Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
is sputniknews a joke?

According to The New York Times Sputnik engages in deliberate disinformation,[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)


some other links...

https://www.cjr.org/tow_center/google-news-algorithm.php

https://247wallst.com/media/2019/05/13/this-is-how-google-shapes-peoples-attention-to-the-news-2/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/12/google-top-stories-dominated-left-leaning-sources-/

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/05/googles-bias-quantified.php

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47085/confirmed-google-gives-left-wing-websites-ashe-schow

some consvervative leaning sites....but also Columbia Journalism Review and 247 Wall St........the bigger question is why did almost all mainstream news sources avoid reporting on the study?


They also never reported on this study out of Yale about how white liberals talk "down" to minorities whereas their conservative counterparts do not change their language at all when talking to people of color.

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/white-liberals-present-themselves-as-less-competent-in-interactions-with-african-americans
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Twitter just suspended Ray Blanchard, a PhD sex researcher for exactly what I’m not sure but he is trending. Sounds like some of his research findings might conflict with feelings on transsexualism.

Anyway, yeah I did see this report but I have some questions.

For starters, Fox is the only conservative outlet in the mainstream media. Also, sites with a lot of traffic are generally considered by its algorithm to be more relevant for matched keyword queries. The primary news outlets are almost entirely left leaning.

So how do you get around that? I don’t even know if one should.

Its like if you search for “cycle”, the majority of the results will be about bicycles. Not unicycles or tandem bikes. That isn’t necessarily bias, but more, a reflection of the existing landscape tied to “cycles”.


the report claims that was their initial thoughts also, but the results were still leaning left at a higher level than the content generation gap. Also, their algorithms were picking up hard left propaganda sites like HuffPost in their Top 20, while no similar conservative sites were registering in the Top Stories.


That's probably the strongest argument, yeah. That "second tier" of sites that get play are almost always left leaning. The Daily Wire's, New York Post, etc don't get nearly as much play.

The other part that bugs me is that people will dismiss conservative leaning outlets as being right leaning. Which is fair, but they never issue a disclaimer when referencing left leaning media. (And to be fair, those on the right do this too).

Not having a politically neutral news source is highly problematic.


There is a website called AllSides that has a ratings system for identifying bias in the news and they label news outlets as left, lean left, center, lean right, and right. Here is a link to their conclusions:

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

And before anyone freaks out about NPR or the Wall Street Journal being listed as "Center", check out their explanation of what they are trying to do here:
https://www.allsides.com/blog/center-media-bias-rating-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means

They will also provide highlights of coverage from the left, center, and right on every story, so you can see what all sides are saying about a particular issue...it's pretty cool and I like what they are trying to do: https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

There is also an incredible study done by the Pew Research Center about the media habits of the left, right, and middle and it is exhaustive and fascinating.
https://www.journalism.org/2014/10/21/political-polarization-media-habits/
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Twitter just suspended Ray Blanchard, a PhD sex researcher for exactly what I’m not sure but he is trending. Sounds like some of his research findings might conflict with feelings on transsexualism.

Anyway, yeah I did see this report but I have some questions.

For starters, Fox is the only conservative outlet in the mainstream media. Also, sites with a lot of traffic are generally considered by its algorithm to be more relevant for matched keyword queries. The primary news outlets are almost entirely left leaning.

So how do you get around that? I don’t even know if one should.

Its like if you search for “cycle”, the majority of the results will be about bicycles. Not unicycles or tandem bikes. That isn’t necessarily bias, but more, a reflection of the existing landscape tied to “cycles”.


the report claims that was their initial thoughts also, but the results were still leaning left at a higher level than the content generation gap. Also, their algorithms were picking up hard left propaganda sites like HuffPost in their Top 20, while no similar conservative sites were registering in the Top Stories.


That's probably the strongest argument, yeah. That "second tier" of sites that get play are almost always left leaning. The Daily Wire's, New York Post, etc don't get nearly as much play.

The other part that bugs me is that people will dismiss conservative leaning outlets as being right leaning. Which is fair, but they never issue a disclaimer when referencing left leaning media. (And to be fair, those on the right do this too).

Not having a politically neutral news source is highly problematic.


There is a website called AllSides that has a ratings system for identifying bias in the news and they label news outlets as left, lean left, center, lean right, and right. Here is a link to their conclusions:

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

And before anyone freaks out about NPR or the Wall Street Journal being listed as "Center", check out their explanation of what they are trying to do here:
https://www.allsides.com/blog/center-media-bias-rating-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means

They will also provide highlights of coverage from the left, center, and right on every story, so you can see what all sides are saying about a particular issue...it's pretty cool and I like what they are trying to do: https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

There is also an incredible study done by the Pew Research Center about the media habits of the left, right, and middle and it is exhaustive and fascinating.
https://www.journalism.org/2014/10/21/political-polarization-media-habits/


I'm glad there is a group out there trying to do this. I find it interesting that The Hill is listed as center. I always thought they were right-leaning, but maybe that's because they didn't have a liberal bias. Haha.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
is sputniknews a joke?

According to The New York Times Sputnik engages in deliberate disinformation,[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)


some other links...

https://www.cjr.org/tow_center/google-news-algorithm.php

https://247wallst.com/media/2019/05/13/this-is-how-google-shapes-peoples-attention-to-the-news-2/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/12/google-top-stories-dominated-left-leaning-sources-/

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/05/googles-bias-quantified.php

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47085/confirmed-google-gives-left-wing-websites-ashe-schow

some consvervative leaning sites....but also Columbia Journalism Review and 247 Wall St........the bigger question is why did almost all mainstream news sources avoid reporting on the study?


They also never reported on this study out of Yale about how white liberals talk "down" to minorities whereas their conservative counterparts do not change their language at all when talking to people of color.

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/white-liberals-present-themselves-as-less-competent-in-interactions-with-african-americans


I didn't look at all of them, but the Columbia article is very well written and comes to reasonable conclusions:

"As much as our results help better describe Google’s curation of news, what our study decidedly cannot say is why some sources dominate on Google. Perhaps some outlets have cracked the SEO code for Top Stories. Or there may be a number of other factors taken into account by Google’s algorithm that end up prioritizing certain outlets over others. We just don’t know unless Google is more transparent with the editorial design and goals of news curation in the Top Stories box."

The Yale study is also very interesting. Good food for thought...thanks for posting.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I'm glad there is a group out there trying to do this. I find it interesting that The Hill is listed as center. I always thought they were right-leaning, but maybe that's because they didn't have a liberal bias. Haha.


another site that studies media bias and lists them is, https://mediabiasfactcheck.com ....I have no opinion on which site is more or less accurate. It is funny because I have always thought The Hill leaned left.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-hill/

Also, I do think the WSJ leans right as in free market conservatism, but it does not always lean Republican. In recent years, there is a difference between the two, and I clearly think NPR leans left.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/wall-street-journal/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/

Again, I will state that I do not get upset because media leans in one direction or another....my only issue is when a leaning news source denies it's bias. Just like my Dem friends, I roll my eyes whenever Fox News throws out the "Fair and Balanced" line. Fair is subjective, but there is no legitimate way they can claim "balanced".
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject:

Facebook temporarily suspends Candace Owens over post about ‘liberal supremacy’

Quote:
On Thursday, Owens, who is black, posted a statement along with statistics showing the poverty rates among African-Americans, whites and African-Americans who are married. The statement read: “Black America must wake up to the great liberal hoax. White supremacy is not a threat. Liberal supremacy is.”


LINK

This was originally marked as hate speech. Facebook later apologized and restored her account. If she is not a public figure that was able to get media outlets to highlight Facebooks action, I doubt the suspension is lifted.
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject:

when will they suspend trump's account?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Facebook temporarily suspends Candace Owens over post about ‘liberal supremacy’

Quote:
On Thursday, Owens, who is black, posted a statement along with statistics showing the poverty rates among African-Americans, whites and African-Americans who are married. The statement read: “Black America must wake up to the great liberal hoax. White supremacy is not a threat. Liberal supremacy is.”


LINK

This was originally marked as hate speech. Facebook later apologized and restored her account. If she is not a public figure that was able to get media outlets to highlight Facebooks action, I doubt the suspension is lifted.


Wow. I think they also suspended Michelle Malkin for making a comment about Facebook censorship too.

I’m usually not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I do wonder if the speculation from those on the right about 2020 have some merit when I see stuff like this happening.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:48 pm    Post subject:

Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.


Can’t say I disagree. He is basically supporting the killing of a specific person.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.


Can’t say I disagree. He is basically supporting the killing of a specific person.


that is what I mean...if it was an image with Ginsburg or AOC being killed in regards to an issue.....no way they leave it up.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:06 pm    Post subject:

it's all a joke if they don't ban trump.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.


Can’t say I disagree. He is basically supporting the killing of a specific person.


that is what I mean...if it was an image with Ginsburg or AOC being killed in regards to an issue.....no way they leave it up.


You can’t even have an AOC parody account without getting banned.
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:32 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.


Can’t say I disagree. He is basically supporting the killing of a specific person.


that is what I mean...if it was an image with Ginsburg or AOC being killed in regards to an issue.....no way they leave it up.


You can’t even have an AOC parody account without getting banned.


are you two echo chambering each other?
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:09 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.


Can’t say I disagree. He is basically supporting the killing of a specific person.


that is what I mean...if it was an image with Ginsburg or AOC being killed in regards to an issue.....no way they leave it up.


You can’t even have an AOC parody account without getting banned.


are you two echo chambering each other?


step 1.) complain about "echo chambers™"
step 2.) start one of your own
step 3.) ???
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:22 am    Post subject:

^ Do you guys know what an echo chamber is?
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject:

It seems to me that twitter should just let the people police content they find offensive themselves. The rule should be that you, the user, have the power to block anyone and never see what they say on Twitter again. And when someone tweets or responds to someone that has banned them, then the tweet should display a message that says the tweeted to person cannot see that tweet because the user has been blocked.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:09 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
It seems to me that twitter should just let the people police content they find offensive themselves. The rule should be that you, the user, have the power to block anyone and never see what they say on Twitter again. And when someone tweets or responds to someone that has banned them, then the tweet should display a message that says the tweeted to person cannot see that tweet because the user has been blocked.


Well, this already exists but I agree with your point about self-policing. But I still think that doesn't necessarily solve for the real root of the problem: vitriol. It is, IMO, the vitriol which results in ideologically based moderation. And that vitriol is coming from both sides.

I personally have no issues with echo chambers so long as there is a clear and transparent communication that you are about to enter an echo chamber. No one gets upset that they can't go into the Lakers Lounge and talk Celtics basketball because they know, hey, this is a place where communicated is restricted to the domain of the Los Angeles Lakers.

And so I do find myself thinking a lot about ... how do you reduce or eliminate the vitriol we see on places like Twitter?

One idea I had, which I haven't fully flushed out yet, is that we keep a place like Twitter as it is, allow people to self police as you said, but the one difference would be that you cannot comment on someone's tweet unless you are expressly approved by them to do so. In other words, no one is blocked from following by default, but everyone is blocked from commenting by default. I'm sure there are some issues with this, but just an idea I've been toying with in my head.
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
It seems to me that twitter should just let the people police content they find offensive themselves. The rule should be that you, the user, have the power to block anyone and never see what they say on Twitter again. And when someone tweets or responds to someone that has banned them, then the tweet should display a message that says the tweeted to person cannot see that tweet because the user has been blocked.


Well, this already exists but I agree with your point about self-policing. But I still think that doesn't necessarily solve for the real root of the problem: vitriol. It is, IMO, the vitriol which results in ideologically based moderation. And that vitriol is coming from both sides.

I personally have no issues with echo chambers so long as there is a clear and transparent communication that you are about to enter an echo chamber. No one gets upset that they can't go into the Lakers Lounge and talk Celtics basketball because they know, hey, this is a place where communicated is restricted to the domain of the Los Angeles Lakers.

And so I do find myself thinking a lot about ... how do you reduce or eliminate the vitriol we see on places like Twitter?

One idea I had, which I haven't fully flushed out yet, is that we keep a place like Twitter as it is, allow people to self police as you said, but the one difference would be that you cannot comment on someone's tweet unless you are expressly approved by them to do so. In other words, no one is blocked from following by default, but everyone is blocked from commenting by default. I'm sure there are some issues with this, but just an idea I've been toying with in my head.


So basically a bunch of people shouting on the street corner, with limited discussion. That doesn’t work well when it comes to engagement, which is the key metric. They want people on the platform so they can view ads.
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.


Can’t say I disagree. He is basically supporting the killing of a specific person.


that is what I mean...if it was an image with Ginsburg or AOC being killed in regards to an issue.....no way they leave it up.


You can’t even have an AOC parody account without getting banned.


are you two echo chambering each other?


step 1.) complain about "echo chambers™"
step 2.) start one of your own
step 3.) ???


They posted an article that insinuated Twitter was an echo chamber and are discussing further data points that support that conclusion. That’s not an echo chamber it’s a discussion. Feel free to post tweets you feel haven’t been punished that should be. Maybe you can disprove the conclusion.
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim Carrey’s tweet surprisingly or not surprisingly still up?

https://twitter.com/jimcarrey/status/1129796511611490304?s=21


if that went the other way, it would be a lifetime ban.


Can’t say I disagree. He is basically supporting the killing of a specific person.


that is what I mean...if it was an image with Ginsburg or AOC being killed in regards to an issue.....no way they leave it up.


You can’t even have an AOC parody account without getting banned.


are you two echo chambering each other?


step 1.) complain about "echo chambers™"
step 2.) start one of your own
step 3.) ???
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject:

The only thing that makes Twitter different from other social media sites, like this one for example, is you have only 280 characters in which to get your point across. Cracks me up hearing folks talk about it like it is a living thing with one brain.

And as for that 22% of the population, national polling sometimes uses sample sizes made up of way less than 22% of the population. All this means is that the number of Twitter users is not very relevant to anything. There is no one monolithic opinion on Twitter, there are thousands.

Twitter is just a bunch of people just like Facebook, just like Lakerground that does not doesn’t create thought, it is simply a means of conveying thought.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject:

CrossFit just deleted its Facebook and Instagram accounts in protest.

Will be interesting to see if others start to follow suit.

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2019/5/24/18638670/crossfit-facebook-instagram-suspends-delete
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:37 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
what I really despise about twitter and other social media platforms is that they are now used by the media to help drive whatever narrative they want by cherry picking opinions that fit their agenda and make it seem like there is a large % of people thinking the same way


Rule of Thumb for the MSM:

If a controversy started on Twitter, it's probably not a controversy.
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