James Holzhauer on Jeopardy
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K2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject:

Streak continues... though it was a close one.
http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/26636369/holzhauer-dodges-jeopardy-threat-wins-18
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject:

I watched him for the first time today since my mom insisted on watching him play. It was close.

I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards. Rather, it was clear he's gotten really good at gaming the system. I made this comparison to my parents, where it feels he's the Rockets going full Moreyball and taking advantage of the basic math. But it also feels a bit like he's gaming a system that wasn't meant to be played this way.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:04 am    Post subject:

Perhaps it's time for the only other person who has ever lived in the Jeopardy universe who has never lost a show to challenge him. If only I could think of someone...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:00 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Perhaps it's time for the only other person who has ever lived in the Jeopardy universe who has never lost a show to challenge him. If only I could think of someone...



I'd watch that, Jeopardy tournament of the unbeatens
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards.


I am definitely not an everyday viewer, but I have watched my fair share of episodes....and not sure how you reach your conclusion. In several episodes he simply dominates the board, never appearing stunted by a question....or I guess in this case an answer.

That said, his days are likely numbered and yesterday was evidence the gap is not what once thought.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
I watched him for the first time today since my mom insisted on watching him play. It was close.

I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards. Rather, it was clear he's gotten really good at gaming the system. I made this comparison to my parents, where it feels he's the Rockets going full Moreyball and taking advantage of the basic math. But it also feels a bit like he's gaming a system that wasn't meant to be played this way.


I think theres smarter people on the show....Ken Jennings....but he's much more prepared than the other contestants. He stated he's practiced with a buzzer at home and studied trivia with childrens books. Also he's willing to put in high money bets than the other contestants, which is why he is able to pull away from the game so easily.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
tox wrote:
I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards.


I am definitely not an everyday viewer, but I have watched my fair share of episodes....and not sure how you reach your conclusion. In several episodes he simply dominates the board, never appearing stunted by a question....or I guess in this case an answer.

That said, his days are likely numbered and yesterday was evidence the gap is not what once thought.


Yep, since they tape multiple shows per day I'm pretty sure he's been scouted by other contestants and they have created their own strategies in an attempt to beat him.
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:


I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards. Rather, it was clear he's gotten really good at gaming the system.


Please tell me you are not being serious.

This is on the Mount Rushmore of incorrect opinions.
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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject:

He is now #2 in consecutive wins with his sights on Ken Jennings.
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
He is now #2 in consecutive wins with his sights on Ken Jennings.


Jeopardy needs to get Ken Jennings to retire and face once they're tied
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject:

Jennings is on a new show on the Game Show network
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
tox wrote:


I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards. Rather, it was clear he's gotten really good at gaming the system.


Please tell me you are not being serious.

This is on the Mount Rushmore of incorrect opinions.

I was being serious. I said I only watched one game, and it happened to be that nailbiter. But in that one game I watched, while it was clear his knowledge of trivia was really good, it wasn't "particularly" impressive to me in a way that's outlier to other contestants I've watched. What stood out to me was the way he hunted for and used Daily Doubles. To give an NBA analogy, he reminded me of James Harden, obviously a very good shooter but not noteworthy in the way a guy like Steph Curry -- rather, what's noteworthy about him is the way he games the system looking for mathematically optimal moves.

With that all said, I was looking at some articles about him earlier, and the % of clues he answers is similar to Ken Jennings', so I probably just caught him on a bad day (in which he still won $60K lol).
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:21 pm    Post subject:

His strategy is amazing. Get all the big money off the board, wager big on daily doubles, and before you know it the game is out of reach. The other contestants are already psyched out and playing from so far behind that the game is already over.

Only way James loses is overconfidence or a missed big wager bet at a crucial moment.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject:

Jeopardy James would've lost in last nights airing had his opponent bet more money on Double Jeopardy or Final Jeopardy. There was a real chance that was his final game had he not found the other Double Jeopardy question since he was so far behind.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
tox wrote:


I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards. Rather, it was clear he's gotten really good at gaming the system.


Please tell me you are not being serious.

This is on the Mount Rushmore of incorrect opinions.

I was being serious. I said I only watched one game, and it happened to be that nailbiter. But in that one game I watched, while it was clear his knowledge of trivia was really good, it wasn't "particularly" impressive to me in a way that's outlier to other contestants I've watched. What stood out to me was the way he hunted for and used Daily Doubles. To give an NBA analogy, he reminded me of James Harden, obviously a very good shooter but not noteworthy in the way a guy like Steph Curry -- rather, what's noteworthy about him is the way he games the system looking for mathematically optimal moves.

With that all said, I was looking at some articles about him earlier, and the % of clues he answers is similar to Ken Jennings', so I probably just caught him on a bad day (in which he still won $60K lol).


Doesn't he have something like a 97% accuracy? I'm not sure how much there's left to go from there.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject:

Is there a 3rd big time winner on Jeopardy? I'd 100% tune in if this dude, Ken and a 3rd high caliber contestant are in a match together.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:35 pm    Post subject:

Ted wrote:
His strategy is amazing. Get all the big money off the board, wager big on daily doubles, and before you know it the game is out of reach. The other contestants are already psyched out and playing from so far behind that the game is already over.

Only way James loses is overconfidence or a missed big wager bet at a crucial moment.


His strategy is he buzzes in first and gets all the questions right.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:04 pm    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
Ted wrote:
His strategy is amazing. Get all the big money off the board, wager big on daily doubles, and before you know it the game is out of reach. The other contestants are already psyched out and playing from so far behind that the game is already over.

Only way James loses is overconfidence or a missed big wager bet at a crucial moment.


His strategy is he buzzes in first and gets all the questions right.


Not all, but probably like 90-95%. With his strategy he pretty much overwhelms his opponents so that the game is over before Final Jeopardy. There was probably 2 games that were close where he had a chance of losing so far in his run and both opponents didn't make those gutsy calls to bet big.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject:

guy is a monster

his breadth of knowledge across categories is spectacular
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Perhaps it's time for the only other person who has ever lived in the Jeopardy universe who has never lost a show to challenge him. If only I could think of someone...



Not long before Jennings went on the show, Jeopardy lifted a 5-game cap they used to have on consecutive appearances. I'm pretty sure that before then, there were more than a few 5-time champions whose time on the show ended only because it was mandatory.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:30 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Is there a 3rd big time winner on Jeopardy? I'd 100% tune in if this dude, Ken and a 3rd high caliber contestant are in a match together.


Pay-Per-View!
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:07 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
tox wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
tox wrote:


I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards. Rather, it was clear he's gotten really good at gaming the system.


Please tell me you are not being serious.

This is on the Mount Rushmore of incorrect opinions.

I was being serious. I said I only watched one game, and it happened to be that nailbiter. But in that one game I watched, while it was clear his knowledge of trivia was really good, it wasn't "particularly" impressive to me in a way that's outlier to other contestants I've watched. What stood out to me was the way he hunted for and used Daily Doubles. To give an NBA analogy, he reminded me of James Harden, obviously a very good shooter but not noteworthy in the way a guy like Steph Curry -- rather, what's noteworthy about him is the way he games the system looking for mathematically optimal moves.

With that all said, I was looking at some articles about him earlier, and the % of clues he answers is similar to Ken Jennings', so I probably just caught him on a bad day (in which he still won $60K lol).


Doesn't he have something like a 97% accuracy? I'm not sure how much there's left to go from there.


FWIW, Jennings agreed with my take.
There's a Planet Money podcast which goes into Holzhauer's Jeopardy playing (he, along with Ken Jennings and a few others, makes an appearance). One thing Jennings claimed is that there isn't a seismic gap in knowledge base between contestants and himself. Rather, the advantage that people like Jennings and Holzhauer have is that they are really good at pushing the buzzer at the right time. There's a cadence to it. Push it too early and you're prevented from pushing for a few moments which will be enough to let your competition push the buzzer. Push it too late and someone will push it before you.

Of course, Holzhauer has his strategies about maximizing daily doubles which is the big innovation. But the core skill he and Jennings mastered is buzzing in correctly.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:57 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
tox wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
tox wrote:


I didn't think his knowledge was particularly impressive by Jeopardy standards. Rather, it was clear he's gotten really good at gaming the system.


Please tell me you are not being serious.

This is on the Mount Rushmore of incorrect opinions.

I was being serious. I said I only watched one game, and it happened to be that nailbiter. But in that one game I watched, while it was clear his knowledge of trivia was really good, it wasn't "particularly" impressive to me in a way that's outlier to other contestants I've watched. What stood out to me was the way he hunted for and used Daily Doubles. To give an NBA analogy, he reminded me of James Harden, obviously a very good shooter but not noteworthy in the way a guy like Steph Curry -- rather, what's noteworthy about him is the way he games the system looking for mathematically optimal moves.

With that all said, I was looking at some articles about him earlier, and the % of clues he answers is similar to Ken Jennings', so I probably just caught him on a bad day (in which he still won $60K lol).


Doesn't he have something like a 97% accuracy? I'm not sure how much there's left to go from there.


FWIW, Jennings agreed with my take.
There's a Planet Money podcast which goes into Holzhauer's Jeopardy playing (he, along with Ken Jennings and a few others, makes an appearance). One thing Jennings claimed is that there isn't a seismic gap in knowledge base between contestants and himself. Rather, the advantage that people like Jennings and Holzhauer have is that they are really good at pushing the buzzer at the right time. There's a cadence to it. Push it too early and you're prevented from pushing for a few moments which will be enough to let your competition push the buzzer. Push it too late and someone will push it before you.

Of course, Holzhauer has his strategies about maximizing daily doubles which is the big innovation. But the core skill he and Jennings mastered is buzzing in correctly.


Yeah, agreed. I"ve mentioned it either in this thread or some other Jeopardy thread years ago for sure but Ken Jennings LOOOONG ago mentioned buzzer timing as being the #1 skill since everyone knows most of the questions. I've yapped about it for years... You can see them clicking. As a Jeopardy nerd since the 80s, you can 100% see people trying to click while the incumbent gets in the buzzer.

Irrespective of that, 97% is 97%. I'd like to see the #'s of other long time champs but I'm sure they're all within the same category. But if a normal "champ" iseven 1 or 2 questions wrong in comparison, that % dips substantially. I guess it's an issue of semantics. One extra missed 3 every 2-3 games for Steph and he goes from the greatest shooter to ever walk the earth to a REALLY good NBA 3 point shooter. To me, him "barely" being 2-3% better than his peers who all exist at the highest levels makes him an outlier. At the highest levels of any competition, there doesn't exist outliers that are multiple standard deviations away. None that I can think of.

For what it's worth, I don't' think you could pay Ken enough to say something that pats his intellect/knowledge base on the back. Come on man.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:47 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:


Yeah, agreed. I"ve mentioned it either in this thread or some other Jeopardy thread years ago for sure but Ken Jennings LOOOONG ago mentioned buzzer timing as being the #1 skill since everyone knows most of the questions. I've yapped about it for years... You can see them clicking. As a Jeopardy nerd since the 80s, you can 100% see people trying to click while the incumbent gets in the buzzer.

Irrespective of that, 97% is 97%. I'd like to see the #'s of other long time champs but I'm sure they're all within the same category. But if a normal "champ" iseven 1 or 2 questions wrong in comparison, that % dips substantially. I guess it's an issue of semantics. One extra missed 3 every 2-3 games for Steph and he goes from the greatest shooter to ever walk the earth to a REALLY good NBA 3 point shooter. To me, him "barely" being 2-3% better than his peers who all exist at the highest levels makes him an outlier. At the highest levels of any competition, there doesn't exist outliers that are multiple standard deviations away. None that I can think of.

For what it's worth, I don't' think you could pay Ken enough to say something that pats his intellect/knowledge base on the back. Come on man.


So they do give the contestants the questions or maybe the topics to study before hand
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject:

fwiw...

How James Holzhauer Broke Jeopardy - Cheddar Explains

Quote:
James Holzhauer is on track to be the highest winning Jeopardy contestant of all time. How is he doing this? James is professional gambler and his game-play strategy proves it. Cheddar explains how James is controlling the Jeopardy board.
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