can completely F off w/ their outward appearances of normalcy. They were all rotten inside even with the supposedly "feel good" FO.

If our new coach doesn't hire a shooting coach, by the way....
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