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trablos
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Watching Simmons dominate the Nets today while taking no 3’s, and the world doesn’t complain. Ingram hits 1 three a game and LG he needs him to be out there like Klay or Dame just raining down from beyond the arc. Let him be folks. Basketball existed before the Warriors dynasty and it’ll last long after it.


Simmons scored 31 in a playoff win with a +11. Ingram has never scored over 30 in a win. In the 4 games he’s scored over 30 in his career, he’s been a -11, +2, -14, and -8. It’s not all about shooting 3s, it’s about getting your team a win.


Ben Simmons scores 30 in a win over the nets with the help of all star teammates such as Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick. Surround BI with all star teammates and he will get you a win guaranteed.


BIs had 30 point games came alongside this guy named LeBron James. In case you’ve lived under a rock, he’s pretty good. Not only a perennial all star, but been MVP a few times. You should look him up, his highlight reel is pretty cool.

Also, Tobias Harris and Reddick haven’t been to an all star game and the 76ers were without their best player in that game.

Was this supposed to be a knock against Ingram
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trablos
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject:

Always get nostalgic coming across the good 'ol "Kobe sidekick" argument. If you put up good numbers, it's only because you were playing next to a star, if you win games, it's only because you were playing next to a star. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:29 am    Post subject:

I worry when "All-Star" is the bar that players are held to, when impact is so much more important.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

It feels like Simmons gets knocked because because he came into the league as an all-star level player and we're mad he's not a superstar already?
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
It feels like Simmons gets knocked because because he came into the league as an all-star level player and we're mad he's not a superstar already?


I would be. I never really feel he plays up to his talent every game.

He's THAT talented.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
It feels like Simmons gets knocked because because he came into the league as an all-star level player and we're mad he's not a superstar already?


I would be. I never really feel he plays up to his talent every game.

He's THAT talented.


Ya, that's just silly to me. It's his 2nd season.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:

3rd*
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject:

AirTupac wrote:
3rd*


His effort on defense isn't even the same quarter to quarter.

You get weird minimal effort games.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject:

AirTupac wrote:
3rd*


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:07 am    Post subject:

It's Ingram's favorite day, sleepy eyes is probably going ham as we speak.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I worry when "All-Star" is the bar that players are held to, when impact is so much more important.


I think Ingram will always be compared to Simmons when he just isn't the same. Simmons came into the NBA with a mature body and a more polished skillset that allowed him to become exactly who people thought he'd be.


Ingram came into the league with people expecting him to put on muscle which would allow him to play more like KD or Giannis...that hasn't happened.


Where players end up have a HUGE effect on how much impact they can have and how early - see Kuzma and Donovan Mitchell. I firmly believe that if Tatum had gone to a team like the 76ers that didn't have AllStars and he was allowed to be the guy, he'd have been an "instant impact" guy too.


The problem with how we have treated our young players is we want to change them into what we want instead of putting in a situation/role that allows them to be the player that matches their skillset. People are constantly talking about "if he adds this" or "he can develop this". That's like playing the lottery as a career.

It makes much more sense to take a player's STRENGTHS and develop those FIRST and allow them to develop other things as their career progressed.

Take Randle. If we would have allowed and encouraged Randle to be a hard screen setting, rebounding, bully ball, P&R BIG like he was back at UK from the very start instead trying to get him to face-up and float on the perimeter, who's to say how far along he'd be right now? At his best, he's a MONSTER attacking the basket when looks are created for him...not so much when he tries to create for himself, like we tried to push him to do.


Trae Young. He struggled a LOT in Summer League but ATL told him to "just keep shooting". Why? Because that was his strength and it unlocked everything else about him. They didn't try to put him in a box and change who he was.


Ingram needs to be on a team that will allow him to play on the ball full time OR he needs to develop off-ball skills. He's not our best on-ball player and he's not a true off-ball player. As long as he's on this team, he won't be the best at any skill set his body and talent currently allows.

That's why Ingram vs Simmons is so lopsided. I agree that Simmons is CRAZY talented but he's been allowed to be him from Day 1. Ingram hasn't...not his fault but also not a reason to hold on to him if that's not going to change.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject:

I think it's just two different tiers of talent and two different tiers of approach.

Ben Simmons is a Top 10 current NBA talent, but IMHO doesn't show the effort/intangibles to get him there. I think that started since LSU where there were quite a few signs, and even now, the improvement from 2nd to 3rd year is minimal.

Ingram is the tier lower level of talent, but there's absolutely no doubt that he's flashed defense, passing, even spot up 3pt shooting. He's had WAY more skill mountains to climb, but he's been climbing them. Simmons, plateaued.

Effort isn't an age thing. Both guys look laid back, but there's a reason why Simmons has a really low effort game every 4th or 5th game. It doesn't make sense considering his level of talent.

Honestly, he could be LeBron without a jumper if he wanted. Guess what separates them.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Watching Simmons dominate the Nets today while taking no 3’s, and the world doesn’t complain. Ingram hits 1 three a game and LG he needs him to be out there like Klay or Dame just raining down from beyond the arc. Let him be folks. Basketball existed before the Warriors dynasty and it’ll last long after it.


Simmons scored 31 in a playoff win with a +11. Ingram has never scored over 30 in a win. In the 4 games he’s scored over 30 in his career, he’s been a -11, +2, -14, and -8. It’s not all about shooting 3s, it’s about getting your team a win.


Ben Simmons scores 30 in a win over the nets with the help of all star teammates such as Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick. Surround BI with all star teammates and he will get you a win guaranteed.


BIs had 30 point games came alongside this guy named LeBron James. In case you’ve lived under a rock, he’s pretty good. Not only a perennial all star, but been MVP a few times. You should look him up, his highlight reel is pretty cool.

Also, Tobias Harris and Reddick haven’t been to an all star game and the 76ers were without their best player in that game.

Was this supposed to be a knock against Ingram


Lmao I know right
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dabask11
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Watching Simmons dominate the Nets today while taking no 3’s, and the world doesn’t complain. Ingram hits 1 three a game and LG he needs him to be out there like Klay or Dame just raining down from beyond the arc. Let him be folks. Basketball existed before the Warriors dynasty and it’ll last long after it.


Simmons scored 31 in a playoff win with a +11. Ingram has never scored over 30 in a win. In the 4 games he’s scored over 30 in his career, he’s been a -11, +2, -14, and -8. It’s not all about shooting 3s, it’s about getting your team a win.


Ben Simmons scores 30 in a win over the nets with the help of all star teammates such as Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick. Surround BI with all star teammates and he will get you a win guaranteed.


BIs had 30 point games came alongside this guy named LeBron James. In case you’ve lived under a rock, he’s pretty good. Not only a perennial all star, but been MVP a few times. You should look him up, his highlight reel is pretty cool.

Also, Tobias Harris and Reddick haven’t been to an all star game and the 76ers were without their best player in that game.

Was this supposed to be a knock against Ingram


BI putting up 30 point games next to lebron but not winning suggests "empty stats"
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:39 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I think it's just two different tiers of talent and two different tiers of approach.

Ben Simmons is a Top 10 current NBA talent, but IMHO doesn't show the effort/intangibles to get him there. I think that started since LSU where there were quite a few signs, and even now, the improvement from 2nd to 3rd year is minimal.

Ingram is the tier lower level of talent, but there's absolutely no doubt that he's flashed defense, passing, even spot up 3pt shooting. He's had WAY more skill mountains to climb, but he's been climbing them. Simmons, plateaued.

Effort isn't an age thing. Both guys look laid back, but there's a reason why Simmons has a really low effort game every 4th or 5th game. It doesn't make sense considering his level of talent.

Honestly, he could be LeBron without a jumper if he wanted. Guess what separates them.


How bout BI and Siakam, how far apart are they?
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h2omike
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:15 am    Post subject:

I agree it’s not fair comparing Ingram to stars, he is just not there yet. He is an emerging player, ceiling yet unknown.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
trablos wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Watching Simmons dominate the Nets today while taking no 3’s, and the world doesn’t complain. Ingram hits 1 three a game and LG he needs him to be out there like Klay or Dame just raining down from beyond the arc. Let him be folks. Basketball existed before the Warriors dynasty and it’ll last long after it.


Simmons scored 31 in a playoff win with a +11. Ingram has never scored over 30 in a win. In the 4 games he’s scored over 30 in his career, he’s been a -11, +2, -14, and -8. It’s not all about shooting 3s, it’s about getting your team a win.


Ben Simmons scores 30 in a win over the nets with the help of all star teammates such as Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick. Surround BI with all star teammates and he will get you a win guaranteed.


BIs had 30 point games came alongside this guy named LeBron James. In case you’ve lived under a rock, he’s pretty good. Not only a perennial all star, but been MVP a few times. You should look him up, his highlight reel is pretty cool.

Also, Tobias Harris and Reddick haven’t been to an all star game and the 76ers were without their best player in that game.

Was this supposed to be a knock against Ingram


BI putting up 30 point games next to lebron but not winning suggests "empty stats"


Or its a team game and if this team would put an emphasis on defense and making free throws that 30 points would mean so much more (wins)
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trablos
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:50 pm    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
trablos wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Watching Simmons dominate the Nets today while taking no 3’s, and the world doesn’t complain. Ingram hits 1 three a game and LG he needs him to be out there like Klay or Dame just raining down from beyond the arc. Let him be folks. Basketball existed before the Warriors dynasty and it’ll last long after it.


Simmons scored 31 in a playoff win with a +11. Ingram has never scored over 30 in a win. In the 4 games he’s scored over 30 in his career, he’s been a -11, +2, -14, and -8. It’s not all about shooting 3s, it’s about getting your team a win.


Ben Simmons scores 30 in a win over the nets with the help of all star teammates such as Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick. Surround BI with all star teammates and he will get you a win guaranteed.


BIs had 30 point games came alongside this guy named LeBron James. In case you’ve lived under a rock, he’s pretty good. Not only a perennial all star, but been MVP a few times. You should look him up, his highlight reel is pretty cool.

Also, Tobias Harris and Reddick haven’t been to an all star game and the 76ers were without their best player in that game.

Was this supposed to be a knock against Ingram


BI putting up 30 point games next to lebron but not winning suggests "empty stats"

So if he put up lesser stats, and still lost, his stats would be "full"
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Since he's not exercising, maybe now is the time to put him on a 10,000 calorie a day diet. Should come back 225lbs
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I think it's just two different tiers of talent and two different tiers of approach.

Ben Simmons is a Top 10 current NBA talent, but IMHO doesn't show the effort/intangibles to get him there. I think that started since LSU where there were quite a few signs, and even now, the improvement from 2nd to 3rd year is minimal.

Ingram is the tier lower level of talent, but there's absolutely no doubt that he's flashed defense, passing, even spot up 3pt shooting. He's had WAY more skill mountains to climb, but he's been climbing them. Simmons, plateaued.

Effort isn't an age thing. Both guys look laid back, but there's a reason why Simmons has a really low effort game every 4th or 5th game. It doesn't make sense considering his level of talent.

Honestly, he could be LeBron without a jumper if he wanted. Guess what separates them.


How bout BI and Siakam, how far apart are they?


Siakam? The guy who's 25 and has one good year under his belt? Give me Ingram any day
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dabask11
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
trablos wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Watching Simmons dominate the Nets today while taking no 3’s, and the world doesn’t complain. Ingram hits 1 three a game and LG he needs him to be out there like Klay or Dame just raining down from beyond the arc. Let him be folks. Basketball existed before the Warriors dynasty and it’ll last long after it.


Simmons scored 31 in a playoff win with a +11. Ingram has never scored over 30 in a win. In the 4 games he’s scored over 30 in his career, he’s been a -11, +2, -14, and -8. It’s not all about shooting 3s, it’s about getting your team a win.


Ben Simmons scores 30 in a win over the nets with the help of all star teammates such as Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick. Surround BI with all star teammates and he will get you a win guaranteed.


BIs had 30 point games came alongside this guy named LeBron James. In case you’ve lived under a rock, he’s pretty good. Not only a perennial all star, but been MVP a few times. You should look him up, his highlight reel is pretty cool.

Also, Tobias Harris and Reddick haven’t been to an all star game and the 76ers were without their best player in that game.

Was this supposed to be a knock against Ingram


BI putting up 30 point games next to lebron but not winning suggests "empty stats"

So if he put up lesser stats, and still lost, his stats would be "full"


No it would mean what people thought of BI before he went on that run aka "he’s a bust”.
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
governator wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I think it's just two different tiers of talent and two different tiers of approach.

Ben Simmons is a Top 10 current NBA talent, but IMHO doesn't show the effort/intangibles to get him there. I think that started since LSU where there were quite a few signs, and even now, the improvement from 2nd to 3rd year is minimal.

Ingram is the tier lower level of talent, but there's absolutely no doubt that he's flashed defense, passing, even spot up 3pt shooting. He's had WAY more skill mountains to climb, but he's been climbing them. Simmons, plateaued.

Effort isn't an age thing. Both guys look laid back, but there's a reason why Simmons has a really low effort game every 4th or 5th game. It doesn't make sense considering his level of talent.

Honestly, he could be LeBron without a jumper if he wanted. Guess what separates them.


How bout BI and Siakam, how far apart are they?


Siakam? The guy who's 25 and has one good year under his belt? Give me Ingram any day


I like BI too but Siakam looks legit, not just this playoff, all season long
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I think it's just two different tiers of talent and two different tiers of approach.

Ben Simmons is a Top 10 current NBA talent, but IMHO doesn't show the effort/intangibles to get him there. I think that started since LSU where there were quite a few signs, and even now, the improvement from 2nd to 3rd year is minimal.

Ingram is the tier lower level of talent, but there's absolutely no doubt that he's flashed defense, passing, even spot up 3pt shooting. He's had WAY more skill mountains to climb, but he's been climbing them. Simmons, plateaued.

Effort isn't an age thing. Both guys look laid back, but there's a reason why Simmons has a really low effort game every 4th or 5th game. It doesn't make sense considering his level of talent.

Honestly, he could be LeBron without a jumper if he wanted. Guess what separates them.


People saying Simmons has plateaued? How so? He's been in the league for 3 years?

He came in NBA Ready. He needed to add a J to make the next logical step. He hasn't but he's got his entire career to add that.

What Simmons HAS done is played to his STRENGTHS!!!! If Julius Randle had done the same coming out of UK, how good could he have been in year 5?


I challenge the claim that Ingram's effort has been better than Simmons.

Simmons has plenty of talent even if he never develops a J.
Ingram's outside shot won't make him better or on par with Simmons.
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LakerLand247
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject:

Texas_Pete wrote:
Since he's not exercising, maybe now is the time to put him on a 10,000 calorie a day diet. Should come back 225lbs


At that extra weight would just go straight to the belly. He'll look like a frog. Fat body with skinny limbs.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject:

LakerLand247 wrote:
Texas_Pete wrote:
Since he's not exercising, maybe now is the time to put him on a 10,000 calorie a day diet. Should come back 225lbs


At that extra weight would just go straight to the belly. He'll look like a frog. Fat body with skinny limbs.


wiry strong...
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